Missing Climbers on Oregon's Mount Hood

The three men were experienced but none had ever climbed Mt. Hood before. Any thoughts?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,235824,00.html

fixed link

That is virtually no information.
Now is the time to be saying prayers to the deity of your belief for the men to be found ALIVE.
Keep in mind that sometimes, despite the best plans of mice and men, things happen. Like John Wayne said in his last movie, " you got to watch out for the third eye!"

What does that mean? What is "minimal gear" for two nights on Mt Hood in December? For me minimal this time of year at 11KFT is still a lot of gear. Were these guys going ultralight? Hope their skills are up to it and they can hold out.

I think "minimal gear", as far as climbing goes, means the following; bivy sack, sit pad, water bottle, a LITTLE food, maybe one stove between them, a thermos, and probably an insulation jacket of some sort. They MAY have a sleeping bag between them (normal, just in case stuff). Thats what we used to carry for lightning summits. Very light; survival (or success) depended on speed.

Found another story on CNN telling of their having had little survival gear:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/12/missing.climbers.ap/index.html

This story won't end fatally I will bet. Just a hunch. Hopefully he will be rescued today.

When will people learn? The outdoors should never be taken lightly. Yes it should be enjoyed. But it should also be respected. In the wilderness, unpredictability rules. Weather conditions change, alternate routes have to be taken, etc. They all need to learn to always be prepared for the worst. We all here on this site know this, but how many more senseless tragedies must they watch unfold in the media untill they learn this valuable lesson?

Seems like every year some climbers meet their fate on Mt. Hood. Hopefully this story has a happy ending...

1. "Nothing bad will ever happen to ME."

2. "If something does happen, someone will always come to rescue us."
<img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Sue

I live at the base of Mount Hood. I have worked, played, and hunted on both Mt Hood and Mt Adams as well as many other Cascade mountains for over thirty six years. The forecast for Mt Hood last night was for sustained winds of between 55 and 85 miles an hour with higher gusts. Temperatures were expected in the mid twenties. Wind chill would cause instant frostbite. They were also forecasting one to two feet of more snow. Winds where I am are very strong and we have had rain all night and mostly all day.

Mt Hood is one of those Cascade Mountains that many climbers both experienced and green horns have successfully climbed all year long. However, when conditions are bad, blizzard conditions can last a week or more. The main problem with these mountains is that the weather is controlled by the Pacific Ocean. You always have to be prepared to be wet and it can go from blizzard to flood instantly. They just opened Highway 35 last week from massive flooding caused by glacier melting on Mt Hood. That flood changed the coarse of the White River and covered the bridge over the White River with ten feet of boulders the size of automobiles

These guys need a lot of luck, skill, and equipment to survive.

"...someone will always come to rescue us..."

Yup.

While I hope that these guys are found alive and well, the fact that most climbers do this mountain in the summer (or so I have read), and they chose to do it in Dec, lightly equipped to boot, thereby putting dozens of rescuers at risk, borders on the criminal. At least in my opinion...

'...thereby putting dozens of rescuers at risk, borders on the criminal.'

Hmmm, yes, that's what I was thinking also. They have/had 45 search parties out, all experts in snow/ice, and one helicopter. They are putting these people in jeopardy by their foolish actions.

The last I heard, the one who called home from a snow cave is not responding. The others have not been found where they were supposed to be, so they are either lost or buried out of sight.

These guys are supposed to be very experience, know survival techniques, but are traveling lightly equipped in winter. I guess you can be experienced, but not very smart.

Sue

It is a real mountain. You can't take it for granted. Many years ago one of my friends was one of only a handful that survived a school climb when near a score perished
on Mt Hood.
Even the rescuers going in and knowing the conditions of the storm (-50F
windchill) couldn't wear enough clothes and had to hole up.

To be critical
of the climbers at this stage seems to me talking in ignorance.

Fast and
light is often safer in mountaineering. If the climbers managed a good
snow cave they could be safe for days, though the north side is technical
ice and rescuers will have a tough time getting close without good weather.

I really can't judge these climbers, but considering they ARE experienced, climbing Mt. HOOD, climbing IN DECEMBER, climbing in the YEAR 2006, I think I would have invested less than $500 in a PLB before I went on that "trapse."

