how to make tinder from cotton and vaseline

im new and i want to ask how you guys make " tinder" from cottonballs and vaseline ( vaseline is the stuff people put on there skins right ? )( im a low budget guy ). and how does the end result looks like ? is it sticky ? or does it dry hard ? do you have to store it in a plastic bag or something before putting it in your PSK ? and uhm.. keep the instructions easy for me will ya, because my engish sucks ( im dutch ) and uhm.. thats it.

>>>vaseline is the stuff people put on there skins right ?<br><br>Yes. It's petroleum jelly.<br><br>There are two methods for applying it to cotton balls. <br><br>One, just dip the ball into the jelly and work it in a bit. <br><br>Two, heat up the jelly into a liquid state and dunk the ball into the liquid and squeeze "dry." Tom Ayers discussed the second method on this forum a few months ago. I haven't tried it yet but will in a few weeks before I go camping again. I'd use tweezers to dunk it and Tom cautioned to be careful when squeezing, as the liquid jelly is hot and can burn. He waited a brief moment before squeezing out the excess. But don't wait too long, as it will gel up again rather quickly.<br><br>You can store them in small plastic baggies or zip-lock bags, or in plastic film canisters. Tom also devised a method where he crammed several into a plastic drinking straw. He then crimped and seal the ends with a little heat. To use the cotton, you snip open the straw to remove. Seems east enough and I'm looking forward to trying it.<br>

I would think that caution may be in order here- heat sealing a flammable plastic tube containing petroluem jelly (closely related to napalm) sounds like it might have a downside.

We have another member from the Netherlands, Bagheera who can help you out with many questions. Tapping on monitor glass- Bagheera are you there?

thanks dude

I searched the forum messages for Tom's original post. Click here to see it.<br><br>He actually didn't suceed and was eyeing his wife's iron. I haven't seen any postings about impending divirce procedings so I guess he never tried it. :-) I would imagine that a soldering iron would work and would be far safer than a flame.

Well, I cannot comment on Tilley hats, but this is something I know about <grin>...<br><br>I don't want to start any flame wars - but petroleum jelly isn't even remotely napalm - a matter of professional minutia. Napalm was a specific name (may be trademarked) but now is used as a generic term that means thickened hydrocarbon fuel. (Think "velcro" vs "hook-and-pile-fastener") Originally made from "palmitic acid" (used for making soaps, and yes, it's from palms) + "almost gasoline". I'm intentionally leaving some parts of the process out, for obvious (I hope) reasons. <br><br>The process today is basically the same and any number of specific ingredients may be employed commercially. "Na" (Napthalene) + "palm"(palmitate) = "Napalm". (palmitate is generic-speak for salts from palmitic acid, IIRC) Napthalene is way generic from naptha, which is generic for various near-gasoline fractions (and said fractions may constitute significant portions of what we call "gasoline". For discussion's sake, napalm is about the same as thickened ("jellied") gasoline.<br><br>Jellied fuels (actually more properly termed "thickened fuels") substantially retain all the flamability characteristics as the parent fuel - like flash point. Some armored fighting vehicles use thickened fuel (diesel) to reduce the hazards resulting from getting struck by various projectiles, but the ability of the fuel to perform its function in the engine is unaffected by being thickened. I don't believe that petroleum jelly is in the same league as diesel, let alone gasoline...<br><br>Anyway, the melting point of plastic drinking straws is WAY below the ignition temperature of cotton, petroleum jelly, or the combo. But don't use a bic lighter or any other flame to seal <grin>. A seal-a-meal type device is too hot/too concentrated to do the job for me, so I gave up. The straws work fine left open; I abandoned efforts to seal them as it's too much effort for too little gain.<br><br>As to the original question - try various amounts of petroleum jelly. They all ignite easily from spark or flame. Small amounts of petroleum jelly in the cotton ball is barely palpable, ignites readily, and burns long enough to do the job. Large amounts - such as dipping in molten petroleum jelly and squeezing out the excess - leaves a sticky cotton ball that ignites just as readily and burns for a significant amount of time - long enough to dry out and ignite wet kindling. No matter how much one uses, the cotton ball must be teased out - fluffed up - to readily catch the sparks. The key is to work the petroleum jelly completely thru the cotton ball so that every strand of cotton has a film of the pj on it. The EASIEST way to do this is the dip-and-squeeze method, but one then must package the result as it's a somewhat gooey mess - hence my straw suggestion. Oh - use a double-boiler method for melting the jelly, just as one would for melting candle wax - and BTW, melted petroleum jelly is much LESS likely to ignite on the stove than melted candle wax, I am QUITE certain - empirically determined by moi and others. There is greater separation between the melting and ignition points of pj than there is for candle wax.<br><br>Hope that helps.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom

Tom, you're beginning to scare me! ;-)<br><br>Re: sealing straws.<br><br>I can't imaine it taking a lot of heat to seal an end of a plastic straw shut. I may try the soldering iron as I have several spare tips I can sacrifice. And I'll try heating up the a scrape piece of copper tubing I have left over from a plumbing project as a "die."

