Best SUV for survival

I am shopping for an SUV and wanted everyone's opinion on what would be an optimal SUV make and model for use during a survival situation (I.E. using it during a storm or evacuation, driving it off road, etc). I do not need anything monstrous in size, but it must have adequate room for my survival kits (which my husband insists are too big and bulky) and 50lb dog.

Right now I am focusing on the Ford Escape Hybrid, Toyota RAV4 and Honda CR-V. They are all small to mid-size, but get great gas mileage and are fairly safe and reliable.

I would appreciate hearing your opinions/comments/concerns.
Many thanks,
Jess

Ah, something I know a bit about.

First, I owned a Mazda Tribute, same as the normal Ford Escape. It was a good truck (pretty quick with the V6), but it had its short comings. First, interior storage was limited and those batteries for the hybrid take up a good bit of storage. It also wasn't that great off-road. With no low range and open differentials I got it stuck a few times. Also, having an IRS/IFS it will have problems with certain obstacles and the chance of something breaking is high. The Rav-4 and Honda CR-V would have similar problems. They simply aren't made for any real off-road use.

At bare minimum you want an SUV or truck with a low-range transfer case, locking or limited slip differentials (rear only is what you usually find nowadays), a solid rear axel, skid plates, and off-road tires if you plan on taking the road less followed.

Here are some suggestions as far as new vehicles go:

Hummer H3
GMC Envoy/ Chevrolet Trailblazer
Jeep Wrangler (Extended Wheelbase version is nice)
Jeep Liberty
Nissan Xterra

Personally I would check out the diesel version of the Jeep Liberty. I believe they stopped making them in diesel form for 2007 (or they would have had to redesign the engine to meet new emissions standards), but they are still out there as leftovers. A friend of mine just picked one up and I was real impressed with it. It gets over 20mpg no matter how you drive it (and you can run it on bio-diesel), it's small but has plenty of interior room, it had a solid rear, good low range transfer case, tows 5,000lbs, all-terrain tires, ect. If you get it with the off-road package it adds a locking rear, skid plates, tow hooks, heavy duty cooling, and a few other features. It really is worth it to at least give it a look.

As to myself, I drive a 2007 GMC Envoy V8 every day. I get 22mpg highway, tow 6,000lbs, have a locking rear, plenty of power from the V8 (from an engine that any gearhead knows how to work on), and have plenty of interior room and storage. I also have a 1995 diesel Suburban 2500 and two 1970's K5 Blazers that I use for plowing and off-roading.

Good choice of cars.
Probably Honda CRV is the best reliable and comfortable. It also comes in all wheel drive.

Good choice of cars.
Probably Honda CRV is the best of the bunch. It is reliable and comfortable. It also comes in all wheel drive.

As Paul pointed out, these really aren't intended to go very far off the pavement. Most of them are built on car-weight frames, not truck weight. Particularly the hybrid Escape- it's a lot heavier than the normal escape. I like hybrids, because when the highway turns into a parking lot, you aren't burning gas, but with the exception of a couple of prototype armoured vehicles, I wouldn't take any of them cross country.

I suppose the first piece would be to ask where in NJ you are, and where are you planning on bugging towards, so that we can get a feel for the terrain. If by off road you mean hopping into the median, that's one thing. If you mean taking the four-wheeler trails through the Barrens, thats another. And if your bugging destination is say, up in the Pensylvanian mountains, then that might be another.

The other thing I'll say is, unless you know how to drive off road, you can get stuck real fast, real easy. And knowing on a four-wheeler or something like a Wrangler or a full sized truck is going to be different with the little guys you've mentioned.

If what you are looking for is something that will handle just about any road made by man, or go across open and fairly hang up free land (like fields), look at the Outback. They are practically the state car of Vermont becuase they can get traction in almost anything that they don't get hung up in, and they have a lower center of gravity than things like the RAV, so they are more stable.

Most SUVs are not really designed for serious offroad use. They are built on car chaissis, and do not have good ground clearance. I have been a Jeep owner for years, and would recommend a Rubicon Unlimited package, as this is about the best you'll get (except for storage, but, if you take out the rear seat, you'll be fine) for an offroad vehicle, off the lot. Alternatively, you can go for an older model range rover, or even bronco. New, you really dont have alot of choices. I would stay away from the Hummers, simply because they are expensive, and if you break one, you'd be hard pressed to find someone to fix it. Jeep has so many aftermarket manufacurers and clubs, you'd be hard pressed to drive 20 miles without running into someone who has owned one in their lifetime (at least, its that way around here). The one major drawback is gas mileage; mine gets about 18 MPG.

EDIT: I thought 128 was a little too generous

Second the Jeep Liberty in diesel if you can get it. One of my friends has one. We went rock hounding last fall in the mountains around here. Good solid vehicle that will traverse most any terrain you want to get into. Plus from what my friend said the gas mileage is decent on road or off road. I wouldn't recommend the Ford line of SUV's. Much as I like my Explorer, it isn't really an off road vehicle, nor is it a good highway vehicle. The main plus for me is that I can pack my whole dorm room into the back and not have to worry about weather like I would in a pick-up.

Having grown up in hurricane central (more commonly known as Florida) I can tell you from personal experience that a key factor for an evacuation vehicle is going to be ground clearance. With debris blowing all over the roads, down tree limbs, etc., ground clearance is a very important aspect to take into consideration.

An equally important aspect of an evacuation/survival vehicle is how you outfit it, particularly when it comes to the tires. Very few production vehicles come with TRUE off-road capable tires. I'm amazed at how many people buy these huge 4x4s and then put street tires on them for driving comfort and reduced road noise. I can't tell you how many people I know who have full size, v8 powered, 4 wheel drive trucks and SUVs who THINK they are prepared and ready to drive off road in an emergency when in fact they will be lucky to get 50 feet off of a paved roadway before they get stuck in the wet grass or mud during a storm.

And my last $.02 worth would be a note on making sure it has storage room for extra gas cans (either on top or inside) because gas is worth its weight in gold during a true evacuation.

I think we got off topic here. What was asked was a BoB SUV not a rock crawler. I personally would go for the Jeep Rubicon (I only buy Jeeps) but for average I need to get out of town and maybe take some dirt roads then just about anything will do. Set of chains, come-a-long, and a tow strap will help immensely, so does ground clearance and an agressive tread. In the end look for something that gets good gas milage, doesn't stand out, carries all you want it to, and you can afford.

That is one thing that annoys me about Ford. They keep making more and more car-based SUVS and with every generation of the Explorer they remove some of its capability off-road in favor of making it into a big car with a truck frame. You can't even get a limited slip rear axel anymore and you can't lock it into 2Hi. I had three explorers and they were great vehicles, but unless they turn them back into trucks (or put the Cobra engine in them :))I'm not buying another one.

I am however looking at the new Expedition EL (if they put the diesel in it that they are talking about), since it seems GM isn't making a replacement for my diesel Suburban and I need an SUV that can tow 9,000lbs and still get over 20mpg.

Unfortunatly they are making SUV's designed for what the majority of people want, a tall or big car. Its difficult to find a decent one anyomre.
Stay away from AWD, its too unpredictable in anything but a light rain, the system that transfers power from one end to the other gets confused when you start going off the pavement.
Your best bet is to stick with a basic truck/frame based vehicle with a real transfer case with low range. Somthing like a quad cab small/midsized/full size truck for example. You still get close to the same gas milage as one of the toy SUV's but get far more capability.

Not necessarily, certain vehicles can only take so much abuse. A car or car based SUV, even with an AWD system (which, just because it says it's AWD doesn't actually mean you are using all four wheels), simply wont have the ground clearance or ability to tackle some off-road or even on-road situations.

Case in point, I hit a pot-hole at 25mph in my old Mazda and it was enough to wack the rear end out of alignment and bend the lower wishbone (which later caused my rear end to fail sending me sideways into a tree). With more ground clearance and a solid axel it wouldn't have caused any damage.

My cousin in her AWD Audi had to make a sharp turn to avoid hitting a deer and ended up running over a block curb. This ripped out the oil pan and filter, seizing her engine. Again, with some more ground clearance or good skid-pans it could have been avoided.

Neither of those are major off-road events, both (or a similar variation) could be easily encountered in a bug out situation. Like some have mentioned, having to drive over fallen trees, having to go over a curb to get around a stalled car, ect. I'd rather have a vehicle that I know can handle certain situations, than one I will have to pray it will. I'm not talking about driving around a rock crawling rig with beadlock tires, but there are certain factory features that would be desirable.

For example, most people don’t know that, without limited-slip or locking differentials, generally your AWD vehicle is only running around in 2WD (one front wheels and one back wheel gets power), but they call it AWD because any one of the four wheels could be the one getting power. In normal driving this is fine as it allows for better handling and generally it works fine to get traction in rain/snow. However, four wheels with power is better than only two wheels with power when there is a possibility of getting stuck.

Also, without a low range center differential it can be impossible to get up certain hills. Trying to do so could destroy your engine and transmission, or just get you stuck on the side of a hill.

It’s kind of a safety and comfort thing. A butter knife and a DR RSK are both knives, but the RSK is designed to handle situations the butter knife is not. You might be able to get away with using the butter knife for a long time, but all it takes is one situation where is doesn’t work to cause major problems. Deciding to take the butter knife instead of the RSK is a risk.

It’s always up to the individual to decide how much risk they want to take, choosing your tools wisely is part of that decision (which is why a lot of us on here are such gear-freaks).

I'll second the Jeep liberty. Or if you're looking for a used vehicle, I would consider the Jeep Cherokee or an older Grand Cherokee. The great thing about Jeeps are they're quite capable on and off road stock. They have a fair amount of ground clearance, but as mentioned before, they are probably the easiest vehicle to find lift kits and parts for. To solve the poor gas mileage during a bug out, simply buy a roof rack and toss a jerry can on it

"... The one major drawback is gas mileage; mine gets about 128 MPG."

WOW! My little car gets 30, and I thought that was fair... and you think 128 is low? Um... what do you consider good?

Sue

I think he lost a decimal point. Try multiplying that by 10^-1? Maybe ^-2?

As far as I am concerned, there is only one true Survival SUV, and it is the next vehicle I intend to purchase. It is an International CXT, or as an alternative the International MXT Limited. If these won't do the job, then you need a tank or a D-9. Anything less is just a car.

Of course, I wouldn't mind having one of those rigs from "Damnation Alley" either. There would have to be some upgrades though.

Sweet, and it's only costs a $100,000...Wait a minute, give me $70,000 to invest into my Jeep and we'll see which is more capable

Hehe, I've got a 1960's Cat D6 bulldozer that I always thought would make the perfect bug out vehicle. It will go anywhere (including over cars and trucks), pull darn near anything, and the old non-turbo I6 diesel will run on just about any fluid you put in the tank. Plus it's such a simple design you can fix it with stuff you find laying in the road. Only problem is it's bright yellow and it wont go faster than about 20mph.

Just for discussion's sake, here are pics of my Xterra and a buddy's Escalade loaded out for post-katrina Mississippi. You won't have all the radio gear, but this'll make you think about that it'll look like loaded. The back seat is down, so the entire back deck is used.
Leaving for Mississippi

Steve's truck on-site. Note the raised platform with bottled water underneath it.
Steve's truck

I'm strongly considering one of the Silverado Hybrids for my next truck. It'll be several years yet, so we can see how fuel efficiency develops.

Yeah, I changed my post, 18, not 128. And, as far as lift kits go: I put in a little budget boost, 2", in 1.5 hrs. I am not a mechanic, by any means, but it was easy as pie. With 31" tires on it, I am confident I can clear curbs and road debris with ease. I still have AT tires on there, which arent the best, but they do. A MUST for a Jeep, or any off road vehicle, is a self-recovery kit. A hi-lift jack, a couple of towstraps, and some clevises, will get you unstuck fairly easily. I have a gas can & water can kicking around somewhere that, eventually, I will find a spot on my jeep for. Right now, I am saving up for a good bumper

I looked at the silverado hybrid. Remember its just a mild hybrid, it doesn't drive under electric power. But they were only available in a couple states. My regular silverado gets 20mpg anyway so it seems like it didn't add much to it for the extra cost. Fuel mileage was something I looked at and most SUV's, even the small ones barely get over 20 with some getting into the mid 20's and then the minivan/cars called SUV's maybe hitting 30 if they are pretty much useless so 20mpg from a v8 4x4 that can seat 6 and has 7' of crumple zone behind it is pretty decent.
I think I've seen that avalanche on some of the HAM forums with all its antennae on top. Do you have problems with those Blitz gas cans leaking when your filling, mine does.

