Noobie, first attempt at a BOB and MANY questions.

Hello everyone. This is my first post, although I've already read much of the site and forum messages, so hopefully I won't commit too many faux pas.

I've always been something of a survival nut since I was a teenager (41 now), collecting an item here, an item there... I finally gave myself permission to spend money on a kit after the Kim family tragedy. If it could happen to them... (More shocking then usual as I used to watch James on TechTV several times a week before TechTV collapsed.) As long as I don't go overboard or certifiable I have the wife's permission too. Even convinced her to carry a few items in her commuting car.

This is my second draft of EDC, BOB, around-the-car kit (following). The first draft was ugly beyond words -- I imagined that I had to be prepared for anything and then suddenly I was looking for a bigger bag than the huge duffel I was storing in my SUV. I've been editing and compacting since then.

EDC:

CRKT Kit Carson M16-13ZM Desert Camo folding/locking knife.
HDS Basic 42 LED flashlight (single 123A battery, 42 lumens, GREAT!)
Gerber Clutch tool.
Sony-Ericcson T616 cell phone.
Wallet, keys, Motorola SkyTel alpha pager.

Scattered in various places in my SUV:

Sony DSC-P1 Cybershot camera, spare battery, 128MB memory stick. (This saved my bacon after a serious accident when the pictures proved the other driver was over the line...)
Another CRKT M16 folding knife.
Another Gerber Clutch tool.
Orange Windmill lighter.
Small bottle of Purell.
Streamlight LED headlight.
Pair of leather work gloves.
Roll of duct tape.
Roll of electrical tape.
A strong braided tow-rope in plastic bag.
(4) liter bottles of water.
300W Tripp-Lite inverter.
(2) packs of (2) N95 face masks.
15" prybar.
Set of heavy duty battery jumper cables.
Ikea blue 8'x10' tarp, plus most of another one I've had to cut pieces from.
The truck came with a pretty comprehensive FAK, but I added a small bottle of Aleve, a tube of Neosporin, Immodium, Benedryl and Dramamine tablets and one of my son's asthma inhalers. I also put a lightstick in with it just "because".
A handful of zip ties and several trashbags and Zip-loc bags, in another Zip-loc bag.
(2) rolls of paper towels.

In an old school backpack, compressed with a bungie cord wrapped around it:

Doan magnesium/flint firestarter.
Old plastic whistle on chain.
Old Boy-Scout lensatic compass.
2 packs of (2) hand warmers.
"U-Dig-It" tool in sheath.
A small bottle of KI tablets. (Probably should put these in the FAK.)
AMK Emergency Bivvy meant to replace a mylar Emergency Blanket, but I left both in there.
Another asthma inhaler. When he needs it, he *really* needs it.
Inova X5 flashlight in belt sheath, with six spare 123A batteries. (Overkill?)
Katadyn Exstream XR water purifier liter bottle, with 4-5 Cyalume white lightsticks inside to prevent them from being inadvertantly flexed.
About 20 waterproof matches and striker in an old o-ringed plastic beach necklace bottle..
A folding/locking 8" saw I picked up at Home Depot.
1 25 oz bottle of Ben's 100Max insect repellent in a Zio-loc bag.
(2) North Face Polartec Classic 200 beanie hats
(2) new pair of large outdoors wool socks.
A Zip-loc bag with Splenda packets, teabags, a handful of Crystal Light "On The Go" lemonade liter water-bottle packets, a motel-sized bar of soap. (2) tiny bottles of Tabasco and some pepper.
50' of 550 paracord.
Another bunch of zip-ties.
A red flashing emergency strobe light. (See http://www.bestglide.com/MPI_Strobe_Info.html )
(5) MREs, just the main food packet, assorted.
Garmin eTrex Vista GPS with lithium batteries.
DuraPro hand crank LED light and AM/FM radio.

What I know I don't have but should get:

Water purifier pills in watertight bottle.
Signal mirror.
Tinder for firestarting.
ACE bandage.
Sunglasses. (I have thick prescription glasses so I would need something like goggles that could go over regular glasses.)
A very small FAK to EDC.
Pen and paper.
A small camp stove and a small pot/stainless steel cup/mess kit for heating water and MREs?

Now on to the questions:

1. Are the Columbia River AutoLAWKS knives good enough, or should I save money towards Doug Ritter's Mark 1 knives? And is it just me, or is everyone experiencing security-guard freak-outs when they learn I'm carrying a pocket knife?

2. How many spare batteries is too many?

3. There's myself, and what I should carry for saving myself. And then there is the wife, the two young boys and possibly the mother-in-law. How much stuff is enough, and how do you plan for the possibility of having to protect an extended group in a BOB? For instance with my first attempt at setting the kit up, I had put (15) MRE main-meal envelopes in the duffel bag. That might be overkill... Is one emergency bivvy enough, or should I have two, or enough for everyone?

4. I'm directly east of and in the suburbs of Washington, DC. Hence the KI tablets and the face masks. Anything else I should have (besides a helicopter and pilot to whisk me out of here...)

5. Anybody ever have a BOB stored in the back of their car or truck stolen by thieves who thought they'd get something better? What do you do to protect your kit?

6. My SUV is diesel-powered, so I have a yellow five-gallon CARB diesel gas can in my garage, to throw in the truck if we have to bug-out. I've already read the various forum posts on storing extra gas to take with us if there's the chance of being caught in a traffic jam. I'm looking at roof-top basket racks to hold it. How would you lash it down to a roof rack basket if it didn't have welded gas can brackets on it already?

6. Should I wrap the magnesium/flint firestarter in something plastic to prevent inadvertant scratches from rubbing against othermetal in the bag or pocket from causing a problem?

7. Considering I live outside of DC in central Maryland, some of this is ridiculous, right? No Oregon mountain BLM roads around here and we rarely leave a suburban environment. Or is that the point -- it's when you do something unusual that something happens? Or is it better not to try to explain to unenlightend people and just let them think I'm nutty?

8. Any chance we'll see GPS-equipped PLB's come down to the $100 level in the near future? I remember when GPS units were much more expensive, but they've come way-down in price too.

9. Does anyone pack a snake-bite kit anymore, or is that old-school? Also, the QuikClot products and an epinephrine injector sounds useful, although expensive. How do you buy these things without a doctor's prescription?

Thanks in advance for the advice. I've been geeking out on reading your posts for the last several weeks. -Gary

Welcome! I don't have the time right now to really read your list, or comment on it, but I have no doubt that in no time at all you will have more comments than you can handle...

I can't comment on to much of that myself (as I feel I'm not qualified to). But I do know you can get Quickclot and ACTCEL through BrigadeQuartermaster (actiongear.com) over the counter.

I would recommend ACTCEL over Quickclot unless we are talking about massive tramatic wounds like gun shots. Then QuickClot and a pressure dressing are the way to go.

Checking out actiongear.com now, thanks.

I've been your typical computer desk jockey most of my life, but I'm thinking my boys and I should go camping this spring, just so we can try out some of these things... Fun! And then (sadly) becoming prime candidates for *needing* them...

If we do this I -will- be renting a PLB. -Gary

Only have a chance to do a fast look over during lunch, but I saw one big thing- KI tablets. They are only useful as a pre-exposure treatment, and it takes several days to have the full effect. And you can only take them for a relatively short period of time, if you took them every day you'd be in bad shape in a month of so. Long story short, unless you KNOW when the nuke is going to go off, they aren't worth squat other than psychologically. And if you know, I know people who would like to talk to you before hand.

QuikClot is good if used properly, but it isn't idiot proof. Something like Bleed-X is a better choice, as there is not exothermal reaction. Using QuickClot inappropriately is a good way to add 1st and possibly even 2nd degree burns to the wound, while Bleed-X and the shrimp stuff doesn't have that risk. Go back throught the past week of postings, and you'll see threads about both products.