No flame wars from me... was that pun intentional? :-)<br><br>Ok, I plead ignorance... at least to us non-chemists, " ("jellied") gasoline" (from your description of napalm) sounds a great deal like "petroleum jelly" (Vaseline)... <br><br> …but I haven't tried defoliating the back yard with the stuff... yet... so maybe not.<br><br>I only intended to inject a note of caution into a discussion on heat-sealing improvised containers of what is presumably pretty flammable stuff... that is what we want it for, because it’s flammable, yes? Personally, I'd be really hesitant to use a soldering iron- aside from any possible risk, I think it would just melt the straw too quickly to control. I might point out that it's just possible that the ignition temperature of the polystyrene straw is lower than that of the Vaseline itself, but the results of reaching either would probably be pretty indistinguishable.<br><br>Two trivia items this brings to mind: <br><br>I once met a guy who, with what seemed to amount to glass-blowing techniques, could use a plastic straw and a candle to produce tiny pitchers, cups and saucers.. pretty impressive, at least in person. He used the thicker, striped straws, not the very thin transparent ones used in fast food joints today.<br><br>The difference in pronunciation between "baseline" and "Vaseline" is a good test to see whether you're dealing with rule-based or dictionary-based text-to-speech conversion. They only differ in the initial letter, and rules for “b” and “v” are almost identical, so if the software pronounces them both correctly, it's almost certainly dictionary-based. That's pretty symptomatic of the reasons why, along with increased storage and processor power that favors look-ups, rule-based is rapidly fading away these days.<br><br>So, it’s useless… hence the name "trivia". :-)<br>

>>was that pun intentional?<< Yes :-)

One other risk to which Tom & Bill only vaguely alluded: your overall peace & contentment will survive only if your wife is away from home when you try any of the stovetop approaches. Allow ample time for fastidious cleanup. They have ways of finding out these things. If you are seen or leave any signs of your activities, you will be conclusively presumed guilty of all manner of sloppiness. <br><br>Remember, YMMV. ;-}<br><br>John

Tom,<br><br>What is the purpose of putting them in the straws if you don't seal the ends? When the ends of the straws are left unsealed, doesn't the vaseline ooze out, and then pervade everything in the kit box?<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>John

I made some of these using the hand-rubbed vaseline method, not the hot stove dip method, and they did not ooze vaseline. I squeezed the cotton so tight into the straw that any excess vaseline that was going to come out would have. I considered sealing the ends but decided it was not necessary.

Schwert,<br><br>Doesn't the the petroleum jelly migrate out of the straw over time? Or when the straw is vertical for prolonged periods?<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>John

John, not so far. I haven't carried it that way on HOT Wx yet, so we'll see. Tom

We have two kitchens in our home - I used the one I'm allowed to putter in <grin>. It's one of my shops, er, laboratories, er, well, I get to make messes in there... as long as I bake bread once in a while...

Tom,<br><br>LUCKEEEEE!!!!<br><br>You are so lucky. I can't believe it. Not only 2 kitchens, but having such true ownership of the property that you, the husband, are allowed to use one for his own projects even to the extent of making messes. C'est incrediblement!!!<br><br>Tom, I was impressed with your work & abilities before, but all that pales in comparison to this achievement. <br><br>Folks, do not try this in your own home. We are witnessing such true expertise & genius, that we cannot even dream to replicate this project in our own home kitchens. At least not while our wives are at home. :-))<br><br>John

HA so the most of you got those wife's who doesnt really like your survival stuff, he. well atleast you guys dont live with you mother like i do ( im only 15 so.. ) it is ****** hard to find a moment were i can do all those survival preparation thingys( behind her back.. ), bacause she's woring about this and that and the mess i make and stuff.... so be happy you guys are out of your parents house

[censored] gramm !! btw did i mansion that i do those things with safety in mind, so dont worrie !

