I'd never heard this one before

Posted by: Malpaso

I'd never heard this one before - 02/14/07 01:48 PM

I help teach a hunter education/safety course along with a half dozen or so other instructors. Last night's segment was on survival aspects. Along with many things that have been mentioned here, such as leaving a note as to where you are going, calling at specific times, etc., one of the instructors mentioned this. Before leaving your house, take a large piece of heavy duty aluminum foil, put it on your carpet and step on it with the boots that you will be hunting/hiking with. Leave the impression at home with your note, or in your vehicle. That way if you get lost and searchers try to track you, they can differentiate your footprints. I thought that was pretty ingenious.
Posted by: Alan_Romania

Re: I'd never heard this one before - 02/14/07 03:40 PM

I have heard of this before, but have never known anyone that actually did this on a regular basis. I personally usually send an email to a friend with a description of where I am going, what I am wearing and a PDF file of the map from TopoUSA with my expected route drawn out. I print this all out and leave it in plain view on my front seat of my truck. The foil foot print might be a good addition.
Posted by: rescueguru

Re: I'd never heard this one before - 02/14/07 04:27 PM

I've heard this reccommended before for solo hikers. Having been involved in S & R and trained for mantracking, rescue only, I can see where this would be very beneficial if that imprint was available to searchers. Leaving a note, e-mail, or map of a potential location along with carrying an EPIRB should give the rescuers a distinct advantage if the individual is lost or injuried.
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: I'd never heard this one before - 02/14/07 04:31 PM

I have heard of it for years, but have always wondered how many SAR folks have the tracking ability to pick "your" print out of all the others on a lot of trails. (Using Vibram as an example, there are a jillion Vibram track on just about every trail I have seen in the last thirty or so years)

If one is going to do this, I would suggest cutting a notch out of one part of your boot soles, that would make "your" print different than all the others out there...
Posted by: Misanthrope

Re: I'd never heard this one before - 02/14/07 04:54 PM

Remember it being strongly recommended in Cody Lundin's book, for solo or group's. Make a boot print in the foil, mark your name with a marker, and leave it on your dash.

I don't know jack about tracking, but in a heavily traveled area, it might give the SAR team an edge.


M
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: I'd never heard this one before - 02/14/07 05:24 PM

Interesting test. I only missed one on the first level, and I am not a tracker. I passed the test on to a friend of mine who is on a CA Sheriff's SAR team...
Posted by: harrkev

Re: I'd never heard this one before - 02/14/07 05:31 PM

Quote:
I print this all out and leave it in plain view on my front seat of my truck.
Nice way to let thieves know that you won't be beack to your vehicle for a couple of days. You might come back to smashed glass and a missing stereo.

Is it enought to leave your plans with a trusted friend only, or is the vehicle thing a good idea?
Posted by: hailstone

Re: I'd never heard this one before - 02/14/07 07:16 PM

You might be able to differentiate between different sets of tracks with similar soles using a tracking stick to measure the strides, but we didn't have very good luck with this during training in the snow.

Personally I feel that leaving a scent article would be far more useful than a foot print. The dogs always beat us when following a track.
Posted by: M_a_x

Re: I'd never heard this one before - 02/14/07 08:04 PM

Putting the information into the car could be a good idea. If you put it in the vehicle it might be good to put it where it can be found easily. That does not mean that the information should be clearly visible. I´d put it in an envelope and maybe into the glovebox.
Posted by: Dragonscript

Re: I'd never heard this one before - 02/14/07 08:18 PM

I wonder if a boot make and model would be as useful, as long as you don't get the sole changed.
Posted by: M_a_x

Re: I'd never heard this one before - 02/14/07 08:23 PM

I think that it is less useful. The boot may not be readily available and it will lack the individual marks caused by wear.
Posted by: oldsoldier

Re: I'd never heard this one before - 02/14/07 08:52 PM

I've heard of it, and our western MA S&R folks allegedly had some "expert" trackers as well. However, one boot print does look like the others...and, honestly, if you're lost on a trail, someone will find you eventually. ITs the more subtle tricks of off-trail tracking where skill comes in; a bent branch, kicked stones, etc. Usually (hopefully) with a partial track here & there. But, human trackers are, honeslty, the worst. USe a dog. Most S&R teams have air & scent dogs. They can track for days, and dont require visual confirmation. A human tracker would be an absolute last resort. At least, thats been my experience.
Posted by: AROTC

