Practice scenario: Leaving Las Vegas

Ok, here's your March thinking test

You are in vegas and some serious event happens.* You have a car and $250 to get home. Flights out are iffy. To complicate matters you are in charge of a minor child and have no credit cards.

You are trying to get to:

1. easy distance Los Angeles
2. Harder New Orleans
3. Expert Chicago

You stop at a big box discount store on the way out of town -- what do you buy?

TRO


(* you pick)

Tank up the car if you didn't have the sense to do it when you arrived. If you can find it (it's probably already too late), buy several gallons of water and some granola bars and get out. Don't stop to chat, don't flash your money, just get out.

Las Vegas is a sewer of humanity, with probably half of its two million population being criminal in one respect or another. The number of thieves, hustlers and lowlifes that live there is phenomenal, plus the ones just visiting which are part of the average 350,000 visitors on any given day (not counting the heat of summer).

This city is far more crime-ridden than the media likes to say. They don't want to scare off all the business. If you want some real entertainment, take your police scanner with you, and program it to the local channels, of which there are quite a few.

Vegas is also extraordinarily dependent on piped-in water. If that source happens to be cut off, it's going to get really ugly, really fast. The closest small cities of any size are Barstow, CA and St. George, UT, about 125 miles awat. Neither of them would be able to handle the influx of the number of rats leaving that sinking ship.

And for anyone who wants to point out that LV has the most churches per capita (which may no longer hold true), it's because the gamblers want Divine Assistance at the tables and slots.

Sue, who's glad she's out of that toilet

Susan....you sounded like you have a lot of animosity toward
my fine city.
Tell me more.

I hate being one of the first to respond to these things because the first few folks always get torn apart but here goes. I'm going to ignore the LA option.

First some math to consider:
Las Vegas to Chicago is 1750 miles (according to Mapquest)
Las Vegas to New Orleans is 1740 miles (same source)

Assuming an average gas price of $2.50/gallon (locally for me it's $2.35 now)
- If the car gets 30 MPG you will spend $145.83 in gas
- If the car gets 25 MPG you will spend $175.00 in gas
- If the car gets 20 MPG you will spend $218.75 in gas
- If the car gets anything less than 18 MPG you do not have enough money for gas to Chicago or New Orleans much less food, water or anything else.
AND this is all assuming gas actually does average $2.50 which is probably not realistic because if there is an “event” gas prices will go up quickly AKA Katrina.

Possible alternatives to car travel? – None I can see or would be willing to do.
With only $250 and no credit card flights out are beyond the budget even if they are flying. And according to my quick check of Greyhound.com a bus would cost $242 ($151 for the adult and $91 for the minor child) and Amtrak quotes a train to Chicago at $409. Therefore both the bus and train are also beyond the budget.

Therefore I will assume the car gets 20 MPG so I am spending:
$218.75 Gas
$ 4.98 24 Pack of 16.9oz Bottled Water
$ 2.98 Box of 10 Breakfast Cereal Bars
$ 2.98 Box of Peanut Butter
$ 2.50 Crystal Light Hydration Drink Packets (to keep electrolytes up)
$ 2.99 Box of 24 Stay Awake caffeine pills

Total Spent: $235.18 leaving me $14.82 in cash.

The above ASSUMES I have my EDC, PSK, and FAK with me…if not for some
unknown reason I did not have ANY of these three things then I would:
Eliminate the Breakfast Cereal Bars and buy:
$5.00 pre-paid phone card
$5.00 2 Emergency Space blankets
$3.00 Bottle of Advil

Ok now I’m out there on the limb, let the criticism begin…

I can't tell you what I'd do - what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas.

I think Susan is being a little harsh on Vegas. Half the people are criminals?

I have to side with Gator on this one...great answers.

US road map ($3)
Nevada, Arizona state road maps ($6) (smaller roads, to get to I-40)
case of water ($8)
ramen ($3) (eat it raw, toss the salt- it swells up to make you feel full)
duct tape ($2) (I really don't like being around little kids)

Head for Oklahoma City and decide then between NO and Chi-Town.

