CB Radio? Walkie Talkie? Difference?

I am going on a 3 day trip. Our 'guide' is suggesting to us to purchase CBs. Not walkie talkies. I went to the stores and all I can find it walkie talkies.

He says to purchase a CB. I will also have to buy an antenna for the car he said.

I'm a little confused. Someone please clarify how CBs are better than walkie-talkies

If the walkie talkie is on the CB band, the only differences are range, built in antenna, and power source. CB's allow you to talk to most if not all of the truckers on the highway. A CB walkie talkie is about the same size as the first cell phones. You are looking at about $50 plus antenna for the type he's suggesting. IIRC normal effective range for these is 1/2-5 miles. FCC licensing is issued with the radio at manufacture.

The FRS radios are on an entirely different system. These are the ones that come two to a pack. These are generally smaller (about the size of a modern cell phone). The advertised range for these is 10+ miles. They work on two frequencies/power ratings. Licensing for the lower power channels is the same as the CB. You are supposed to send in a licensing form to the FCC if you will be using the longer ranged channels.

If you are talking car to car to coordinate stops, etc. I'd ask him why you want a built in model.

Unless you plan on trips like this on a regular basis, you might see if he has a spare or make him explain why a CB. FRS radios will be more useful around the neighborhood or amusement park due to their reduced size.

We are suppose to be in a rural area. And we will have about 3 or 4 car groups trying to communicate with each otehr.

IMHO, the variable here is the vehicle mounted antenna. A hand held, whether it's a walkie-talkie, CB or HAM radio is limited by the antenna (and power, but I don't see that as an issue here). By vehicle mounting the antenna, you have a huge ground plane which will add gain to the antenna. I don't know what kind of wattage walkies put out, but comparing a 4W (legal limit) hand held CB with a 4W vehicle mounted CB, you will get better coverage with the vehicle mounted one due to the antenna.

The Motorola Walkie-Talkies I saw have a range of up to 8 miles they say. But he said CB's will have a range up to 4 miles. So I'm little confused

"Range" is not an exact science. Everything depends on line of sight. Theoretically, if you put the two side by side with identical power and identical antennas, on water or flat land, they would have the same range. That's the 8 mile potential the walkies have. The 4 miles he told you for the CB is more real life environment, with hills, buildings and the ever present atmospheric conditions.

How many of you already have CB's? I'd get one of the "emergency" radios if everybody else already has one and this will be a regular event. These are similar to a walkie talkie in that you hold the whole radio in your hand but they have a vehicle type antenna & plug into the cigarette lighter.

If no one else has radios I'd get the FRS units due to size. They run less than $50 for two.

Your guide has dropped the ball.

Who does he want you to talk to?
What frequency are they on?
What are the radios for?

Unless you are going to take the time to have a CB tricked out by some one who knows how to set the antenna (requires a meter) to the CB in use, the range for most CB's are line of visual sight (usually less) at best. Todays CB are garbage and are nothing like what was made in the 1970 & 80's. My family have been truck drivers since the late 60's. The only CB's we use are those in the semi trucks and that are properly set up and have power boosters.

If your traveling in a group together, FRS radios are the way to go. Stick with Motorola brand. From my personal experience they work much better than any other brand. If you get seperated make a quick call on a cell phone to the other parties to get back together.
We use FRS radios to stay in touch all the time when hunting. Even when I bow hunt I take a radio with me and leave one home with my wife turned on in the kitchen. My furthest stand is just hitting 2 miles away from my house per GPS tracking. I have it with me "just in case". I also let her know when I am down and walking out so she knows Im on my way out of the woods.

In a nut shell, the CB off the shelf is no way any better than an FRS radio. I sold my last CB about 3 years ago and dont regret it a bit.

Huck

I would say the only reason to buy a CB is if everyone else already has one. That is what I have seen in the off-road community. Sure for trail communications, FRS would probably work just as well. But everyone else who wheel's their rig already has a CB, so that is what all of the new people buy. Kind of a never ending cycle at this point

CB is a 40 channel two way radio in the citizens band on 27mhz. Walkie talkie is a term that applies to a lot of hand held transceivers which can be on the CB frequency or FRS or GMRS or Nextel uses the terms as well. So the name "walkie talkie" has become overused which leads to confusion. Currently when you search for walkie talkies you find those crappy FRS radios which you don't want because you'll be lucky to be able to reach a person sitting in the same car as you with their limited range. He's probably wanting you to buy an actual CB radio.

With an 8 mile range they are probably GMRS which needs a license to use.

IMO Ham is the way to go, I really like the "little" interference from my ham radio verses CB, the range is much better w/ ham

Mike

"'guide' is suggesting"

He/she probably already has a handheld CB.


Try Radio Shack or on-line. Cobra makes a handheld for around $100.

That cobra handheld is quite nice. it has removable battery packs and the battery packs open up to hold standard AA's. I have a pair of them full of eneloops for mine.

HAM has its place but for over the road traveling CB works well as all the truck drivers are on CB's and they usually are not transmitting at 4W so you can hear traffic conditions miles away. My city has an outerbelt that is average of a 10 mile radius from the center of the city and I'll hear CB talk from all around the outerbelt.

Here - at long last - is an opportunity to share some test results and training we did for the fire company that will directly help you out.

First of all, let me start out with some simple background.

Radio communications can happen with:

Base Equipment - a box plugged into a wall, like any other electronic equipment, usually connected to some large outdoor antenna.

Mobile Equipment - a box mounted in a vehicle and wired into the vehicle's electrical system, and connected to a vehicle-mounted antenna

Portable Equipment - also called "Walkie-Talkie" - a battery powered, hand-held radio communications device.

So, that covered, you have an alphabet soup of radio communications possibilities

CB Radio - citizen's band radio, what the truckers use on the highways. Most commonly used with mobile equipment, occasionally portable or base equipment is used.

FRS - Family radio service - usually portable equipment, occasionally mobile, very, very rarely base stations.

GMRS - General Mobile Radio Service - usually portable equipment, occasionally mobile or base stations.

Note that "Ham" or Amateur radio isn't on this list - that's because Ham radio is not about a particular kind of radio or type of signal, rather it is about the fact that the user is authorized to use certain radio frequencies.

OK, so now we have the equipment defined. Why would you use one kind of equipment over another? Because of the way it transmits and receives a signal.

When you tune into a radio station - say 101.5 FM - what you're doing is selecting a FREQUENCY - the rate of change in an electrical signal.

It's too complicated to get into here in detail, but rate of change in the radio signal - it's Frequency of change - or just Frequency - is measured in units called "Hertz". The more Hertz you have, the more rapidly the signal is changing, and so higher frequencies have more "hertz" - millions of them, in fact. When you tune your FM radio to 101.5 FM - that's 101.500 MEGA (million) hertz.

Now, let's pause for a moment and imagine a stormy summer night. You see a lightning flash far away, and then you hear the rumble of thunder miles and miles away. Now, imagine for a moment that the lightning you just saw set off a car alarm where it struck. You're 10 miles away - you hear the low-pitched thunder just fine, but you won't hear the higher pitched squeal of the car alarm.

In many ways, radio signals act the same way - lower frequencies tend to travel (in radio you call it "propagate") well over longer distances. There are some very interesting and specific ways these long-range signals can be blocked (for example overhead wires, metal buildings) but in open air, it's hard to beat lower frequencies for really long distance point-to-point or broadcast transmissions.

So now, I hope you're getting a hint of why someone might suggest one kind of radio system over another.

Let's start with CB radio.

CB Radio uses radio frequencies in the 27 Megahertz band and transmits using Amplitude Modulation (AM) - just like Shortwave radio stations. In fact, a CB Radio is basically a kind of Shortwave Radio Station, in a manner of speaking. If you've ever noticed, AM radio can travel quite far at night. In Pennsylvania, I routinely hear stations in Canada. You won't get the same range as a massive short-wave base station, but you will occasionally get incredible long-range communications with CB.

FRS and GMRS use radio frequencies in the 400 Megahertz Band and rely on "Frequency Modulation" (or FM) just like your car stereo.

FRS radio does not need a license and is limited to very low output power. GMRS does need a license, but enforcement has basically collapsed. FRS has such low power output that it's useless - no matter what they say on the packaging - over 500 yards under most real-world conditions.

Higher powered GMRS radios - even the so-called "11 Mile" ones rarely did better than a 2 mile radius with any reliability. Over water they work quite a bit better, but hardly do they make 11 miles.

We recently tested, side by side, sets of radios as follows:

CB Radio (Mobile)
FRS Radio
GMRS 5 Watt Portables
46.36 Mhz FM Portables (Motorola) (7 Watt)
154 Mhz Business Band FM Radios (5 Watt)
501 Mhz FM Portables (5 Watt APCO-25 Digital & Conventional Modes)

The testing locations are shown on this map:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&om=1&z=13&ll=40.53833,-75.119877&spn=0.085711,0.136471&msid=117285821921356938461.000001122eb39065215c7&msa=0

The results were fairly consistent - only CB radio was able to reliably reach all of the test points from the station.

FRS Didn't make any of the test points, GMRS made it to test point 1 & 3 - but with poor signal quality.

154 Mhz Business band portables did much better than GMRS, reaching test points 1,2,3,4 with ease.

501Mhz radio made points 1,2,3 in digital mode and 1,2,3 & 4 with poor signal quality in conventional FM mode,

It should be noted that the test was coordinated by cell phone and ham radio, and only ham radio in the 144Mhz Band via a repeater in Frenchtown NJ managed to have a reliable, strong signal throughout the test.

We also attempted test point to test point communications, I don't have the results here, but as I recall, CB and 154 Mhz Business band did good, the 46Mhz radios did fair.

So, to get to the point after all of this - if you know your whole crew is going to be on CB radio, by all means, use a portable CB walkie-talkie. We are going to be installing $100 CB radios in our apparatus, because the $7,000 digital radios in the 501 Mhz band don't work as well.

I'd assume the guide has recommendations specific for your trip where ever it may be. It's possible he knows what he's talking about; it's possible he doesn't. May I suggest asking the guide why he's suggesting CB instead of FRS or GMRS?

Even if you don't understand his reasons, posting them here can get a good critique.

I thank everyone for their input. I feel like I have a college education now.

So...after all being read, yes...it appears for this purpose CB will be best.

So how do I choose the radio? And antenna?

We will mainly I assume be in the car. So, would a portable CB still be recommended? What do they attach to? Cigarette lighter?

I'm half way tempted to recommend getting a hand held, then buying a external microphone, external car antenna antenna, and cigarette lighter adapter for it. I have a CB in my Jeep, and there have been occasions where I really wished I could have taken it out and walked around with it. Additionally you will be able to use it without any permanent modifications to your vehicle, and it will be easier to transfer between vehicles.

However, the hand held unit, will not be as convenient for in car use (more parts and wires to deal with, and the speaker may not be as loud). Additionally this set up will cost more than a standard mobile unit. A real judgment call based on what you think you will use it for, and how much you plan on using it.

A current selling model is the midland 75-822 which is a handheld that you remove the battery pack on the bottom and slide on a 12v/antenna adapter for car use. Then you can get a 6 alkaline battery pack of an 8 nicad pack. I bought a pair of the nicad packs and keep eneloops in them and charge them in an nimh charger instead of the nicad charging curcuitry built in.

Just to complicate matters a bit. These days what may appear to be FRS (Family Radio Service) radios, which don't require a license to operate, may actually be so-called hybrid radios that transmit on the GMRS (General Mobile Radio Service) frequencies. GMRS radios requires a license to operate.

If the radio has 14 channels, then it is a real FRS radio, but if it has 22 channels, then it is a hybrid.

Last I looked FRS radios were becoming very hard to find - Motorola doesn't make them anymore, and unfortunately lots of people are starting to use the GMRS radios illegally.

My guess is GMRS will become unregulated like CB did many years ago, then the radio makers will decide on a new frequency band and come up with a new name and get everyone to buy those instead of the frm.gmrs/cb.
The main problem I have is the frs/gmrs radios have taken over the name walkie talkie so now when you search for a walkie talkie thats all the hits you get. But I remember when walkie talkie was a handheld CB so I still use that term out of habbit when I serach for CB stuff and have a hard time findng anything. Some of the smarter ebay sellers are the worst, they will put a description like "frs radio not gmrs or cb" so they get a hit no matter what you search for.
The funny thing is with CB channels other than 19 are all dead air anymore so there are still 38 channels for use when you drop off 9 and 19 so there really isn't any need to buy FRS and GMRS unless you just like spending money.