All those gas cans that low on the rear really scare me. Get rear-ended, even at low speed, and whoof...

That's a regular Avalanche I believe, not the Escalade version?

Anyway, what does all that radio equipment do? I've never seen so many antennas (antennae?) strapped to a vehicle.

As to the Silverado Hybrid, I was checking them out when they first came out. They also have a Yukon Hybrid coming out soon (which I would be somewhat interested in if the new Yukon wasn't so ugly ). I'm still not "won over" on this Hybrid technology yet, but I am keeping a pretty open mind. I wish they would come out with a diesel Hybrid version already. Imagine 30mpg in a 1500 size truck and still being able to tow 8,000+lbs.

If you want to really go off pavement, how about a unimog?

The sweetest rig is not available in the US

Toyota Hilux, 5 spd manual, A/C with the diesel engine, extended cab with a cap over the bed.

For here, Jeep Liberty with the diesel or a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited.

For small size SUV like the ones you listed, I actually prefer the Subaru Forrestor. But it too is built on a car chasis like others have mentioned. If you do not have to go the small SUV route, I would laso prefer a truck based chasis and would go with a Toyota Tacoma extra cab with a camper shell. It is rugged, powerful enough, low maintenance and has storage.

I am considering another vehicle too as our BMW X3 will barely hold our stuff for family camping. But my wife wanted a smaller vehicle...another story.

The H3 was a consideration but it is under powered.
A Land Rover is too expensive.
A Forrestor (which we had before and is great) or a CR-V (which we almost bought) is small. Also, the all wheel drive on the CR-V is primarily a front wheel drive and not a true all wheel drive.

My friend's Toyota extra cab truck with a camper shell and V8 engine has great power, cavernous storage space and better gas mileage (about 20 mpg) with regular unleaded than my car and my wife's X3 has using premium. So I was thinking Toyota Tacoma in a V6 with a camper shell would probably serve us well. Toyota is known by all of my mechanic friends for reliability and minimal servicing issues.

No matter what vehicle you decide on, make sure it will fit the people you want to travel with you and what supplies you want to take with you, with some additional room. You might need to invest in a supply trailer to hold your supplies, extra fuel, or to use as a shelter, so make sure your vehicle can haul a loaded trailer. Are you thinking of going off-road? Ground clearance, tire size and treads, gearing, engine power, etc., all come into effect.

Ha, you mention the Hi Lux over here in Austalia at the ORV parks, and the Aussies will laugh.

I think most anything will do. I remember back many years ago, we were in our '85 Blazer, in 4WD, picking our way carefully up a trail full of large rocks. Going about 3 mph. Then out of nowhere came this huge Buick sedan just flying along with a large woman driver (many hundred lbs I'd guess, the land-yacht was listing over towards the drivers side). It was just bouncing and jumping and sparking as it bashed across the rocks at full speed. It was quite a sight to behold, but this Buick put our 4x4 Blazer to shame. Where she came from and where she was going will forever remain a mystery.

I wish I was rich enough to choose/buy a vehicle based on how well it would do in the rare bug-out scenerio. We just bought a new truck that seems like it'd be OK for the task. But we've only had it 4 days so I can't speak from experience. Just your non-exotic Ford F150 4x4 Supercab with skid plate and heavy duty towing package. Of all our cars, this is the one I'd take if I were going somewhere that I thought might be dicey to navigate.

Really?

I know some missionaries in Central America and they love theirs.

All of the SUVs you listed have got to be feeling pretty small once you start cramming two adults, their stuff, a 50 lb. dog, his/her stuff, and associated survival kits, food, water, etc.

Ditto here on avoiding anything AWD -- that just brings premature wear and tear. I would stick with a 2WD vehicle or one with real 4WD.

I get 20mpg highway and spent a lot less on my 4WD truck than I could have spent on some fancy SUV with GPS navigation, wood trim, heated leather seats, et al.

In the end it's all about what works for you and lots of test drives!

I would take a look at the Jeep Grand Cherokee with the Quadradrive AWD system. It is a good compromise between a very sturdy and capable off road vehicle, and has quite nimble on-road handling.

The AWD system is transparent in normal use, and can really apply serious power to whatever wheels need it, all four of them. It can also be switched into a low mode where the front and rears are locked together and the gear ratio is significantly reduced (low range).

As another poster has mentioned, AWD and 4WD systems are not created equal. Not even close. The variance in performance applies equally to AWD and 4WD systems. In general, AWD and 4WD can mean as little as being able to drive one front and one rear. So it can mean the ability to drive 2, 3 or 4 wheels. Then, once you have some capability to drive the different combinations of wheels, you have to factor in how well it can do it. Many systems can only supply a limited amount of torque to the alternate wheel(s). And then you have different methods of operation and qualities of implementations. AWD systems are not created equal. 4WD systems are not created equal.

The JGC is probably smaller than you think it is, and on trips with just my wife and our two (large) dogs, it is packed to the gills. I consider it "right-sized". :-)

Personally, I find both the current model (WK) and the previous model (WJ) good options (although when buying a used WJ you need to be careful that the QD system is in good repair). Both are available with the Quadradrive system, although QD in the WK is electric where on the WJ was hydraulic. Each has their trade offs, but both are good. The WJ has solid front and rear axles, the WK has IFS with a solid rear.

The only real downside given your comments is that of gas mileage. Personally, I think people place more emphasis on this than is warranted in the big picture.

I'd suggest getting a package with tow hooks, skid plates and the towing IV package. People balk at these things, but they only cost the same as many people pay for a sunroof or upgraded stereo package.

The tow hooks make it easy to pull someone out of a ditch, or have someone pull you out of a ditch. Consider that there are no good places to pull if you don't have them. Many car have been damaged pulling on parts that were not intended to be pulled on, and you might even end up with a broke off part and still be stuck (and possibly broken down).

The towing IV package can be used as a tow point (to pull or be pulled), or as a place to mount an accessory or bike rack. The after market towing kits are not nearly as seamless as just getting it in the first place.

It is very easy to get stuck. Slide in a ditch, try to cross something that you get hung up on, etc. Skid plates are cheap insurance. They won't stop you from getting stuck, but they significantly decrease the chance that something will get broken in the process of getting stuck, or getting pulled out/off. What you want is to get unstuck and drive away, not get unstuck and then still be stranded because something broke.