In those kind of weather conditions or when there is potential for them, it should now be the norm to have a PLB. Cost, though, one might say. Well, when it's that dangerous and you can put so many more people at risk like is happening in this situation now, it should be said "If you can't afford the PLB, you can't afford the climb" when the weather is bad or can get bad.

Sometimes fast and light means increased risks. Sometimes, if not always...

People sometimes go "uh?" when they see me add my two-sided (one reflective) heavy-duty 6"x10" tarp in my daypack when i'm getting ready to go hiking or snowshoeing. But I am convinced that carrying that "heavy" item (by some people's standard) might come in very handy one day, or even save my life. This weekend, I was on a snowshoeing trip and the winds were so strong above the treeline, I can easily see how a leg injury could turn into a nightmare for unequipped people.

Bring all the gear you feel necessary to keep yourself safe, and don't bother saving a few pounds... unless you have a very weak back or chronic leg problems !

My personal experience has been that if I pack for all reasonable scenarios ('cause Mr. (Colonel) Murphy is never far away), I have rarely had cause to use the equipment. Which breeds complacency and has me doubting the wisdom of lugging around all of this weight. Then I remember, if I don't have it, I'LL NEED IT!
Proper Planning Prevents [censored] Poor Performance - the 6 P's have never failed me.

December is one of the safer months to attempt Hood from the north. Better
ice, less rock fall.
And you are required by law on that climb to have either a cell phone
or a PLB.

Maybe they had both.

You couldn't carry enough gear to insure your safety when doing that type of climb. Having a PLB may do no good if rescuers can't
survive trying getting to you or if you are buried in an avalanche and
can't set it off.

And having a PLB may be calling some rescuer to their death. Some climbers want to get themselves out of trouble and want nothing to do
with rescue parties.

You may argue that mountaineering itself is foolish. I would hope you
wouldn't say it should be illegal.

The climbers should know the risks and make their own decisions (as should the searchers, they are not conscripts either, most are volunteers who also do similar climbs, if not, they shouldn't be there trying to help).

The bottom line is the weather there can be bad enough that one can't
survive in the open no matter your gear. There are objective hazards
and subjective hazards in mountaineering. You can't control the
objective ones.

Gee, don't tempt me. No, I don't condemn mountaineering. Some areas at some times of the year should be even more restricted though. The point is, there is a blizzard right now regardless of whether December is one of the safer months or not to "attempt Hood from the north." I guess I really look at these three poor guys as victims more than anything else. Victims of the government not passing laws enforcing stricter guidelines due to past lessons that cannot seem to be learned. Regardless of the rescuers knowing the risks they take they should not have to volunteer to be put in harm's way. The risk should not have existed in the first place for them, period.

Can you spell "Climber's License?" (guess you can now since I typed it) Enough tax dollars seen being spent on these type searches and some U.S. Congressman might just get a wild hair. It could happen in this day and age, believe me. Some broad new test and license with a big fee could be imposed in addition to anything that already exists.

I just pray that God will bring them down safely.

Can you spell "Personal Responsibility?"

Those climbers new the risks when they went up there. They were/are doing what they loved to do. They chose whatever preparations they made and what equipment they took, balanced against the risks involved. If, heaven forbid, they don't make it, it was THEIR fault.

It is not the government's job to assume responsibility for everyone's actions, who are they to decide what is appropriate for us as individuals.

We are all here because we have chosen to take responsibility for ourselves and our families well-being. The last thing we need is for the government to butt their noses in.

Greg

Hmmm. Well, poor diet kills more people each year than blizzards. Let's outlaw all fatty food.

My point is just that everything carries risks. When I drive to work in the morning I could get in a car accident and die. That is a risk, but I judge the risk to be acceptable. When I go hiking, I could run into a bear, mountain lion, or rattlesnake and die. But I judge the risk to be low, and the rewards of hiking to be worth it. That is my right.

Those guys are experienced, and know the risks. Yet they judge it to still be worth it. I do fault them for not checking on the weather properly before they left (does anybody know if this bad weather was predicted and a simple $20 weather radio could have warned them?).

In some extreme examples, perhaps the government should step in and close certain things if the risk is too great. But apparently a lot of people do successfully climb this mountain even in December.

