survival skills

From a recent post by jet on another thread...<br>"... Survival starts with preparing for the expected. On this forum, over and over again, people will ask other people, "What kinds of situations are you expecting to have to survive? What types of conditions are you likely to encounter?"<br><br>If you are preparing to go for a three day hike during the summer in an area that is currently seeing 30 days over 100F in a row and counting, you begin by preparing for the expected... heat..."<br><br>This got me thinking about where I put my effort in survival skills training. I see many threads here extolling the virtue of learning basic camp-craft from shelter building to fire-making and have learned much. I am not a pilot so the most likely wilderness adventures that I will encounter will either be places I walked into or very rural auto failures of some form or another. In either case I don't expect (short of teotwawki) to encounter a long enough departure from civilization to run through more than a couple of match books and certainly not long enough to drain a bic lighter. Nonetheless I have spent about an hour and a half each saturday morning for more than a month making tea in my driveway in order to learn various methods of setting and starting a fire with various ever-more primitive methods.<br><br>Anyway, to the question; I consider the more expected situations of an auto wrek or loss of utilities due to fire or storm much more likely than any of the others so, as a father of two young children who often accompany me into the wilderness and a husband of a lovely woman who relies upon me for protection and production, I have taken up the Basic EMT class and technician HAM (amateur radio) course and lisence. How many others on this forum consider this type of training as survival oriented as basic fire-making and what is the experience with the utility of such training? ( I am new to both fields and haven't yet passed the EMT Basic lisence - no I am not chainging careers I like being an egineer)

I would consider that any skills to do with life saving and preservation (especially your own or that of your loved ones) to be essential in a survival situation. In any kind of survival setting, medical needs are top priority and the others like fire /warmth & sustanence / signalling come after, so I think that you've got the priorities right.

Yeah, what JET and Trusbux said...<br><br>We all have our personal circumstances (and interests) to consider. I think your EMT course is a great idea, especially because you have a family. And I think there's been no harm done "playing" in your driveway.<br><br>I guess I like the phrase "emergency preparedness" better than "survival". (I refer to the gear I make our Scouts carry as "Be prepared" gear, not "survival" gear...) I hugely enjoy practicing "wilderness survival" skills and have had occasions when some or many of those skills were gladly called into service. Discounting professional experiences, our recreational pursuits have given us opportunities (?) to exercise our skills to varying degrees - but we were prepared for those events.<br><br>And other, non-wilderness emergencies ranging from environmental effects to the scary things active and imaginative kids do to themselves (uh, and us "adults", too). Yeah, I think you're on a good track. Leave yourself time to play, too <grin>.<br><br>Last comment - "bug out" is a last-resort plan option for us. Planned for, but not prefered. "Bugging in" is number one with us, as JET mentioned. Part pragmatic, part philosophical (we're part of a community and feel some obligations in that regard).<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Scouter Tom<br><br>

Based on my experience, at some point in raising your children and protecting your family, you will thank your lucky stars for taking EMT. First aid and first responder level situations have easily been the most used portion of my "survival skills" over the years.<br><br>Most of us are not exposed to situations which will require outdoor skils like fire lighting or shelter building, but we all are surrounded 24/7 by potential medical situations. Here are some I can recall:<br><br> plumber next door falls off roof - lying on ground in a pool of blood (two months ago)<br> father in law mentions brief episode of chest pain after exertion (yup, it was a coronary, fortunately mild)<br> five year old daughter is riding a bike - falls off and comes up with a depressed skull fracture in the left temporal area. We were working at Canyon de Chelly National Monument at the time and medical assistance was rather marginal. (thirty years ago)<br><br>A good firiend of mine was taking a CPR course (with my encouragement) - split between two days. While she was grocery shopping after the first half of the class, a lady in the supermarket goes suddenly unconscious and collapses....(about fifteen years ago)<br><br>I took my initial first aid training years ago while in college. It was part of Phys ed, and geared toward organized athletics. I kept getting blank stares when I would ask about procedures when the ambulance was more than fifteen minutes away. Training now is much improved and more real world.<br><br>Be sure your kids get trained early and often, as well. It is a useful life skill which should be taught much more broadly than it is. Too many people rely on the crap they see on TV.