(Or am I misreading the map?)

Sue, I grew up in the Vegas area during the 70's-80's. Though I have no desire to move back there, I certainly don't hate the place the way you do. Did you get mugged a lot or something?


My solution to the excercise would be to grab some supplies and head west to the Mt. Charleston area. It's an unlikely direction for other refugees to take, and staying up there for a week or two makes more sense, depending on the weather and on the type of "event". If it is an NBC event, the prevailing weather and winds blow toward the east, so being at higher altitude and west of town would be best. From there you can take back roads that can lead into the Sierras, south down to SoCal or Arizona, or north to Reno.

This solution wasn't on the multiple choice, so no points to me, but I still think it could be the best solution.

I'm lazy. I sell the car, and get a nice berth on Amtrac...

Leaving Las Vegas?

Easy. Ditch the kid. Start drinking heavily and die while making love to Elisabeth Shue...


That's assuming I'm Nicholas Cage....


M

$250 cash and no credit cards and need to go cross country?

Fill up car with gas, get some water and powerbars.

Drive to a safer city.

Call bank at home and have money wired to me.

Go to bank and cash a check (keep a blank one in my wallet)

Go on net, find internet friend from here or AR15.com who lives on my route home that has not had any disruptions, paypay them money so they can give me the cash (and make a nice little transaction fee for their trouble )

That is a great idea! An ETS type forum is a great way to network with like minded and prepared folks to prepare for the unexpected. If you networked well and "qualified" your contacts you could wind up with a good contact in each geographical region or major city.

This same idea of a team or networked group is the basic premise for the alpharubicon.com members. They are a very close knit group and limit their membership to only those who actively participate and help the group. Unfortunately they are currently not accepting any more members but you can still get some really great information from the articles on their site. I highly recommend checking them out.

With no offense intended, I'd have to say Susan is overstating things a bit in regards to crime in Las Vegas. To be fair, we do have a fairly high violent crime rate, above the national average, and it is true that the national media doesn't make a whole lot of noise about crime in Vegas. But I can guarantee you that local news is more than happy to report criminal activities, and does.

Now, there are definitely areas of town that you do NOT want to go to, especially if you're a tourist...but most of these areas are adjacent to the Strip or in much older areas of town.

Honestly, I don't see much difference between Las Vegas and any other major metropolis, crime-wise, and that's speaking as someone who grew up and has lived here for over 20 years.

As for the original post...I'd buy gas, food and water, and drive myself to L.A. I've got family there and a place to stay. There's no way in hell I'd go to New Orleans. They've got plenty of problems of their own at the moment. I know next to nothing about Chicago, or what I'd do there, so I'll stick with a familiar place that has relatives to take me and my fictional child in.

Hmm,

If some major event happens, you can figure that public transport is pretty much outta the question. As stated, they will be iffy at best. Since this includes freighting services as well, you can also forget about "shipping yourself" somewhere. Fuel prices are going to be insane, so $250 might only get you one tank of gas, if that. Striking out afoot or on a bicycle really is not an option (uh, the middle of the desert, not practical).

With $250 and a car, you could try and parlay to get something different, but anything that would seriously help you out isn't likely. You could get a gun and try stealing your way to Chicago I suppose.

If it were me, I'd try and head south. You got some serious desert in all directions, but I think I would push for Pheonix, Flagstaff or at least Kingman if I had to go anywhere. I would not try to go to LA, and I think the others are just out of the question.

I'm simply gonna hitch a ride with one of you guys. We split the costs, double our money, and make it to chicago no problem

OK, I'm in Vegas. I find the nearest casino, put the whole $250 down on lucky number 7, pick up my cool $8,750, tip the Croupier a $500 chip (hey, it's only money!), and fly out 1st class to Chicago...piece of cake.

I like your plan, soldier- I'll drop you off and keep going north. :P

Works for me! Can we stop off at Ben & Jerry's first though?