If you have that many people, you are probably better off with a tent.

Skip the splenda- calories=survival. Use sugar. You might want to put the soap in another bag, or your tea will taste like soap.

In the nice to have, a charcoal or resin based water filter or a reverse osmosis rig.

I didn't see rain gear, or work gloves.

No problem and have fun this spring.

Just remember to use your head. Most survival situations are self inflicted, a little brain power goes a long way to keeping you out of trouble in the first place.

You might also want to look in outdoor schools like NOLS, or check the net for outdoors clubs in your area. The fastest, safest, way to ride the learning curve is to have somebody teach/help you. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Regarding the KI tablets--let's not be so hasty to judge without asking what they're for. For a Three Mile Island type incident, then that's a legitimate use for them. (I think there's a nuclear power plant in that vicinity, isn't there?) However, for a nuke or dirty bomb, then you're right, Ironraven, they won't help.

Welcome, Digimark! You must've put a lot of time and effort into that first post. Boy, where to begin...

Actually, I'm curious about your pager. (Regular folk still use pagers?) Is that a two-way pager? I used to carry a regular one-way pager long after all of my friends got cell phones, so I have a fondness for them. But I gave mine up a number of years ago.

Welcome aboard!

Some thoughts: I'd EDC another inhaler (or two). Cheap insurance.
From a utility standpoint, add a sanitary napkin to your FAK -- cheap and stops blood loss. I'd echo adding rain/ cold jackets.*

All that being said, you're more likely to' bug in' in most emergencies, are you preparing for that?

Teacher

(* fleece for eveyone.)

Regarding the six CR123a's and whether that's overkill. Well, for one thing, six CR123a's take up very little space in a vehicle kit, so that's not good a reason to pare them down. If solely for use with the X5, then that's a good long time and I can see you might think it's overkill. But here's another angle. Your B42 can only run on its highest setting for what? Like 20 minutes? If you need bright light for more than 20 minutes, then your only option is to keep putting fresh cells into the B42, so from that perspective, six extra cells isn't overkill.

I don't see any mention of extra batteries for your headlight.

The only difference between the LAWKS that is on your CRKT's and the new AutoLAWKS is that it is spring loaded to engage any time the knife is opened. I have one of them. They lock up solid and the liner lock CAN'T unlock until you operate the lever.

1. Are the Columbia River AutoLAWKS knives good enough, or should I save money towards Doug Ritter's Mark 1 knives? And is it just me, or is everyone experiencing security-guard freak-outs when they learn I'm carrying a pocket knife?

A - Any knife is much better than no knife at all, but Doug's knives are wonderful and worth it.

2. How many spare batteries is too many?

A - They're pretty small and light. I'd certainly bring at least one extra set, if not two or more, especially in a car.

3. There's myself, and what I should carry for saving myself. And then there is the wife, the two young boys and possibly the mother-in-law. How much stuff is enough, and how do you plan for the possibility of having to protect an extended group in a BOB? For instance with my first attempt at setting the kit up, I had put (15) MRE main-meal envelopes in the duffel bag. That might be overkill... Is one emergency bivvy enough, or should I have two, or enough for everyone?

A - your shelter will need to accomidate everyone in your party, but then again your vehicle might be a shelter too.

5. Anybody ever have a BOB stored in the back of their car or truck stolen by thieves who thought they'd get something better? What do you do to protect your kit?

You might put it in one of those small black plastic Rubbermaid tubs with the clip-on tops sold at Walmart. The black color hides it from view a bit.

6. My SUV is diesel-powered, so I have a yellow five-gallon CARB diesel gas can in my garage, to throw in the truck if we have to bug-out. I've already read the various forum posts on storing extra gas to take with us if there's the chance of being caught in a traffic jam. I'm looking at roof-top basket racks to hold it. How would you lash it down to a roof rack basket if it didn't have welded gas can brackets on it already?

A - Rope. I have a diesel tractor, so I have to haul the fuel in those 5 gallon plastic cans. I bought a large Rubbermade tub that can fit two cans side by side. This helps prevent them from flipping over on the short side and limits the junk on the bottom from "infecting" my SUV.

6. Should I wrap the magnesium/flint firestarter in something plastic to prevent inadvertant scratches from rubbing against othermetal in the bag or pocket from causing a problem?

A - I wouldn't worry about it. I'd be more likely to put it in a little snack bag to protect other items from it - not so much as to prevent sparking. BTW, I much prefer the Magfire type sparkers to the Doan's one.

7. Considering I live outside of DC in central Maryland, some of this is ridiculous, right? No Oregon mountain BLM roads around here and we rarely leave a suburban environment. Or is that the point -- it's when you do something unusual that something happens? Or is it better not to try to explain to unenlightend people and just let them think I'm nutty?

A - I have a bag that can go into my truck if I'm going outside my normal commute (in the Chicago suburbs). I don't leave it in my truck all the time.

8. Any chance we'll see GPS-equipped PLB's come down to the $100 level in the near future? I remember when GPS units were much more expensive, but they've come way-down in price too.

A - Not likely at all. You're barely seeing $100 GPS's right now. The PLB makers have to make a product that is much tougher than a GPS (in an environment that is more akin to automotive standards than a typical GPS - high temps, vibration, etc...) that has to be able to sit for years unused, but have a very high chance of functioning when needed. Just the fact that is is clearly a safety item means the manufacturer inherents some liability if something goes wrong - there is a price for that liability.

9. Does anyone pack a snake-bite kit anymore, or is that old-school? Also, the QuikClot products and an epinephrine injector sounds useful, although expensive. How do you buy these things without a doctor's prescription?

A - Skip the snake-bite kit. These days the recommendation is to get as good a look at the snake as possible and get the victim to treatment ASAP. The cut & suck thing is ancient history. Even the Sawyer Extractor's effecacy - for insect & snake bites - is up for debate. Some say if it is applied almost immediately it may help. It doesn't look like it could do any harm.

Digimark:

I use the following categories, derived from the rule of threes.

Medical
Shelter
Fire
Signals
Water
Food
Tools

So I sorted your lists into those categories, and did a casual examination. The few things I'd suggest are:

In the shelter group, you could add a fleece or velour sleeping bag or blanket. Just seems right in the vehicle for a multitude of applications, including treating accident victims for shock. (Make it cheapish so you won't mind giving it away to someone.)

Also in the shelter group, I was thinking about having to hunker down under your tarp in the winter. (I live in Florida, so I'm not too concerned about cold weather.) You could add a couple of closed cell foam pads to keep you warm underneath. You could cut them to size and store them flat. They can also be used to improvise splints.

In the Tools group, I think you'd enjoy having a Frosts or Mora fixed blade knife. They're inexpensive, and will do most anything that a more expensive knife will do.

I carry a roll of mason's twine in my trunk for the multitude of odd jobs that don't warrant paracord.

Aside from those ideas, nothing seemed missing from your lineup.

I would go ahead and get a pot of some kind for cooking, boiling water, digging, fetching water, etc. If you get an MSR Stowaway pot, you'll have a locking container for part of your kit, plus a pot with its own handle.

For stoves, I really like Trangias -- of any model. You can get a similar deal in used Swedish army gear, but just now I'd avoid the used ones available at Sportsman's Guide. I've tried my luck several times, and they're always very heavily used and generally damaged.

Means you have to carry a small supply of alcohol (methanol or ethanol) with you, but for convenience and a clean fire, it's hard to beat.

None of these suggestions are especially well thought out -- just my casual ovservations and ideas.

Bear

Gary -

Nice beginning. You do realize your list will forever remain a work in progress ... right? You're finding out ... a good excuse for 'gear acquisition.'