Seriously think about SUVs that don't have these options. If I can't hook a tow strap and get pulled out (and it sounds like the tie downs used for shipping are not up to the task), what does that say about the construction and intended use? Ditto skid plates?

wkjeeps.com: All about the WK
wjjeeps.com: All about the WJ
Jeepwarehouse.com: Killer prices on Jeeps

As suggested, the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited would also work well and is an even better off road vehicle. The unlimited is a longer Wrangler with four doors and the Rubicon package adds a very serious off road 4x4 drive system, fairly large and fairly aggressive tires. The downside is that it is less on road friendly.

Also as suggested, you also want decent tires. Tires are critical to the performance of your vehicle, regardless of which one you have. And rarely do manufactures put decent tires on their vehicles.

Personally, I like the Bridgestone Revo AT which is also a great compromise between on road performance, and is reasonable for mild off road use. I'd get them in the largest size offered stock on the vehicle you get. Make sure you have the computer adjusted to whatever tire size you select.

Bridgestone Revo AT at tirerack.com

Many tire stores will allow you to trade in new tires against replacements. When we purchased our SUV, I picked out the tires I wanted, ordered them from a tire place, then when we drove the vehicle off the lot, we went directly to the tire place where they put on the new tires and discounted the cost of the new OEM tires.

When buying your SUV, you probably want smaller rims and larger tires. For example, a 17" rim is better than an 18" rim. Both these rims can have tires with the same diameter, but you have more rubber on the 17" rim. In addition to more rubber, off road oriented tires (AT or MT) are not offered for larger rims, so the smaller rims have more off road tires available to choose from.

Again, as suggested, consider having good recovery equipment: hand winch (review), tow strap, tire chains*, etc. Nothing like being able to pull yourself out.



As others have stated, there is a fair difference between car based SUVs and more serious off road vehicles. The Wrangler clearly falls in the latter category, the vehicles you mention in the former (as does the Liberty). The Grand Cherokee straddles the two.

The various Subaru are probably decent car based SUVs, but keep in mind the limitations of the car SUV. Decent for snow and reasonable dirt roads, but don't take it off the road.

While I don't know it for a fact, but I suspect the hybrids are not going to have enough umph to get over debris in any reliable way.

I also suspect you are going to find the ones you list overly small when you try to put some gear, your husband, and the dog in it.

As you may have guessed, we have a JGC. It's a '99 WJ and has all the mechanical options and none of the luxury options. We are still very happy with it. If I were to get another vehicle, it would be another JGC w/QD, or a Wrangler w/Rubicon.

The way I feel about our JGC is like people must have felt about a trusty horse. You feel know matter what happens (roll it over? roll it back), it will get you home.


[ a few more pics ]

-john


* It should be noted that the mfg. recommends against chains on the WJ (dunno about WK). I think the problem is the rear shocks are very close to the tire and could be damaged with the chains. Lots of clearance in the front. I still have chains and will use them if needed, although very carefully. I hope to change rims to ones with different backspacing to address this in the future.

Ouch! I can get a used M113 for less than that. Sure, the gun mounts have been pulled, but turn half the back into fuel tanks, and you can go for a few days.

Basically, the hybrid Silverado was designed for contractors, becuase it can do double duty as a generator. There is an inverter and outlets wired into the electical system someplace, don't remember where.

Nifty idea, but very specialized.

Yep, I think you are right. My mistake!

N5AC is a VHF / UHF / Microwave contestor. On contest days, he loads up the truck, drives out to remote high spots and makes contacts with fixed stations. These contacts rack up contest points. He just happened to have the truck rigged up when Katrina went through.

Here's a couple of pics of the inside of his truck...

http://www.n5oom.org/2005_katrina_response/photos/wa2ivd/base_camp/DSCF3857.JPG
http://www.n5oom.org/2005_katrina_response/photos/n5oom/base_camp/DSC03691.JPG

That's basically my opinion of the hybrid. The Xterra is too small for events like this, and a regular pickup sucks too much gas. I'm hoping the hybrid reduces that even a little bit.

Yep, I understand. I'm thinking about the Silverado Hybrid for the extra mpg and for the AC generator capability. I'm hoping that it's tuned for a bit more mpg in 2-3 years when I'll really be looking.

I didn't have trouble with those gas cans, but over time intend to replace them with metal welded ones.

I should have said any SUV or crossover type will do. Low clearance is always worse than high clearance unless you are talking about roll-over. AWD without locking diffs is just two wheel drive split front and rear. Better than nothing, but.... I caution against just driving across fallen trees though, haveing bent the frame on my CJ going over a single sided rock and comming down hard. It can be done. but the possibility of getting stuck or putting a limb stub through your oil pan is alot greater. Most SUVs don't have engine skid plates. A buddy destroyed a shock running over a tree once. Very bouncy after that and hard to control.

The end result is that proper and cautious driving will avoid most of these pitfalls. I have been through enough hurricanes and never needed to off-road to get around or out of town.

Again, it depends.

I think it would be more accurate to say that AWD *may* power as little as two wheels. But then again, so may 4WD.

The Quadradrive AWD system available on the WJ and WK JGC has a differential in both axles that can vary torque up to 100% to either wheel on that axle. It also has a transfer case than can vary torque up to 100% from the front to the rear axle. This is real AWD, but can push up to 100% torque to any wheel or a combination of wheels and performs very well, even compared to a fully locked up rig. It is slip based, and so it will push torque away from slipping wheels, so you don't have the problem with many limited slips type systems where they do not send the power correctly to the wheels that need it. And then of course, you can lock the transfer case so the front and rears are locked, but then it's really a hybrid of AWD and 4WD as is your example of AWD with locking axles.

Compare this with 4WD systems where at worst, you drive one front and one rear. Then, maybe you have a locking option for the front, maybe you don't. Usually this is an option the buyer must know to purchase. Even then, your rear may or may not be open. Possibly you get a limited slip option for the rear. In rare cases these days do you get a locking option for the rear.

Bottom line, I don't feel you can't generalize with current AWD and 4WD systems. The buyer must study the AWD or 4WD system(s) available in the vehicle on an individual basis.

