Boiling Water - containers?

I my hunting bag I have a PSK & FAK. In the event that I would need to Boil Water or for purification (or cooking), what would be the smallest, lightest thing for this purpose.

I have a small metal bowl about 4" in diameter, and about that deep. It weighs 5-6 oz.s I keep taking it out of my bag and putting it back in. lol I carry a Kytadyn microfilter bottle, so water purification is somewhat covered there. Although boiling and filtering would be nice if the water source is questionable.

Also the ability to cook small game by boiling in some kind of bowl with a bullion cube thrown in for flavor would be nice.

My PSK is housed in plastic Nalgene bottle, that weights right at 1lb. (remember in my bag, not on my person), so I can't really use that to cook, but it is good for extra water storage.

Any Ideas?

I always use HD aluminium foil in my PSK, but a mess tin or sierra-cup would be better (of course it doesn't fit into your nalgene)

I use a coffee filter and micropur tablets if I can't cook

Campmor sells a metal cup that fits over the Quart Nalgene bottle...although I doubt that it would be big enough to cook squirel or rabbit stew in, but you could use it to boil water.

Space Saver Cup

You can't really make a pot big enough to cook in small. Pick the biggest you are willing to carry.

For weight savings, go titanium or aluminum.

For shape, go with either bowl, cup or square mess tin. The Trangia mess tins double as a container for food or kit, are light, easy to pack and may be your best bet. Search mess tin kit on this site and that may help.

Good luck.


re-reading your post, I would definately repackage your PSK in a Trangia tin, ditch the nalgene and go with a playtapus water bag for extra water storage.

This is the exact cup I have now (Sierra Cup). It lists at 6.oz, and just seems a bit bulky since I will probably never have to use it. It is nice though, I use it with my MSR pocket Rocket all the time when camping. Just don't grab that handle when it is hot, OUCH! Learned the hard way. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I liked the looks of that "space saver cup" It's a little lighter, and would definitly pack better/smaller.

I saw a Titanium cup one time at REI, it was REAL nice, but the price tag was rediculous....

Here's a good link with pictures

This looks tight!

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores...mberId=12500226

I have that very Ti cup (MSR one in link above). It is a nice cup, pricey, and it perfectly fits in the Katadyn ExStream Water purifier.

You can boil water in it (obviously) but your sure can't cook a meal in it.

I know that the army canteen isn't the most versatile choice in H2O carriers but it fits a canteen cup nicely. A lot more room than the cup that fits the nalgeen bottle, although I haven't tried to cook in it, it is a bit bigger than the cup but it still is not a pot. I have mine with me almost all the time......nice insurance.......

In an emergency, you can boil water in paper, like a paper cup or similar container. Water boils at 212*F, paper burns at 451*F.

we used to boil eggs in styrofoam cups filled with water in the Scouts. Not environmentally friendly, but this was like 1980 and people still threw EVERYTHING out the window while driving back then. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, I wouldn't want to eat anything cooked in styrofoam nowadays, but it was a pretty neat trick seeing the top melt where there was no water, but the cup remaining intact.

If you gut, skin, debone, decapitate, and fold, you can stew a small squirrel or chipmunk in the Nalgene cups. It just looks kinda funny, and you are constantly adding water so it takes forever. The USGI canteen cup DOES hold about twice as much, and is the best arguement in favor of that canteen.

Mark, if you are looking to repack in mess tins, check Major's Surplus and Sportman's Guide, one or both of them frequently have Euromil surplus mess tins from either France or one of the low countries that is about 7.5x5.5x2.5. Leave out the third, inner piece, and pack your gear into the two shells. It leaves you with a container to hold your kit while you cook, or you can cook two things at once (not the worst idea if you if you have to boil water- the fire is making more heat than the boiling can use). As I said elsewhere, I'm pretty sure my car running over it wouldn't hurt it. VERY similiar, although with a lower end (IMHO) handle is the British mess tin.

Unfortunately, I can't find it at Sportmans Guide, and Major's website is misbehaving right now.

If you are looking for the best bang for your buck, try a Wally World grease pot. They hold about a quart of whatever, weigh almost nothing. The ultralight camping crowd has been very fond of them for a long a time, they weigh maybe 8 ounces and run about five, six bucks. Look around by where they have the tooth picks and measuring cups, it is in a funny spot in the planogram. Keep the inner strainer/steamer tray or not is a personal call. Down side is that there is a small rim along the inside, that either needs to be done away with, or cleaned with a cut down toothbrush, and it has not handle. If you carry a leatherman or similiar, you are fine, otherwise you want to pick up a small pair of pliers to tuck into it and use as a pot grabber.

