Coffee Bag Question for the Scientist Out There

I would like to know why we brew tea in tea bags and it taste fine but when we try to brew coffee the same way it does not taste as good.

Why does the drip process, (coffee filter) seem to work better for coffee and if it is better for coffee why is it not better to use a cone filter to brew tea.

Inquiring minds want to know.

I am not a scientist but I am a coffee enthusiast. In that respect I'll give you the best answer I can:

There are several reasons for why coffee out of a vacu-pak may not taste right. Proper tasting coffee comes from arabica beans; though frequently a brand may advertise they are using 100% arabica but may only be using 10% arabica with 90%robusta beans - which taste worse.

Most coffee purchased in a tin is usually very close to being stale. This is because the oils which provide the excellent 'coffee flavor' begin to break down almost immediately when exposed to air. While they are vaccuum sealed the fact that they are pre-ground means they will deteriorate that much faster. Generally once beans are ground they are only 'good' for a few days.

Short version: Basically in my experience they are using cheaper grades of beans which, having been pre ground, have lost almost all of their good flavor.

How to get the best coffee: Have freshly roasted beans, grind them yourself. A bean generally will last a few weeks if roasted and unground so that's another possibility. Locally we use:

http://www.greencastlecoffee.com/

That's the best I've got. Anyone else care to take a crack at his question?

It might be because you are used to tea bags.

I have had a few British friends who turned up their noses at tea bags and claim that the only way to get a good cup of tea is to follow a tea brewing ritual with loose tea.

I do not think that coffee bags make a "bad" cup of coffee. I just think that the coffee in the bag isn't all that great to begin with.

When car camping, I use a Lexan French press that will make an excellent cup of Joe if you start out with good coffee, but coffee bags are real handy for light travel and they sure beat instant.

Anyway, great question. I too would like to hear what the coffee police have to say about this.

I'm also a coffee nut, i roast the green beans myself, but am not connected to the industry. I suspect that the quality of the coffee goes down as the convenience goes up. This is probably because the manufacturers figure, well, if the customer is going to the trouble of grinding and brewing their own pot, then they probably care about the taste a little, but if they want to just throw a bag into a cup, then they care more about convenience and can probably deal with worse flavor. Also, if you pre-grind the coffee it will lose flavor much more quickly than whole bean regardless of original quality.

One thing which seems to be always true in the US is that cheaper and adequate always beats out higher quality but more expensive, at least for the general populace. You can substitute faster for cheaper and the result is the same.

how about this..when you pour boiling water on a tea
bag the temp gos down fast and the bag just "steeps"
in hot water,the tea rehydrates as the dry leaves open and
release the oils and caffeine..same with loose tea in a pot.
with coffee however you want to avoid having the grounds
in boiling water for very long because that will release too
much of the oils and make for a bitter brew..which is why a
paper cone works so well and cowboy coffee boiled in
a tin can is so nasty..so leaving a bag of coffee in hot water
long enought to get a strong brew will also result in a bad
cup of coffee that will be lukewarm by the time its strong
enought to drink..warm,bitter coffee--blawww.
i did try coffee bags and went back to tea..
by the way my old Scots Grandma boiled her tea ..that
would make your teeth feel fuzzy..

Good point, the brewing method totally affects the brew you get out. You should never leave the coffee in too long otherwise all kinds of bitter flavors come out into the brew, which is why percolator coffee is almost as bad as cowboy coffee. A proper drip machine would limit the water-coffee contact time. Also, the correct temperature is close to 200F, not easy to do in a teacup.

For espresso (my favorite method) the best quality is had when the extraction time is 20-25 seconds. Any more, and the coffee gets thin and bitter. In Illy's book on coffee, there's a nice picture where they swapped out the cups every few seconds while making an espresso, the first few cups have a nice red-brown color, the later ones are yellow and pale.