Since you have two young lads, you may wish to consider adding some small-to-pack items that you know will entertain/keep them occupied. You'll appreciate having these kinds of things should you find yourself needing to focus your undivided efforts on the situation at hand.

Dan

Whilst loading up the truck to head to Mississippi post Katrina, I carried 21 gallons on the roof rack. I have a Yakima Basketcase up there, which has a solid bottom to it. It's small, but good for bungee cording things to.



One thing that came to mind while convoying out, was that we were dragging all this unprotected stuff into a disaster area. So we stopped and got locking cables. Those got strung through the gas can handles.

Welcome aboard!! You are certainly off to a good start!

I advise that you identify the threats that you are facing. Then separate those into "likely" and "not so likely" groups.
Out of the "likely" list, select the most serious of them AND prepare for that, which means you will be fairly well prepared for all of the others that are "likely".

Block acquisitions result in block obsolescence, so buy a little along the way and this becomes an affordable habit.

Read "Nuclear War Survival Skills"-Chapter 4 Evacuations, Put it in a search engine & it will come right up.

Learn to gather information. I personally maintain files on all of the 50 states and some foreign countries. This info consists of tourist packages (hotels, restaurants, etc), newspaper articles (mostly dealing with geography, topographics), military (bases & stations locations, units assigned), every kind of map or chart, state and national parks/forests, etc.

Actually, and physically, write up practical contingency plans AND make sure that your spouse knows where they are located and when to read and follow those plans (when you're not home).

6P's: Proper Planning Prevents [censored]-Poor Performance. Above all, proper planning provides more options in emergencies.

Everyone -- sorry again for the long message. I usually run on at the keystrokes...

ironraven --

I didn't know that KI tabs have to be taken days before the problem. It says to me that I should leave them in my cabinet at home. It's still tough to know I'm in the wind pattern for DC though.

I'm certain that I don't know enough first aid to know when/how to use QuickClot, so its probably better if I skip it for now. I'll look at Bleed-X, but I suspect it will be the same conclusion. What is the "shrimp stuff"?

I'll probably keep the Splenda -- being able to pull a couple of packets out for someone's coffee when they forget it seems to make a good justification for having the rest of the stuff. 8-) "See honey, if I have your sweetener when you needed it, then the JetBoil stove and $1600 desalinator will be just as useful..."

I have two emergency ponchos and a pair of work gloves in the pack.

Meline --

I took a look at nols.edu-- that may be way beyond my interest anytime soon. Although it would be fun to tell people, "yup, going to go mountaineering in Patagonia." I will check out local clubs though. I've only been camping once in my life, when I was in Cub Scouts for a year and my brother and I went to a three day Jamboree. I'm betting that wasn't exactly the same thing. But I don't want my sons to grow up the same way I did. It would be nice to see them build their own fire and know they can.

Arney --

The Calvert Cliffs NPP is south-east of me in Calvert County, about 37 miles. (Thank you Google Earth.) And further away north of us is TMI near Harrisburg. I think there's another NPP in southern Virginia too. But the wind patterns from those plants don't go our way. If the rumors about a reactor under the Pentagon are true, that's another story.

I'm a computer systems and network manager by career and I receive sentinel-type alerts from critical infrastructure machinery on an alpha pager. (A Motorola Talkabout two-way through SkyTel.) I'd love to have the messages route to my cell phone so I can stop carrying the pager, but it has the advantage of being two independent ways to reach me in an emergency, which happens often enough. It occurs to me that there is a parallel between the constant what-if planning I do for my networks and the what-if planning we do for these BOBs...

The Streamlight headlight takes three AAAs. I haven't really thought about extra batteries for it. More lithiums...

Teacher --

Adding the sanitary napkin. Apart from other possible uses I guess you never know when someone's time-of-the-month will coincide with disaster. Would probably make good tinder for the fire. 8-)

Asthma is scary scary stuff when you see your son struggling for breath.

