Canteens & cups

Hello, All --<br>I believe I've read most of the threads on this forum, and thank everyone for sharing their ideas and techniques.<br><br>The great water balloon/condom/roaster bag thread was a terrific one for PSK purposes.<br><br>HOWEVER -- for general outdoor use, when you KNOW you're gonna be out in the woods for a day, a week, whatever -- you'd take a canteen along, and something to boil water in, or cook simple meals.<br><br>Has anyone found anything better than the standard US Military/NATO canteen that nests with cup and stove all in a convenient fleece package?<br><br>All the cool daypacks and fanny packs these days have a single or double pocket for water bottles; but I don't know anyone who makes a (preferably) stainless nesting cooking pot with collapsible handles to fit standard water bottles of any size.<br><br>Ron Hood's (excellent) site at survival.com uses a 1# coffee can with a lexan bottle inside, but you'd have to carry a pack, and couldn't attach it to a fanny pack or belt.<br><br>It'd be nice to be able to use the commercial fanny/day packs for minimalist camping or day-hike survival use if you had a convenient nesting cook pot that fit the canteen. <br><br> The alternative is to base your carry on a GI web belt to carry your ALICE- clipped canteen, clipped on pouches, etc. But then you still need some kind of daypack or alternate gear carrier for other essentials that won't fit on the web belt.<br><br>I'm looking for an equally elegant space saving canteen/pot solution that works for water bottle-type packs and fanny packs.<br><br> Anybody got any suggestions?<br><br> Thanks -- Karl

With a little sewing you could create a tunnel strap on the nice fleece cover of the milspec canteen assembly and slide it onto the strap of your fanny pack. Alternatively there is a decent titanium tumbler with folding handles that fits nicely around the bottom of a sports drink bottle. weighs almost nothing - costs decidedly something. I believe I got it from EMS retail - mfg'd by MSR in the titan line. Holds ~20oz fluid.<br><br>one online source found through google - there were a bunch so this is just the first so that you can see it.<br><br><br>MSR Titan Cup

This is not totaly an answer to your question but...<br><br>I have a fanny pack with two water bottle holsterson each side. It also has two straps underneath where you could secure an extra water bottle nestled in a cup/pot.<br><br>I'm planning on doing that with a small cook kit. I didn't want to spend big bucks on a titanium set, but I did find a reasonably prices aluminum set at Snow Peak for $13 +S&H (approx. $18 total) It weighs in at 18.5 oz., which is not too bad for a casual hiker such as myself.<br><br>I'm going to nestle my new pop can alchohol stove I made this winter (thanks to folks on this forum for that link!) and a fuel bottle. [url}http://wings.interfree.it/html/main.html[/url]<br><br>Aside from the two straps, I'm going to tie it off somehow so it doesn't slip out the side and fall to the wayside on the trail. I haven't figured out how yet asI actually won't get the cook set until Valentines day from my sweetie!

KB,<br><br>Check out<br> http://www.wyomingoutdoor.com/commerce/product.asp?dept%5Fid=340&pf%5Fid=13%2DJ519<br><br>Sorry, I haven't figured out how to add a link, and my 11 year old son is at a friends house.....<br><br>It's a steel water bottle cup. It nests outside the bottle, it has folding wire handles. Hope thats what you're looking for.<br><br>Andy<br><br>P.S. If anyone would like give me the short explanation for how to post a link, I'd be grateful.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>P.S. If anyone would like give me the short explanation for how to post a link, I'd be grateful. <p><hr></blockquote><p><br>When you compose or reply to a message, click on the link "markup in your posts" and all will be revealed to you... two variations; very simple and easy to remember once you try it.