Re: I'd never heard this one before - 02/14/07 10:15 PM

And if you expect SAR to be tracking you down with dogs, leaving something with your scent on it could be useful. It could be a t-shirt you've worn and not washed, or just a washcloth rubbed over your body to collect your scent and kept in a ziplock bag. That way at least someone wouldn't have to break into your house and go through your laundry hamper.
Posted by: AROTC

Re: I'd never heard this one before - 02/14/07 10:30 PM

Yeah, passed the first two levels with eight correct in each. I guess the point of it is to fix the information from a course in one's head rather then to test tracking ability.
Posted by: Alan_Romania

Re: I'd never heard this one before - 02/14/07 10:31 PM

Not really, a envolope on your drivers seat isn't going to temp a theif anymore then a vehicle in a trailhead parking lot. Having the information in your vehicle is a goos idea, if you are reported missing and your vehicle is found PD will be able to gain access and that info (including what excat time you left your truck) will be beneficial to searchers. Having a friend who knows, and has that information is good... but duplication is better! You know, one is none, two is one.

And, you leave you vehicle in a trailhead parking lot overnight and it IS going to get broken into... it is just a matter of time.

Like Doug, I am a firm believer in PLBs however it is not a replacment for notifiying a friend.
Posted by: teacher

Leave duplicate notes - 02/14/07 11:54 PM

Good idea;
One note with a friend and one in your truck. Or does that duplicate what you said?

TRO
Posted by: teacher

"Honey, I'm ..." - 02/14/07 11:57 PM

I'm working on a standard form for reporting where/ when you're going out. I'm calling it a " Honey I'm form.{ As in " honey, I'm going for a hike; I'll be at X till Y...etc}

Would people like to see this?

Is there some other form of this type?

What info should be included to help find you?

Teacher
Posted by: oldsoldier

Re: "Honey, I'm ..." - 02/15/07 12:32 AM

Bedsheets are a useful tool for getting good scent. Not that you will carry them with you when going out, but, good for the dogs <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: Alan_Romania

Re: Leave duplicate notes - 02/15/07 12:37 AM

Quote:
Good idea;
One note with a friend and one in your truck. Or does that duplicate what you said?


Yup, that's the ticket! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: Misanthrope

Re: I'd never heard this one before - 02/15/07 01:18 AM

You leave one of my t-shirts in a zip lock bag, after playing in the dirt for a couple of days, you're going to have a dead dog on your hands. That's just mean.. You must not like dogs. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

M
Posted by: clearwater

Re: I'd never heard this one before - 02/15/07 04:01 AM

Back when I was a kid in Explorer Scouts Search and Rescue, we all cut off a
different bit of the vibram "stars" on one boot sole, so when other searchers came across our tracks they could be reasonably sure it wasn't the person being searched for.

My father in law often leaves a note in the car at trailheads saying something to the effect
"Bob, out sighting in the new rifle, back in a few hours."
Posted by: ironraven

Re: I'd never heard this one before - 02/15/07 05:43 AM

If you find their car, slim jim the door and give the dog a few seconds of sniffing the drivers seat. Most cars are really only driven by one person.

And I know, there is a potential 4th Amendment issue, but that only applies to the police. Not to firefighters, EMTs and SAR volunteers. Anyone who is whiny enough to try to make a civil case, all I can suggest is put them back where you found them.
Posted by: wildman800

Re: "Honey, I'm ..." - 02/15/07 05:45 AM

I suggest that you contact the local USCG Sector Office and request, under the Freedom of Information Act, a copy of the standard SAR Questionnaire that has to be completed as much as possible at the beginning of a new case.
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: "Honey, I'm ..." - 02/15/07 05:52 AM

Unless I am having another senior moment, some time in the past year or so someone posted a pretty good looking sample form on this forum. I would search for it, but I am on an aircard, but that is slower than a dialup connection, and I just can't stand the waiting. Maybe someone with a high speed connection can do it...
Posted by: ironraven

SAR Questionaire - 02/15/07 06:00 AM

That was in a book on SAR my brother lent me years ago, IIRC. Can't remember the name, but about 3-3.5" wide, black spine with white lettering, hard cover. I think one of the covers had someone being lowered in a Stokes on an inclined rock face. The authors helped set up a team in the Rockies back in the 70s, it's supposed to be one of the standard/classic texts on the topic. Is the book ringing any bells with anyone?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone here knows of a place where it is available online. BASARC.org used to have them, but their migration to PDF has become hung up and that form is "under construction", if it is the one I'm thinking of.
Posted by: Susan

Re: I'd never heard this one before - 02/15/07 06:28 AM

If you're going to leave a deliberate scent article, don't use something that was in the laundry hamper mixed with other people's clothes. And if possible, use something that isn't loaded with perfumes from the detergent and softener. Just take a clean cotton handkerchief and tuck it inside your waistband, next to your skin for half an hour or so, the drop it in a ziplock bag. Leave it on the seat of your car, labeled 'Joe Smith, scent article'.

Sue
Posted by: oldsoldier

Re: SAR Questionaire - 02/15/07 12:45 PM

FEMA runs most SAR teams now, and sets guidelines for searchers. States arent required to abide by them yet, but, I see it happening in the future, where ever SAR volunteer is "standardized". You can check out the FEMA website, they may have something there too.
Posted by: AROTC

Re: I'd never heard this one before - 02/15/07 02:09 PM

That'll work, but I think dog handlers will sometimes give the dog another sniff along the way to refresh the memory. And while, I wouldn't mind them slim jimming my car open, I would mind them ripping all the wiring out of my car door. Modern cars are getting close to impossible to slim jim, even if they don't have a lot of security measures they're chocky full of wiring. I'd just as soon they didn't have to try.
Posted by: paramedicpete

Re: SAR Questionaire - 02/15/07 07:48 PM

Here are a few responses to some of the various posts on this subject.


Actually, FEAM does not run most SAR teams. They do have FEMA funded and supported Urban Search and Rescue Teams (USAR Teams), but most wilderness and non-structural urban search (lost person) teams are either local fire department (east coast) or associated with a Sheriff’s Department (mid- and western regions). All lost person searches are Law Enforcement (LE) events, until proven otherwise. Generally, LE is the entity/agency in charge of the search with fire/rescue in support for the rescue portion of the operation.

Yes, a national credentialing program for wilderness search and rescue, along with swiftwater and a few other rescue specialties that have not historically been covered by the Professional Qualifications Board for the Fire Service. The PBQ, uses NFPA standards for establishing criteria for which to evaluate and certify the level of training of an individual in particular areas of firefighting and rescue. The SAR criteria, while purposed is still under review, but as you point out, is eventually coming.

As to leaving an article of clothing for search purposes, just realize that search dogs, like people are specialized. Air scent dogs, do not or will not use an article of your clothing to perform search operations. They detect any human scent, so it is important not to contaminate the search area with unnecessary personal/visitors. A tracking dog will use an article of clothing to perform their search function. Cadaver dogs detect the byproducts of human remains decay. While there are dogs that cross detect, most are highly specialized.

Pete
Posted by: teacher

Re: "Honey, I'm ..." - 04/24/07 04:45 PM

...I'll try and find a draft of this form...
Posted by: Nomad

Re: "Honey, I'm ..." - 04/25/07 03:05 PM

I also cut a chunk from someplace on the sole of my boot. It makes the print very distinctive. And I have used it to track myself (did I really come this way??). You would be suprised at the number of Altama boot prints I have seen that are not mine.
Posted by: kharrell

Re: "Honey, I'm ..." - 04/25/07 07:18 PM

Originally Posted By: teacher
I'm working on a standard form for reporting where/ when you're going out. I'm calling it a " Honey I'm form.{ As in " honey, I'm going for a hike; I'll be at X till Y...etc}

Would people like to see this?

Is there some other form of this type?

What info should be included to help find you?

Teacher


I did a simple seach around a few weeks ago, but didn't find one.

I was thinking of creating my own form also. I was going to base the first draft off of Cody Lundin (98.6) recomendations.

Part of the form could have checkboxes. (ie topo map attached).

In the past, I have been very bad at leaving "The note". I want to make it standard practice. I need a standard form that helps capture all the criticals.

Maybe post a first draft here and have people give constuctive critisism.
Posted by: kharrell

Re: "Honey, I'm ..." - 04/26/07 02:59 AM

My first draft is done.

I attached it to this message for comments.