It's the top item on this page
Very good write up on it

You can see pictures of both here. I use both, but the mess tin is the core items. If I have to shed the rest of the pack, unless I'm about to go into rapids, being chased by an angry mob or something equally immediate in it's lethality, I'm taking three seconds to pull that out.

I have an old military canteen cup which has served me well for years. You can stuff it with all kinds of things to reduce the space it takes up, and it weighs very little, resuseable and durable.

I have gone a slightly different route over solid containers. I use the art of origami and thin aluminum to make a pot that is 6 inches square and 3 inches deep yet will fit into a wallet.

While you could start with heavy duty aluminum foil I decided to go a bit heavier for something that would last longer. This is to use disposable aluminum cookie pans or sometimes labeled as oven liners. These are essentially double or maybe triple the thickness of the foil. This heavier foil also results in a sturdier pan. But you still need to manuver it caregully to prevent it from unfolding when full.

I cut out a square 12 inches on a side. Using paterns of origami that can be found all over the web you can fold this into the aforementioned box that is liquid tight and reasonably ridged. Folded flat it produces a 6 X 6 inch package. Then if folded in half this gives a 6 X 3 inch packet less than a 1/4 inch thick. This packet is about the size of several stacked dollar bills. Hence will easily slip into the bill compartment of any wallet.

Yes wear and tear will eventually wear holes and need replacement. But it is very cheap, light weight and compact.

The British pattern 58 water bottle can be combined with a steel mug.

http://www.the-outdoor.co.uk/ishop/853/shopscr207.html

http://www.the-outdoor.co.uk/ishop/853/shopscr147.html

That is what I use but am looking serously at the Trangia Mess tin.

Raspy, I like the idea of the disposable aluminum cooking pans. They are thicker and more sturdy than foil, but much lighter than my Sierra cup.

I may check that out for my PSK. I just want to have something on hand for the short hunting trips, where "if" something went wrong I would be covered.
Any longer trips with more gear, the Serria cup would be going anyway.

Some others mentioned the Mess kit. I have one, but they are klanky in the woods, so it compromises the stealth that I want as a hunter. Great for camping / hiking though.

Thanks to all for the ideas, and sharing of info. Much appreciated!

From a post below: Nalgene bottles nest neatly in a Snow Peak Ti 700 Mug. That mug with your Nalgene based PSK would make for a nice contingency kit.

Mark_G,

Like you have have small cooking pots, but I also keep taking them out of my CamelBak. They have more bulk than I am willing to deal with for something I am not likely to need. My favorite pot is the Primus Kettle. It is flat, easy to pack, has a wide lid to use as a regular pot but also has a spout for heating water for freeze dried foods.



The Ritter PSP uses an 18" x 18" square of HD aluminum foil for cooking and boiling water. This is what I keep in my CamelBak all the time. It is light and takes up little space. To make a cooking pot I fold it in half twice to get four layer thickness. I then crease it in thirds. I fold up the sides with the corners sticking out. I then roll the corners to get a water tight, square pot. It's sturdy and holds water. It also has many other uses.

I was wondering if anyone has experience with Sierra cups? They always struck me as being too shallow to be very useful.

I don't own one, but the Space Saver cup seems to be just about right to me.

Personally, I've always relied on my stainless steel GI canteen cup. While the kidney shaped cross section is awkward for some purposes, it can be and advantage when heating pouched ready to eat foods while still in the pouch.

- Tom

I have the Sierra cup, it has served me well as a camping utensil, but at 6oz in weight, it's a little more than I want to carry as survival gear. It holds just the right amount of water for one of the "Mountian House" freeze dried meals, so that's a big plus not having to do a lot of measuring. I can boil water in it with my MSR Pocket Rocket in a couple of Minuets tops.

If I know I am going to be out overnight or for a few days, the Sierra cup is definetely with me. But for an afternoon hunt type thing, I'd rather loose some of the the bulk.

Mess kits aren't clanky if packed right. Ranger bands outside and cotten wool or a bandana inside (if needed) to keep everything snug, slip it into a gallon ziplock to keep everyhing dry, then dump it into a spare watch cap pad it.

Put it in your pouch, and knock your pouch off the table. I bet the mess tin won't clank. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Has anyone considered packing their survival kit IN a 1 qt/ 1 liter pot? I'd hate to have to boil water (for drinking) in my 16 oz mug. Over and over and...