Wow, I have been to their site so many times! They have a lot of knowledge.
I did know they were an organizaton that was not accepting members but I was not very clear on who they were and what they were about other than they were pro gun and into survival; I usually just find them through "Goggling" something.

I would really like to be a part of a group / network that supported being ready while ofering members the ability to link up in an emergency as well as good times. I guess there are a lot of groups like this out there in some fashion.
Heck even if you were part of a hobby type network like homebrewing or reloading or even quilting on-line it would be easy to start to network of some great "contacts".
I guess in the mean time I will have to "camp at the gate" at Alpharubicon.com

B

You could get an RV and join the Good Sam Club, they have a member helping member thing. I had forgotten all about that feature until this discussion started...

I think we need a handshake or "high-sign".

I guess if you were an ELK, Shriner, Mason, 4-H'er, Boy Scout or fraternity memeber / alumni etc. you could develope a great network anywhere in the US.

Yet another reason for an ETS conference, to develop and learn the secret handshake or tattoo or whatever.

Although Chris isn't getting near my backside with a hot branding iron!

Load the Car with Gas, buy the Kid a hambuger and a coke, Start out of town by going North on interstate 15 about 8 or 10 miles out of town you will see State hiway 93 on your left. It goes due north, Stay on that untill you come to a town called "Panaca". There is enought stuff there to keep you alive untill thing get back to normal, what ever Normal is in "Lost Wages".

If it's a relatively local problem, you don't have to get home, you just have to get out. I carry a small address book with me, just in case I'm lucky enough to be within reach of a friend.

It's nothing personal, guys, I just hate Las Vegas.

And if you think any of the local news really tells how it is, get a police scanner and listen. I've cross-checked what I heard on the scanner against what was in the news the next few days. Lots and lots of robberies; lots of bank robberies (ever had to go to three banks before you could find one open for business?); dead bodies found in alleys, dead bodies found by kids setting up their new tent prior to going camping with the scouts, dead bodies found by hunters. Dead bodies that were once homeless people who were living in holes in the ground covered by tarps and plywood, who were burned to death when someone would toss gasoline into the hole followed immediately by a torch. Lots of shootings, hardly a night passed in my neighborhood without hearing gunfire. Ever driven a limo for a funeral and had the whole funeral party ambushed? Ever parked your limo in the outskirts of a casino parking lot while waiting to be sent somewhere and suddenly felt cold steel in that hollow below your ear?

And you know the real insult? The only thing I've ever won in my life was.... you guessed it: a 3-day trip to Hell with a show and airfare included.

Sue

Susan

"And you know the real insult? The only thing I've ever won in my life was.... you guessed it: a 3-day trip to Hell with a show and airfare included."


Take a Navy Seal on a training camp out with you and watch the fun.

Iron Raven, you could save the $9 in road maps and going to either Los Angeles or Chicago you can jump on I-40 west or east respectively west will take you all the way to LA and east will get you to Oklahoma City then take Route 66 the rest of the way to Chicago.

My shopping list:

- 4x Water Containers - at least 20 gallons capacity in total (don't buy water, just get water)
- 8x Gas Container
Gas
10 boxes granola bars or bags of nuts.

That's it.

What if the interstate or other major routes are bogged down with the other people wise enough to evac during this serious calamity? I would definitely say the maps are worth it, but hopefully if you were taking a car trip to LV you would already have the nessecary maps and not need to spend your emergency cash on them. I can get you anywhere if my map is good enough. I always have maps of my local area, city maps, state maps, a state atlas (60 pages of topos), and regional maps of the entire east coast. And though I like those cool new vehicle GPS, nothing beats paper maps.

For those of you that are members, AAA is awesome about giving you maps of whatever state/region/city you need, at no extra cost other than membership.

Everything Sue said is 100% accurate. It's a sewer of a city, a pure "take" economy, nothing of value or worth is made there.