Stainless steel cups with folding wire handles, sized to fit on the outside of standard 32oz Nalgene bottles (HDPE or Lexan), are very common these days. I have purchased them off-the-shelf locally and mail ordered them. They very much are the "water bottle equivalent" of a current issue US military canteen cup and canteen in terms of function. I'n not going to post any links because they REALLY are commonly available from many sources - note that this is fairly recently (say, the last two years) that they became widely available. I have found that they are not all of equal quality and none of them are as robust as a military canteen cup (go figure). But they work just fine. Capacity is a little less than a canteen cup (too lazy to go check, but I will hazard that they hold about 12 fluid ounces (US), which is probably about 2/3 of the capacity of a canteen cup).<br><br>I find that unlike canteen cup/canteen combos, they all rattle annoyingly. However, one can reduce or eliminate the rattle with a scrap of cotton cloth sleeved around the bottle butt (between the bottle and the cup). The cloth is my "cup cleaning" rag and "crud screen" for filling the water bottle from surface water sources... and I usually carry one in a canteen/canteen cup combo, too - the diff is I must use a very thin one (issue hanky works well) for the military gear combo and something thicker like a shop rag works better for the water bottle - cup combo.<br><br>I do NOT like these cups as well as the canteen cups. But they are very useful and do the job without robbing any space. They also cost less than canteen cups... no matter if you are buying a couple, but if you have lots of kids...<br><br>One thing I like about standard water bottles: Wide mouth - easier to fill, not as hard to thaw by pouring hot water in and cold slush out, very slightly slower to freeze up, etc..<br><br>IMHO wide mouth water bottles suck for use as a canteen - wrong shape and not as easy to sip from. YMMV... and there are probably hosts of reasons why 32 oz military canteens from around the world continue to have essentially the same form factor for the last 60+ years...<br><br>If you don't mind it flailing around a little bit, it is trivial to sew a strap onto a standard water bottle bag in order to sling the combo bandoleer fashion - like the old timer 2 quart "cowboy" canteens could be carried. I usually have one slung under my parka that way in the winter time much as Mac (I think) was describing in an earlier post.<br><br>Life was simpler when I wore web gear <grin>... I don't feel that either combo is perfect for all situations (no pack, day pack, big pack, etc.). I use them interchangably, as the mood strikes me. If I'm going on what I consider a "serious" trip, I always pick the military combo - no explanation; maybe just personal comfort level.<br><br>The cups are common; not so common on the market is a ready-made cover/carrier. Hope that helps.<br><br>Regards,<br>Scouter Tom

I very rarley go so minimal, but if I were to go that way I would carry a 32oz nalgene wide mouth bottle with the top held on by a strap that comes with the bottle, and a stainless steel cup that hold something like 16oz. The cup fits the bottle pretty tight as is. It for sure can't rattle. This would limit your cooking to the cup though. I think these 2 items would need something for the cup to stay in place...a string/thong from water bottle strap to cup handles which fold.<br><br>I like these bottles because i can use the top and strap as a handle to get water and stay dry. I don't know the best way to attach this to a belt, or webbing. I can think of several ways, but not knowing you useage I can't say what would be the best for you.<br><br>I use a few different packs and like things inside of them with as little as possible hanging on the outside. However one of my smaller framlesss packs has webbing, and I tend to place the water bottle on a benner over my right shoulder.<br><br>I don't care for the hydropacks, as I can't see carring a pack for just water holders with a straw gizzmo. But hey those things are well accepted!<br><br>When I go out in 1758 gear I don't carry water, but find water, and use a "Corn Boiler" made of copper. It holds about 24 oz. I use it for drinking and cooking. If I know water will be hard to get I bring a wooden keg that holds about 2 1/2 gallons, but then I travel by canoe and never take the keg far from the canoe..... Also places I go tend to have pretty good water, and I boil it...