After studying the material on this web site, especially the section for children, I am assembling a fanny pack kit for my younger children. (My oldest is a Boy Scout and will have a full PSK). I have modified the contents for their age. For example, they are too young to be entrusted with knives and fire starting equipment. Having such tools in their possession would likely put them at greater risk of harm by their own inexperience. But I have (will have) some basic gear suitable for the circumstances they might run into, which would be to become separated from me some how for a short period (hopefully) of time.<br><br>I don’t have the list handy, but I am including:<br><br>Whistle<br>Emergency Rain Poncho (Orange)<br>Space Blanket<br>Chemical Light stick in plastic toothbrush tube.<br>Small first Aid Kit<br>Red Bandanas<br>Small flashlight<br>High energy food (Gorp, etc.)<br>Water Bottle<br><br>We are planning a camping trip this spring where I will practice using this gear as a “game.” The key will be to teach them what to do if they become separated. In short, stay put & blow on your whistle three times every fifteens minutes. The poncho is for foul weather or warmth should they be lost and darkness falls. The space blanket will be for a temporary shelter in case of darkness. The light stick is more of a night light to ward off darkness. I know I can’t ward off fear, but I hope to teach them to be prepared for it so they don’t make life-threatening decisions because of it. As been said here many times already, your brain is your best survival tool, even for a young child.<br>

I'm just writing this to again emphasize first aid learning. I have been trained in both "first responder" and a higher level of first responder, "Combat Lifesaver." I have used my CLS skills more in the civilian world with kids then I have in the military. The basics of basics first aid can be taught by your local Red Cross for fairly cheap and with only a little time. It teaches mostly CPR and some very basic first aid. If you want really decent First aid training, you might want to think about taking the First Aid course at your local Community Collage if you have one near by. That route is a little more expensive, but gives much, much more in depth training. Where the Red Cross course tells you a little bit about how to do everything, the CC course teaches why the body does the things it does, and how to best react. It also gives more practice, which considering the brain reacts almost strictly to training in a high stress situation, is a lifesaver (pun intended). <br><br>Once you have this wonderful training, I would suggest hitting up your local "medical supply" retailer. Eugene where I life has a bunch. They sell all the little things in 1sies and 2sies, and have a much better selection than your average major pharmacy. Also, you can find the gear cheaper, and the employees often have the training to give you advice on what your looking for. Then design a pack/or case that is easy to grab, and easy to organize. The idea being that somebodies life may be riding on you getting your gear and employing it as quickly as possible. The stuff you stock in your case should be the things you are completely trained to use. Oral airways, blood pressure cuffs and the like are of no value to you if you don't know how to use/employ them properly. I have used my kit so many times, that I have absolutely no regrets about the money or time that I have devoted to my kit.<br><br>My kit is a large EMT style tackle box that I picked up on sale (thank God, it would have been real expensive otherwise), and I have everything that I am trained to use inside except for IV and oral airways. I have a selection of bandages starting real small and going to the abdominal sized pads. I have some high speed "tape" which is self sticking but in fact not gluey that is bright orange, perfect for making pressure dressings and bright enough to attract the attention of EMTs when they arrive, if your so lucky. I also carry Sterile water. In the event of a major burn, the only thing you should apply is sterile water. Pouring unsterile water on a burn can in fact do more damage due to the risk of infection. Sterile water being a little more expensive than plain old bottled water, has more uses, which negates the added cost. It is also just as drinkable which is nice. Don't bother getting special burn ointments because if the burn is bad enough, and the casualty needs to go to the hospital the "Pro's" will just scrape it off, which would hurt like H.E.double hockey sticks. They also sell instant ice packs which I have used more than once out of my kit.<br><br>I would also invest in a SAM splint. Too many uses, negligable space. You can cut it into strips to make finger splints (ask me to tell you the story of a kid who had a broken finger some time, he just wouldn't hold still). <br><br>Also in my kit I have a pair of good EMT shears a good flashlight with a spair set of batteries, a couple of red lightsticks, a white lightstick, a couple of "emergency blankets" (shock), a "instruction manual w/ the information regarding the stuff easily forgotten (poisoning and what not), coins for a pay phone. <br><br>My kit is kept stable in my trunk in a special place reserved specifically for it. I keep it there because I will more than likely have my car near by when I need it. All my friends and relatives who normally travel with me, have been briefed on where it is and how to best get at it, just in case I need to rush in to "get a handle on a situation." That way I can get moving and see what's going on while my kit comes to me. <br><br>Anyway, I'm going to get off this little tangent now. Have a good one.<br><br><br><br>

Thanks for the info, Koz.<br><br>I have a standard first aid kit in the car and I carry a portable one in my pack, although neither is likely as comprehensive as your's.<br><br>My pack kit started as a Army surplus kit that I augmented (I even threw in a little sewing kit ). But I don't have items like SAM splints or EMT shears. I look into upgrading before my next trip. <br><br>A question regarding sterile water, would water treated with iodine or KNO4 be considered sterile?