Regarding rain/cold jackets -- I guess I'm taking as a baseline that the people in the car will be dressed appropriately, plus we'll stay with the car if that question comes up. I am beginning to wonder whether it would make sense to carry a change of clothes - more often than an emergency I might need to swap a coffee-covered shirt or a ripped pair of pants. It seems easy to give into mission creep -- what is this kit designed for?

I could fill another forum with all the stuff I keep at home for stay-in-place evac.

NightHiker --

I read one forum posting where the suggestion was made to write the kit date on a piece of tape and stick it to the bag, then check the contents and maintain them on a regular basis. Seems like good advice.

Good to hear about the CRKT knives. They seem pretty good to me, but I still second-guess myself regularly.

I'm keeping the batteries as long as they are lithium and don't get zapped by the cold. The HDS light takes one and the Inova takes two, so this gives me two complete replacements. (I've been collecting LED flashlights and I also have a Surefire L1 and L6, so lots of 123A-needing devices...)

UTAluminus --

The two CRKT knives I'm using have the AutoLAWKS feature, and I'm glad of it. I cut myself once (not badly) on a folding boy scout knife I had once, and remain leery ever since. Thanks for the confirmation.

KenK --

I'm pretty much assuming we'll have the car available to us. This lets me scatter some of the supplies to other pockets in the car. But the backpack I'm using for my kit is big enough that if I had to collect everything together and leave the car, I could. If we go camping I plan to repack a subset of everything anyway, then put it back afterwards.

Good advice about the tub -- checking into it. Should make it easier to move the contents around too. I'll pass on the snake-bite kit too,

dchinell --

Interesting way to group the stuff. Like a Chinese menu, pick at least one from each category. I'm resisting putting a sleeping bag in the back though. At this rate there won't be any room back there to carry everyday stuff.

(I just remembered I keep a blanket back there already. So I'm already following your advice...)

Regarding fixed blades -- is it expected that you can really split wood for fires with these blades? It seems like that would be crazy, no matter how good they are. And what are you supposed to use as a hammer?

I don't know how to properly sharpen a knife, but a small knife sharpener might be something to add to the kit.

The MSR pot seems like a good pot. And I looked at various Trangia reviews... but I'm still leaning towards a JetBoil with the larger pot. More money but it seems more reliable and less hassle when you need it. Something like a JetBoil might be useful for real camping too. (With all this kit, I could throw in a tent, a few sleeping bags, some clothes and a toothbrush and be ready to go!) Anyone with JetBoil experience who can tell me what its like to use one?

xbanker --

It seems like we should add an "Entertainment" category to dchinell's list. I think they're too young at this point to know what to do with a pack of playing cards. I'll keep my eyes open for more ideas.

There's a five-dice game called "Cosmic Wimpout" that my wife and I play. It packs into a small tube and doesn't require paper or pen. It's really fun and easy to play -- that's a starting point. The five-year-old will probably be the tougher one to manage. What did the Kim's do with their four-year-old for a week and a half?

beadles --

That picture is awesome. Did all that stuff stay on at highway speeds? I'm leaning towards a Thule Rapid Crossroad rack and 696 Xpedition basket, so we'd have something similar, although I don't know what kind of floor the Thule basket has.

Adding locking cables to the list...

Wildman --

Thank you for the advice. It was a long time ago, but I used to be certified by the government to run a radiological shelter (took a class through my ham radio club) and was totally into the civil defense thing as a hobby. I was in the CIvil Air Patrol as a teenager too. I think I might have read those books then -- thanks for reminding me. I'm digging them back out. You'd think I'd remember some of that training and experience, but it's been 25 years...

-Gary

It seems to me that, having done as much as you have already, you are in better shape than most to weather the unexpected.