It must have something (probably the tax break for businesses), 'cuz every time I read about the fastest growing city in the country, it is always Vegas. Personally, other than driving the strip at night and walking Fremont Street, it has nothing for me. I worked too hard for my money to gamble it away, and if I do get the urge, there are Indian casinos all over the country.

As far as this scenario goes, and my plan to sell the car and get a train ride, if that plan fails, I always have a couple of hundred dollar bills, guarded by a moth with hash marks on his sleeve, folded tight and buried in my wallet. Always. They are part of my EDC stuff...

"There was only one road back to L.A., US interstate 15. Just a flat out high speed burn through Baker, Barstow and Berdoo. Then on to the Hollywood Freeway straight into frantic oblivion, safety, obscurity. Just another freak...in the freak kingdom."
--Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas

Now for Chicago there are a couple of options. Driving I'd head north to I-80 and take that through Utah, Wyoming, Nebraska, Iowa and Illinois. If I can't find someone I know in Utah I know I can find people in Wyoming and Nebraska. That's my country. Two fifty should get me gas to Utah or Wyoming even at 20mpg. Assuming it's my car, we don't need to pick up food or water or other supplies. If it's a rental, I'd get a couple of $0.50 gallon jugs of drinking water, say eight gallons if I can get my hands on it. For food, I'd get a jar of peanut butter, jelly and a loaf of bread. Food that's familiar for the kid, cheap and full of energy (though not enought to send the kid bouncing off the walls). Finally, I'd get a cheap fleece blanket. $4 water, $8 food, $5 blanket. Say up around $20 with tax. $250 won't get me the whole way, but it should get me to my own territory and help. From there, I can get the rest of the way.

The other way is to fly out of Nellis Air Fore base. That's the first option, if I can get out on an air force flight, that'd be the easiest option. It might be a slightly round about trip, but its the easiest and safest option.

OBG, what it has is the reputation as "the fastest growing city in the country". That's what draws the businesses.

But you wouldn't believe the flow-through of people (as residents)... it's simply incredible. They move there because they hear it's growing, so there must be something good for them. Then they find out that all the businesses are basically minimum wage. Sure, there are 25-yr-old guys pulling down $80,000/year as parking valets, but you don't get those jobs unless you're in really tight with upper management (their kids are the usual).

When I went to work for the limo co., there were really only two requirements: you had to appear to be breathing, and you had to have a clean DMV printout. And if you were just paroled after serving 8 years in prison, you had a clean DMV printout!

So, the people with the high hopes let the bills slide and take their pittance into the casinos, figuring they'll win, pay the bills and have some extra. But it doesn't happen that way. Soon, they leave.

There is a kind of management joke in Vegas: Do you know the difference between gambling and gaming? Gambling is what the customer does, and it's set up so that he mostly loses. Gaming is what the casinos do, and there's NO gamble about it. They just rake it in.

Oh, and I'm not sure that Amtrak still stops there. And you don't get a berth without buying a ticket 4-6 wks ahead of need.

Sue

Re Coastie09's comments:

For those of you that are members, AAA is awesome about giving you maps of whatever state/region/city you need, at no extra cost other than membership.

Definitely agree with you on AAA membership for driving maps. I get my money's worth on that feature alone. I also agree that one would need them to find the alternate routes. I remember when Houston was was being evacuated just before Hurricane Rita struck. I live in Dallas and couldn't believe the traffic problems here and we are 3-4 hours away. Also, the gas stations in Dallas began running out of gas because the evacuees had empty gas tanks when they arrived and needed to fill up before they leave (not that I'm angry about this, I'm just stating a realistic event).

I think that were not evaluating the LV situation properly. For example, what is the time of the year. In January, I doubt that I will be heading northeast towards Chicago.

Oh, come on.. Chicago in January builds character. Besides, after driving through a Chicago winter, you could teach your fellow Southerners how to drive. Lessons such as:

Don't lock up the breaks while driving, on ice.

Don't get within 2o feet of the vehicle in front of while speeding in your [censored]' Camaro, while on ice.

Don't out race you headlights, while on ice.


Etc.