BTW: Does anybody know if PLB and sat-phone signals can penetrate bad weather? Water has a tendancy to absorb radio, especially at high frequencies.

Not that I advocate nationalized health care, mind you, but if our tax dollars were paying for all people's health care instead of supporting SARs, then people will sure start saying that is a valid point.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but my point is, the government is paying to search for them now. Who owns and operates that Blackhawk helicopter looking for the climbers now that I have seen on TV?

How about this.

One can climb whenever one wants, equipped as they decide, but some form of rescue insurace policy be required, so that could pay for the cost of any rescue, instead of the taxpayer having to foot the bill? I have heard that in some areas any rescue would be charged to the rescuee (is that a word?), but in others it is not. Some states used have an automatic rescue insurance if you are a license hunter/fisherperson. There used to be an insurance policy available from some agency in Alaska, I forgot which, that covered rescue. I seem to recall a rescue attempt a few years ago, possibly on Hood (getting old is a bummer), where a military Blackhawk crashed during a rescue attempt (there was even great video of the crash). Should the taxpayer be responsible for the cost of the aircraft and the injuries to the crew, or should the victims have to pay? After all, they are the ones who made the decisions, good or bad, that started the whole rescue in the first place...

I agree with you Nighthiker. I don't really want the government in charge of anything. But in so many situations that's who's lap it always seems to fall into. I hope the military's funding is a win-win situation, but I'm not holding my breath seeing how they usually spend money. I think OldBaldGuy had an interesting point - an insurance policy to pay for SARs - a way of warding off government regulation and avoiding tax dollars being spent.

Agree 110%. Uncle Sam has no business making further restrictions on what we do outdoors, when, and how. You can't prevent stupidity with overlapping layers of red tape and additional user fees.

If these three guys went up with total disregard for the weather conditions, poor equipment, and bad planning... then they probably shouldn't be labeled as "experienced climbers" by the media. They will have to deal with Mother Nature on their own.

I wonder if the climbers took a GPS with them. Coupled with the cell phone it would have been very handy for at least getting closer to the guy holed up on the mountain. A PLB would have been useful, too.

Hopefully all three turn up with nothing more than mild frostbite.

Last thing we need is more government career bureaucrats passing more unenforceable feel good laws supposedly, in this case, to protect us from the laws of nature. The direction of this nanny state mentality seems to be to make everyone a victim of something, no matter how illogical.

"...a win-win situation..."

That is true, the military sometimes loves to get involved in a civilian rescue, just for the training. When I was still a working highway cop I had a Naval Air Station nearby, and several times I had a Navy Huey (I know, I am dating myself here) happen to fly by, see the crash I was working, and land unvited with an offer to help. Once they even took over CPR for me, a real nice thing, since CPRing is far down on my list of fun things to do. But when things go wrong, as they can, and the miliary chopper, which was called in because the local agency does not have one, gets totaled, the taxpayers shouldn't have to foot the bill

Thats right more government always fixes everything.

Per capita climbers are some of the most self sufficient and safe outdoors folks around. Most climbers adhear to a "self rescue" philosophy. Less climbers need to be rescued each year than either hunters or hikers. We don't need no stinking badges I mean climbing licences.

Climbing in winter can be dangerous but as some have previously noted it is also a safe time to climb on "loose" routes; the ice and snow glue everything together. In fact last I checked you can't climb Hood after the middle of July due to rock fall hazards. That is why climbers get up so early; to get the climb done and to get out of the "bowling alley" that happens as the mountain warms up.

Climbing Mt Hood in winter would be a very reasonable way to train for climbing a larger mountain in a colder climate like Vinson or Elbrus which are each one of the famed Seven Summits.

Traveling light and fast is a proven method that almost all modern climbers use. Yes you have to leave some otherwise essential survival items behind sometimes but that is part of the reality and even the chram.

I climb a lot in the Sierras during spring, summer and fall. If you want to move efficiently you cannot carry much in the way of gear. In summer when the night time temps can still get real low I carry a light windshell, an Emergency sleeping bag like an AMK Heatsheet bivy, a lighter, tinder, MP1 tabs, a SAK and a whistle in a small Camelback. Yes if I get stuck on a legde overnight it will be long and cold but I can't carry any more and be able to lead through offwidth and chimeny sections. Even with the Camelback sometimes I have to trail it below me on a piece of webbing. Many other climbers including the older school ones don't even carry that much. I have climbed with friends who leave the car with "a rope a rack and the shirt on their back" that is all. That quote is from some pioneering American climbers from a few decades ago.

The majority of SAR folks are volunteer. They buy their own gear, use their own gas etc.

The military choppers, manpower etc are already paid for if they are on a search or not. Where there is usually extra expense is by the Sheriff's Dept as they are responsible for heading the search. In some cases the lost folks will be billed if they were real boneheads.

Insurance is a good idea.

Legislation is lame. Move to Europe if you want to live like that, where
baseball bats and pointed knives are registered.

The weather on Mt Hood can change all by itself regardless of the weather
around it. It is one of those risks you can't completely avoid. It is an hour by hour judgement call on what you think will be coming next.

Carrying
a lot of what if gear may slow you to the point of getting into real trouble.

A beacon may help, but if you are in a position where rescuers can't
get to in bad weather, without a cell or way of communicating the direness
of the situation, you may just be leading them to their death. They can't
tell the difference from "oops i broke my ankle and need some help
down when the storm clears" and " My buddy has altitude sickness with crackling rails and bloody sputum and needs to come down NOW"

I can agree with that. But if searches like this go on the rise and costs go on the rise (regardless of how funded, pre-funded) and the government foots the bill in any way, I was implying some person in Congress will get ticked off and come up with something and try to get it passed. Especially when they are high profile cases you see on the news 24 hrs a day and get national attention like this case.

If the military was prefunded I would rather see those resources be used up responding to a real disaster that could not be helped. Not somebody's recreational mishap that could be prevented. But I guess the Coast Guard is all to familiar with those and it will be a never-ending thing.

I like the fact that they bill boneheads for the search sometimes. The government wastes enough tax dollars already. Come to think of it, I really couldn't leave them on their own though. I just look at that as downright wrong, no matter what mistakes they could or could not have made. I don't ever look at them as should be being held criminally responsible, just financially liable though.

They might start saying it, but they would be dead wrong. There are many foods that are fatty, but healthy. Peanuts and Salmon and Tuna all come immediately to mind. Plus there are entire diets devoted to eating more fat and less carbs. Should we outlaw all white flour? Just all refined flour? How about sugar? Who makes the determination of what is healthy? Some see the current government food pyramid as insanely unhealthy, and the past ones as criminal! Big Brother, Big Government, and Nanny Statism are all bad, no matter the situation.

Accurate warnings, clearly posted on food, and/or climbing areas allow intelligent individuals to make their OWN decisions. Whenever we allow government to make those decisions for us, we lose. We lose personal freedom, we lose self-respect, we lose accountability. We gain quite literally nothing as every law I've read in this area has created more harm than good. About the only law I would support would be to increase food labeling requirements and make them more consistent - perhaps similar with regard to risky outdoor activity. I imagine that requiring climbers to read warnings would help, but some people still wouldn't read them or wouldn't stop at the ranger station before embarking. Does that mean that a professional team should be required to jump through hoops for a license? And presumably there would be a nice price attached to that. My guess is that tourist dollars already pay a large part of SAR activity and volunteers make up the rest. Why should there be any concern whatsoever about the costs of rescue? If it's too costly, it won't happen or will be all volunteer. That makes the climb riskier and presumably less active, and thus bringing down the requirement for SAR dollars. Ah, the free market works wonders.

Why should I not be able to make such a decision in the future based on the stupidity of others? There are so many a##hats in this world that we would have to protect everything so carefully as to make life painfully boring, bland, and restrictive. That's not to say that regulation isn't important, but regulation of industry, commerce, environment, and other larger things we can't control directly... that's what government can do for us. The rest of it? Well, that's up to us to do right (or wrong, as the case may be). In the end, there will be fewer and fewer "wrong" choices as they either Darwin themselves or smarten up and learn their lesson.

Now... I'd like to go eat my chili cheese dog in peace while I wash it down with a nice 32 oz. Mountain Dew. :-) That's why I work hard to pay for health insurance (among other things) right? Oh, and emergency medicine costs have all the uninsured already built in. Why socialize it?

You're absolutely right... the bill, if any - and not covered by the area's SAR team effectively financed through said tourist dollars - should fall on the parties to be rescued. I'm quite certain that insurance for those evens would be in high demand if that were the case. Personal responsibility is so much more effective at keeping things running smoothly than the government ever could be.

As an experianced climber with a little bit of training in mountain survival, they are either:
1) Dead. As a result of hypothermia or from a fall.
or,
2) Sitting in a snow hole/cave waiting for the weather to break.

Anything else is whistful thinking, I'm afraid and I very much fear that 1) is the case.

If you are an "adventurer" you should expect to pay for a rescue. That is how it is done in Europe.

Just remember mountain climbing can be dangerous anytime of the year. Climbers take a risk with each climb. The desire is to minimize the risks by climbiing at an appropriate time and date, often to avoid potential natural hazards, such as rock and icefall. The one thing that is hardest to plan for is weather. Weather on a large mountain can change rapidly and often without being predicted in forecasts.
I have climbed Mt. Hood via the Cathedral Ridge route and have not tried Cooper Spur, which is the route the climbers are stranded on. The climbers were attempting a rapid ascent with light gear, which means in some terms it was supposed to be up and down in a short timeframe. Commonly refered to as an "Alpine Ascent". The risk is if something goes wrong you have little gear and also if the weather is an issue, as in this case, rescuers are hampered also. The fact that it is December really does not make a climb particularly more risky, but it usually means planning on colder conditions, potential for longer duration storms and variable climbing conditions in regard to snow and ice conditions.
I was once on Mt. Rainier and it snowed 3 feet on us in July at 10,000ft, most years in July there will be no snow to a few inches during a storm at that altitude. Weather on large mountains is just an entity of it's own, especially mountains near to the coast.
The biggest worry for the stranded climbers is if they have enough fuel for their stove to melt water to drink and enough gear to keep frostbite to a minimum if temps are extemely low. That depends on how lightly they packed. Given their experience level, I would say they likely have extra fuel and clothing, sleeping gear and food along. Whether it is enough, that is the worry.
Also, snow caves are really very warm in relation to exposed temperatures outside the cave, that should help keep them safer. No wind will effect them in a snow cave as well.
I give them an excellent chance at survival, if the weather will just let up soon. Time is the enemy in this situation. Pray for the best!

The Search and rescue team I am part of does not charge for a rescue, however, if the rescuer (or his/her family) wishes to donate something to the team, is is appreciated. But it is clear that a rescue must not be postponed or cancelled for monetary reasons.

Many SAR teams are self-funded. For example, in order to raise some funds, some volunteers in the team I am part of perform first-aid in local events.

Yes,
The SAR team I worked with for a few years was all volunteer. The best thing we ever got for searches was the awsome meals from the local county sheriff's "chuck wagon".
I never expected to get paid but what I am proposing is when someone goes "out of their way" to get in a SAR situation they should expect to reimburse their rescuers for their rescue. This would ensure that there would be funding for future SARs. Out of the way means BC skiers/ riders, climbers, mountaineers, ww kayakers and rafters etc.
As a climber I expect myself to be self sufficient 98% of the time but if it really hits the fan I would have no problem with being expected to pay something for them coming and getting me.

Every SAR group I have worked with or heard of is against charging for their
services. They do however welcome donations from those rescued. The current
folks I work have meetings each month and often the rescued attend or send
cards and donations.
Some we have found send thousands of dollars, some send a $100 check each
year, some send a card, depends on their means.

One reason I do not like charges relates to a search about 30 years ago
in Idaho for some hunters. They didn't want to be rescued and pay fines,
so avoided our search team and tried to follow the tracks out. They didn't
make it. Died of hypothermia. We found were their tracks showed them
hiding when searchers went by.

Sounds like those hunters in Idaho 30 years ago had a death wish. People can only be helped if they are willing to help themselves sometimes. Avoiding a SAR...wow..Hate to speak ill of the dead, but....well you know.

Just watched the latest news. Well, they have an UAV to spot their body heat. But the weather impedes. I heard there is a military C-130 involved now as well as two military helicopters. Looks like they have everything they need to pluck them if the weather will just clear, I just hope and pray it hurries up and does!

I don't think there is such a thing as a "death wish"
sounds kind of flip for a serious issue.