I'm no expert but, looking at your list, I do have a few thoughts, FWIW:

Tools:
I think you need to beef up your contingent of tools. These will allow you to do basic repairs, harvest materials that happen to be at hand, and turn "junk" into things you can use. I'd suggest:
- a Leatherman or other multi-tool (or some 8" needle nose pliers); the miniature Gerbers just aren't enough, in my experience (great briefcase items, though)
- Vise-grips (with the heavy-duty wire/bolt cutters) are the maid of all work; 5" is useful and compact, 7" can handle most jobs, 10" is the undisputed Chairman of the Board; avoid imitation brands
- an 8" crescent wrench and/or a small pipe wrench (one wrench is like one hand clapping)
- heavy duty flat screwdriver (light prybar, chisel, scraper, screwdriver; use this for abusive jobs and spare your knife for cutting)
- if you can afford the weight: a light axe with sheath (I prefer a minimum 24"), both for cutting and hammering/demolition; fiberglass handles are heavier but take a lot more more abuse
- a good 8" file, for sharpening, shaping, repairing
- multi-bit screwdriver with every bit known to Man
- hacksaw or reciprocating saw blades (metal cutting, but also cuts plastic, copper, wood, wire, fabric)
- a handful of assorted nails, self-tapping metal screws, wood screws
- some solid mild steel wire, and some braided automotive copper wire
- needle and thread, for rough-and-ready repairs to or improvising of clothing etc.; I have mostly used them to repair zippers, gloves and boots

Reference Materials:
- survival reference book, including info on "survival psychology" and "keeping yourself out of survival situations"
- first aid reference book, or better, a wilderness extended first aid book (guidance that assumes you may be on your own for a number of days)

Pots:
- every kit outside your pockets should have some metal container that you can boil water in
- a well-washed coffee tin is better than nothing, at least to melt snow or boil water, and it's free
- a big, tough, single-wall stainless steel cup is (I think) the minimum in each backpack or large fanny pack
- a 2-quart or larger stainless steel pot is a necessity in a larger kit; don't worry about a fancy camping one, you can get a serviceable item just about anywhere, including a thrift store; add a handful of stainless steel soup spoons too

Firestarters:
- you could do worse than to lay in a fistful of good quality candles, both for firestarting and raising spirits in troubled times

Stove:
- If you're thinking of adding a camp stove, consider getting one that will use the fuel you have at hand or can get easily (i.e., unleaded gasoline or diesel fuel). Multi-fuel mountaineering stoves such as the MSR XGK can digest just about any fuel (don't expect to do a lot of fancy simmering on these blowtorches, though). Mine is ten years old and going strong; and tune-up kits are available everywhere. Take some time to get to know it; it's not as simple to light as a propane stove.

Entertainment:
- 2 packs of cards will do a lot for morale for adults ("I'll see your Brooklyn Bridge, and raise you an Eiffel Tower!") and keep the kids from driving you crazy because they're bored and out-of-sorts (War, Crazy 8's, etc.)

Best of luck!

Got one in my truck 72hr kit. I don't have the experience to compare it to anything else, but I'm loving it. it is super fast. Still want a separate cup, though, just to keep the jetboil clean.



Oh yeah. Enough bungees will hold anything. I do recommend getting some of the bungees that are adjustable in lenth, and several long heavy duty ones.

My plan for my next vehicle is a pickup with a camper shell, with another rack & basket on top. I can't find any larger baskets I like, so I may wind up custom making something.

I've also got a couple of the older models. I wouldn't go back for anything.

According to "Nuclear War Survival Skills" published by Oak Ridge National Lab. Potassium and iodine salts taken 1/2 hour to 1 day before EXPOSURE to the radioactive fallout will protect the thyroid from 99% of radioactive iodine exposure. (each Iodine dose is only an effective blocker for 1 day)

This is very informative. The modified guidelines for Iodine use after Chernobyl. The conclusions section at the end is worth a read.
http://www.fda.gov/cder/guidance/4825fnl.htm

The Iodide or Iodate needs only be taken until you are no longer exposed to the radioactive Iodine, in most cases 30 days from a single non continuing event, or until you move from the contaminated area which ever is sooner. If you are exposed to radiation for longer than that, the possible sidefects of the Iodide etc is the least of your worries. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Radioactive iodine damage is accumulative and so even if you take the iodide as you are exposed it will limit the damage to your thyroid. The FDA say it may still be protective if taken 3 to 4 hours after the fallout cloud passes over.