M

Who just loves the multi-car pile-ups down South when the weather turns the least bit frosty.

M,


Wow, that's a phrase I haven't heard in a long time.

-Blast

Datin' myself, huh?

M

Dating BOTH of us.
To fill in others:




They don't write songs like that any more...

-Blast

Beelzebubba, baby.....

Aw, hell, Now I gotta go home and pull out the Clash, Kennedy's, Costello, Ramones, Pistols, Surfer's....

M

I still get up in the wee hours, sneak downstairs, but on the headphones, crank the Clash, and slam my head against the wall 'til I feel human again.

"My ultimate vocation in life is to be an irritant." Elvis Costello

"I still get up in the wee hours, sneak downstairs, but on the headphones, crank the Clash, and slam my head against the wall 'til I feel human again."

Doesn't everybody?

To un-hijack this thread, I have to agree with those praising AAA. Their free map service is a God-send when you are heading somewhere new. The discounts at shops, amusement parks and hotels don't hurt, either.

A word of warning, the free towing service of their base plan is only something like 4-5 miles. Sign up for the next level membership to get 50-mile free tows.

The other nice thing about AAA is the benefits are tied to the person, not to the car. I've used it to tow friend's cars to repair shops when they couldn't afford it.

-Blast

Yep, used to be if you were lucky you could get a job at the Kher McGee (sp) plant just outside of town. Otherwise a young fella worked the conventions like a roadie, or mowed a lot of lawns, or dug ditches for the new cable service going in all over, at least that was Vegas for me in the 80's baby.

I won a free week at the Luxor right after it opened back in 93-94. That was a hoot. I don't gamble, but that place and the Excaliber and the old new MGM (when the big orthagonal lion's head was still outside the main entrance) were all a series of amusement parks it seemed. You could go on rides and stuff all day, then go catch a show at night. In between you could go get stuffed at the buffet.

I do miss the old 99 cent breakfasts while heading into town from Henderson, and the $6.00 prime rib buffet, and the 99 cent shrimp cocktails, and the free drinks if you were dropping quarters or better in the slots (okay, maybe not so free after all). At least you could eat well if you had some pocket change.

In Vegas you can still pack heat, so I guess that does improve it some over other places, like NYC, or DC.

"...Just a flat out high speed burn through Baker, Barstow and Berdoo..."

Obviously you have never tried to drive that route on a Sunday afternoon. Slow and slower all the way, at least to Barstow. Probably a lot worse if everyone is trying to get outta Dodge...

"...I'm not sure that Amtrak still stops there. And you don't get a berth without buying a ticket 4-6 wks ahead of need..."

Rats, another brilliant plan ruined...

I'm wrong, Amtrak still stops there. But the last time I tried to get a berth in the sleeping car, she just laughed.

I went from Eugene, OR to LA, CA, which is approx. 900 miles and it took 24 hrs. That's an average speed of 37.5 mph. My 22-yr-old car can go faster than that backwards.

Sue

"...That's an average speed of 37.5 mph..."

I guess things haven't changed all that much. Last time I was on a train, I went from Chicago to an AF base about 60 miles south. Took almost six hours, making me late getting back. Sgts don't like it when you are late getting back...

Misanthrope wrote:

Oh, come on.. Chicago in January builds character. Besides, after driving through a Chicago winter, you could teach your fellow Southerners how to drive. Lessons such as:

Goodness, someone needs their caffine fix.

Actually, I grew up in the snowbelt near Cleveland, Ohio (22 years), spent 3 years in Bowling Green, Ohio (a/k/a Blowing Greeen, a testament to the actic winds that would race down from Canada) and 5 1/2 years in the snowbelt known as South Bend, IN. I'm not concerned about Chicago, I'm concerned about the trek through the Rockies and Great Plains should an "Alberta Clipper" slide down and provide a January blizzard. The interstates may be closed and the back roads useless if that happens. In that case, I would have to alter the plans a bit, perhaps choose to go south through Arizona and New Mexico before jogging back up towards Chi-town. Perhaps even stop in DFW to pick up some BBQ and tex-mex to keep me warm for the remainder of the road trip!