While water treated with iodine and KMnO4 would be bacteriologically safe, it would not be considered sterile. Furthermore, impurities in the KMnO4 and iodine as well as the chemicals themselves alter the pH (acidity / alkalinity ) of the water restricting its use somewhat in a situation where you need sterile water ( i.e. wound irrigation or eye irrigation especially )<br>All that being said, iodine and KMnO4 in water is better than non sterile water. And non sterile water may sometimes be better than no water at all.

Hey, me, too (Combat Lifesaver). Good training. Sounds like your kit is better maintained for stockage than mine, except I do keep some IVs and suturing materials for certain trips. Have to re-stock IVs from time to time and they come indoors during the cold season, so they are not with me all the time.<br><br>That orange colored elastic bandage stuff - oddly enough, that's the main color I stock also. I got it a bit less expensively by getting it as vet supplies, tho - name brand (3M), but a bit cheaper. Very useful stuff. Stuck in my paradigm, tho - biggest dressings I carry are field dressings 'cause I know how to use those.<br><br>While I cannot say that I've had more uses with kids than military, I've had plenty of kid incidents - not all our kids, but mostly - once the neighbors figure you know what to do, they tend to call on you first. Let's see, there was a fractured skull, complete with CSF leaking from an ear, driving to ER with one hand while holding pressure point on another with the other (that was a LOT of stitches and frankly, my suturing is better than the job they did - but most docs wig out if you suture - they'd rather let the wound get necrotic while your kid waits forever in ER once you get the bleeding stopped - grrr!) - anyway, the list goes on; I agree that moms and dads should take formal instruction. And keep the kids trained age-appropriate. One of ours saved his sister's eyesight once, thanks to that.<br><br>I agree with your post completely. Good tip on the sterile water, too. As for Willie's question - it depends on who you ask and what the circumstances are. Minor lacerations that are going to be allowed to form granular tissue and heal up unassisted can be cleansed with munincipal tap water with or without soap (soap better, followed by clear rinse). If the wound is going to require any intervention in the way of closure, trimming, extraction of large objcts, etc., best to simply control the bleeding and transport to proper medical facilities if you can. The "we're three days from the nearest road" situations are a heck of a lot more than I am willing to discuss here and I have found that doctors with no first-hand experience in those situations often disagree amongst themselves about that anyway. Reassuringly, I have found that docs with that first hand experience seem to be in very close agreement, though.<br><br>I have found the longer duration Red Cross courses to be very good over the years - well worth the time, expecially if you've never had formal training. My Dad had all of us take some of those when we were teens, and I have had occasion in later years to re-visit some of those courses. The absolutley best, most practical, most useful first aid training I've ever had, though, was that given to me by the Army. Dunno if it's as good nowadays, but I sure hope so. <br><br>Regards,<br><br>Scouter Tom, a.k.a. "Doc Dad"

Scouter Tom,<br><br>Sounds like you've been there, a few time. I don't carry sutures because I am not trained on their use. I do carry butterfly sutures for those times when you can't necessarily get to "professional" help, or when I'm dealing with a stubburn casualty (I don't need a doctor, that's not muscle tissue, just give me a band-aid). <br><br>I don't carry IV stuff in my vehicle for 2 reasons. 1, it's hard for me to get ahold of the equipment. Lines and needles are easy, bags are hard and they expire. And 2, liability. If I had the equipment, and a serious casualty who I was not related to, I would be tempted to use the equip/training. Then I would promptly get sued. When I have my CLS bag at home, around my family, that's a different story. I wouldn't even hesitate. No liability.<br><br>Anyway, the SAM splint is great. I highly recommend it. Don't be cheap either, get the big one. They can be used for everything from C-spine injuries to hip fractures, from leg breaks to finger splints. All you need to do, if you've never used one before is get it, then play with it till you know everything about it. The main thing to remember is to crease or bend it in order to make it rigid. Then you can splint any body part.<br><br>Regarding kids versus military, my civilian job is as an educational assistant in a Special Ed classroom. Even with the first aid class that every employee is required to take, no one seems to retain any of that information. Plus the school nurses are now on an on-call basis. They have 3 schools they have to attend. They are never, ever there when you need them. <br><br>Have a good one. Hope this is of interest.<br><br>