An aside: Of course when people refer to "2WD", the system may only power one wheel. RWD, "2WD", FWD all may refer to one or two drive wheels depending on the system.

And of course, you must compare to system to the intended use.

-john

I guess I might was well throw my two cents in, got nothing better to do right now anyway. I am not a "car" person. I don't read the specs on every vehicle on the road, and hate to turn a wrench, other than maybe an oil change. That said, I think that you should buy more for your everyday needs, and what you can afford, with the possibility of having to take it "off road," (which can be a very nasty place), running third, or maybe forth, since I doubt that very few will have to actually do that. Decent AT tires (none of those low profile things, you will ruin a rim on a small chuckhole with them), and fairly high ground clearance, in case you have to go over a curb or smallish tree limb.

A couple of years ago we needed a new vehicle, our old Nissan 2wd P/U being very tired, and we ended up with a 2004 Chevy Tracker. Four doors (to haul the grandkids from time to time), 4WD automatic with a manual transfer case, flat towable (behind our home on wheels), and decent (I guess, 27 or so highway) mpg. We normally keep the back seat folded down, have two Action Packer boxes back there for emergency stuff, and a pod on top for all of our tent camping gear. Yes, that makes it a tad more top heavy, but most of the stuff up there is actually pretty light. And we carry two sets of chains with us all the time. I will not chain up to go anywhere (yet), but want to be able to chain up to get out if necessary. Chains can come in as handy for mud as snow/ice. Also a good 12v air compressor, so we can air the tires down if necessary, then air them back up as needed. Is this the perfect "survival situation" vehicle. Probably not. But it has worked for us so far, and it is paid for...

I'd vote for Subaru Forester too. I believe, that Subaru Forester would beat all of the above mini SUV's. We had a lot of off-road situations with it in the past 5 years. Compact, powerful with its boxer (horizontally-opposed) engine, low center of gravity, very well thought out interior design for most outdoorsman (I love the abundance of hidden compartments), and very reliable mechanically. The best in class on snow and ice without any chains.

Amen to that- I'd rather take the time to clear or route around an obstical than try to climb it. Even on foot. Unless you know exactly what is on the other side, and under what is visable, then there are too many risks. Better to loose time now than to have the vehicle get hung up or crippled.

Yeah, over here the "hillbillys" (guys who go out with their street worthy 4WDs and hit the mud track) prefer their Land Rovers and Landcruisers". These are the same ducks that think my choice for an SUV is something only "Texans and Wankers" would own. Guess it's a good thing I am from Texas then (heh heh).

I had to laugh when those same Land Rover owners spent the better part of the day pulling their rear axle after they blew up the differential trying to climb a hill.

Now the real bushmen like the bigger rigs, and like Ironraven alluded to, they prefer to put big tanks on so they can drive for a couple days between stations (ranches) without having to worry about fuel. The other thing these guys pack is a big toolbox and spare parts.

In my opinion, the Austrian made PINZGAUER is one of the best "Suv's" out there. It won't win any beauty contest, but it'll go pretty much anywhere you want it to.

PINZGAUER INFO PAGE

If we're looking at Military SUV category, the Wolf gets my nod.

http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/area.aspx?FolderID=185&docID=986

check the pdf for more details

I still vote for the Jeep Liberty, but I'll admit a Subaru is nothing to be sneezed at. I have a few friends with lightly modified Subaru cars which do amazingly well offroad. Of course the fact that they are not too worried about body damage helps a lot. Then again in a Bug out situation scratched paint and small dents will probably be the least of your worries.

The Subarus always invite my Jeep to go along with so I can pull them out when they get stuck

Mad Max was the first thing that popped into my mind when I saw that picture...

You need to define your priorities a bit better before a question like this can be properly answered.

First of all, as ironraven suggested, think about where you are and what emergencies you are likely to face that would require you to use a vehicle. As I'm in New Jersey as well, I can understand the requirements. New Jersey is a problematic place.

If you live at the shore, the most likely emergency is a hurricane.
If you live along the upper Delaware River, your most likely emergency is a flood.
If you live in the NYC metro area, well, good luck with that...it could be anything from urban chaos to an earthquake (you do know about the Hudson River Fault, right?) to another major terrorist attack.

The next thing you want to think about is, if the emergency requires you to relocate, where are you going? The most annoying thing about New Jersey when considering extended evacuation routes is that it's a peninsula. If you live in South Jersey, your only means of escape south of Trenton are the Delaware Memorial, Commodore Barry, Walt Whitman, Ben Franklin, Betsy Ross, Tacony-Palmyra, Burlington-Bristol and NJ-PA Turnpike bridges, all of which are likely to be either severely congested and/or closed in the event of emergency. Of course, you might want to consider a marine or aerial mode of transportation, if it's within your means.

Even farther north, your only options out of New Jersey are generally smallish bridges (other than Interstates 78 and 80), or heading into and through the most urbanized area in the entire country. And let's not forget that a vast portion of the Pine Barrens is taken up with major military installations like Fort Dix, McGuire Air Force Base, Fort Monmouth, Earle Naval Weapons Depot, and the FCC Tech Center outside of Atlantic City (NAAFEC, if you remember that far back). All of these places are potential high-value targets in some scenarios. They might also be high-value refuges!

The bottom line is, the only overland escape routes from New Jersey are on the border of New York State in the far north, of which a large portion is hilly to mountainous terrain that you have to consider and/or negotiate. So, for the vast majority of New Jerseyans, evacuation is likely to be a short trip.

The next thing you need to consider is, what are you planning on moving? First of all, do you have kids and pets? How many? What ages? The Jeep Wrangler is probably the most capable and most customizable off-road vehicle that most people can manage to obtain, but it's quite small. It really can only carry gear for two adults, given it's size, though it does have many advantages. Even the new TK version and the Unlimited versions don't have very much space at all, so carrying enough gear to support two adults and two children is going to be difficult, let alone pets.

As for the choices you listed, forget about all of them. They simply don't have the capacity or durability you want in an emergency vehicle. Those types of cute-utes are great as city cars and commuters, but they just don't have the goods when the going gets rough. The best thing overall is probably a traditional ladder-frame truck with solid axles front and rear, sized to fit your cargo needs.