Besides, with anti-lock brakes one has to counter their years of training and remember to punch down the brakes and hold rather than pumping the brakes (yes, I too learned the Old School method in the 70's and 80's.

Ooops, forgot the time. Have to stop, drink my caffinated beverage of choice and put my "London Calling" LP on the Hi-Fi, but only after removing "The Good, The Bad and The E-Street Shuffle"

Yeah well, its been over thirty years since that book was written. Though it doesn't seem like Vegas has changed much. Just gotten bigger.

It has indeed gotten bigger. In not all that many years ago, coming from the Baker side, you would go thru the last cut, see a sign saying Vegas was something like 18 miles away, and you could barely see a wide spot in the road off in the distance. Go thru that cut today, the sign is still the same, but the houses and businesses are right there!!! It used to seem like a pretty good drive to the airport, or waaayyyy out to Henderson, now the airport is surrounded by the town, and it is solid buildings to Henderson and beyond. Go to earthseach.com, or one of the other satellite views, and take a look at the place, it is amazing...

Not so fast!

Read this: http://www.gmj.com/pdf/GunRegistration.pdf

and this:

Clark County (where Las Vegas is) has some special laws:

12.04.200 Registration of firearms capable of being concealed. It is unlawful for any person to own or have in his possession, within the unincorporated area of Clark County, a gun, pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed, unless the same has first been registered with the sheriff or with a police department of any of the incorporated cities of Clark County.

12.04.210 Unlawful transfer of firearms capable of being concealed. It is unlawful for any person to sell, give away or permanently pass possession to another person of any pistol, revolver or other firearm capable of being concealed, unless the transferor thereof first registers, or causes the weapon to be registered to the transferee and new owner thereof, either with the sheriff, or with a police department of one of the incorporated cities of Clark

First, shame on me for travelling without a credit card, double shame for travelling with a child without sufficient cash or cards. Hopefully I remembered to bring my cell phone - even the most cash-strapped traveller these days seems to have a cell phone.

Big box store (modulo size of crowds, their mood, and the severity of the event): you're in a desert, obvious buy is water and/or containers, based on availability and whether uncontaminated water could be expected from the tap nearby. 6-9 gallons if you can get it, or equivalent containers if you cannot (consider empty 5 gallon buckets from hardware or housewares since they may not be flying off the shelves as fast as the 24 packs of Dasani and diet Coke). In a pinch, a couple garbage bags one inside the other and a sturdy scavenged cardboard box will hold lots of water in your car. 2 days inexpensive, non-perishable food for the road, if you can get it. No phone card - public pay phones are scarce in every direction out of town. If no cell phone, consider the cheapest TracPhone and 100 minutes. You probably won't be able to charge and activate it until you get out of Dodge, however. A knapsack to carry water if you find yourself on foot might be extravagant, a poly-cotton sheet to fold into slings or some cord to hoist water carriers a bit cheaper.

If the big box store has been beseiged by long lines and/or angry mobs, leave as unobtrusively as possible. Your ultimate destination is irrelevant, your first vector is towards safety, resources, communication and assistance. I'd scavenge or grovel the trash bags/boxes at an eatery, fill with water, then hit the road and head for St George Utah. On less than a tank of gas you'll get there, or be able to stop at one of a few oases where you might gas up and regroup. And under normal circumstances the route is well patrolled by Nevada and Utah highway patrol, well-travelled, if you had to stop you wouldn't be alone.

I'm with some of the other responders - unless you live in a total, resourceless vacuum or your family and friends are caught in their own event, you reach out to them from St George or on the road from Vegas. Let them know your route and ETA, that you'll need money wired there, accomodations at the Holiday Inn if they can get it, and a Delta feeder flight out of St George if possible. They can watch CNN and the Internet to assess your possible progress, call you back on your TracPhone when in range, and add minutes to it. They might as well start the process of adding you to their own credit card and ATM card so it can be mailed to them and sent to you. You may not be home for a while.

Lots of folks will head to LA, but lots are going to be headed in the same direction as you. Depending on the event there may be water/gas trucks positioned, and refugee shelters set up along the way at the AFBs - but don't count on it. Regardless you'll have plenty of company in St George, but there will be resources and there should be a supply line going in there sometime after you arrive. fwiw the people I've met in St George are some of the friendliest people on the planet, you can expect general compassion for any person protecting a minor child.

Side-thought: if my employer had *any* presence in Vegas, I'd try to call there or visit if reasonable and safe before leaving town and see if they could offer shelter or assistance. My employer does happen to have a Vegas sales office, unless the event closes it, odds are good they or a call to the main office would get me on a short list of people they want to help get to safety.

If you were really running on $250, driving straight through to any of these final destinations may not be feasible (20mpg doesn't account for hours of air conditioned idle time in stalled traffic, gas shortages and price escalations en route, weather or desert-inspired car troubles etc). Your ability to maneuver a rental Saturn sedan on anything unpaved is questionable and not advised anyway in desert conditions. Don't panic.

No one on these boards wants to admit it, but in this scenario you are a relatively unequipped and child-burdened refugee when you leave Las Vegas, and you should be at least partly prepared to live like one. Yes, if you actually beat the crowds you might gear up on the cheap at the big box and Rambo yourself along neglected paths to distant cities, you might even get moving out of town before cars begin to block the highway and slow you down. I contend your main job is to equip yourself and your young friend with food and water and get the kid to safety - wherever your best sense of the situation tells you that is. It might be Red Cross, it might be National Guard bussing you to a base refugee center. If you successfully self-evacuate, you may be in St George for a while and reach your destination only after the event response kicks in. Then you can be FEMA evacuated to home. Pride goeth before the fall. Its the kid that matters. I would only feel defeated by relying on the authorities if I had headed down to Vegas as well-equipped as I am closer to home.

Cheers,
Lono

Geez, when I was there, just about everyone I hung with (including females) had something they could tote. I never tried to buy a gun there, but if this is the case, then LV is just another place to cross off my list now.

It must not be much of a concern, considering how often I came and went in casinos with one on me, they must've known, considering their security protocols, and just didn't see it as an issue.

Either way, from now on, LV will only be a place to stop while passing through to somewhere else. I wiped my shoes at their doorstep when I left there long ago (biblical significance).

Just a thought: if you need to grab water, one place that might not be high on the list of other people could be a dollar store. Most of them sell water, $1/gallon (often in that better, clear plastic), or multipacks of the smaller bottles for $1. Also cheap juices.

You can't walk out of Vegas with a kid, even in the three-day spring or fall (both don't happen in the same calendar year). Don't try it. Don't even consider it.

Benjammin, come to WA. Permits for CC are easy to get unless you're a felon, then it's probably a little harder. Half the people in the state carry weapons with a CC; the other half just carry weapons.

Sue

Interesting scenario. I live in Salt Lake City and can see no reason that I'd want to go from Vegas to LA, NO, or Chicago. I have driven north on Highway 93 to I-80 and that is one lonely highway (which you can drive without traversing the AFB).

I cannot see a scenario that would cause large scale evacuation of Las Vegas (e.g. a hurricane). If the SHTF and you had to leave, you'd likely be on the highway with the 350,00 tourists (many of which flew in and would be trying to fly out, hence not be on the highway) and not the 2 million who live there. I'd just jump in the car and head to Mesquite or St. George, (or Kingman or Barstow or Tonopah, depending on where you are heading)and supply there (assuming I had a full tank of gas and a few drinks in the car). I know people in St. George so could hole up for awhile

I was at a conference in Vegas in December (while the World Championship Rodeo was going on) and the surface streets are gridlock. I suppose I was in violation of the law because I packed heat but had no problems. I have to agree that the city is a sewer.

