Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle

Posted by: falcon5000

Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 03/28/07 04:31 PM

I was wondering if anybody has tried one of these stainless steel 32 oz bottles instead of the nalgine bottles. I was thinking of upgrading the bottle/cup and going with a bottle by itself so I can carry water,boil water,use it as an emergency stove to boil soup or what have you, or even put a rock in it and tye a string to the loop in the lid and make a bear bell out of it. I mean you could get creative and polish the bottom for a signal mirror or start a fire with it ( http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/cokeandchocolatebar/index.html ) I mean theres a lot of potentials. I know the Sig bottles have a coating in them to keep citric acid from messing them up, but as far as I know, these are steral.


Stainless steel Bottle
Posted by: Paul810

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 03/28/07 04:52 PM

I've been waiting for someone to put out a Nalgene style metal bottle that I can boil water in. That seems to be exactly what I'm looking for. It would mean I wouldn't have to carry a metal cup in addition to a Nalgene bottle.

One just has to remember to remove the plastic cap/top or it might melt. smile
Posted by: dougwalkabout

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 03/28/07 05:12 PM

The idea is excellent, although I would miss the versatility of the Nalgene bottle with cup.

I'd want to handle one before I would trust it.

Off the top of my head:
- Is the bottom thick enough to withstand some abuse?
- How well-formed are the threads (pressed or machined)?
- Are the threads compatible with Nalgene lids (for screw-on water filters)?
- Does the top reliably seal? Many cheap bottles look good, but leak.
- Can the top be removed entirely (for cooking)?
- Is there a way to attach some wire for over-the-fire use? The Sigg bottles have a neck that's perfect for this.

If someone buys one, a field review and close-up photos would be appreciated.
Posted by: Susan

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 03/28/07 05:18 PM

Their site doesn't want to overload you with information, does it?

May I assume it's insulated? How wide is the neck? I think I've seen it before, but I have dialup, and I'm not going to wade through all their retailers to get info on it.

Sue
Posted by: falcon5000

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 03/28/07 05:19 PM

Paul810, I just noticed on there FAQ http://www.guyotdesigns.com/site/htm/bottles_faq.html

Are the bottles insulated?
Our double wall bottles will insulate your hot or cold beverage very well.

If this is the case, then a fire would be out of the question and this thing would be useless, hence the search continues....
I may try to e-mail them and see if they have a non insulated version and see if I can get any specs.
Posted by: falcon5000

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 03/28/07 05:22 PM

Susan, I think your right, there insulated frown and dougwalkabout there's got to be someone out there that sells one somewhere you'd think, that is non insulated and non treated like the Sigs
Posted by: Schwert

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 03/28/07 05:37 PM

Why don't you try the Kleen Kanteen?



http://www.kleankanteen.com/2products/products.html

Stainless single wall in 12, 18, 27 or 40oz versions. Not inexpensive.

Posted by: Paul810

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 03/28/07 07:27 PM

They make both double wall and single wall versions. When you look at the website's source code it lists the bottles as:

"Standard 38oz Single Wall"
"Shorty 24oz Single Wall"
"Commuter 24oz Single Wall"
"Backpacker 32oz Single Wall"

Though, Falcon please still shoot them an e-mail to make sure they aren't coated.


Originally Posted By: Schwert
Why don't you try the Kleen Kanteen?


That looks good as well, but I would prefer it to have a standard Nalgene style top.
Posted by: MDinana

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 03/28/07 10:12 PM

why not just use MSR fuel bottles? When you buy them, they're clean. Yeah, small neck is a problem, but as long as you label it clearly, it should (I would think) be able to be used over flames.
Just make sure the bottle cools before you handle it.
Posted by: dougwalkabout

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 03/29/07 02:47 AM

Well, well, well! I stopped in at my favourite mountain shop today and, as luck would have it, these bottles had just been put on the shelves. So, I can give you my impressions FWIW.

The picture at the top of the thread is the "Backpacker" model. 32 ounce capacity. Single wall construction.

Price: more than twice that of a Nalgene Lexan bottle. (Ouch.)

To answer my own questions:

- Is the bottom thick enough to withstand some abuse?