Your not alone. I have no idea how to post a working link. You can copy and past one though. And I wish to know how to post a photo here as well..... help us!!!! Mac

Check the FAQ

You have to post the pics SOMEPLACE on the web. Then put the url to it in your post like this: "[i m a g e]url[/ i m a g e] = Puts the given url in an img src tag." Not as handy as some software that lets you put the image in-line, but it works great.<br><br>Similarly, the tags for a hyperlink are: "[u r l ] link [/ u r l ] = Makes the given url into a link" OR<br><br>"[u r l = link] title [/ u r l] = Makes the given title into a hyperlink pointing to link"<br><br>Of course, I had to pad the examples above with spaces between the letters - when you use it, don't space it out like I did (type "url", not "u r l")<br><br>These are just tags, syntaxed like regular HTML tags (if you've handcoded any HTML - hope that makes sense)<br><br>All this info and more is at your fingertips when posting or replying - look up at the top of the screen - the menu line - click on FAQ.... OR, for a separate pop-up window (more useful IMO), go to the line that reads "Fill out the form below... ... so you may use markup in your posts." - click on the link [color:green]markup in your posts</font color=green> and a window pops up with the info you seek...<br><br>I stumbled around with it a little till I figured out that it's just exactly the way it shows in the examples - hope that helps.<br><br>Tom

You do know I have trouble with common American slang don't you? And now you want me to write in Hyrogphics? Why I bet once I start doing that the entire internet will collapse! err I didn't see nuthin..... ;-) mac

I have acquired a variety of pots and pans over the years, so I generally select a good size for the trip and the amount of cooking I wish to do, which is typically pretty basic (boil water - add stuff - eat).<br><br>When I pack my gear, I put a fair amount of effort into filling the interior of this cookset efficiently. I really don't care whether it mates with the water bottle or not. If it packed full, it is not wasting space in my pack.<br><br>In my opinion, all those water bottle holders, etc. on those cool daypacks and fanny packs are just style and window dressing. In really rough and brushy country, you need a sleek silhouette and a pack that is smooth and tough, the better to slip through the chaparral. All that fancy crap just hangs you up.

This thread prol should move to the campfire forum, 'cause it's more about purposeful outdoor gear than survival gear... anyway:<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> I put a fair amount of effort into filling the interior of this cookset efficiently<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>I agree. I can't say that I have aquired a great deal of cooking gear over the years, but rather enough to cover a spectrum of intended purposes. A 2qt AL kettle with tight lid, a SS nesting set (largest is 2 qt), and a teflon coated AL skillet. Of that stuff, by far most of the time I carry the 2 qt AL kettle, battered and blackened. Two stuff sacks made from muslin - one has my grub in it and fills the interior of the kettle. The kettle slips inside the other to keep from transfering soot and grunge to the inside of my pack.<br><br>Been fiddling with an MSR 1.7L (?) tea kettle off and on, but it's not as versitile and the bails are unsuitable to hang the durn thing from, so it probably won't make the cut. I can make new bails with some 9 gauge wire - better shaped for campfire use, so I might try it out modified a few more times. Haven't bothered to make stuff sacks for it yet; just put the grub in a zip lock carried inside the kettle.<br><br>I won't give up some sort of canteen cup, tho. What has evolved for me has been to make (ice/snow) and/or boil water in the kettle and eat/drink from the canteen cup, although there have been many (recreational) occasions when I used a canteen cup for everything. If I'm really feeling self-indulgent, I add a plastic mug - I've wandered back and forth on the mug over the years. Car-camping with the Scouts in the MidWest is driving me crazy... too much junk dragged out every trip. (OK - dutch ovens are great - but I don't have horses to carry that stuff!)<br><br>Don't use a campfire for cooking nearly as often as I used to. Have always carried some sort of stove - still have the Svea 123 I started out with, tho I retro-fitted an Optimus cap and priming pump years ago when they became available. Used it long enough to rebuild it twice. But I don't remember the last time I used that stove and the eldest is coveting it, so I will probably pass it on. Mostly use a first-model Peak I <gasp!> or a first-model MSR XGK. Yes, the Peak I is relatively heavy, but it just works so well...<grin>.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>you need a sleek silhouette and a pack that is smooth and tough<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>True enough. These days I use a Kelty Slickrock for shorter trips - I confess to usually having a Jansport zippered pouch rigged up on the outside (back, on the daisy chains) for convenience, tho. Hard for me to adjust to from an old-style Freighter frame and Moose bag (old style, not current one), tho - interior organization habits are still developing with the Slickrock. The Kelty isn't large enough for my sanity on winter or longer duration trips, either, but it's not that big of a deal to me. If I ever get my down bag repaired, the Kelty would be large enough for most of those trips as well.<br><br>I think I understand what you meant by the fooforas on a lot of current packs. They don't pull my trigger either.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Scouter Tom

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>The alternative is to base your carry on a GI web belt to carry your ALICE- clipped canteen, clipped on pouches, etc. But then you still need some kind of daypack or alternate gear carrier for other essentials that won't fit on the web belt.<p><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Well, if you were to use web gear to hang everything from, why not use a butt pack (the original fanny pack) for the rest of the stuff? They were designed for exactly that purpose... I have little personal experience with them - school-house only - because I always served in units that were better equipped to travel by shank's mare. But what you describe is what the butt, er, "combat pack" was used for.<br><br>Personally, I'm not crazy about the idea - web gear seems to invite getting caught on everything it possibly can get caught on, and things tangle up everytime you take it off. If you can stand the weight around your midsection (I don't care for fanny packs; others like them), a web belt, canteen, couple of pouches, and perhaps a butt pack with a stiffener in it would work OK. It's hard to get a butt pack to ride correctly without the harness, tho. Wouldn't a bookbag sized day pack be cheaper and simpler?<br><br>Just my 2cents worth...<br><br>Scouter Tom<br>

Andy -- Thanks! That's exactly what I was envisioning, I just hadn't seen one for sale.<br><br>Might be a little smaller, but it looks like you could use it just like the military canteen cup. Now if they just made a stove that would fit, too . . .<g>

I am using now a pack that I bought in Wal-Mart. It is called "Shell and Game" carrier. It has a belt and two smaller pouches on front and a larger pouch in the back. I subtituted the belt with a regular leather belt because the web belt twisted and did not keep the pouches in place. Besided I can attach a military cantine with the clips to the belt. I tried it this past December while I went hunting and worked fine for me<br>after I replace the belt. I wear a hunting coat with a game bag and big pockets and the belt on top of them. The bulk of the pockets and game back of the coat prevent this belt and pouches to slip down.<br>The thing cost me less than $10!!. I was tired while hunting to have a backpack and this solved the problem for me. Give me full mobility. Besides when I sit down it is easier to remove than the back pack.<br>Have anybody had any experience with this carrier?

Hello , All --<br><br> Thanks for the great responses on the above subject.<br><br>You know, I got to thinking (dangerous, that) after rereading the thread on oven bags versus condoms, etc., for emergency water storage and carry.<br><br> I've already converted to a roaster bag in my PSK (two, actually -- they fold awfully flat).<br><br> But this thread started talking about outings where you've already planned on taking a water container with you -- a canteen, Nalgen bottle, or some such.<br><br> If you settle on the traditional mil-spec canteen and nesting cup in a fleece carrier (as I seem to have), the question arises -- what if I need to carry more than a quart of water? What if there's an opportunity to stock up, and a likelihood that water will be difficult to come by down the road? <br><br>There's always the larger canteen idea, or the folding water bag idea, but that's extra gear & bulk for a day hiker, or someone who just needs to carry water back from the stream to the camp site.<br><br> Then it occurred to me that a couple of oven bags would slide right into the canteen cover (under the cup, perhaps, or alongside the canteen.)<br><br> Then you could fill the milspec canteen PLUS the roaster bag(s) -- and carry the canteen separately (or in backpack, daypack, etc.) That would then solve the problem of "how to I carry a roaster bag of water securely?" -- if you knotted/tied the full roaster bag and carried it INSIDE the canteen cover for protection, and ease of carry. In a pinch (dishwashing, inconvenient camp site, whatever) you could also press the canteen cup into service as a third carrier/protection device for the bag.<br><br> That seems to make sense to me -- if you've got a milspec canteen setup to start with. Now you're able to carry two or three quarts of water with no extra gear when you don't want it.<br><br> Meanwhile, if the spare bags in the bottom of your canteen rig are unused as a water carrier, you've got extra clear bags that could be used for other purposes -- leaf transpiration water collector, dry storage, or whatever. <br><br> You could probably also slip a trash bag or two inside the canteen cover for other uses.<br><br> I've been trying to figure out the best (for me) day hiking kind of kit to use any time I'm off the beaten track. I think this idea, plus a couple of compass pouches for PSK & first aid kit and a knife meets the requirement. <br><br>If I want to add a poncho, I see that Bri9gade Quartermasters has a neat Danish surplus poncho carrier that puts a rolled up poncho on your belt, too.<br><br> Should all fit. What else could a guy want?<br><br> Keep those good ideas coming!<br> Regards -- Karl<br>