Sterile water is available in "easy to use" containers. AquaBlox brand sterile water is available in both an 8oz and 1 liter juice box type container. The 8 oz looks just like the standard juice box while the 1 liter is just a larger version. These are good to store in your 72 hours kits or a couple in the car "just in case"<br><br>They are sold as emergency rations with a 5 year shelf life. Following is a link to their website. http://www.aquablox.com/index.html

Two short questions:<br><br>1. Where does one purchase sterile water?<br>2. I carry a small bottle of liquid waterless soap in my fanny pack. Is that suitable replacement for regular soap for washing wounds?

I took and completed the EMT course in one state. Passed the examination and moved out of state the next week! Fortunately the next state recognized my certification. Was a volunteer EMT for about a year. Had kids and they took more of my time. A year or two later joined a rescue squad. They required all team members to have or earn their EMT. My certifcation had expired so I took the course again (110 hrs). Passed the examination. EMT requires continuing education credits to maintain your certification. I have not kept up with the con. ed. so it has lapsed again.<br><br>Do I use it? Sure. Everyday with kids around. Instead of wondering if I need to take them to a hospital, I apply a little bit of basic patient evaluation. Running calls for a year also helped me to develop confidence in my skills as well as remain calm during periods of panic. My kids, as well as other kids, visibly calm down as soon as I start treatment. Most times they only require a hug and a bandaid and send them on their way.<br><br>Is it a skill that people interested in survival should learn and practice? I think so. If you cannot put the time in for the 110 hours of EMT, I would suggest the Red Cross 40 hr Advanced First Aid or sometime known as First Responder. A very good intro to First Aid that will help the average joe immensely. What supplies to keep on hand depend on your point of view and depth of your wallet. I have heard some say only keep on hand things you are trained for. Others say keep advanced things on hand in case you have a need and you happen to have a higher trained person around. 95% or higher of the calls I ran while driving an ambulance I used 4x4 guaze pads, roller gauze and tape. 10%-25% of the patients got an IV so the hospital would have a way to push drugs easier or to replace basic fluids. Assisted with the birthing of a couple babies. Messy but nothing terribly supply intensive. <br><br>HAM and other radio based communications seem the most reliable method to keep track of information if/when tv and am/fm radio stations stop broadcasting. They also provide a method of communicating with your own party. We have four FRS radios that we seldom if ever use. My family seems to have developed the skills to return to the exit point or go to locations that make it easy for everyone to find them. I would be happy to have my personal phone service turned off and never miss it so I am probably not a very reliable resouce for the need of communications equipment ;^)

<br>http://www.aquablox.com/index.html<br><br>

I think that you are abosolutely on target with the training that you are engaged in. Good luck with those classes and any others that you may undertake. It is the training and preparedness that we on this forum work on that turn potential life-threatening events (especially to the non-prepared) into coping situations that we weather through. Granted, there ARE going to be things that none of can handle, but....day in and day out....I amaze those around me by producing something or a skill needed seemingly from the blue sky. I am glad that I will be able to do that when the chips are down, too!

The Red Cross course you mentioned looks very promising:<br>http://www.trianglearc.org/ARCweb/Education/emergency_response.htm<br><br>In fact, I tried to take it, twice. The class was cancelled both times due to lack of interest. The Red Cross requires at least 8 individuals signed up to even hold the class.<br><br>I looked into this training because I'm a member of my employer's Emergency Response Team (Medical,etc.) The training I received was good, but left me eager to learn more. <br><br>I do a lot of off-road adventures, which can be quite dangerous, so I thought it would be a good idea to get some solid training (and equipment). I assembled a comprehensive medical kit using a combination of Doug's kits and some others. http://www.aeromedix.com/articles/medikit/medikit.html<br><br>Also, I'd encourage everyone interested in emergency communications to obtain an amateur radio license and a good 2m HT. It's quite easy, really can save your life.<br><br>Cheers!<br>red_jeep