I have a Uniden CB radio / hand held unit that is nearly 25 years old now. It looks like a walkie talkie. The extendable antenna unscrews from the top and screws into a magnetic base to put on the roof of your car. The battery pack comes off the bottom and a lighter adapter plugs in for power. It all fits into a small zippered pouch. Convenient to throw under the seat and have available.

The downside is it has an effective range of 2 miles at best. When on the road, any truckers rig will stomp all over your signal. It works great at listening to the truckers and finding out what is causing the trafic up ahead, but forget conversation. I looked into a more powerful non-walkie talkie model but never quite got around to purchasing one.

If your group is planning on traveling interstate, you will have trouble communicating on any CB you will purchase from an electronics store. The truckers have their rigs boosted so much that as soon as they start talking, you will be drowned out and no one will hear you.

Were you trying to talk on the same channel as the truckers? In my Jeep club, we are always talking on our CBs traveling down the interstates to our wheel'n destinations. No doubt the truckers are running boosted signals, but we've never had a problem with it. Maybe your radio is out of tune, or the crystals are wearing out?

That is a good point. It has been years since I last used it. It was primarily me trying to ask questions concerning traffic or "bear sightings" on the heavily used trucker channels. There are a lot of channels that get very little use and would work for group travel.

and even on the trucker channel with them running high power its not uncommon to hear traffic reports from miles away. I have to drive down into the center of my city then back out because its still faster than going around the outerbelt which has an ~10 mile radius and when I'm near the center of the city I can hear truck drivers from all around the outerbelt and outside of it. So after you take out channel 9 and 19 and a couple of the highest are usually reserved for SSB communications you still have 35 to choose from. Then if your running one of the newer smaller CB's most are maxon made and have the same tuning IC and can be modified for 120 channels though I beleive you need a ham license to operate the extra channels since they are outside the unlicensed CB band.
I'm going to get a mobile scanner for my truck then I can monitor channel 19 while leaving the CB on 'my' channel, right now I just use the channel 9/19/normal switch.

I have one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Cobra-75WXST-Weatherband-CB-Radio/dp/B00005N5WW/
The great thing is that it takes up almost no dash space, and is relatively easy to install, and seems to work fine. The key to perforance is the ANTENNA. I would rather have a cheap radio with a great antenna than the other way around.


Of course, I had to get a tiny CB, becuase my car also has one of these taking up space:
http://www.gigaparts.com/parts/gpcpa/original/zic-2200h.jpg
I can talk about sixty miles with this thing using 65 watts of power. Through a repeater, I can cover most of the state of Colorado. Highly recommended.

I looked at those for a minute and everything I read about them said they sucked no matter how good of antenna. I ended up with an old fashioned Cobra 25. It has the Wx channels too and will tone out (loudly) when a Wx alert is issued. Works well for on the farm and camping I can hear the tone when outside the truck even with the windows rolled up.

I agree that they are probably not the best option, but the one saving grace of that cobra is that they take up almost no space in the car.

You said "truck," so you are lucky that you probably have enough space to mount stuff like that. Where I live, Subaru's are popular (especially the Outback and Forrester). Those things do not have ANY place to put any sort of radio where it won't be banging into your legs. Fortunately I have a 93 Lumina, so I have space to mount some stuff. But my 2M rig comes first, and the CB was thrown in as a backup. So, I got the smallest CB that I could find.

At least with amateur radio gear, you have lots and lots of radios with remote-head attaching. This means that most of the radio can ride in the trunk or under a seat, and only a small control panel mounts on the dash. CB radio makers still have to learn this trick.

I was actully thinking of modifying a 10m ham rig to work on 11m just so I could get the remote head capability but that was more trouble that it was worth. Pretty much any newer vehicle doesn't have any place to mount anything, I had to do a little dash modification to make it fit.

FYI, a channel is a communications path between two radios. It may be made up of 2 frequencies ( transmit/receive pair as in GMRS/FRS in the 400Mhz band) or a single frequency ( like CB ).

Correct, who was asking?