I just increased my redundant water containers also. My main carrier is a 5qt. G.I. unit with two 1 qt. saddle canteens. My rucksacks contents are roughly segregated into various poly bags and one is carried in a pocket. I just acquired some of the water retort bags from Mainstay. I didn't think highly of the concept until yesterday. I was in a huge mall when a massive headache struck. I had my aspirin in the PSK. Ever try to find a drinking fountain or restroom in these places? I now have a few slipped into various pockets. Is it much? No, but if I had to take a med or literally "wet my whistle" to signal for help it's there. Another strategy, sadly impacted by irresponsible people, is to cache water and a few basics. This was an old courtesy in many regions. I had a 5 gallon container plainly marked for an archaeological project where walking in to one site was arduous. It walked back out with some visitors who emptied it. I caught them at the cattle gate!

Just got mine today. I bought two and they are super. Only complaint: they're heavy and perhaps overbuilt.

I finallly got around to trying out my pop can stove with my Snoe Peak aluminium pot. I've tested the stove before but not to actually cook anything. Two things pop out right away. <br><br>One, it can boil 2 cups of water in about 4 minutes with no wind, and I mean a rolling boil. I was impressed. I did the test with my kids and we tossed in a pack of Raimon noodles after I took it off the stove. The kids thought it was great. My younger son said we should take a hike up Camelback Kames, A glacier formation near us, and have llunch on top. <br><br>Two, the falmes are too vigorious. They licked up the side of the pot, wasting heat and burning fuel way to fast. The cause must be that the holes are too large. I used my smallest jewlers twist drill. Next time I'll know better. Use a small point, like a sturdy pin, to poke the holes. And try to keep them as small as possible. If they end up too small, you can always use the pin to ream them a bit biger. I can't do that becasue mine are too big.<br><br>I'll try mixing up a little JB Weld and fill in a few of the hole near the can edge and see if that works. If not, I'll just have to build a new one and chalk it up to experience.

Bill,<br><br>I think you'll have to make a new one; I've made and tested about a dozen so far (Scouts; I actually hovered while they followed my instructions). The best hole-maker I've used so far is a pin vise holding a stub of a fairly small needle (I can mic one if it's important). I used CAD to lay out the holes (cut the disk out of the paper and punched the can thru the paper). A very light hammer (4 oz or less) and three hands... one guy holds the can and the pinvise and the second guy taps the pin vise with the hammer when asked. Another advantage of using a needle is that you control the direction (angles) of the jets fairly well as opposed to a drilled hole - and if the jet is not exactly where you want it, you can "tweak" it by re-inserting the needle and angling the hole (bend it).<br><br>Also, a bit of aluminum flashing makes a great windscreen and kicks the efficiency up another notch. I bend the ends so they can interlock (grip the fingers together on your hands, palms facing each other - like that). The pots nestle down about 3/4 of the way inside the windscreens the way I do them.<br><br>IIRC, I modeled these after the Photon stove (what a coincidental name...). I did make one of the pearlite filled ones and it worked fine, but the photon-style are nicer IMHO. My boys and I made about 4 variations of number and placement of jets - they all work about the same (not quite - we can time boil and burn-duration differences) - you may as well enjoy the experimenting for yourself <grin>.<br><br>Did you use my oven-cure tip for the J-B Weld? I am not patient enough to wait 15 hours...<br><br>Tom

Tom, could you email a graphic file (GIF, JPG, whatever) with your hole layout?<br><br>I'll have to make some new ones. The kids each want one of their own now! Once, I perfect it, I'll then I'll work with the scouts in building their own. How much time does it take to have a group build them? 2-3 meetings?<br><br>Have you used it for backpacking yet? If so, do you leave your commercial stove at home?<br><br>I didn't try you're quick cure technique. I was working on it late at night so I let it sit until I got home from work the next day.<br><br>I also haven't constructed the wind screen yet. I have a 3 foot tube of duct hat I was going use, but I think some flashing would be lighter gauge, and weigh less! I want to make the windscreen short enough to fit inside the nylon sack that came with the Snow Peak pot. Everything else fits inside of the pot. <br><br>BTW, mine is the Don Johnson Photon stove too. <br><br>Oh, BTW, regarding painting the bottom of the pot black. I was contemplating how far up the side to paint, such as an inch up from the bottom. I was also considering painting the entire outside black. Any thoughts on that?<br><br>Thanks

Bill,<br><br>Sure - I'll convert it to PDF and send it to you. Might take a day; kinda busy right now.<br><br>As for how long it takes to make them - the bottleneck is tool-based. Some of the steps are best performed in a certain sequence; others can mix it up a little. Two examples: (1) Drilling the central fill hole must be done before the halves are joined, but it can be done either to a whole can before cutting it down (my choice) or after cutting it down (but before splitting the sides). (2) One must cut the dome off the bottom of the third can before cementing it to the cut-down tuna can.<br><br>So figure out the sequence you're going to have them follow and figure out how many groups your tool supply can accomodate. There is no point in having two groups that rely on one or more shared tools; the shared tool bottlenecks both groups. The bottleneck for us was the pin vise and planishing hammer for making the jet holes (and that takes some time) Also, regular hole punches will not hold up to making several of these. Either pick up a couple of cheap spares or get an inexpensive die-type hand punch from Harbor Freight or someone similar (they reach better anyway and have about 7-9 die-punch combos for various size holes - handy gadgets).<br><br>Bring a toaster oven to kick the J-B Weld - about 5 to 10 minutes at 160-180 deg-F (Experiment at home so you know your settings first).<br><br>Pre-cut the aluminum flashing and the hardware cloth. Make SURE you have the tuna cans and/or similar sized cans (#2 1/2 cans & some brands of coffee cans) before the evening you begin the project.<br><br>Sanding the paint off works best wet - use a pan of water or a sink. You'll go thru too much sandpaper (loads up) otherwise.<br><br>Expect some mistakes and have spare materials on hand. Too many boys these days have never done anything with their hands... this is new stuff for many.<br><br>If you really get it organized, figure 2 full meetings (with a third "make-up" in your pocket for absent boys and those who must "start over"). Cut all the parts one meeting and epoxy / make pot holders and windscreens the next. That worked OK for us.<br><br>My boys have used them backpacking and are very pleased with them. Rumor has it that some catastrophe will strike us deep in the woods while on an after dark hike this coming weekend... shhhh! (Weinberg-King State Park, and no, the Scouts don't have a clue other than knowing me...) I would not shy away from it myself, but I have my habits and I have stoves, so... I personally still use my stoves. Normally my old clunker Peak I around here. However, that will probably NOT be in my daypack for a midnight stroll around here with the Scouts.<br><br>As for your pot-painting - heck, I'd only supress it down from the rim as far as you feel it needs to be to avoid "contamination" of the lip of the pot. Never tried that myself - my stuff is just "naturally" blackened. Let us know how it works out, please!<br>

harborfreight.com! !!! That's a dangerous website! Thanks.<br><br>I think I'll begin with my son's patrol. One thing we have not done well is to promote patrol activities. My son's patrol met several times to make a flag when they cnaged names, but they never plan any activities outside of the troop. My son and his Asst. have been alking about getting them together on a weekend for a cooking meeting. His asst. has a recipe for baking chicken under a popcorn tub (ala turkey under a small garbage can). I think I'll print off copies of the instructions for them and suggest that I could help them construct them while the chicken bakes! Then I can have them teach the others how to do it when suddenly everyone wants one. I like making evil plans .<br><br>Speaking of evil, your weekend plans sound perfect. I have recently been think about how to encorporrate such surprises into the program. This weekend I was restocking my first aid kit that I keep in my pack (I kep my meds in there and recycle fresh ones in every 6 months). As I unpacked my Microshield CPR barrier, it occured to me that it really was of no use in the kit. If someone were to drop to the ground and stop breathing, I doubt I'd say, Wait a moment." and run bak to my tnt for the shield.<br><br>So now I've attached it to my Palm Pilot zipper keyring (as in Urban Survival kit), which is detachable so I can attach it to duplicate ings on various pieces o equipment (Pocketz on my belt or the lanyard end to my PSK).<br><br>So tonight's meeting during the openning announcements, I'm going to conduct a Pop Preparedness Quiz. First I'll ask how many know how to recesiate someone who has stopped breathing. Then I'll ask those who's hands are raised if they are prepared right now to perform mouth-to-mouth resecitation. I'm sure a few hands will drop. Lastly, I'll ask how many have mouth barrier with them. I'm sure they'll all drop.<br><br>Perghaps I an ad a quiz once a month. Such as bring a tray with tinder and kindling and see how many are "prepared" to light a fire without a lighter? without a match?<br><br>Back to the stove. I idn't sand of the paint from my cans. Is there a reason other than asthetics?

<<harborfreight.com! !!! That's a dangerous website! >><br><br>Even more so when they have a local store like here...<br><br>I like your ideas re the patrol meetings and the troop meetings.<br><br>We sanded off paint where the epoxy joint was expected to be. Two of my boys think theirs look "right" au natural (sanded all the paint off).<br><br>I have an idea or two for improving the durability of these (the exposed edge of the outer can is fragile) - see what your experiences are and let us know.<br><br>An outdoors demonstration of why NOT to use paint thinner (mineral spirits) instead of alcohol is not a bad idea. (HOT! HOT! BIG FLAMES! SOOT!) I dunno if I'd try it with gasoline or Zippo lighter fluid... they might think it's funny enough to do on purpose. OTOH, remote detonation, er, ignition via a model rocket launch system to sober them up about NOT EVER using gasoline might not be a bad idea... you have to outguess your own boys; I'm keeping ahead of ours SO FAR.<br><br>Watch out for poorly punched holes in the inner can - they can easily slit the outer can when assembled if there are any burrs protruding. It is worth demonstrating this... A good punch makes this a more satisfying project...

I usually make my stoves while my wife is at work, and therefore don't have three hands available. An acceptable substitute I discovered is to do much of the prep work (sanding the paint off, scribing the line for shortening the cans), as well as punching the burner holes, using a FULL can of soda. You gotta be carefull when you punch the first hole of course, but the liquid inside of the can prevents squishing the can by heavy handed use, and the weight helps hold it in place while you poke the holes. After you punch all of the burner holes you pop the top, drain, and then cut...

Good idea! Had not thought about starting with a "virgin" can.

It doesn't hurt as much if you use a can of something you don't like to drink...I have been using Dr. Pepper lately, since I hate the stuff...