Redjeep,<br><br>The link you posted was to a local chapter of the Red Cross. I reviewed your profile and you live in my town. Wake Tech Commnunity College offers the EMT course fairly often. It normally takes about two or three months of 2 nights a week and a couple of Saturdays. Cost is low. The chief of my rescue team teaches the course about twice a year for the college. Check with Wake Tech for a class schedule and I am sure you will find one running soon. If not, contact me offline and I will hook you up with my chief. He sometimes runs classes for the local fire departments and rescue squads.<br><br>If you company has an ERT team, maybe the company can schedule the First Responder class for the entire team. That should make it possible for you to get 8 students. If the Red Cross can't get a class together to meet your needs, my rescue team can provide first aid training customized to meet the needs of your team. <br><br>My rescue squad is always looking for new members. Your offroading experience and first aid interest provides a good base to build on if you are interested in joining a SAR team. We provide all the training for free and have lots of cool gear to play, opps, I mean practice with. Military night vision goggle, thermal imaging, GPS, computer mapping, two-way radio, K9, etc. We also offer training in other areas of rescue that might help you in your off-roading. Check out our website at www.redsteam.com for a basic overview. <br><br>Feel free to contact me or the addresses on the website to answer any specific questions you might have.

I am taking a Red Cross basic first aid class that includes Infant CPR, and CPR as well as First Aid. But I would like to take some basic self-defense skills classes. I am able to handle myself but would like the chance for some "hands on" practice. Any Suggestions?

This is a little out of our normal discussion, but not wholly inappropriate. Most folks seek out the classic martial arts schools. While usefull, remember that many have evolved into highly structured sports. Judo and ju-jitso are two very different children from the same parent! There are numerous courses geared to 'street smart survival.' Find one that is realistic, teaches a heavy dose of street smarts and awareness ( avoiding trouble is so much easier.) I avoid any instructor with a 'colorfull' persona. My Judo sensai was a 5' 80y/o priest-who delighted in tossing me around at will LOL

I agree with you Chris and would add that avoiding trouble is more useful than most Martial Arts training. I have taken Aikido for over 10 years from Tabata Sensei (9 Dan) and am now 3rd Dan. Aikido teaches to avoid conflict. Run. We train to live a happy, health (long) life.<br><br>In the context of short term survival in an emergancy our most important asset is our body. (Without it we don't survive...grin) Time invested in conditioning the body, either through formal Marial Arts training, sports or running will increase strength and endurance. These same activities can also condition the mind to react more quickly, and with calm even in an emergency. <br><br>In the event you find youself hanging upside down in the cockpit of a small aircraft you are better able to manage your survival if you are in good health, mental and physical. It's not as easy as carrying a PSK (which I do btw) but it pays off every day! <br><br>

Just a question, do they teach you to put your self in danger for anouther person? I welcome imput from all about this . survival and doing somthing that is right but putting yourself at risk are hard choices in life.

This is moving out of our usual discussion. While many martial arts are rooted in deep religous or cultural traditions, you must make your own moral decisions.

Seems that the issue of personal survival is tightly connected with the issue of group survival. There are many forms which this can take. <br><br>The ambulance medic is taught to avoid all unsafe scene and yet expected to deal with highly infectious individuals that they are trained to deal with. The SAR team is expected to go after individuals who have gotten into trouble because they took too great a risk in the wilderness this sometimes puts the SAR team at risk. The police officer or mounty is often at risk in the effort to ensure the group survival. <br><br>In any situation where a group must survive; from a downed plane with 5 passengers to the ongoing survival of a nation and everything in-between there is always the need to make the choice between taking a risk for the good of the group and withdrawing from the group and going on your own. ( I am stating that polarized to make a point I know that there are shades of gray and that we usually live in the gray zone) The point I am making is that there are times when accepting risk in order to protect members of the group is very much part of survival. <br><br>I would argue that if you are in a wilderness situation due to a downed GA plane with 5 people then losing even one of these people to whatever will greatly reduce your chances of survival and further, if you lost that person because you were unwilling to accept a risk in order to save them then the damage done to the morale of the team might be greater than the logistical damage done by the loss of the team member themselves. This wilderness scenario will not likely call for martial arts training but it doesn't require much creativity to translate the same principles into an urban survival scenario that would.<br><br>OTH: Vigilantism is a more a matter of enforcement than survival and so is indeed outside the scope of survival topics discussed on this site.<br><br>Just my opinion and I will accept the desist request on this thread.