Yes, absolutely. This thing is stoutly built, and would serve a long time. In fact, it's a lot heavier than I would like. The label says 12.3 ounces -- empty! I bet my Lexan Nalgene and canteen cup together are lighter.

- How well-formed are the threads (pressed or machined)?

Threads are machined, deep, and heavy duty. They would probably last forever.

- Are the threads compatible with Nalgene lids (for screw-on water filters)?

Yes, according to the label, they are compatible with screw-on water filters. I didn't actually try it out with Nalgene lids (no way to tell if it would seal).

- Does the top reliably seal? Many cheap bottles look good, but leak.

I didn't test it with water, but the top is very heavy-duty in look and feel, and inspires confidence. This is not a cheap knock-off item in any way.

- Can the top be removed entirely (for cooking)?

Yes. I didn't try, but it's held on with heavy cord. You may have to reattach it with your own paracord. I wasn't about to break it in the store.

- Is there a way to attach some wire for over-the-fire use? The Sigg bottles have a neck that's perfect for this.

There's a good deep lip below the threads that would accommodate several wraps of heavy wire. No problem there.

Would I trust one? Yes, I think so.

I would also want to hire a Sherpa to carry the thing for me.

Cheers,
Doug
Posted by: falcon5000

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 03/29/07 03:31 PM

Well I shot them an e-mail and this is what they said,I'm ordering one as we speak, I need a 32 oz for the adventure (Steripen) for traveling too, that puts boiling water as my backup:

Update for Case #793 - "32 oz Bottles"

Mark -

Our Backpacker stainless steel bottle is 32oz, non-insulated, and with no coating on the inside. However, if you boil liquids in it, the bottle is too hot to handle, but I guess you could concoct a way to hold it or harness it without being burned and pour the boiling liquid in to a vessel that you can drink out of. We are developing an all stainless steel vacuum sealed bottle that will handle boiling liquids and not burn the one holding it.

- Cara Guyot

Message History
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 01:26 pm EDT (GMT-04:00)
Subject: 32 oz Bottles

I was wondering if you sell a 32oz non insulated,no coatings on the inside,steril stainless steel bottle that can be used to boil water in an emergency. There are several people that may be interested in one if you have them.

Guyot Designs LLC.
support@guyotdesigns.com


Posted by: Paul810

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 03/29/07 10:48 PM

Sounds good! The too hot to handle situation doesn't really bother me, as I carry Kevlar lined leather gloves that can handle high-temps just fine or I could always just rig something else up. It's just nice knowing I can replace my daily carry Nalgene bottle with something I can purify water in (without having to carry a bunch of other stuff, without having to worry about expiration dates, and without having to worry about how many uses that method gives me).
Posted by: Susan

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 03/30/07 02:26 AM

"We are developing an all stainless steel vacuum sealed bottle that will handle boiling liquids and not burn the one holding it."

I don't think he understood how you wanted to use it, despite the clarity of your question.

I can see a SS vacuum bottle holding boiling liquids. Science isn't my strong point, but if a container (even SS) is made of two walls with a vacuum between, how is it going to boil water? Isn't the whole point of a vacuum NOT to transfer heat (or cold)?

Or is someone here going to make me feel like a dummy? (Go ahead, I've been there before....)

Sue
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 03/30/07 02:30 AM

Being pretty weak in science myself, but very familiar with boiling hot coffee in a SS vacuum thermos, I think that you are right on. Only time I ever felt the outside of the thermos get hot was when the liner had failed, therby filling the middle space with rapidly cooling coffee. Time for a new thermos...
Posted by: Paul810

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 03/30/07 03:27 AM

All it would need for it to work is have no void between the two layers at the bottom. Basically, if the bottom is steel touching steel (while the sides are separated by a vacuum) than it will still work.
Posted by: ironraven

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 03/30/07 01:02 PM

No, it doesn't work so well. The only way it would work is thermal conduction through that tiny little seam, pretty much worthless, or by using boiling stones.

If I had to take a guess, it was a PR flunky who's got a script.
Posted by: falcon5000

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 03/30/07 04:25 PM

Well I'll find out when it arrives, it should be non insulated but well see and I'll let you know when it comes in.

Our Backpacker stainless steel bottle is 32oz, non-insulated, and with no coating on the inside. However, if you boil liquids in it, the bottle is too hot to handle, but I guess you could concoct a way to hold it or harness it without being burned and pour the boiling liquid in to a vessel that you can drink out of. We are developing an all stainless steel vacuum sealed bottle that will handle boiling liquids and not burn the one holding it.

So I think they are in development of a vacuum container but do not have one yet.
Posted by: dougwalkabout

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 03/30/07 08:08 PM

I've been contemplating an experiment with an old stainless steel thermos, to turn it into a stove/pot/water carrier, all in one.

Something along the lines of the Kelly Kettle:
http://www.leevalley.com/gifts/page.aspx?c=2&p=43901&cat=4,104,53221&ap=2

Except, I would like to keep the inner container of the thermos intact.

Any ideas?
Posted by: Old_Scout

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 03/31/07 05:16 PM

I regularly carry a Wiggy's SS water bottle. Have boiled water in it - works well - hot as H*ll!! Use gloves, big socks or mitts. Before I've just dropped it into a double wool sock "rig" and all is well! This thing is built like a tank - except for the little dongle welded to the top of the lid for the chain - I replaced with a SS bolt - no prob. I also replaced the chain with more substantial SS "clock" chain. It uses a humongous o-ring for the lid seal - don't boil with that turned down or you have a bomb! It fits into standard Nalgene spaces and cups integrate to the bottom diameter. Heavy as lead but thoroughly dependable. Would recommend.

BTW, I cannot conceive of an insulated bottle that you would boil in - a scientific oxymoron!
Posted by: dougwalkabout

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 03/31/07 09:28 PM

... an insulated bottle that you could boil in ...

Yeah, it does sound funny at first glance.

However, it wouldn't be insulated when I got through with it. I'd be removing the bottom of the outer shell, so I could hang it over a small-stick fire.

Think of it as a vertical pot with a shroud to concentrate the heat and increase efficiency.

Once it cooled off, I could put the stopper back in to transport the now-drinkable water.

If I really wanted to, I could stuff some foam between the inner and outer walls, and voila, it's insulated (somewhat).

Wacky idea, I know. But I see a lot of people with steel thermoses, and I wonder how I could convert them into something useful in a tight situation.
Posted by: Old_Scout

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 03/31/07 09:50 PM

OK - now I see what you mean. But I think you've got some engineering and testing ahead!

Here's the Wiggy's rig

Wiggy's SS Bottle

Looks like they've improved the dongle on the lid since I bought mine.
Posted by: dougwalkabout

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 04/01/07 04:19 AM

The Wiggy's rig looks good (as does the water bottle that started this thread).

I'm really concerned about the weight of these items, though.

It's not a problem with car camping, short-haul trips or BOBs.

But with self-propelled trips, either day hikes or multi-day backpacks, where you are carrying your gear on your back, you consistently leave too-heavy items at home. There's an equation of weight-vs.-utility that you work through. And IMHO, both of these items would stay at home (for this kind of trip anyway).

However, the future is not bleak. I see more and more stainless steel items that are quite thin and light, yet reasonably tough. These promise to be a boon for unrepentant walkers such as myself.




Posted by: ironraven

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 04/01/07 05:21 AM

Oh, wow, I think I see where you are going. Like a the cheapie travel mugs that have the removable bottom so they can be cleaned, but made out of stainless and lacking the handle. Maybe use something like styrofoam or fiberglass insulation in a plastic sheath as your removable inner insulation but that wouldn't be critical.

Have a screw on bottom and a screw on top. Heck, it might be possible to make the bottom wide and deep enough that it could be used as a small bowl or large cup. You'd want to be able to be compatible with the standard Nalgene cap so you can use all the various filters out there. And if it's shiny, it would work great with the Steripen- UV bouncing off the sides rather than going out the bottle.

It wouldn't be a field conversion, but I think you might have something there.
Posted by: yeti

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 04/01/07 05:09 PM

I think I may stick with my nalgenes and space saver cups. I feel the wide-mouth 32 oz/1l nalgene bottles are about as small a mouth as I'd like when it comes to bottles in regular use. I use mine for far more than just for water and can't imagine being able to really clean smaller-mouthed bottles well with any certainty. Bottles are notoriously hard to clean anyway.