It is pretty common for folks to try to avoid being found by searchers if they believe they will suffer fines. And almost all victims worry about the potential expense and embarrassment. That doesn't help the searchers or the lost.

One of the search tactics is attraction-use some sort of signal-so the lost person can find their own way out. A fire on a ridge, loud noises, flares, lights etc. This is especially helpful so the lost have a hand in their own rescue and mitigate some of the embarassment etc.

When I look at where my tax dollars are spent, helping folks
in dire situations, even if it is somewhat self induced, is
pretty okay with me. And 99.9% of search and rescue missions
are for hikers and similar "just out for the day folks" and
requirements like licenses and PLB's would have to apply for
everyone stepping out the door.

One study showed we could reduce traffic deaths (by 25%) if everyone wore
a helmet when driving. Where does it end?

I dont know how much $ it generates or if it still is in existance, but Colorado used to tack a 0.25 fee on hunting and fishing licenses for SAR. Even the tree huggers would buy a license for the SAR fee alone. I think it kept you immune from any charges etc if you needed to be rescued. But that was 10 years ago and the memory of it is a bit cloudy. Any CO residents care to add?

Mount Hood Searchers Find Notes

"Rescue workers searching for three lost climbers on Oregon's highest peak found notes suggesting the missing men may be well prepared for their situation…"

"Victims of the government not passing laws enforcing stricter guidelines due to past lessons that cannot seem to be learned."

Our government has passed many, many laws to try to protect idiots from themselves. It didn't work with the first one, the last one, or any in between. Even Albert Einstein recognized this fact, saying, "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

How about we stop trying to rescue people who deliberately put themselves in danger by cultivating dangerous hobbies? Let them do what they want to do, go where they want to go, but they'd better be able to get back themselves. Call it the self-pruning branch of responsibility. It seems to work quite well for sky-divers, doesn't it?

Every SAR unit I've ever heard of pays its own way: training, dogs, equipment, gas and air fare. They risk their lives to save people who will often do the same thing all over again.

And what's this about 'the government paying' for stuff? Just where do you think the government GETS the money for all its largesse? Well, just in case this is a surprise to some people, it's US. We, the people. We, the taxpayers. We, the people who pay almost half our income for taxes, visible and invisible. Our government doesn't have a secret farm in Kansas where they grow money trees and geese that lay golden eggs, you know.

Sue

You don't think there is such a thing as a death wish at all in this world? Wow. Not flip for a serious issue at all in my view. I honestly can't admit they might as well have not had one. You were close to the situation apparently. Sorry if I offended you.

Major developments expected Sunday in search for climbers, officials say (What a lousy headline!)

"Aircraft deployed in the search for three missing climbers on Mount Hood spotted 'items of interest' in the general area where one of the climbers made a distress call from a snow cave a week ago, officials said Sunday."

SAR found the snow cave, no climbers, just a sleeping bag and climbing gear. Now where do they look?

That doesn't sound good. I think a sleeping bag is one of the last things I'd want to leave if I was stuck on the side of a mountain.

-john

Different snow cave, Fox News reporting one body found.

CNN reports:

One of three climbers missing for more than a week on Oregon's Mount Hood has been found dead, a sheriff's spokesman says.

One body found in a snow cave not far from the first one:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003482394_webclimbers17.html

"HOOD RIVER, Ore. – Teams looking for three missing climbers on Mount Hood found a body after searching a second snow cave near the summit on Sunday, an official said.

"We have found one deceased at this point," said Pete Hughes, a spokesman for the Hood River County Sheriff's Office.

He said the body had not yet been identified.

Marc Smith, another spokesman for the sheriff's office, said the body had not yet been retrieved from the 11,239-foot mountain. A colleague of Smith, Karl Tesch, had said the body had been taken by helicopter to Hood River. But Smith said that information was incorrect.

"I have confirmed the body is still on the mountain," Smith said.

The body was found in a snow cave — but not the one that was first searched earlier on Sunday, officials said.

"Our hearts are going out to the families right now," said Capt. Mike Braibish, spokesman for the Oregon National Guard.

The second cave was located in the same area as the first snow cave, officials said.

Braibish said rescuers would be coming off the mountain early Sunday evening and will review the information gathered today before making tomorrow's plans.