I think it is a very good precaution to have the iodide tablets in your kit, and remember that after a blast you are exposed to gama radiation immediately (if you are in line of sight) and then the fallout can come hours or days later, depending on how far you are from the blast site. Fallout is dust that has been made radioactive by the blast and is falling out of the air from where it has been blown or blasted, and so moves with the weather systems. Rain will cause it to be washed out of the sky to a great extent.

Also remember that if you are preparing for a nuclear strile of some kind, any sensitive electronic backup equipment should be stored inside a metal ammo box in a plastic or insulating container, or it may be damaged by any potential Electro Magnetic Pulse.


Good job on your BOB it looks like you have thought it out well.


Macgyver.

I would really question the use of the Oak Ridge documents- after all they with the CD gave us Duck-And-Cover and "Six feet for survival." *chuckle* They also suggested using the elderly as the first line of rebuilding in the case of a nuclear exchange, never mind the fact that are generally not the best rebuilders due to loss of bone and muscle mass. Put a gun to the head of the guy who came up with that and he'll probably admit it was a forced triage measure in disguise.

The Chernobyl documents are the best out there, but I also know there are a number of endocrinologists who question how long it takes for the protection to be fully effective, particularly when you have other radioisotopes in your system. That's part of why I asked about rain gear- it isn't perfect, but with a good pair of goggles and a mask, it will protect you from the worst of the alpha and beta particles while you head for shelter, but remember to decontaminate. Heck, that's part of why I always carry ear plugs with me!

Evaguation, shelter, and management of food and water supplies will help just as much as KI will, but in a systemic rather than specific manner.

My last word on the topic.

Quoting Doug

"
Reference Materials:
- survival reference book, including info on "survival psychology" and "keeping yourself out of survival situations"
- first aid reference book, or better, a wilderness extended first aid book (guidance that assumes you may be on your own for a number of days)

-- Great idea.

'Pots:
- every kit outside your pockets should have some metal container that you can boil water in
- a well-washed coffee tin is better than nothing, at least to melt snow or boil water, and it's free
- a big, tough, single-wall stainless steel cup is (I think) the minimum in each backpack or large fanny pack'


Teacher here -- agreed on both points -- pack reference books and containers* to boil water in. I've started adding a metal mug or pot to each of the bigger kits.

TRO

(* see BIG MUG post else where

Iron Raven, You make some good points. Many people think that the KI is protection from radiation and do not realise that the other things you mentioned are very important. I found it interesting that the chernobyl contamination was largely internal, ie. from eating contaminated foods and breathing contaminated particles. The FDA thought that was surprising also.

It may be debatable as to how long the KI takes to become effective, but according to the Chernobyl papers it did help to block damage to the thyroid anyway, so it is at least partially effective and I think perhaps much better than none at all. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> It is much more effective to not be there at all! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have a quantity of it, I beleive it is Lugols Formula, as a just in case thing. Naturally, I would be taking your advice and doing all the other things, and getting out of the area as quickly as possible.

As an emergency measure it is important I think for people who plan to use it to do the research, and also have the recommended dosage information with it as well as having a list of side effect symptoms that would be danger signs.

Macgyver.

Ingestion was a surprise that shouldn't have been. Along with iodine, milk and greens both concentrate strontium-90 and a couple of others. That they were tracing I-131 exposure to milk, and not so much Sr-90 was the surprise to me, because Sr-90 in milk is a text book issue due to the Sr's love of Ca. Standard precautions against exposure to fallout, along with decontamination and runoff containment, were not as well followed as they should have been. At least not according to what I've read.

Dan,

Welcome back!

Are you involved with the Boy Scouts? There is going to be a Webelos crossover in your park April 6th. Are you going to be there?

Thanks!