Once you get out of the city, there is a lot of the middle-of-nowhere so I think the traffic would disperse relatively quickly and travel would get easier the further you traveled. Of course getting out of town is the trick.

My co-worker went down there yesterday for the Mountain West Conference Basketball Tournament (he's a BYU grad). His son (also a BYU grad) lives in Henderson. We kind of discussed this earlier this week because there is a NASCAR race this weekend in Vegas. We decided that the best thing for him to do is to leave I-15 in Glendale and drive along the shore of Lake Meade to get to Henderson. Yes, it is longer but more scenic and avoids all the congestion in North Las Vegas from the race track. His plan was to go down that way yesterday and come back that way on Sunday. I'll try to let you know how that worked out for him after I talk to him next week.

Oh, I have my Washington CWP now, from when I was living in Kennewick before I shipped off to Baghdad. It is still good, but I doubt I will get back there soon enough to renew it. Yep, got my first Washington state CWP when I was 21. Had one ever since. Never a problem getting one. I always put down as my reason for wanting to have one "for personal safety" and was never challenged or rejected for it.

Now that I am a travelling man, I must resort to other means. You're right, though. Those otherwise law-abiding citizens across the country who conclude that packing illegally is better than the alternative are increasing in number.

"I cannot see a scenario that would cause large scale evacuation of Las Vegas (e.g. a hurricane)."

Water coming into Vegas isn't usually a problem, if you don't try to cross the flooded roads.

Water NOT coming into Vegas would be the first disaster that came to my mind. It's a city of two million residents plus tourists. If the water supply was cut off or contaminated, you would have a ghost town. If a bit of drinking water was available, the price would be astronomical.

But I doubt that even a military operation could bring enough water in to keep that many people alive.

sue

True, but I'd think there would be a little lead time on that. Besides, I cannot see 2 million people immediately packing up and heading out of town cause the water quit running. Most would sit tight figuring it had to start working again pretty soon.

I'd just head east to Lake Meade, build a fire and boil away for enough to get me out of there. Plus while I'm boiling water, I'd let the masses disperse.

My co-worker traveled along the shore of Lake Meade coming and going last week (going down on Thursday and coming back Sunday - as I stated in an earlier post, he went to the Mountain West Conference Basketball Tournament and there was a NASCAR race there at the same time). He enjoyed a scenic drive and figured it took him an extra hour each direction. A guy on the radio who covered the B-ball Tourney complained that it took him 3 to 4 extra hours due to traveling I-15 with the NASCAR traffic trying to get back to Salt Lake on Sunday.

Okay... a third would sit tight while waiting for their government to save them; a third would head out of town; a third would head for Lake Mead, drink the water without treating it and be spewing diarrhea all over the place, thus further contaminating the water.

Cynical Sue

A lot of "work hard and play by the rules" answers, but what about the guy who is not willing to jeopardize his 6 year old family member or himself, in an major emergency, and decides to stick a gun or a knife up your nose?

Am I in or out of the car?

Cars give you superior speed, are reasonable agile, and let's face it, 1500 pounds at 44fps beats 230 grains at 850fps. That is part of why I actually prefeer an automatic to a standard- just apply gas, no need to shift or clutch if something is happening NOW.

Not a bad point. I don't carry a gun and none of the knives I regulary carry would be effective weapons, but a five dollar 6" Walmart chefs knife can sort that out. Use tape and cardboard to make a sheath and tape it down next to the seat of your car. Or tape the sheath to your leg inside your pants and rip out the lining of your pocket so you just have to reach into your pocket and pull out the knife. Instant access to an effective short term weapon. Alternatively a club can be improvised and hidden up the sleave of your jacket (if its cool enough to wear one). Weapons are easy to get a hold of if you think the situation will turn that direction.

As always keep your eyes out and avoid situations if you can. Keep enough distance between you and the car in front at a stop to drive around them. Windows rolled up or only down a couple inches (go ahead stick your hand in there, I've always wondered if my windows could take a hand off). Walking, be aware of your surroundings, keep an eye on where people are, where they're looking and what their hands are doing.