What does an aluminum pot weigh?

tro

The walmart grease pot weighs a little over 3 oz after removing the strainer. A better version of that pot is at Kmart or www.antigravitygear.com

Some of the Pepsi can alcohol stove crowd use stainless steel canisters to cook in. You can find them in WalMart, Target, etc. made for storing things from toothbrushes to kitchen spatulas. Just about any stainless steel container would work well for cooking. A lot better than uncoated aluminum like the Walmart grease pot. Don't use a double-walled or insulated container. Drill two holes and you can make a decent handle from a coat hanger or other wire.

I found the perfect solution for my problem! Thanks to Raspy who hit the nail on the head. I went with the below pictured 5.75" x 3.25" Hefty Ez foil, loaf pan. Wich weighs in at 1/2 oz a peice, I carry two. And at less than 2 bucks for a pack of 5, they are disposable.

I put a few power bars inside them to help them keep their shape, and it protects the power bars <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> .

Boiling container???
Besides hiking on the AT monthly I also get in an overnight paddle trip every 3 to 4 weeks, on my PFD is an attached pack and in it I've got a PSK, a small stainless steel bowl to boil water in, and a candle lantern that when placed under a cagoule can heat you up quickly if you are cold/wet.
I did have a thought though on a vessel to boil water-why not the ground? Dig a hole and place a liner in it-think plastic bag like a large zip lock,,,,put something on the bottom that can hold a very very very hot rock, it may take more than one application of hot rock to boil the water-crazy?
I've seen the really big pieces of bamboo (the ones that are 3-4 inches round) used to make cups for boiling, but in my neck of the woods nothing like that grows.

When boiling water with hot rocks, if you're using a plastic bag set into a hole in the ground, both the ground on the outside of and the water inside of the plastic bag tend to become insulators against the heat of the rocks. So generally, you won't have to worry about burning through the plastic unless you've got too little water inside the bag, the hole is too shallow outside, or the bag is making direct contact with the hot rocks with no insulation between them.

Still, I've seen people line the bottoms of bags with a few cold stones, bark, and even a few sticks when using this method to boil water, so I could have been misled regarding the insulation.

Has anyone else heard this?

Perhaps I've just been lucky! <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You can also hold the hot rocks in the water using sticks as "tongs".

while boiling in the ground does sound neet (and I may even try it just for fun), I think it would defeat the purpose a little bit on the side of weight savings. I don't carry a shovel in my bag when I am hunting, so I may just as well carry my 6oz Serria bowl that I am tyring to cut out of my back pack. I havn't seen any shovels that are under 6oz latley. Well maybe one of those plastic sanitary shovels <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

I tried boiling water on the stove the other night with the Hefty EZ foil loaf pan. It worked great, and didn't seem to break down the foil much. This was on a gas burner, on high, though. I need to do it over a real camp fire with rocks and such. I picked it up hot with just a shirt over my hands so that works.

OK, it's not quite a mess kit, but my solution is.... the CLIFFstove (copyright CLIFF 2006, or patent pending, or some such thing). I took a US one quart canteed cup, turned it upside down, cut the bottom out and cut it into a windscreen / stand, placed a Natick stove/stand on that (making the whole contraption look hour-glass shaped, to focus the heat up the side of your cooking vessel), and put a small Trangia stove under it all. Then you put your cooking vessel (A US Army canteen cup) on top of the windscreen / stand, light off the Trangia, and in about five minutes you have 500ml of water at a rolling boil. Take the Natick stove off, and you can use the windscreen / stand alone with a mess kit, pot, or frying pan. And it all breaks doan and packs up in a MOLLE canteen / utility pouch, with a 1-quart canteen!

If anyone can host the images, I will be happy to post them.

.....CLIFF
(like, who else?)

Hi Cliff,

I think that would likely be a TradeMark, but you'd have to apply for it. You can host pictures on any number of free services out there. Do a search for "free picture hosting" or click here if you have already setup the goodsearch cookie. There's plenty of options and many have prepared UBB and HTML code to dump thumnails with links to bigger pictures right into your message.

Can't wait to see it! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pictures good. I use photobucket now that I'm without host for the indeterminable future.

I took Ironraven's advice and played around a bit with Photobucket. I have no idea how this will turn out. OK, so here goes. .....