I EDC drinks in these bottles with an Outdoor Research (OR) Water Bottle ParkaŽ 1 Liter that zips shut over them. This insulation works so well I carry these bottles year-round. I have stainless steel space saver cups for all my bottles in various packouts. While I would prefer the spacesaver cups run about 2/3 the height of the bottles (adding about 1 extra inch) instead of the 1/2 reach they have, I'm still happier with these setups as they lend towards maximum flexibility.

BTW, the space saver cups also easily fit within the OR bottle parkas with the bottle...similar to the old military canteens and the steel cup.
Posted by: falcon5000

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 04/13/07 04:35 PM

http://www.guyotdesigns.com/stainlessbottles?sc=11&category=-111

Ok, I got it in the mail last night, the company had been snowed out and sent me a few extra items for the wait smile. Here's what I have so far:
It's a thick 32 oz stainless steel bottle and appears very durable with a lifetime warranty. It does boil water and fits a normal 32 oz lid including water filters and steripen. It takes awhile to bring up to a boil because I think of the thickness of the steel and convection of sitting in free air.It has a small groove on the inside of the neck that corresponds to the flange and doesn't appear to pose a problem for future cracks or anything, I think its from a weld joint and is normal, if anything it would act as an expansion joint.I don't know how it would do in the cold yet but I think if you get it right in a good fire you will be ok. It's not as bulky as my nalgine cup set up and I tried weighing it but my scale won't go below a half of pound. All in all the pictures below are blurry because I'm in a rush to goto work and it's not an official review but I like it, it serves what I need it to do, Use it with a steripen and a Katadyn combi water filter if needed, boil water in and emergency and can cook or polish the bottom for a mirror if needed. I found after you boil the water,you can dip the outside of the bottle in water and it cools down almost instantly. So the bad side of this is it does transfer heat around quickly but you can manipulate it to your advantage by putting up a wind block from green wood or what have you. I looked at aluminum and it transfers heat even faster and not as durable. I'll stick with the stainless steel anyday. (on the pictures you may have to right click the mouse and say view image)

Update: it is air jacked (see comment below) and I would not recommend it.

Bottle after I took the lanyard off
Lanyard


Has a manufacturing groove around the neck that is at the same location as the base flange.
On the stove

Boiling on stove

On the torch

Boiling on the torch

With the Katadyn water filter



With the steripen

[img]http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/falcon5000_/IMG_1685.jpg[/img]
Posted by: ironraven

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 04/14/07 03:34 AM

Looked a little like an artillery shell at first- kinda concerned me before I started reading *grin*

Looks good. I suppose the only way to know for sure is to stress test it.
Posted by: falcon5000

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 04/14/07 02:29 PM

My apologies, I dropped the ball. When I did some of this testing it was before work and I couldn't tell if it was a thick canister of jacketed. Like a dummy and in a hurry I was wondering why it took so long to heat up. Well I took it into work to examine more closely and it has what appears to be an air jacket around it. So I'm skeptic that in a fire at lower temperatures if it would get hot enough to boil water, especially in winter. So I would not recommend it for use in this case. If you just want it for a water bottle then it would do at that but that's about it for it. So I guess the search goes on.
Posted by: dougwalkabout

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 04/14/07 04:01 PM

Really??!! Sure fooled me. If there's a air jacket, it must be very thin -- you really can't tell by looking at it in the store. An second layer of stainless would explain the weight, though.
Posted by: falcon5000

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 04/14/07 04:23 PM

I e-mailed back the company asking them why on there website it said single jacket also, so well see what happens. It definitely has a second wall.
Posted by: Frozen

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 04/16/07 03:02 PM

I have one of these Guyotdesigns bottles sitting on my desk, and I can't believe this thing is double-walled. Run your finger and thumb like calipers around the opening and the shoulder. When I fill it with cold running water, the sensation is instant cooling on my hand. It just can't be double-walled.

Posted by: falcon5000

Re: Stainless Steel 32oz water bottle - 04/18/07 04:19 PM

I did unless they had sent me a double walled. They haven't sent me back an e-mail yet. The one they sent me was definably double walled.