thanks I was looking for opinions and examples. there are ways to prepare for survival you have to use your head and think of how you will react to different situations and then prepare appropriately. I would be the one running into the burning building or just stopping and helping someone on the side of the road (not always, because of instinct) I wont be a crime victim or let it happen to someone else. My family knows this but they also come first when in a dangerous situation. <br> Thanks again<br> God bless

For anyone interested in self-defense training for physical situations, check out http://www.scars.com. I have several of their videos and have found it very effective in a couple of unavoidable confrontations. Best of all it does'nt require athletic ability or years of training, my grandmother could learn this.

I don't have the experience or training of a lot of the regulars on this board, so this is just my $.02 worth. <br><br>When I took a two-day wilderness first aid course (about a year and a half ago) the instructor was quick to point out that "Wilderness First Aid" and "Wilderness Survival" are not synonymous (although they are complementary). Neither is really a substitute for the other. <br><br>The EMT and Advanced First Aid courses mentioned by others are a very good idea, IMO, but in my experience as a basic First Aid instructor, and in talking to fellow instructors, one problem with professional medical responders (Doctors, nurses, paramedics) is that their training often relies heavily on the assumption that they are going to have a complete medical unit available. It's not unheard of for EMR-trained students to fail their first attempt at qualifying for the St. John Ambulance Brigade Level 1, which is a much "lower" level of training, simply because they can't adjust to not having a stethoscope (let alone SAM splints, instant cold packs, Bag-Valve masks, oto-pharyngeal airways, etc.) Sometimes, the instructor has to point out that they may be called on to assist in an emergency when they're shopping in the mall on a Saturday afternoon, in which case they are not going to have all that neat stuff they've been trained on; they may be lucky to get a hacked-over first aid kit that hasn't been checked in several years. <br><br>Don't get me wrong, if you have the time and the money to take a full-blown EMR/EMT course (AND maintain your certification), more power to you. But don't overlook the "mickey mouse" 2-day courses that Red Cross (and in Canada, St John Ambulance) offer. <br><br>And don't equate "First Aid" with "Survival" - they're separate, but complementary skillsets. (For example, in a survival situation, you would usually want to conserve your matches, and you'd certainly think twice about using a signal flare to start a campfire. In a Wildeness Medical situation, with a casualty in hypothermia or going into shock, starting a fire to keep the casualty warm should be a top priority, and this may justify "wasteful" expenditure of resources (depending on your skill level in starting fires).<br><br>Another thing I've been told is that people with First Aid training are *less* likely to need it, because they tend to recognize and correct hazardous situations before an accident happens. I strongly suspect that Wilderness Survival training has a similar benefit. As the old grizzled woodsman said to a new hand, "I've never been lost. I've been mighty confused from time to time, but I've never been lost."

Survival does NOT begin with any preparation - it just happens and the more you ACCEPT, ADAPT and IMPROVISE on the situation..the better your chances to survive are! No one is prepared for any survival situation, it comes unexpected and uninvited and THIS is what everyone should remember.<br>Not everyone in an airplance carries a knife...compass...reflector...GPS...etc etc etc... its all about scavenging around the wreckage AND the terrain that can be used as a tool for you and possibly others to survive!<br>I see that too many or perhaps everyone is talking about PREPARED survival and not survival based on the terrain and conditions around.

I respectfully disagree.The native peoples of Malasia do not get up everyday to scavenge and improvise.They are intimate with their environment, just as we are intimite with ours. They also rely on tool kits, however simple, that are a cultural manifestation of preparation. Ishi, the "last wild north american indian" was the sole surviver of his band. Suprised by prospectors who took the entire tool kit for souveniers, they perished. Improvisation obviously has it's place as does the prescience to "be prepared."

