Another survival kit link

Just thought I'd pass it along:

http://www.coolhail.com/coolhail_emergency_kit_016.htm

Thanks for the link Jim, it was kinda interesting:

I like how the kit is laid out except for one problem....most of the contents are of very cheap quality that I could go get right now at Wal-mart. Gee, is this what is being done? I know this because I frequently browse for kit ideas sometimes when at Wal-mart.

Looked at the contents, looks reasonable. Looked at the price, Not reasonable. For that money I could build a much more capable kit and have change.

You're exactly right, Leigh, I just don't wanna go add it all up. The Winchester knives and multitools (Yes, I owned them - and got rid of them) are el cheapo quality and cost usually in the $8-$12 range. They do have a new line of Chinese-made Winchester knives/multi-tools just out in Wal-mart though that I cannot pre-judge and have heard nothing on yet. Ozark Trail brand-name things usually are all poorly made (I should know - I have bought them, used them, still have some, have thrown some away). I swear by the Smith's Diamond Pocket Stone though, I own two or three of them.(around $5.88 last time I bought one). But I am a person who sharpens knives alot and someone with inexperience might need an "assisted angle" (or whatever the terminology) sharpener in their kit. I have seen the waist pack with water bottles for $12.88, I think it was. I think I know of that particular low-quality compass the picture shows too. There are some good items. I'll skip the rest of the bad and save my breath.

I think I would make a better quality kit and sell it for less if I were this particular person. To me, not to do so woud be unethical. But, again, my values are different, and I don't look at survival in just $$$ Quality in the kit is essential, or else I don't see any good sense in marketing it.

i agrea, see lots of crappy things and the price! It even has a knife that sure looks like one that failed during use and opened my hand up during that failure...

It probably is overpriced, but there are plenty of folks who won't take the time to put together one themselves.

I figured up the value of my his and hers BOBs the other day and was surprised to find that each was about $400 worth of gear, not counting tax, S&H and my time. And I'm not done...

Very true, anotherinkling, but if their life depends on it, it should at least better be a good quality kit for the money. Also remember our time is something that other people will not value like we do. If you count your time up trying to make money like that, you will have a hard time making money.

Watch out for the Winchester multi-tool. I've seen a number of them, and thier best components are solidly in the class of "suck".

Shame on FN for pimping one of thier best brand names like that.

Lets see.....
1 leatherman wave, $70.
1 basic Silva or Brunton compass, $10
1 Ritter PSK $30.
1 Pocket Boy folding saw. (Small), $10.
1 poncho, $20.
1 basic mess tin. $10.
2 basic water bottles. $20.
20 meters cordage. $10.
1 first aid kit. $20.
Food, to personal taste. $10.
1 Daysack to carry same in. $20.
Total cost, $230.

You will note that all the prices, assume that you go for the finest quality items available. I am quite certain that you could do it for somewhat less. A very jammy individual might even do it for half that price. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Feel free to [censored] about my prices. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And the bit's I have missed. <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Ditto - el cheapo el crappo - think of the poor souls who will buy this - store it & then find out later when they need it how pathetic the quality is...

Think of the poor souls who buy it, never open it or check out the gear in it, and think they are covered.

In the photo, it looks like a deck of cards is included....

I guess something in the kit to fight boredom....play solitaire. I saw waterproof cards being sold in the boating section at Wal-mart now too..... <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Why no t use the playing cards printed with survival info?? At least 1 company, maybe more, make them. Boredom killer, with info on them.Survival Cards

True.

On the other hand, if it means more people are carrying even simple basics (such as a poncho, knife and matches) then it's a good thing. Never mind the quality, it's still better than relying on fingernails and a credit card during teotwawki!

Better tools are great, but every year lives are lost where a whistle and a space blanket might have saved them

Of course you can assemble a better kit.....but would you do it for free? After factoring in the costs of say Leatherman vs Winchester AND a profit, who would be able to buy it?