Get your kids into scouting and then make it a scout project. The wives will tolerate anything for the kids.<br><br>It's for the kids honey. Just think ... It's a healthy thing for them .... Atleast they aren't down on the corner with the druggies!<br><br>I've been able to get my wife to participate in such messiness through this type of argument. <br><br>YMMV ;^)

John,<br><br>So far the vaseline has not moved out of the straw. However, I made these in probably February, and like Tom noted, they have not been exposed to any high temperatures. <br><br>I put 3 of these in the hollow handle of my CReeve knife along with a BSA Hot Spark. Any migration of the vaseline here will not matter. <br><br>I placed 2 in my PSK, which rides in my daily carry bag 90% of the time and in my shirt pocket occasionally. I opened this today....lots of tape, and there was no mess in there either. I took the precaution of placing these straws in pieces of "dry" cotton balls that I have used as anti-rattle firestarting stuffing (ARFS). Any migration should cause no harm. My cotton was by no means soaking in vaseline. <br><br>I will watch these over the summer to see if sealing would be a good idea, but I really do not anticipate having to do much.<br>

I haven't done the straw thing (yet), so this is just a WAG (WildA$$edGuess), but if leakage is a problem, couldn't you just fold the end of the straws over and either staple them shut or whip them with some dental floss or something???

PC2K<br><br>Mothers & wives are a lot alike--they're always making you clean up after your projects. 'Ceptn' maybe for Tom Ayers, and I think maybe he's tellin' a tall tale when he doesn't think she's listening. ;^} <br><br>Try to enjoy being a teenager. The best time of your life is always the one you're living at the present.<br><br>John<br><br>

miniMe,<br><br>We do get a lot of mileage out of that rationale. And she even recognizes that it is largely true. But sometimes ...<br><br>John

PC2K--Congratulations on your command of the English language. I wish my 14-year-olds could speak another language 1/2 as well as you speak/write English. You honor those of us who are native English speakers by putting in the effort to communicate with us in our own language. Thanks.<br><br>Robb

PC2K, I wish most American 14 year olds could use English as well as you can, much less a second language.

I tried using a Wendy's straw and my own iron to seal the ends, but it didn't work. But what's wrong with smearing the inside of the straw with Krazy Glue (put a drop on a piece of plastic, then 'paint' the inside with a toothpick), and crimping it shut?<br><br>And why do you need the vaseline? What does it add? I just took a standard cotton ball out of the package, fluffed it up like you guys said, and struck a light with four Ronson lighter flints that I KG-ed to the lid of my Altoids tin. The first one lit in two tries, the second one in three. Granted, they only burned for a few seconds, but if you've built your fire properly, that should be enough, shouldn't it?<br><br>Where's the advantage in messing about with vaseline or other accelerants? What does it gain me?

Forget about postings about divorce...the real question is have we seen ANY posts from Tom since he tried it! <br><br>Robb

The official american medical name for vaseline is petrolatum, nf

I thought "petrolatum" was mineral oil?

aard,<br><br>I like your idea for sealing the straw, at least at the distal end. I suspect the vaseline would coat the inside of the straw on the proximal end, thereby precluding adhesion. Conceivably the outside of the straw could be cemented with, say, an epoxy, flattened, & folded towards the middle, thereby sealing proximal end.<br><br>I haven't personally tried the plain cotton balls, so I cannot comment on them. A few seconds of burn time is no better than a match. Iin my experience, the burn time of lint was a matter of seconds. Vaseline covered cotton balls burned for nearly a minute. The cotton balls impregnated with vaseline burned about 5 minutes. YMMV.<br><br>The purpose of this fire starter/tinder, is to provide a prolonged application of heat to the other tinder/kindling to ignite it. Remember, fire requires 3 components: oxygen + fuel + heat. A brief exposure to heat is not likely to heat up the fuel enough to burn it. That is one purpose of using this prolonged igniter. If the wood is wet, additional heat & time are necessary to dry it before ignition. Similarly, very cold wood/fuel also requires additional heating time for ignition. Other factors may also complicate fire starting making an extra margin in fire starting crucial, (e.g., rain/snow).<br><br>John

john; Thanks very much for your response. Not having been a Boy Scout when I was younger, I was pre-occupied with just getting a flame going. Now that you mention it, although I haven't tried the vaseline-soaked cotton balls, I did try spraying a cotton ball with Deet-based insect repellent. Whereas the dry cotton ball burned for about 5 seconds, the repellent-soaked one burned for a little over half a minute, although it gave off a rather oily smoke.<br><br>Otoh, my PSK contains both a tea-light candle and a hexamine tablet (plus 4 strike-anywhere matches dipped in paraffin, plus a flat Fresnel plastic lens), so I guess I'm thinking along more minimalist lines - i.e. if I have the presence of mind to bring a Wendy's straw stuffed with vaseline-soaked cotton wool, chances are I'll also have a Bic lighter, or maybe even my pocket Butane torch (with the Piezo-electric sparker :-)<br><br>I think sometimes, when engaging in these discussions, I forget to make a distinction between hoping for the best and preparing for the worst. At the one extreme, if I'm lost I would like to have my pocket Butane torch, my handheld GPS and my handheld aviation radio; at the other extreme, I want to be able to survive even if I've lost everything but the clothes on my back and my car keys. I guess carrying a small tube of vaseline-soaked cotton wool falls somewhere in the middle.