Per my previous post (yeah, I knew people don't read what I put up here much anymore), you can get a good cup of coffee out of a tea bag type brewing process. Case in point:

Here in Australia, a goodly portion of the people who will drink coffee at work usually just use freeze dried. Now I am a big coffee fan, but my tastes are more old school. I can appreciate a latte or mocha, but usually when I go to a coffee specialty shop, I just order either an americano or a plain cup of the coffee of the day. Freeze Dried is survival rations to me. Unfortunately they're not into brewing coffee much here, so I have had to make do for a time with the freeze dried using the hot water dispenser (about 180 degrees F) or go to the corner cafe and spend $4 for a cup that was in my opinion overkill. Fortunately I found a supplier at the local supermarket by the name of "Robert Timms" who makes a fairly decent batch of ground and whole bean coffee, and one method of packaging they use is the teabag variety, with each bag individually sealed in an aluminum/plastic pouch. The grind/roast is described as Italian Expresso style, and it has a tremendous aroma and is quite pleasing on the palate. I simply place one in my 8 oz cup and fill with very hot water. It steeps for maybe two minutes then I remove the bag and it is as good to me as any cup I've made or had anywhere in recent memory. Well, here, see for yourself.

Robert Timms coffee bags

Now I've had my share of the stuff they do like this stateside, like the Folgers and the Maxwell House, and I've never found any of them to be particularly enjoyable, but at least a grade above freeze dried. This Robert Timms stuff is far and away superior to any of the other stuff, and it brews up nice and strong, but not overwhelming.

I reckon it is a combination of using good quality beans, a decent grind, and sealing them up in a decent container. The oils that make good coffee will break down some, but you can save a good portion of the quality if you do it right, at least no worse than how I make it at home without getting too elaborate, and certainly good enough to be really appreciated in the survival pack.

So, the answer is it can be done, and done quite satisfactorily. Sure, the aficianados may criticize, but I don't tend to bring my grinder with me in a survival setting anyways. If tea in a bag is okay for most, then I reckon coffee in a bag ought to do just as well, especially knowing now that someone's figured out how to do it.

One thing's for certain, if I don't find this Robert Timms stuff back in the states, I will be grabbing up as much as I can take with me when I leave, and I'll make sure I'll have a way of getting more sent to me when the time comes.

These seem at least interesting enough to try. As long as they beat the swill they force us to drink here at work then I may even consider adding some to my kit(s) <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"...I knew people don't read what I put up here much anymore..."

Hey, I try to read what everyone has to say, even you. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Timms sounds like something I want to try, but after some really fast google work, it looks as if getting it in the states might be a tad difficult. Another reason to start saving money for a trip down under...

It is all about the beans. You can buy empty "tea bags" usually at Asian shops that can be filled with either coffee or loose tea.

If you purchase good beans, grind it correctly, fill the bags with a proper dose, and brew within hours of grinding you can get a very good cup of coffee. The problem with the prefilled coffee bags is that the coffee is completely stale so it tastes it.

Ground coffee has at most a few days shelf-life and in reality is degrading at a very fast rate, so the quicker it is brewed post-grind the better it will taste.

Brewing styles for coffee result in very different flavor profiles. Drip is very very efficient at removing flavor componets as fresh hot water is constantly moveing over the bean. Perk/boil/steep methods all have different profiles as the solubility of the various (thousands) compounds in coffee are extacted at different levels and then the lose of aromatics can be great for the hotter more aggressive methods.

Really though if you start with good FRESHLY ground beans the brew will be vastly better than if you start with flat stale coffee.

Both my wife and I are "big time" coffee drinkers and have been for years. I drink mine black and she puts milk in hers. Having said that we're pretty much peasants when it comes to coffee. Maxwell House/folgers et al are fine. At home we use a drip coffee maker and while car camping I use an old fahioned perulator.
Over the years I've tried a few of the bag coffees and have found them to be just hot brown water with caffiene.
I'd like to know if any of you have any suggestions on who if anyone makes decent tasting bag coffee. I looked at the site mentioned above and would like to try some but the $$$ for a ticket to the land down under prohibits that.

This is what I have tried and it works. It?s a teabag for use with loose tea but it works with coffe, too.
But coffe grind swells more than tea so one bag can hold coffee grinds for only 1-2cups. Just have to use more bags for bigger pots.

I?m sure you all get the idea how to use them from the picture. All the text is in finnish and swedish.

PS. At first I didn?t like this bag. It looks a bit like a female hygiene-product. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Click on the picture to enlarge.

I am talking to the Robert Timms folks about how best to procure their products stateside. I will keep y'all posted with the results.

If no one else is importing the stuff, maybe I can make a distributorship deal with them. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'll second your P.S. my friend !
That is exactly what the last two syllables of the text on the package (haudutu-xxxxx) would lead one to believe...........

Haudutuspussi is finnish for infuser bag.