66-yr old hiker amputates pinned leg

Story here.

-Blast

Heard the story on the news today. I wish there were a few more details. I assume he tried to use his knives to cut or dig his way free of the tree first, and that proved impossible. I assume his situation was such that he was pretty sure no one was looking for him. In the absence of more facts, it's hard to draw a lot of conclusions from the incident.

Of course, each of us is silently asking the question, could I do that if I had to?

Every time this type of story comes out, I think along the lines of "this guy rocks." Mainly because s/he does what he must - a mindset that I feel sometimes gets lost in the big picture.

However, pertinent to this forum:
Was he equipped to survive?

Or "just" strong enough to do whatever he had to?

"... After freeing himself, he cried out for help, and a neighbor passing through this sparsely populated area heard him..."

Ya gotta wonder about the time frame here. He cuts his leg off, then yells for help and someone hears him. Had he waited to cut and just yelled, the outcome might have been different...

A nightmare scenario that I keep thinking about is getting stuck in quicksand, especially if it's cold swamp and hypothermia is likely or it's on a shore and the tide is rising or its drying out and it becomes as hard as concrete. You obviously can't even amputate yourself. All you can do is blowing a whistle, flash the sky with a signal mirror or use a PLB.

Seems something as simple as a whistle on the keychain might have made a difference here, maybe not. But at least it would have greatly increased his chances of being heard.

I would have to agree with you there. Could it be that in a some of the cases of this type, which make the news media, some are really just Apotemnophilia cases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apotemnophilia

That's a good point. Granted I have no idea how bad the conditions or circumstances were that this guy was in but taking off your own leg after only 11 hours seems a bit over-eager to me. I'm not sure if I could actually do it if I had to but I'm pretty sure I would lay there a lot longer than 11 hours before trying unless there was some unknown intervening issue that forced me to sooner. I wonder if this guy saw the movie "Saw" too many times.

I live "near" where the incident happened, the logger (NOT "hiker")had a cellphone with him, but coverage is VERY spotty throughout the area and also I rember hearing that the individual happens to be diabetic (which puts an upper limit on the time one can be away from food, drugs etc.)

So, another logger injured/maimed/killed because the fool was cutting down trees by himself. And a diabetic one, to boot.

Yawn.....

I've lived here in logging country for 13 years now and, aside from junkies and politicians, I don't know anything dumber than a logger. They're the kings of "It won't happen to me".

Too bad, so sad.

Sue

Jeez, you're kidding, right?

I just checked out that Wiki page - and nope, you're not. Wow, what will people think of next?!

One of the symptoms/effects of long term diabetes is decreased circulation, and eventually sensation, to extremities. Not to be callous (perhaps morbid curiosity), but I wonder how much he actually pain he actually felt?

Hey DougM, Is that the Iowa Hill near the American river? We used to go gold panning, and swimming there when I was a kid. We lived in Chicago Park, near Grass Valley.
Anyway, that is very rugged country with many areas where cell phones and ham radios simply can't get out. A diabetic with a crushing injury/blood loss, and no food. He would have died much faster than the rest of us. I'm glad he is ok.

I doubt that he was shouting before he cut his leg off, or tried to use the knife on the tree.

Loggers, dumber than a box of rocks. Last time I had to deal with one, not only had he ignored posted property signs, but he had to cross a road to do it.

Yes, it is, everyone there is praying for him.

Do not condemn what you do not know, life in remote areas requires independence,courage, and stubbornness.

Yes, it could have been quite different, we have cougars,coyotes and rather large bears around here.

Big words give me a headache...

Unfortunately they're not always as scared of humans, Barbera Shonauer was killed and eaten ten miles from where I lived (plus I, myself, have "rehabilitated) a coyote for not being scared of humans (coyotes are NOT protected in the U.S.).

But no brains?

Someone said that the tree of life is self-pruning. I guess this is what he meant?

I hear and see a lot of fingers pointed at coyotes, but I've never had a problem with them, nor the sheep herds around my folks' land. Feral dog on the other hand will attack just for sport.

"Judge not, lest ye be judged"

"Judge not, lest ye be judged"

Any time I'm stupid enough to endanger my life, people can point their fingers and make rude commments all they want. And that means anytime, anywhere, under any conditions. They can make me the DON'T DO THIS, STUPID! poster child. Poster person?