Here is the CLIFFstove packed up in a MOLLE utility pouch in the latest ACU colors (which are all the rage this year, BTW). In the pouch are two USGI canteen cups, a Natick cup stove/stand, and a USGI canteen cup cut up to work as a windscreen stove (aka, the CLIFFstove!). A small Trangia meths burner is in the side pocket (It's that bulge on the side. "Is that a stove in your pocket, or are you..... Oh, never mind.):

[/image]

Here is the assembly unpacked:

[/image]

With the CLIFFstove assembled:

[/image]

And with the cup on the CLIFFstove. Note how the Natick stove / stand is used as a heat shield:

[/image]

And here is the CLIFFstove, sans Natick stove / stand, used with your ordinary mess kit. I have boiled a liter of water with this in about 10 minutes. Hard boil.

[img][image]http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/roark4/cliffstove/CLIFFstoveACU005.jpg[/img][/image]

DISCLAIMER AND WARNING(S): The item shown is a home-built item. If you copy this, you do so at YOUR OWN RISK. Niether Equipped to Survive, nor Doug Ritter, nor Trangia, nor nor Cliff Grout (nor any of their family, friends, pets or trees in their yard) are in any way responsible if something goes awfully wrong. Or even slightly wrong. I can tell you this: This little stove heats up - a lot. It gets so hot that the top edge sometimes glows red hot. I cut additional air holes in the CLLIFFstove, but I am still worried that the contraption may overheat the Trangia stove - with less than optimal results (like, exploding metal stove bits flying about). So far, I have had no troubles. But that doesn't mean.......

And if you snag my idea and market it, I want naming rights and a decent cut as royalty. And cut Doug in, too - ETS could use the cash. If you don't cut us in, or claim this as your own design, well, let's just say we got friends........ <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Oh, yes - why the second cup? I have always carried two canteen cups. One I use to heat water, and one I use as a bowl or cup. That way, I can be drinking a cup of coffee while heating water for grits. (Yes, grits. I'm from Louisiana. Deal with it.)

Hope all of this helps, and thanks, Ironraven!

.....CLIFF
(like, who else?)

can you make the picture a little bit smaller next time, it's filling my screen.

Intersting setup. I have only used the natrick stove with a alcohol stove due simply turning the cup 180 degrees and on the natrick stove. Not very stable nor very efficient, because the lack of wind protection.

Ah, much clearer with pictures, yes, thank you. I think I'm going to see if I can find a can that I can do something similair with for use with nalgenes.

I hate it when I go to the grocery store and everyone is looking at me funny becuase I'm measuring the cans. Of course I could always mutilate a an olicamp cup, but I don't want to do that. :P

What are you using to fuel your trangia? I've been using the yellow HEET and I can get 500ml of water to a rolling boil in about 7 minutes with it. I'm wondering if your juice might be better, or if boil time vs volume isn't a linear relationship.

I also didn't see a fuel bottle in that kit.

Ironraven:

Fuel is just denatured alcohol. What does the trick, I think, is the Natick stove, which channels the heat up the sides of the cup and not just "out and away". As for fuel storage, I do one of two things: For weekends, filling the Trangia full up and taking along a 4oz. plastic squirt bottle full of fuel works fine - I've never run out of fuel. (My little bottle was originally used for hotel shampoo - thank you Holiday Inn.) For longer excursions, I take along a fuel bottle I got with a Swedidh mess kit (it has a Trangia stove with it).

Oh - PC2K: I'm terribly sorry about the image sizes. They looked fine when I previewed the darn thing, but trying to open it up from home I see what you mean. Like I said in my earlier post - this was my first stab at posting images, so please forgive me. <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

.....CLIFF
(like, who else?)

thanks for the pics cliff... very cool setup

no need to say sorry, everybody that post pictures has propably done it once...

I fold up a loaf tin - more robust than foil and already preshaped. Any tiny holes can be pinched shut, but generally I'd keep it folded until needed and then once open keep it that way, to avoid wear.

Boiling in holes in the ground, birch bark containers, paper cups etc. is great knowledge for a tight spot, but as the ability to boil and cook is pretty fundamental, I'd try to find space for a foil pan - mine squashes really small.

FWIW, Rays Mears (British bushcraft guru) rates a decent cook pot second only to a knife, because they are so hard to improvise.

I agree. I really like my Space Saver Metal Cup on the bottom of a 1 liter negalene bottle.

I have used those as well (in pocket-sized kits) with pretty decent success. The trick is to be careful when folding and unfolding so you don't wear a hole in them. I would choose these over foil any day but they would never replace a good metal cup like the one I mentioned above. If I have room for the cup then it goes. If not then these go. If there's no room for these... well then I have a thread here somewhere on primitive pottery in 8 hours or less. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I'm still working on that one by the way, for those who are keeping score. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />