What's your input: Ranger Rick's SOS Survival Kits

Hi again guys!

First of all, I want to thank all of you who helped me with my Aquatab issue, if it’s legal or not to sell in the USA. You guys know your poop and were a TREMENDOUS HELP. Not to mention you save me a lot of [research] time and possibly some legal confrontations too.

So what I intend to do is to play it safe by changing it to a “mini water container kit” and NOT a “water purification kit” and the Aquatabs come along with it FREE. And that the Aquatabs are not FDA nor EPA approved, they are manufactured outside the USA and to use it only in emergency life or death survival situations “at your own risk.”

Second, I sent an email to Chris asking if I can mention [here] about my new & improved Special Ops Survival Necklace and my other SOS Kits. Which he said that I could or I wouldn’t have just mention it.

Several years ago I forward Doug some samples of my old SOS Necklace and some of you here found out about it before he had time to conduct some tests on it and do a review too. Many of you thought it was a good idea in thinking outside the box and few of you didn’t like it at all and deeply criticized it.

Well, I’m a good listener and took in all your [negative] input and made some changes to it by deleting some items and adding a few more. And so now I would like your input again on what you think of my new & improved SOS Necklace. Check it out by logging onto www.therangerdigest.com and then click on my survival necklace “banner.”

Now com’on guys, be nice, this ain’t suppose to be a long term “Robinson Caruso” pioneer survival kit, only a short term survival kit.

I already know what some of you are going to say that I need to add a small container with some fishing line, hooks and some snare wire too. I’m already ahead of you on that and plan to add it to my SOS kits, just waiting on some suppliers to get back to me. Which I will then place these items inside the same type of container that my water container kit comes in.

Anyway, go ahead and take your best shot at it and let me know what you think of it and what you think it still needs or to be deleted. Like I state on my website, if you don’t wanna wear it as a necklace, then just carry the items inside a small container. Which by the way, I am also working on selling it as both, a survival necklace and key chain and letting the buyer assemble it the way he wants it. Be easier than to sell it as two separate kits.

Changing subjects…. You guys wanna laugh? You’re gonna get a kick outta this, I gotta get in the habit of avoiding using “Ranger Rick” and instead use “Army Ranger Rick.” Because this past summer I was contacted by a Washington, DC law firm who was representing the US Forestry Service. And they told me they have a federal trademark on the name “Ranger Rick” and if I don’t stop using it then they will take me to court.

According to the letter, the USFS has a magazine called “Ranger Rick” and the cartoon in it, a raccoon, is HIS NAME. And according to them, everytime some kid types in “Ranger Rick,” instead of their website & info popping up, my website (www.therangerdigest.com) pops up first instead of theirs. They, the USFS has received numerous complaints about this and so they, either this law firm or the USFS went through my entire website and found every link and page where my nickname [Ranger Rick] appeared and told me I had to either remove it or change my name, OR ELSE.

And to be honest, I was not happy about it, but then after I thought about I found it to be quit funny. And so I contacted a military JAG officer because I’m retired (military) and I’m allowed free legal advice. And so they told me I could continue to use Ranger Rick provided I placed the word “Army” or the Army “Ranger Tab” in front of my name first.
And so that’s what I did and wrote back to that law firm and told them what the JAG officer told me and they approved of it and I have never heard from them again. And so I like to tell people that I was almost taken to court by a “damn cartoon.”

Well, I think I rattled on enough, it’s now 12 noon here in Italy and so it’s 6 am and 3 am back there wherever you guys live. And so I’ll end this by saying if you have any questions that need an immediate reply back, it’s best you email me at: [email]survivalnecklace@hotmail.[/email] Otherwide I will continue to log onto this forum from time-to-time schedule and time permitting.



Ok, now I gotta go, if any of you guys are ever in or around my part of the world and country (Italy), com’on in and stop by for several glasses of Italian wine. I’m retired (military) and live here on the largest lake in Northern Italy called Lake Garda in a town famous for it’s wine – Bardolino.

When I have time I’ll tell you guys how the Italians do survival here. Nothing against the Italians, my wife and kids are 100% Italians, it’s just that they want to do things here differently than we do back in the states.

Take care and I’ll be watching for your comments about my SOS kits.

Thanks Chris for allowing me to post this here, and thank you too Dough and the samples will be sent off to you shortly.

“Army Ranger Rick” Tscherne

Owner, www.therangerdigest.com

I like the fact that you listend to your customers.

Probably the best improvement is the knife instead of using the sharpend dog-tag. Replacing the four-finger fire starter with the ferro-rod and
adding a photon-type of flashlight are also good changes.

As I told you in a E-mail I sent you some time ago, I still don't like the condom as a water-container, but at least you now have instructions on the web-site.
Wrapping the ferro-rod with a gerber milk-bag isn't a option?

Hey, I'm still here online, you got me - what's a gerber milk-bag???

I never heard of it, can you send me a link/

I'll do it, since I am here right now. This is the first link that popped up when I did a google search. Neat bags, much better than a condom for water. You can find them (in the US anyway) just about anywhere they sell baby stuff...

Hmmm, I guess I've been living here in Italy too long. Or maybe it's because the last time the military "issued me" a baby was way back in 1978, and that's why I'm not up-to-date with this stuff.

I like it, go great in some tin or plastic survival container, but I don't know if it will fit inside my little red container. To wrap it around the signal mirror or mag rod fire starter might make it a bit uncomfortable to wear with the other stuff.

And if it was attached to the SOS key chain or 550 paracord survival kit, it might get punctured.

Hell, I'll give a try, let me see if I can find them down on the base.

Thanks for tip/idea!

Good luck. They can be rolled/folded to 'bout the size of your normal extralargemuchogrande (aka medium) condom, but they aren't in a nice foil package. If the BX/PX whatever doesn't have them, they are so light that I suspect you could have a jillion of them shipped to you for 'bout a bucksixfifty...

Hey "Army" Ranger Rick, its been awhile since I have seen you in "print". I gotta say that I love the changes you have made to the necklace and keychains. Especially the added paracord braid. While I know most can braid their own paracord I also know a lot of folks that just "can't be bothered" and like it done for them.

The parachute case is pretty neat too. I am assuming (always a bad sign) that the whole thing opens when you pull the 'rip cord'. So it would be better to have it sitting upright when it is opened?

Nice to see you around again.

Seems to me that packing the reserve 'chute case would be a pain in the fanny. And with my luck I would be wandering though the boonies (or crowded store) and hook the ripcord on something, thereby dumping all of my goodies on the ground/floor. But it would be an eye opener and conversation piece...

I think its a great start too. I personally would second the gerber milk bags. Hell, I'm picking up some more this week...I can send you a few if you like. My brother was stationed at Vincenza a few years back, with the 173rd. Do you have an APO, or an Italian addy? Either way, PM me, let me know if you'd like a few. you can give em a run, see what you think .

Buon Giorno from Italy again!

Ok, I’ve just read some of your comments this morning and so allow me to reply back to some of them.

Someone wrote:

“The parachute case is pretty neat. I am assuming (always a bad sign) that the whole thing opens when you pull the 'rip cord'. So it would be better to have it sitting upright when it is opened?

My reply:

No, not necessarily. There are four flaps with a 5th one on the inside. If you sew the left, right and bottom flap together along the sides, like the way I did mine. You can pull the ripcord handle and have these flaps open up without worrying about the stuff inside falling on the ground.

I also did a little experiment with another para-reserve container by sewing in some Velcro to keep these three sides together. And so I like to use this one for my sleeping gear and I keep inside of it my military poncho liner that I converted into a lightweight sleeping bag, by sewing in a zipper along the sides of it. And I also keep in it a “blow up” pillow, lightweight cheap air mattress and a heavy duty space blanket too, along with a few survival items.

Oh yea, I have another one that I call my “Ranger Rick Emergency Wine Para-Reserve Container." And inside of this one I keep four (4) wine glasses attached to the loops where the parachute lines use to be attached, so when I open it they won’t fall on the ground and break. And also (of course) a bottle of wine with one end of some 550 para-cord tied near the wine bottle’s cork and the other end tied to one of the inside loops.

And so whenever I go to some party, event or to a buddy’s house, I like to wear it around my waist and “pop the ripcord” and out falls the bottle of wine without touching the ground and breaking. I get a lot of laughs out it, especially from Italian strangers or people who don’t know me. (Did you see what that weirdo American has, honey?)

A buddy of mine keeps a bottle of Italian Grappa (hard booze), a set of shot glasses and a bag of peanuts inside his para-reserve. Yea, these make some nice conversation pieces.

Someone wrote:

Seems to me that packing the reserve 'chute case would be a pain in the fanny. And with my luck I would be wandering though the boonies (or crowded store) and hook the ripcord on something, thereby dumping all of my goodies on the ground/floor. But it would be an eye opener and conversation piece...

My reply:

Yea, like I said, they make great conversation pieces. I get a lot of strange stares and weird looks when I use mine as a carrying bag. Sometimes people come up to me and ask “So ,where did you land?”

No, believe it or not, it's really pretty hard to pull out the ripcord handle. I really never knew how hard they were to pull out until I was on a parachute detail as a private in the Army back in 1973. Me and my buddies had to pop open over 300 x parachute reserves so the chutes inside could be inspected and then repacked by the parachute riggers.

We were all making comments and complaining about how hard these damn ripcords are to pull out and hoped to God we never had to pop one while parachuting because we don’t think we could do it. And the sergeant in charge of us said, “Don’t worry, when you start seeing your entire life flashing in front of you as the ground is coming up closer and closer you’ll find the strength, believe me you will.”

So getting back to your comment…no, don’t worry about catching the ripcord handle on anything and accidentally popping it open.



Someone wrote:

I think its a great start too. I personally would second the gerber milk bags. Hell, I'm picking up some more this week...I can send you a few if you like. My brother was stationed at Vincenza a few years back, with the 173rd. Do you have an APO, or an Italian addy?

My reply:

Hey thanks, appreciate the offer, I just need a couple of them stuffed inside an envelope, not a bunch, and you can mail it to:

Ranger Rick Tscherne
US Army Retiree Section
Unit 31401 Box 8075
APO, AE 09630

Thanks again for the offer. Yea, tell your brother the 173rd Abn Bde is still located in Vicenza, I live about 50 miles away from there and go there to do my shopping and pick up my mail about twice a month. The “Herd” will soon be deploying downrange again soon, 3rd time in five years. They are expanding the unit, they just got permission from the Italian Gov’t they can use a second base on the other side of Vicenza where there’s an old military airfield that’s not used anymore.

Anyway, nice chatting with you guys, thanks for your comments and allowing me to reply back.

Hey Chris, thanks for that email you sent me. you’re right, I won’t forget that one, that’s why I’m gonna keep it & use it.

And Doug, the samples are packed and they’ll be shipped off to you on Feb 26th when I go down to the base, let me know when you receive them.

Talk to you guys later,

Army Ranger Rick

Your in the EEC not the US. They might have some difficulty in claiming copyright on "Ranger Rick" especially if you can prove prior use. A small matter of interllectual property I believe.

Are you sure? I am skeptical. This past fall they introduced yet another case (the M Series Case and Lighter) that uses the mini-BIC, it's featured on their site: http://www.bicworld.com/inter_us/lighters/index.asp

That doesn't sound to me like the prelude to eliminating the product given the million of bucks it takes to launch a new product like that to the consumer market. <shrug>

OTOH, crazier things have happened.

I was in the Ranger Rick club back in 1970, and it was fairly well established at that time. Full color glossy magazine, membership cards, the works.

Better that than the Ron Riley Batman Club (radio station WLS in Chicago) that I was forced to join in '65 (we all were, by our D.I.), all we got was a stupid membership card and a sticker. And I HATED Batman...

If I had to make one observation or raise a reservation, it is the knife in the enhanced kit. Serrations are good, but not as the one knife as they aren't as versatile, can't be sharped with found stones (cheap knifes I've found are forgiving in this one regard), and suck with ferro rods in my experience. Rather than quibbling about a <$4 knife, any chance of getting a straight edged version to replace it?

BTW, thanks for the ammo can BBQ on your website. I used one for about half of my cooking one summer in college, and I still carry it my trunk.

Another Buon Giorno from sunny Italy!

Ok, I just work up, I got my cappuccino right here next to my computer and so let’s see what today’s (or yesterday’s) inputs are…

Someone wrote:

If I had to make one observation or raise a reservation, it is the knife in the enhanced kit. Serrations are good, but not as the one knife as they aren't as versatile, can't be sharped with found stones (cheap knifes I've found are forgiving in this one regard), and suck with ferro rods in my experience. Rather than quibbling about a <$4 knife, any chance of getting a straight edged version to replace it?

My reply:

I agree 100% with you, that having a good knife is extremely important but the problem with most people who are or wannabe survivalists, Johnny Rambos, etc. Is that most of them don’t wanna spend a lot of money on a survival kit.

And so when I decided to come up with these SOS Kits, I didn’t go out searching for some cheap “Made in China” stuff but some reasonably priced and good quality products.

And so the knives that come with my survival kits are hellova lot better than what I’ve seen in some other survival kits. Some don’t even come with knives but instead razor blades. And while some survival kits may come with some really good knives, some of the other survival items in these kits may not be the best quality made products, you know what I mean?

I have a buddy who’s a big time knife freak, he’ll spend BIG BUCKS on all sorts of different knives but when it comes to buying other stuff like survival and outdoor gear, he’s a tightwad.

And so in other words, what I am trying to do is please everyone with my kits, the experienced and inexperienced outdoor enthusiasts as well as the tightwads and big spenders too. You know what I mean?

Hey, I’m still learning about this business, and thanks to you guys I’m learning a lot about other products on the market and so that’s one of the reasons why I joined this forum.

Someone asked:

Are you sure? I am skeptical. This past fall they introduced yet another case (the M Series Case and Lighter) that uses the mini-BIC, it's featured on their site: http://www.bicworld.com/inter_us/lighters/index.asp .That doesn't sound to me like the prelude to eliminating the product given the million of bucks it takes to launch a new product like that to the consumer market.

My reply:

I’m retired and live here in Italy and my supplier use to be my Italian wife who use to work for the Defense Commissary Agency (DeCA) on the military base (Vicenza – Italy) before she retired two years ago. And she was the requisition clerk there who did all the product ordering for her store and others too.

And so I use to buy all my mini BIC lighters from her store, I wasn’t able to get any special price or deals just because she worked there, I wish. But for about six months the mini BIC lighers were suddenly being slashed and reduced in price and she didn’t know why, and so I just kept gobbling them up.

Then one day there were no more mini BICs on the store shelves and she tried to order more. But the main DeCA office back in the states told her the BIC company discontinued or was getting ready to discontinue making the mini lighters, and even today here in all the Italian stores they don’t sell anymore. And so I don’t know what to tell you, but if they still sell them back in the states….won’t do me any good. Can’t have them shipped here for hazardous reasons, and on top of that shipping and import fees would be too costly. So either way I would eventually have to discontinue selling them, but I still have about 100 or so left if anyone is interested.

Someone wrote:

Your in the EEC not the US. They might have some difficulty in claiming copyright on "Ranger Rick" especially if you can prove prior use. A small matter of interllectual property I believe.

My reply:

Yea, I thought so too. But they claim they have had a federal trademark on the name since (I believe) 1952? I was born in 1954 and so that cartoon is older than me.

I own absolutely nothing back there in the states, no property, no car, etc. Hell I don’t even have a US driver’s license anymore since Sept 11. My state (PA) wouldn’t allow me to renew it because I don’t own any property or a car back there and therefore have no residency and can’t have a stateside driver license, at least not from PA.

And so yea, it would be kinda hard for that law firm and the US Forestry Service to take me to court and try to sue me. For what? I don’t own anything back there, so what would they get outta me? You know?

But I gotta come back to the states sometimes to see my 80 year old mom and some of my old Army buddies too. And due to computer technology, it would be just my luck as soon as the custom officer typed in my name his computer would tell him I’m on the “most wanted list” for violating the USFS’s Ranger Rick copyright/trademark. You know what I mean? And so I agreed to this compromise.

Ok guys, that’s about it for today, my cappuccino is now finito, and so I gotta go now. Thanks again for your input and for allowing me to post my comments here and see ya all later, take care for now.

I haven't read every work in this thread, so I apologize if this has already been mentioned.

The knife that comes with the necklace can't be a terribly stellar example of cutlery. It's listed as being sold seperately for $3.50. I realize that cost cutting is a part of this offer, but that cut might have been a little too deep (pun intended!)

I can handle Photon Light clones or lesser quality signalling mirrors to save money, if it means the difference between being equipped with something vs. being totally unequipped because you couldn't afford the necklace. My personal feeling is that you can't do this same cost cutting on a knife (at least not all the way down to the $3.50 price point).

I would suggest a basic necklace model without the knife, or an expensive model (probably twice the cost) with a decent knife. Not expensive, just decent. Spydercos are good, and so are a lot of other brands. They all cost more than $3.50 though.

Please take no offense at my suggestion. I just think a cheap knife is more dangerous than any utility that might come from it could justify.

Hi guys & gals, (if there are any here).

Well today here in Italy it's a cloudy day, I haven't had my cappacino yet, ran out of it and so I gotta go down the street to get one. But before I go, let me reply back to someone's latest input & comments.

Someone wrote:

The knife that comes with the necklace can't be a terribly stellar example of cutlery. It's listed as being sold seperately for $3.50. I realize that cost cutting is a part of this offer, but that cut might have been a little too deep (pun intended!)

My Reply:

Survival knives are like cars, guns, computers and women, whatever your taste is and can afford to pay and dish out, is up to you.

The $3.50 price you see listed on my site for that knife is NOT the best quality, but it's NOT the poorest quality knife neither. Beats using some sharpen tin can lid, Fred Flintstone rock knife or a couple of razor blades stuffed inside some really cheapo survival kit, you know? A low cost knife is better than not having any knife at all when you really need one, wouldn't you agree?

Same person wrote:

I can handle Photon Light clones or lesser quality signalling mirrors to save money, if it means the difference between being equipped with something vs. being totally unequipped because you couldn't afford the necklace. My personal feeling is that you can't do this same cost cutting on a knife (at least not all the way down to the $3.50 price point).

My reply:

The reason why I sell these items separately is because I was receiving too many inquiries from people. Too many of them were asking if they could buy one or two things that come with my survival kits instead of buying the whole thing.

And so like I mentioned in my earlier posting, I listen to my customers and so I started selling these items separately. It's what they want and not necessarily what I wanted to do.

And so that price you see listed on my website for that knife, I gotta order a "zillion of them" to get'em at a decent price and to sell them at a fairly decent price. I was originally gonna sell'em for the suggest/recommeded retail price of $5 each, not including shipping.

But after looking over the knife and putting myself in the customers shoes and asking myself... "Would I pay 5 bucks for this knife?" And so the price you see listed is what I think it is worth and what I myself would pay.

Same person wrote:

I would suggest a basic necklace model without the knife, or an expensive model (probably twice the cost) with a decent knife. Not expensive, just decent. Spydercos are good, and so are a lot of other brands. They all cost more than $3.50 though.

My reply:

Like I state on my website, if you were to buy all these same or similar survival items somewhere else you would pay about twice the amount of money and probably more if you added in the shipping & handling charges.

Figure out your saving and you can use that other money that you saved to buy yourself another knife if you're not happy with the one that comes with my survival kits.

Same person wrote:

Please take no offense at my suggestion. I just think a cheap knife is more dangerous than any utility that might come from it could
justify.

My reply:

Hey, no problem, no offense taken at all, I perfectly understand your point. Really! As I state on my website, I, too, own several different types of knives myself and I don't leave home without one of them.

Do I pack & carry the same survival kit that I sell on my website along with that same folding knife?

Yep, I sure do, but along with some other additional survial stuff like some fishing line, hooks, snare wire, etc. Which I'm working on right now to add to future survival kits.

As for carrying that same knife...no, not all the time. Because like most outdoor enthusiasts I, too have a favorite knife that I like to carry with me all the time when I leave home. Which I talk about these knives on my website on my "Paracord Knife" page.

Anyway, again, if it's just the knife that you don't like...then just remove it and carry the one you like. Everyone has their taste and style, some of us like Italian wine and others like German or American beer. The choice & selection is yours.

Okey-dokey?

Ok, I'm dying for an Italian cappaccino, gotta get outta here and go down the street to get one, thanks for your input.

Caio for now!

Before I throw my two cents in... my girl was looking over the shoulder when I was looking at your water carry option. Took me a minute to explain. After that she tells me that probably to save money you have to buy them in bulk and I said yes that's probably it. SO she said that if business in good and you place frequent orders the distributor must think you are quite a stud. LOL. Anyway...

I’ve been lurking at your web site for a long time. Personally I hate stuff dangling around my neck. It has nothing to do with choking just a personal preference. Your safety feature dog tag break away chain is the weakest link and putting all this weight on it may cause you to spill the content all over. Happens all the time with my dog tags after wearing them for a while. Also how does such a big bulk fit if you need to use a chest strap on your pack? Having said that I find your keychain solution an excellent alternative.

I didn't like the small bics. The fire starter you are using now is a very good replacement.

I think that you faced same thing that I did when trying to put together a small commercial first aid kit for sale and it is choosing brand name product vs generic brand products and saving money. I personally in a survival situation wouldn't care if my light is photon or my knife a fancy brand knife as long as that thing is with me. I wouldn’t have any problems walking into the forest with just your kit being pretty confident in the fact that I got my basics on the equipment covered. They may not be my best choices but little knife is better than no knife, fire starter is better than nothing and one led is better than none. I don't like the necklace idea but like other options and between your product and ETS kit thrown together into the pouch and my life vest or a pack I should have multiple angles covered.

OK, I'm back again. I not only had one cappaccino but two, so now I got that "caffine kick" in me.

Someone wrote;

Before I throw my two cents in... my girl was looking over the shoulder when I was looking at your water carry option. Took me a minute to explain. After that she tells me that probably to save money you have to buy them in bulk and I said yes that's probably it. SO she said that if business in good and you place frequent orders the distributor must think you are quite a stud. LOL. Anyway...

My reply:

Yea, good point. But I buy'em from a condom company who make & sell only condoms and not from a local grocery store. And so they are use to people like me buying'em in large quantities.

No, I wouldn't dare buy condoms from a local store here where I live because not only are they a lot more expensive. I would be a bit embarrased to go into a local Italian store here in my little town where everyone knows me. And so I wouldn't want rumors spreading all over the town that I'm a STUD and they can't keep enough condoms on the store shelves here for me.

Not only that, my wife is 60 and so people here would think I'm cheating on her left & right with some younger Italian girls too. Yea, LOL

Condoms have been carried inside military survival kits and used as improvised water containers as far back as 40's, or so I have been told while I was in the military. And almost every commercial survival kit that I've come across also had condoms inside them too. The use of Gerber baby plastic containers are new to me and so I will test them out when I find them or receive some.

Someone wrote:

I’ve been lurking at your web site for a long time. Personally I hate stuff dangling around my neck. It has nothing to do with choking just a personal preference. Your safety feature dog tag break away chain is the weakest link and putting all this weight on it may cause you to spill the content all over. Happens all the time with my dog tags after wearing them for a while.

My reply:

That's why I came up with seveal ways in how you can carry and store these items, as I state on my website not everyone will feel comfortable wearing my SOS Necklace around their neck.

Some will prefer to carry it like a key chain in their pocket and others will like carrying the items inside one of those plastic "Can Keeper" containers and wearing it on their belt. You can then use this container to scoop up water to fill condoms, drink from it like a cup and if it falls off your belt in some water....it'll floats too. At least the experiment that conducted did.

Someone wrote:

Also how does such a big bulk fit if you need to use a chest strap on your pack? Having said that I find your keychain solution an excellent alternative. I didn't like the small bics. The fire starter you are using now is a very good replacement.

My reply:

The reason why a few customers said they didn't like my four-finger-fire starter is because they could not fit their finger inside the split-ring loop and so they had a hard time holding onto it to flick the wheel.

The soluation to this is simple, all you gotta do is place a wooden inside the bottom and you'll be able to hold onto it much firmly. I have small fingers and so I have no problems placing one of my fingers inside the wire loop, and so I can undertand people with big fingers might have problem with it.

It works, just like the sparklite. But now I am convince (but I'll admit I wasn't before) the magnesium fire rod is a better choice. Because if you have problems finding some tinder to ignite, the mag shavings will do the trick and in all types of weather conditions too.

Someone wrote:

I think that you faced same thing that I did when trying to put together a small commercial first aid kit for sale and it is choosing brand name product vs generic brand products and saving money. I personally in a survival situation wouldn't care if my light is photon or my knife a fancy brand knife as long as that thing is with me. I wouldn’t have any problems walking into the forest with just your kit being pretty confident in the fact that I got my basics on the equipment covered. They may not be my best choices but little knife is better than no knife, fire starter is better than nothing and one led is better than none. I don't like the necklace idea but like other options and between your product and ETS kit thrown together into the pouch and my life vest or a pack I should have multiple angles covered.

My reply:

Roger that, there you go, I agree, there's nothing more that I can add to your statment, you said it all.

Thanks, appreciate your input and comments, take care for now.

I still fail to see the problem... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Email from BIC lighters to me on 2/16/07

Dear Mr. Carpenter:

We have received your e-mail regarding BIC(r) Mini Lighters.

Our Lighter Marketing Team has advised us that we are still
manufacturing BIC(r) Mini Lighters and they have not been discontinued.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us and for your interest in our products.

Sincerely,

BIC Consumer Affairs Team
BIC Corporation
Group Corporate - Milford
500 BIC Drive
Milford, CT 06460

Email: CAffairs@bicworld.com