Survival works best if you don't put yourself into a stupid situation to begin with, and then don't keep compounding the problem by making bad decisions.

Just for fun, here are a few bad combinations:

Senior + diabetic + alone + chainsaw + falling trees + remote.

Healthy + allergic to bees + smear self w/honey + no bee kit + no communication.

Surfing + can't swim + night + alone + shark area.

Runner + wilderness area + bear area + music headset.

Fall + White Mts/NH + shorts/t-shirt/sandals + no kit + no fire + no map/info.

Free climbing + Yosemite + no experience + no guide + bad weather forecast.

Desert travel + summer + family + little water + no map/info + no message at ranger station (etc).

Sue

Anytime I'm stupid enough to endanger my I hope someone takes the time to inform me rather than stand back and make rude comments.

I haven't posted here much and haven't really read the stuff on here all that long but I've gotten a lot of useful information from a lot of knowledgeable, usually compassionate people. However, I'm appalled at the responses to this guy's situation. It's not what I've grown used to reading on this forum. I'm not disputing the opinions that have been presented, just surprised at the way they've been posted.

Suppose he wasn't a logger (actually, i didn't see in any of the news articles that he was), and was like one of us? Would you cut him more slack if the news was,
"Equipped.com forum member was out practicing wilderness survival skills when a tree he/she was felling trapped his leg. Using first aid training and materials in his personal survival kit, he managed to free himself by cutting off his leg. Then using his knowledge of signaling for help, he was eventually rescued."

your point is well-taken:

senior - well, aron ralston was 27 when he did his arm.

diabetic - 'brittle' insulin dependent - a potential problem, diet regulated - not as much.

alone - some means of communication would have voided this.

chainsaw - accidents happen, but never to us.

falling trees - see above.

remote - communication would have resolved this.

he stacked the cards against himself, placed his bet, and lost. i would like to say i feel sorry for him.. but...

i hike in areas where there are mountain lions and bears - it's the chance i take - if i get eaten, well that's nature in action.

a plb for us hikers or loggers should become a "must have" just as cell phones have become. might save a lot of people a lot of grief.

bsmith

I suspect that if someone asked him today, he would say that what he did was less than smart. For a variety of reasons...

"...sense of humor can be a bit dark at times..."

That is often the best kind of humor, at least to us old reTIRED cops...

While I understand your point, I'd like to think that we might cut him LESS slack if he had been an ETS member. However, Joe Schmoe might get a little less slack. I'm guessing that most of the posts here are translating "logger" as "lives/works outdoors and should have some common sense about that environment by now."

Also, random thoughts about your comments:
1. Why would you fell a tree in a survival situation?
2. What the heck kind of saw are you packing, and where can I get one??

I wasn't suggesting that there would be a reason to cut down a tree in a survival situation, i was merely recasting the problem in another light to make the point that we don't know very much about this guy, his level of training, or his state of mind at the time.
Besides, i'm sure some of us have had fantasies about buying a little land with a cabin on it in the woods for vacations and/or retirement, and cutting wood for the stove. If i was lucky enough to have this happen, i think i would go ask a 'dumb logger' for some training first.
FWIW, lumberjacking ranks as the riskiest job, more dangerous than coal mining and deep sea fishing if memory serves.

Yup. You either get that skill, or you can't take it. Could be at least partially why my old agency has had nine suicides in the last year...

I'm still trying to figure out how he got pinned under a tree as he cut it. I have felled a few trees in my time, starting with 12" or so pines when I was too small to swing an axe, I cut 'em down with an old rig axe (or half hatchet as some call them). I can see getting smacked in the face with the butt of the tree as it kicks back, but not pinned under. Maybe the thing was down and he was limbing it. It could then roll and get you, if you were silly enough to be on the downhill side...

I think it is easier done than said.

1) He may not have understood the mechanics of it. If so, the tree is as likely to fall on you as away from you.

2) Even if he knew what he was doing, there can be endless variables. The tree might not be straight making it difficult to understand how it will fall, there might be wind, the branches could be intertwined with other branches, the tree could be rotted making it break unpredictably, it could bounce when it hits, etc.

-john

"...it's the small every day stuff and the red tape that add up to the most stress..."

I think you hit the nail on the head. I always said that the stress in law enforcement (and many other jobs I am sure) comes from the people you work for, not the job itself. I pretty much learned to ignore them...