The best choice for someone who needs that much space is probably a full-size pickup with an extended cab, or an equivalent SUV, like a GMC/Chevy Suburban or Ford Excursion, or optionally the silghtly smaller full-size Bronco or Blazer (one of the older ones that still have solid axles both front and rear). Of course, the larger vehicles will have problems with "breakover angle", but in most of New Jersey, that's unlikely to be much of a problem, as flat as most of it is. Even farther north, you're going to be limited mostly to the roads, anyway.

Another thing you need to think about is availability to you in an emergency. If the vehicle isn't accessible when you need it, it's worthless. All of the vehicles I mention here are going to, at best, get about 15 miles per gallon (excepting diesel versions, where you can probably expect 20-25), when driven as everyday transportation. Not the easiest thing to live with on a daily basis. You could also have a small car for commuting, but then if you're too far away to get the truck when the emergency happens, you might as well not have it at all.

Other than a truck then, your best option is probably an all-wheel drive station wagon. Which brings up another point about 4WD v. AWD. The typical part-time 4WD systems in trucks are really only meant for off-road use. Some trucks have full-time or full-time/part-time systems, but they are generally not as strong. Car AWD systems are really only meant for on-road use, but they are awesome in bad weather conditions. The best of them are the TorSen-based systems in many (but not all) Audi and VW cars, as they require no engagement mechanisms that can break. Not that others aren't capable, but those are arguably the best, and a similar system is used in the military HMMWV and Hummer H1 (though these trucks are massive, thirsty, and expensive).

You may also want to consider the installation of a gear-driven limited slip differential (similar to the TorSen system). Some cars come with these already, others can have them retro-fitted. Trucks may have limited-slip or locking differentials (or even limited-slip and locking, as in the Wrangler Rubicon). All of these things help with traction.

You won't have as much ground clearance with a station wagon (excepting the Volvo XC70 and the like), but more than likely, you'll be on road anyway, so you just have to decide which trade-offs are more attractive to you. The Subarus that others have suggested aren't bad. Subaru has a long history of all-wheel drive rally racing, and that translates to their cars.

The best option, if you are a single person and are willing to travel light, is to get a good dual-purpose motorcycle, like the venerable Kawasaki KLR650. It will go almost anywhere under almost any circumstances, and can easily bypass obstacles that will block a four-wheeled vehicle of any type.

Whatever you decide to drive or ride, keep your vehicles in a well-maintained state, make sure you never go home with less than a half tank of gas, and keep a couple of gas cans filled with stabilized fuel where you can get to them. If you're planning on including any off-road capability, make sure you take a course or two in off-road driving and recovery.

One of these days, I'm going to investigate the possibility of setting up a lifted, 4WD cargo van...:)

One last option you might want to think about is a small trailer. I'm looking into teardrop trailers right now that can be converted to a motorcycle carrier or a shelter, as the need arises. Something like that might take the cargo burden off your everyday vehicle, is light enough for even a passenger car to tow, and can be kept stocked with gear ready to bug out. They can even be built rugged enough for off-road use, and there are also even smaller trailers specifically designed to pull gear over rugged terrain.

The best of British - the Land Rover LR2 - I don't know much about American SUVs but all Landrovers can be used off road. You actually might be surprised just how many SUVs can't.
The Italian Lady I'm afraid does'nt come as the standard passenger equipment on Video 10

I have a CRV, it is a great snow and ice car. The AWD gives better
traction than the 4wd as it sends the power to the non-slipping wheels. This is why so many folks are recommending the limited
slip diff on the trucks. I had a chevy truck with limited slip
differential, but it worked only when moving. If you were already
stuck it was no help.

Another plus for the CRV is it is one of the few cars with front and back independent suspension which gives even better grip.

For any smaller car, a Thule box, Yakima box etc. on top gives tremendous extra space. Stuff like extra gas etc. is out of the passenger compartment too.

The main drawbacks I see to the new CR-V's, Subaru's etc is lack of
a low range and you can only run cable chains. But I feel a lot safer on icy roads than when I am driving my 4wd pickup or the
Ford explorer. Offroad the pickup is my choice. A double set of
really big chains will get you anywhere short of where a Unimog
will get you. http://www.offroad-trailer.com/readride/tommy-unimog.jpg

My Dad did budgeting for the US Forest Service in Washington State. Here was the list of durability of their vehicals (Trucks
and SUV's), with
most durable first.
Toyota
Nissan
Chevy
Ford/Mazda
Jeep
Dodge

This Sportsmobile 4x4 Ultimate Adventure Vehicle would be a pretty sweet survival SUV.

Be very careful recommending AWD, it is nice on wet roads but get off the road and into mud or get snow and it doesn't perform well at all. Think of the what if your evacuating and had to take a detour into the highway divider with AWD your going to get stuck.

Also a CRV is a small v6 powered unibody SUV which gets 20mpg. Full size v8 real 4x4 trucks with a strong frame and 3 times the cargo space get 20mpg. When you compromise and go with lack of cargo space and unibody you should gain something but the CRV has no advantages over another vehicle. Its a pretty poor design.

I dunno, it seems here in Oz a lot of them have a tendancy to break down quite a bit. The last outing I got taken on, two of the rovers ended up with broken rear diffs (apparently a weakness in the design). One of the first mods off-roaders do to their rovers is upgrade the axles and diffs. Another one got a punctured gas tank, which isn't necessarily a defect, but still makes you wonder why not a skid plate if they are gonna put the tank in that precarious a location.

Seemed like the rovers were suffering more calamities than the landcruisers and jeeps were over the same course. They also seemed to get stuck a lot more often in the mudholes.

Just an observation. Any vehicle can get broken quick enough if you push it beyond it's limits.

I think that comes down to the same vehicle being different in different parts of the world. The Same LR or TLC or Jeep in Europe is different than the one in the US and different than the one in Oz. Sometimes compromises have to be made to fit in different markets.

I couldn't agree more. When you see a Toyota LandCruiser in Africa or SE Asia, it is way different than the foo foo ones here in the States.

Something we observed last weekend might be interesting in this discussion. We were camping at a pretty primative site, and there was a combination dirt/sand/mud access road to get there, coupled with a small stream that had created a challenge to navigation. A little tributary that had decided to take the path of least resistance across the access road, created even more mud, nothing significant from a water perspective, but, it did create what seemed like a blend of mud/quicksand. Nice.

Several vehicles crossed over that muck, my Envoy in 4WD Low, also an old Jeep, an Expedition, Yukon, and 2 full size 4x4 pickups (F150 and another I can't recall).

Ok, so what did the recovery strap on my car get used for...

I dragged a Subaru station wagon out of the muck.

My buddy dragged one of those AWD mini SUV's out with his Expedition, I think it was the Honda version stuck, but, I saw that at a distance, it never came out to the campsite, it turned back.

Now, my wife drives one of those mini-Suv's, and they are great when you're on the road, in rain, snow, etc. The thing we noticed is that both of the vehicles that got stuck in the mud had 2 problems, minimal ground clearance (built on car style body), and relatively narrow tires. The narrow tires probably help in rain/snow on pavement, but, they are the kiss of death offroad in mud. I know that my Envoy has 245/65R17 M&S tires. Even that is modest, but, got through ok. The Subaru I yanked out had basically car tires on it that just made some nice narrow tracks in the mud, until the undercarriage reached the mud.

Like I said, my wife drives one of these AWD crossover SUV's, but, she stays, (I hope) on the road. I like them for driving around most of the time. In that environment, they really are great. If you think you might bug out to places that aren't as well maintained, things like ground clearance, wider track tires, and real 4WD Low can matter.

That may be true; then again, I wonder. Here in the U.S., the Land Rover as a brand has one of the very worst repair records of any make sold in this country. Repair RECORDS, as actually tracked by companies like J.D. Power and Consumer Reports, as opposed to mere opinions.

I find it hard to believe that the vehicles sold overseas could be so changed as to have a completely different reputation. There would seem to be a more logical explanation...

-=[ Grant ]=-

The overseas ones probably have a manual transmission so there is nothing to fail and the US model will have an automatic tuned for slow smooth shifts. The versions in the other countries probably have a simple diesel engine or gas with no emissions controls. The US models will have a gas engine with MFI, overhead cam, computer controlled, all sorts of smog and emissions controls. Then the US models will have power windows and locks and the overseas manual, the US version will have a fancy stereo with 18 speakers, the US version will need ABS, traction control and a bunch of other needless options to try to make up for lack of driver skill. The other country will have a lot less to fail. The one sold in the other countries will be better maintained with the owner doing maintenance as needed, the US model will be driven into a fast lube place when the owner isn't too busy and have some of its fluids partially drained as fast as possible and some more fluids dumped in by a part time employee who puts in "close enough" fluid.

I don't mean to lessen the importance of a well built 4x4 but I bet I've put more truly off-road miles on my honda accord than most people do on their 4x4's. The only two limitations, I couldn't go fast and I couldn't cross even moderate streams. In my opinion, how you drive is a lot more important than what you dive. Having said that, with a nice 4x4 nothing is funner than being able to go "through" something rather than having to go "around" it.

Part of my job is managing a fleet of business vehicles. This includes cars, suvs, and medium duty trucks.
I would strongly recommend a GM vehicle not only based on performance but also because they now have an AMAZING warranty! 100,000 mi. A traillblazer or tahoe (and they GMC versions) may be bigger than you need, they are the offroad capable suvs in the Gm lineup. The displacement on demand technology in GM suvs has made a tahoe able to get the same gas milage as other smaller suvs. They also can run on ethanol. As previously stated Explorers have become less and less of offroad vehicles. I have no experience with jeeps but have heard that they can either be great or plagued with problems.

- AWD is not the same as 4x4
- Light SUV = Light performance
- If it "rides like a truck, handles like a truck, it is a truck"

Customizing for survival:
- Sturdy Front Brush Guard/bull bar (protects the front of your car when in gridlock while evacuating)
- rear hitch caddy with a locking box (protects the rear of your vehicle and adds storage. Locking box is nice for security. Can lock extra gas up so it is not "borrowed".)
- lightly attached running boards (when "offroading" in a suv allowing non-essential items to tear away without damaging the vehicle is good).
- top luggage rack
- winch??? Ask yourself if you will need it.
- metal skid plate options
- Tires: Pavement or offroad?
- MAPS and GPS, Plan multiple routes

Then think about what can make your trip more comfortable.
-12 volt electric blanket and massage pad?

In a way, I agree with LED. I used to have a station wagon and it was fun for camping and going places. I spent many nights sleeping/camping in it. I still think a good station wagon is an asset for survival. Gas mileage, particularly, will be a plus.

You can add a luggage rack on the roof for bugging out and remove it if you wish when you arrive at your destination. A luggage rack on a station wagon can help you bug out without a trailer, which means FASTER bug-out.

And a station wagon is not a SUV or truck. No one will even guess you are a survivalist.

Obstacles ? Well there are obstacles to stop even the meanest of 4x4s. So a SUV isnt a guarantee that you wont get stuck or rolled over something when you are bugging out in a panick.

Plan ahead. And if you bug out early enough, chances are that 2wd station wagon will get you anywhere without a problem.

I haven't read the dozens of posts here, so forgive me if it's been discussed (and where it is, if you now).

Why the push for an SUV? I thought about this a bit over the last few days. I live in a fairly rural area of MO, and in an evacuation situation, there aren't a ton of roads or gas stations. So, I can either cut across fields, or stick with the few roads there are. I think I'm more inclined to stick with a car that can get 30-35 mpg than one that gets, hopefully, 20mpg. The smaller and hybrid SUVs might do better. But, if we're all sitting in traffic idling and not moving fast, I'd prefer a car that won't need a top off every few hundred miles. This rings even more true for me if I'm carrying extra gas. 5 gallons for 150 miles, or 75?

In an ideal world, my girlfriend's Camry would tow my Explorer until we needed to bail out cross country

I find medium-full sized SUVs tend to have comparatively larger gas tanks than smaller cars, so even if they do use a bit more fuel they tend to have a greater overall range.

For example, the Chevrolet Tahoe has a cruising range of 468 miles. The Corolla only has a cruising range of 435. So, even though the Tahoe gets about half the gas mileage it can go a greater distance before you have to stop for gas.

If you really want to go far my new Dodge dump truck has a 52 gallon diesel tank with a 22 gallon auxiliary tank. I can go over 1000 miles highway before I need to fill up.

The main reason I don't like cars and small SUV's is they are all unibody. What happens if you are evacuating and someone comes too close when they cut you off and you get in a minor fender bender? With a unibody vehilce your now dead in the water but in a frame based vehilce you can keep going and fix the bodyt damage later.
Fuel capacity is another issue. Smaller cars and SUV's have smaller gas tanks so even if you can get better milage you don't have as much range. Then sitting in traffic the small cars don't get very good milage either.
Also towing, a car like your camry can't safely tow. safely is the key word here, I'm seen people tow with front wheel drive cars and I always keep faw away from them.

In the US you almost can't buy a station wagon anymore and the maybe three there are to choose from are all front wheel drive. I think WV might still one, then there is the Volvo and maybe a mazda, nothing really worth buying.

That's what my dad has used as his hunting/fishing vehicle (which means it's his every-day car ) up in Minnesota. Snow, mud, logging roads, corn fields, slippery boat launches...this thing goes everywhere and he's only been stuck once (that's he's admitted). He's used it to pull other cars out of the places. The back area is big enough to carry an uncut sheet of plywood.

It's also does an amazing job of protecting its passengers. Dad, mom, DW, DD1, and I were in it when we were re-ended at 50 mph by a Ford 250 (we were stopped to make a left turn). It knocked us 15 feet and into a ditch. The Subaru was totalled but the only injuries to us were some scratches on DD1's face. She was in a rear-facing car seat and got showered by broken glass.

Dad went out and immediately bought another Outback (well, after the insurance money came, anyway).

However, if you are really tall test drive it for a while to make sure it fits. I find them a bit cramped, but then I'm 6'5" and 220lbs.

-Blast

Mu cousin's wife had one. In the Mountains of WV, PA, MD, etc they can barely make it up the hills, way underpowered. Then their AWD combined with the mountains made the gas milage drop. Their Dodge durango gets better mileage because it can pull the hills in OD instead of dropping down to 2nd.
Then they have a timing belt instead of a chain.

Ah, not aware of that problem. Not many serious hills in Minnesota or places it's been driven in Texas. Compared to the tiny 4-banger I have in my RAV4 his Outback seemed okay.

Thanks for the info!

-Blast

It gets even worse with the hybrid Camry. They are not rated for towing AT ALL. No, nada, nothing, no way, no how. In return for that, you have to really work at it to get them under 35mpg from a good size car. Bumper to bumper traffic at creep speed with the windows down & AC off burns no gas until you need to recharge the battery. (AC is all electric & off reduces battery drain)

i have a 77 jepp cj since 1982only minor prob with it ie starter x3 altx2 time belt x1 rebuiltmotor & tranny in88 good jeep

I beg to differ. My girlfriend can get from the north end of Missouri just about to her parent's house halfway into Wisconsin, on one tank. That's around 480 miles, according to Mapquest. My explorer gets, probably, 350 miles. So, at least with our 2 cars, hers gets by far better mileage. And, even if it is a smaller tank, that just makes it easier/faster to top off if a gas station is found. No killing 10 minutes topping off a gas guzzler and letting more traffic pass through.

As for city driving, she refills probably once a month around here; I'm lucky if I go 2 weeks (my car drops to just over 200 miles on a tank).

If I was to evac and stay on roads, her car would be the way to go. I don't worry much about inclement weather on pavement, since apparently 4wd doesnt' work that well on ice. Besides, she's a Wisconsin girl, and I'm a California boy: I can't drive that great on anything but dry pavement anyway!

Got to go with the new Jeep 4 door Wrangler (rubicon).

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/04/03/jeep-wrangler-gets-high-sets-record/

considering fuel will likely be an issue in any large scale emergency situation, what would be the overall best engine type?


Gasoline

Standard Diesel (which can obviously also use biodiesel)

Diesel modified to use raw vegetable oil, biodiesel, petrodiesel, or combination of all three.



Seems there are benefits of each. The last one seems the most flexible but I haven't read enough to know how reliable it would be.

The majority of smaller cars have small tanks and therefore short ranges, there will always be an exception to any rule, but in general the larger the vehicle the longer the range.
4x4 does fine on ice assuming the driver knows how to drive.

This was with 4 people in it. Getting on I64 in Maryland somewhere between the WV line and Cumberland those steep off ramps resulted in a lot of buzzing and vibrating and we thought we were going to have to get out and push up the ramp.
My mileage doesn't drop in the mountains, but I can stay in OD also.
We made the mistake of buying a minivan a few years ago. There is a steep hill coming down route 7 between Terra Alta and Kingwood in Preston county. By the time we got to the bottom and up the other side in Kingwood I would have to stand both feet on the brakes to get us stopped. Since I had to travel that hill a few times a year I would have to replace the brakes and rotors every year by the end of summer.
One thing I have learned is to never buy a front wheel drive vehicle, they just don't hold up under tough situations.

Problem with any modern Diesel is the filter and injectors need the fuel to be so clean its very hard to get them to run right on anything but standard diesel.

Nah, it just requires some heating and pre-filtering to run SVO. Biodiesel will run just fine if made properly. Most diesel vehicles are actually filled with biodiesel right from the factory.

in my humble opinion a land rover defender 90 would be best and a 110 even better.(bcos you say size wise not too big)
this is the mother of all off roaders and over time with a little cash you can create a vehicle thats totally self sufficient!! as for off roading..these are in iraq,afghanistan,the jungles of borneo,and the amazon.(although certain upgrades are in place in those extreme parts of the world.
there are many 4x4 forums that can keep you too!!

I would think that in an emergency situation, diesel would be easier to come by. There are fewer vehicles using it, so there would be less comptetition. The government would probably give diesel a higher priority since the transportation industry relies on it for the trucks that deliver food and essential goods.

The maine Issue I see now with diesel is the new deisel engines are super picky. The fuel filters in diesel trucks and cars that you or I would buy are filtering down to the micron requiring very clean fuel otherwise the filters fill up quickly.
The big OTR trucks hauling your food to the grocery store don't have to meet as strict emissions requirements yet so they can operate on less clean fuel. I'm seeing the make your own biodiesel fuel deal getting harder all the time as the vehicle systems get more complex.
older Diesels your safe but the buying something new they are becoming a big headache.

So how would a new diesel run if you removed the filter (only in an emergency of course)? Or are these new engines completely reengineered? I haven't really kept up with the technology.

You would have to replace some very expensive injectors. The newer stuff inhects the fuel at an even higher pressure and through finer nozzels in the injectros so it needs the cleaner fuel.