I agree with Chris.<br>Anyone who has the mindset that they should not prepare and wait till they have to scavange thru the wreckage of a plane or boat is doomed to have a hard time. Although improvisation is a key element of survival, it is not THE most important element.<br>That's why this site emphasizes on being equipped and prepared.<br>I'd rather be the guy with the knife and compass and matches than the survivor scavenging around the wreckage for a butter knife to make a spear with or trying to magnetize a needle to make a compass. Sure it can be done, but would you really need to do that if you had been prepared? Or would you rather take the hard road ? :-)

well like the others say stay away from trouble is the best thing, but if you want to learn a good self-defense i would recoment sports like KRAV-MAGA or COMBATO withs are modern self-defence sport desinged for the modern world. because the most martial arts wont teach you how to defend your self against guns and stuff..

For 13 years, my buddies & I were involved in trekking down PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. guerillas in the operational areas <br>" Bamboo Trail " & " Naga Belt " in both the Peninsular Malaysia & Sarwak/Kalimantan borders. To win against these jungle-based guerillas, you'd have to think and apply the saMe techniques. It means you find their food dumps, numerous booby traps, infiltration routes and camps tracks with your eyes - not with your compass or a GPS - and move as quietly as possible with the least equipmENt and food supplies you can carry which also means you forage from the jungles!!! It worked for my buddies & I and until today, special forces units from the GBritain, US, Australia dn NZealand come and learn from us the ways to survive in a jungle war.<br>And in between the operations, I was also involved in so many jungle SAR for missing trekkers, both domestic and foreign, and Ive seen and understood as the reasons why people get lost because of inclement weather, sudden appearance of wild life, ill prepared, over prepared and not prepared at all...and with this in mind, I decided to start a jungle survival school where we teach students how to get their <br>" stuff " from the jungles because there are many cases where the preparation they had was based on equipment - it never worked. Trust me... I have dealt with death and destruction and I am stating my opinion based on actual survival situations.<br>It is an added plus if you are prepared but at the same time, sometimes what you thought was adequate could either be inadequate or...what you thought could work...usually cannot work in an actual survival situation. So..its better to have an added skill based on the experience of people who have fought in a jungle-based warfare and involved in SAR. Natives here can survive simply because its their life and their survival is never an actual survival situation where they are never under pressure! In actual survival situations..time, terrain and weather are against you where you are alone with no roof! Natives live comfortbaly in their villages where they go out daily to hunt or get things from the jungles and they take time to move. They live a leasurely life and I know this because protecting them against the guerillas was part of my duty!!!<br>Their survival depended on people like us, too!<br>So..to totally ignore or look down upon an added skill from the jungles does not augur weel for someone who is keen in the art of survival. We have the best of both skills - prepared and the unprepared! A goodsurvivalist..needs to seek and practise skills from everywhere!<br>

I agree.<br><br>I was the one that started the recent thread on “making do”. My concern was that the constant fiddling with the contents of the kits (which I enjoy as much as anyone) was not good mental preparation for the innovation that may be required in a survival situation. I still have that concern, but I tried hard not to present the mental practice for innovation as a substitute or alternative for preparation.<br><br>If we are confronted with a real survival situation, it will, by definition, involve the unexpected- or it wouldn’t be a survival situation. Dealing with the unexpected, even with our kits and preparation, will require plenty of innovation and improvisation. We don’t need to deliberately introduce more in order to realistically consider it as a major factor.<br>

I think many of us don’t understand exactly what it is you’re saying. You seem to be against “preparation”, but it’s not entirely clear what you mean by that. I understand that you don’t seem to like high-tech equipment.<br><br>Do you go into the jungle without a knife? I doubt it. Isn’t that preparation?<br><br>Do you go into the jungle without a way to make fire? Perhaps- but it gets much, much colder in our wilderness areas.<br><br>Perhaps you do not carry a compass, and perhaps you do not need one in your jungle. There are many pilots on this forum, though, that might find themselves thousands of miles from familiar ground- or at sea. If you have never been in a dense fog on the water, knowing you were near land but having no way to tell in which direction, perhaps you wouldn’t appreciate a compass as much.<br><br>In much of North America it can be difficult to find surface water- even in thick woods. You need to have some way to carry water if you want to drink. There is no bamboo in our forests to make water containers from. There are many fewer plants that make cordage without long preparation. Food is not so plentiful in our forests as it is in a jungle- and much less so in the mountains, on the prairies or in the deserts.<br><br>Most of the kits we talk about here are about the size of a pack of cigarettes. If you really feel that that’s too much preparation, please tell us what you’d take in our wilderness. <br>