I would dare say that 99% of the commercial kits available don't contain "THE BEST" of every single item in a kit. For the sake of affordability, compromises have to be made. While I wouldn't personally buy a Winchester multi-tool, I would imagine that it would suffice for most cases for the 24 or 48 hours until rescue.

If it is that easy, go start a company, make kits and get rich. Anybody see Doug Ritter's new Jag?? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If your marketing a mass produced item, then economy of scale comes into play. I was working on the basis of one bespoke, own use kit. At retail prices. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Actually I have a winchester that's held up, thusfar, through quite a bit of use. That may be the exception rather than the rule though.

Curiously, I cannot find a picture of the model I have online...

Frustratingly enough, I also have a gerber and I can't find a picture of that either. It doesn't have those black tabs on the handles you see on all their models now...

*EDIT* Found a picture of the Gerber on Ebay

Simon: please note that this post is not directed spcifically at you, but partially to you and partially to others who have posted on this thread.

I would just like to point out that there is a definate cost of doing business.

My wife started her own web-based business for "Christian marriage enrichment" (shameless plug: http://www.covenantspice.com - some parts may be very slightly not-safe-for-work). You would be surprised about the costs of staying in business.

In this line of work, those products usually wholesale for about 50% of the retail cost. We buy an item at $10 and sell it for $20. You might be thinking that this is fantastic (and at first, so did I), but it is a lot more complicated than that. Let me explain...

Business licenses & such will run between $100 and $200 per year, depending upon where you live. Secondly, you have to factor in such things as the cost of web servers, cost of advertising, amortize the cost of your "equipment" such as fax machine, accounting software, books on web authoring, ink cartridges for printers/faxes, reams of paper, etc. We also have to pay to get our products shipped to us, which is usually from Kalifornia to Florda - a pretty far distance. Also, we use a shopping cart service, and they process the credit card info for us, and they charge us a several-percent fee for the use of their service. But if we didn't use their service, then we would need to set our own encryption certificate and credit card gateway, which would cost more money. We run this business our of our own home (no extra rent, electricity, etc.) and have no employees (no workman's comp, etc.).

After all of this is done, what is left is profit, and what does not get re-invested back into growing inventory is subject to income tax. So, for a $10 purchase, we may get $3.00 of actual, real, go-on-a-shopping-spree profit. And this assumes that my time and my wife's time is free. If you count the number of hours spent in this business, all my wife did was buy herself a job at less than minimum wage. But, we fill a niche market that we believe strongly in, and my wife has a pride of ownership an accomplishment that you can't find at any minimum-wage job.

My wife's business is not actually making a product. All we do is run a web store and pack-n-ship orders. If you then think about making a commercial BOB, you can see that a lot more work has to go into that. Unless you are going to do this out of the goodness of your heart, you want to make some profit for your time.

My wife uses mainly two distributors for most products, and buys directly from the factory for her chocolate products. For a BOB, if you want to include a knife, matches, poncho, water treatment, compass, signal mirror, whistle, etc., you are likely talking about at least a handfull of different manufacturers and distributors. This increases the amount of work that you have to do just to get the product ordered, and increases the shipping that you will have to pay. And if any companies have minimum purchase quantities, you may find yourself sitting on a hundred whistles or mirrors because that was the least that you could order.

I must admit that I am mightily impressed by what D.R. managed to pull off with offering the PSP for under $30 retail. Part of that is the fact that they make those things by the thousands, which is some thing that D.R. might be able to do, but us mere mortals can only dream of.

With all this being said, I must admit that that original link looks expensive for what you get. My wife may double the wholesale price on a $10 item, but we usually have less markup on the more expensive items. We may sell a $40 item for $65 or $70. So a BOB that costs $250 should, in my opinion, probably have a wholesale value of around $150 to $180. I will not take the time to figure out how much that kit would cost through Wal-Mart. But a person cannot go to far wrong by having that kit (except perhaps for the price). Let me put it this way: if you were in a hard-up survival situation and had nothing, you would be mightily glad if you found that kit hidden under a bush. Nothing there is exceptionally good, but it is a whole lot better than nothing.