"We remain hopeful," Braibish said. "We are going to still collect information and pursue the rescue of the two other climbers."

A sleeping bag, ice axes and rope were found in the first snow cave, said another sheriff's office spokesman, Sgt. Gerry Tiffany.

Tiffany said earlier Sunday after finding the first cave that another snow cave was likely. It is believed that both caves are in the region where missing climber Kelly James made a distress call with his cell phone to relatives a week ago.

Taking advantage of clear skies and a sharp drop in the wind, rescuers focused on the first cave Sunday after a helicopter spotted a rope laid out in a Y-shape, which climbers often use to signal their location.

Footprints were also found at the site. Tiffany said the prints appeared to head up the mountain, toward the summit but were blown out by the wind at higher points.

Weather conditions have been harsh since the three were reporting missing eight days ago, with heavy snow fall and wind gusts of up to 100 mph. The snow stopped Saturday, but wind up to 50 mph blew the fresh snow, hampering visibility. Skies were blue Sunday, the wind was still, and temperatures at the 11,239-foot summit were reported near zero degrees.

Searchers dug through the first cave, about 300 feet below the summit, to ensure no one was there and took the equipment, which officials will examine for clues.

Tiffany said its clear that whoever stayed there "hunkered down in the snow and they survived there for a while" and that they climbed out and could have made a snow cave elsewhere.

(The NY Times says the deceased is Kelly James.)

Sue

The body is said to be Kelly James.

R.I.P.

I'm a personal responcibility man myself. I think people who go up mountains have a responcibility to protect themselves, and since SAR is a reality that isn't going away, I think people also have a responcibility to the SAR personnel. Legislation isn't going to do that, even legislation designed to put more responcibility on the climbers by requiring them to pay for rescue. People who are afraid of being rescued for whatever reason may hide and endanger themselves and more rescuers. Blackhawks cost about $6 million. How much insurance can you take out? Enough for a helicopter? How bout $32 million for a Chinook?

I don't know what the answer is. Or even what the question is? Or even if there is a problem. Yes, there have been a couple of highly publicized rescues lately, a few fatalities and occassionally a SAR member is injured or dies. But how many people actually have to be rescued each year? Does anyone know? I'm sure the number would seem high. Probably a few thousand. But how many people go out each year, more importantly how many times? A few million? A few tens of millions. That many people walking to the bathroom is going to result in a few fatalities let alone going out into the woods or mountains. DO the rescues really constitute a problem or are they just a natural side effect of people doing any sort of activity. Compare the relative number of people who die during outdoor activities today with the number of mountain men who died. Did personal responcibility keep those people alive?

I don't know these questions, or what the best questions should be. But I think there is a lot bigger discussion over these last two cases, Kim and the Mt. Hood climbers, because of the media coverage. Every other week someone posts a newspaper article about someone being found alive or a body found and the discussion lasts a couple days at the most. Does someone in the media have an agenda that they are useing these cases to support? This isn't a conspiracy theory. But an observation. These cases have received a huge amount of media coverage then those in the past. I can't see anything special about the events themselves, so the question arises "Has something changed somewhere else that is affecting the media coverage?" Just something to think on.

What would it cost to replace that C-130 gunship that they used to scan Mt. Hood for body heat? About $190 million each for an AC-130U Spooky model, $132.4 million if it was an older AC-130H Spectre. AND that's in 2001 dollars. Kinda impossible for one person to insure against. You have a real point there AROTC

The cemetaries are full of people who take unnecessary chances
( and those who have to try to rescue them).

Being totally inexperienced in climbing at extreme altitudes I have a question.
If they had stuck together in a snow cave with their equipment why wouldn't they have been able to survive?
At the risk of second guessing I am trying to learn from their experience. I'm assuming it would have been better to stick together in shelter, am I wrong?

Jon

The history books are also full of people who took unnescessary risks and did something great. Its an unnescessary risk to quit your job and start your own business. A lot of people quit and go back to working for someone, some end up building empires. Same goes for the people who rediscovered the Americas or explored them. Same goes for a lot of people. I assume if you're here you aren't your average man in the grey flannel suit.