Uhhh..I seem to understand from your first post that you seem to be for not having any equipment and improvising everything. Now you are talking about improvization skills and adapting to the jungle environment and getting your resources from it.<br><br>The way, I see it, both are complementary. It would be much easier to adapt if you had some equipment dont you think?<br>

This is a discussion that comes up time and again on this forum and amongst any who are preparing for potential wilderness survival situations of any kind. <br><br>Tools without skills are dangerous. I would say that the danger goes beyond a false sense of complacency. I don't letmy 5 year old handle my hunting knife and I wouldn't expect her to find her way back to the campsite along the road using my compass. <br><br>OTH skills without the NECESSARY tools are useless. If you know how to use a fire drill but don't have any thing to use as a bearing for the hand end of the drill you will not get too far starting that fire. If you enter a jungle without some equipment your are as much a fool as if you enter the jungle with a 70 pound pack of newly purchased goodies from REI that you have never used.<br><br>A skill, primitive or otherwise, is learning and practice in useing tools (be they purchased or harvested). With enough practice you could become able to hunt your guerila opponents with tools provided by the jungle such as a primitive sling or atl-atl but I would be willing to bet large sums that you had a carbine or better. (BTW that is another tool I wouldn't let my 5 year old handle)<br><br>I have enjoyed discussing all aspects of survival preparation on this forum. The title of the web site is EQUIPPED to survive and thus the majority of information posted here is about EQUIPPMENT. There hase also been an abundant amount of information shared here on Skills. <br><br>I am sure that you have specific recommendations and preferences on what to carry, both in our pockets and in our brains, that will help us to survive in a jungle situation and I am eager for that knowledge. There is also a portion of the site for sharing any stories you have about your SAR experience or even potentially the military experiences as relates to the specifics of surviving in a jungle with minimal equipment. <br><br>Please share some specifics on what has worked for you. Do you carry a knife? Which one? Why that one? If not what do you use for cutting wood? cleaning fish and game? Preparing booby traps and shelter? Do you carry any shelter? Poncho? Tent? Hammock? Which works best in a Jungle? Why? How? If you improvise shelter what form? Debris huts work well in a decidous forest but might be quite wet in a jungle - what is the analog to the debris hut in the jungle? What do you commonly use for water purification? What is your backup? How do you start fire? How do you cook? What do you suggest as a source of information on jungle botany? What animals must you run from and how?<br><br>These are questions that we can use answers to. I am sure that you are highly qualified to answer these questions. I am convinced that you are more likely to answer these questions than I am to find the cash to come to malaysia and learn directly from your course. The access to the internet is vastly less expensive than the airfare. I am sure that if I came and learned in a jungle directly from you I would be better prepared than I ever would be from reading anything but If I read somethings and have knowledge I am better off than if I have nothing. Help, Please.<br><br>Brad

Nope, Im not against any preparation..Im all for it. And Im not a Master of Survival like some of you here and hence I had to learn additional skills in survival in case whatever preparation Ive done does not work due to equipment failure, inclement weather etc etc!<br>For us here, preparation also means preparing for the unexpected if the expected does not work. And survival also means equipping myself with additional unconventional skills<why not?><br>I am sure that learning additional skills will not effect the sales of survival equipment, too!!!!<br>

"Master of Survival"? Not me, not now, not ever. VOX CLAMANTIS IN DESERTO & SEMPER PARATUS

Nobody has mastered survival. <br><br>So far, at least, the death rate is the same all over the world- 100 percent. Everybody flunks the finals.

Bandit, I looked with great pleasure at your homepage. I think our "debate" about preparation is just two people running exausted around the same tree. Only the tree is smart enough to stand still. You should export the parang with the school logo etched on it. Lofty Wiseman's reference to it has inspired many to seek one. You seem to also be involved in conservation issues. I am active in efforts to preserve our California Coastal Redwoods.

Hi New Guy here<br>You might be interested to note that Lofty Wiseman now has a web site where he sells his Survival tool which seems to be some sort of parang. I'd be interested in comments on it.<br><br> Funnily enough his website is called <br>http://www.loftywiseman.co.uk/<br><br>He has separate ordering for the US and the UK so I guess you guys won;t have huge shiping charges..<br>Justin