That entire kit is actually cheaper than one Sebenza. If you only had $300 to spend, would you have one knife and nothing else (no firestarter, compass, light, etc.), or would you rather have all of the bases covered with items of OK but not exceptional quality? I know which one I would choose. So, it might not be the best quality or the best value, but don't judge it too harshly.

I agree that the price is high. I also agree that the Winchester Multitool is a peice of crap. (However the Winchester is probably about as good as any other $10 multitool, which is what you see in other kits.)

There are some very good items in this kit:
Storm Whistle
Star Flash Signal Mirror
BCB Survival Matches Mk3
Tinder-Quik
Smith's Diamond Pocket Stone
Portable Aqua
The LED light looks like a Garrity ?

I think any of the above would be reasonable choices for the best of kits.

Anyway, while I too think it is overpriced, you could do worse.

The deck of cards I guess I could understand as giving you something to kill time with.

The contents list includes "1 pair of Chop Sticks". Have I missed something somewhere? Why would you put chop sticks in a survival kit?

To poke people who can't use chop sticks, as part of the laugh and mock ritual?

I could see how that could be more fun than a deck of cards.

Of course, you could use the chop sticks to eat with. Chop sticks and oatmeal would sure motivate you to get out of there.

Is there some other use that I am missing?

So you can practice catching flies like Danial-San in "The Karate Kid".

From this you get many things:
1. It takes your mind off your dire situation
2. Protein if you actually catch a fly
3. Quiet time to ponder the wonderful 80s
3. A renewed sense of mastery over the situation because "Man who catch fly with chopsticks accomplish anything".

<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Maybe not...

Splint for your finger?
I suppose you could shave em down for tinder
Friction fire by bamboo anyone?
REALLY crappy tent stakes
Ok i'll stop now.

The kit could be made in China, as is almost everything. If you're a Chinese person, putting in chopsticks would be as ordinary as us including a spoon.

http://www.personalsurvivalkit.com/

As it happens, yes I would. I had a very interesting relationship with a Chinese girl. Watching a native use them makes you realise just how sophisticated a tool they are.

Please, Jim, please tell me you aren't thinking of getting this guy.

I know that knife. They sell it at my favorite hardware store out of a candy jar for 99 cents each. The other contents make me just as nervous.

Nope, but I was just doing some 'survival-surfing' and stumbled on it. Thought you would find it interesting.

http://www.survival-center.com/

Ok, am I missing something???
When I go to that link, I see NOTHING anywhere that is very expensive...
$50.00 at most...
What is $250.00 that you all are talking about???

Look at the start of this thread....

It shows a different kit now using the same link as you originally supplied, Jim. This time for $19.95. The supplier changed it, apparently. He or she must have read our forum or something. Not that I want it, but for the money, that looks like a reasonable deal this time.

chopsticks are stronger and more compact than cutlery, also easier to clean and cheap and light enough to use as disposable cutlery for when you can't clean them. start using them and you'll throw away your forks.
simon

"chopsticks are stronger and more compact than cutlery, also easier to clean and cheap and light enough to use as disposable cutlery for when you can't clean them. start using them and you'll throw away your forks."

-- I would say that statement is highly debateable. It depends on what the chopsticks are made out of, what the length is, and on personal preference.

Simon

actually they'd make good tent pegs. won't rust and very light. where's the disadvantage over other skewer pegs?
simon

cut down chopsticks to the length of a fork and they are undeniably lighter cheaper and easier to clean. trying to clean between the prongs of a fork without a brush is difficult. i can bend a fork with one hand not so a bamboo chopstick. i pack a dozen in my possibles bag for all sorts of use spare buttons (make a small peg) tent pegs, tinder etc
as you say it's a matter of prefernce with eating utensils but i'd recommend at least giving them a try. my 8 year old nieces can learn to eat with them in a few minutes.
simple simon

Thanks, that's a much better explanation. From what I hear, forks were a luxury with many cowboys, pioneers, etc. They just used their knives.

I'd say it dangerously lacks in the fire starting department.