One of these guys is dead, and someone could die rescuing the other two. Far be it for me, who lacks all the facts, say the man was under prepared or overly risky. The rescuers aren't the same as firemen dying in an arson fire. They are pitting their knowledge and skill against the mountain same as the climbers who they are trying to rescue. They waited for the weather to clear before venturing up.

"To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to..." (Hamlet)

I understand this was used as a epitaph for a solo climber of MT. McKinley, who did not return from his attempt.

Robert Service

The Men That Don't Fit In
There's a race of men that don't fit in,
A race that can't stay still;
So they break the hearts of kith and kin,
And they roam the world at will.
They range the field and they rove the flood,
And they climb the mountain's crest;
Theirs is the curse of the gypsy blood,
And they don't know how to rest.

If they just went straight they might go far;
They are strong and brave and true;
But they're always tired of the things that are,
And they want the strange and new.
They say: "Could I find my proper groove,
What a deep mark I would make!"
So they chop and change, and each fresh move
Is only a fresh mistake.

And each forgets, as he strips and runs
With a brilliant, fitful pace,
It's the steady, quiet, plodding ones
Who win in the lifelong race.
And each forgets that his youth has fled,
Forgets that his prime is past,
Till he stands one day, with a hope that's dead,
In the glare of the truth at last.

He has failed, he has failed; he has missed his chance;
He has just done things by half.
Life's been a jolly good joke on him,
And now is the time to laugh.
Ha, ha! He is one of the Legion Lost;
He was never meant to win;
He's a rolling stone, and it's bred in the bone;
He's a man who won't fit in.

I wonder about the found cell phone being "soaked". I wonder if water had collected in the bottom of the snow cave, and the late injured climber was in water, and not dry.

One of my favorites. That and the Law of the Yukon.

"This is the law of the Yukon, and ever she makes it plain:
"Send not your foolish and feeble; send me your strong and your sane --
Strong for the red rage of battle; sane for I harry them sore;
Send me men girt for the combat, men who are grit to the core;
Swift as the panther in triumph, fierce as the bear in defeat,
Sired of a bulldog parent, steeled in the furnace heat.
Send me the best of your breeding, lend me your chosen ones;
Them will I take to my bosom, them will I call my sons;
Them will I gild with my treasure, them will I glut with my meat;
But the others -- the misfits, the failures -- I trample under my feet.
Dissolute, damned and despairful, crippled and palsied and slain,
Ye would send me the spawn of your gutters -- Go! take back your spawn again."

I think you're right. Also, why not use the cell phone to call 911 besides calling the family? I read that the injured climber had a dislocated shoulder, while that can be painful, if may also be repairable in the field, depending on other circumstances. The article also said they had food for 6 days, which is perhaps more than I would have planned for a 3 day climb, if I was planning a winter ascent of Mt. Hood. The climbs on Mt. Hood are normally a one day trip, top to bottom, 2 at most. That is in the summer season, for sure more difficult in winter.
Weather is always the biggest worry on any climb of large mountains, winter season can be very unpredictable with multi-day storms a real potential.
One thing I can say though, as someone that used to travel to the Northwest every year to climb mountains, it is harder to plan when you live thousands of miles from the mountain. You are not as aware of local weather patterns and all you have to go by is forecasts designed for local cities and you get information from climbing guide books about conditions that you "may encounter".
Climbing mountains can be dangerous, no doubt about that. The other option is to stay at home, watch TV and never try anything exciting. I admire this group for setting a personal goal and seeing it through. Unfortunately, they were victims of the weather and a climbing accident. As a former climber looking back, I know I often took some risks and while doing so, I felt confident in my abilities and those of my partners. Still, we could have had circumstances beyond our control cause us to become a statistic. If I was younger and in better shape, I would still take the risks. You never live at all unless you push the limits from time to time and enjoy the success of overcoming obstacles. Man was meant to explore, challenge and reap the personal rewards. I think it is wrong for people to sit at home, having never tried anything challenging, yet remark unfavorably about those that do.

The entire incident is tragic, but we are not talking about people who, though no fault of their own, got trapped by an UNEXPECTED storm ( In the summer) but three people who choose to climb one of the highest peaks in Washington IN THE WINTER, with a major storm coming in (this is considered highly dangerous (and incredibly foolish) behavior by any one who lives in snow country or works with a SAR team)