Lighters

This may sound like a really basic question, but since I don't smoke, I know nothing about lighters. I've seen the throwaway Bic lighters, the historic Zippos, all the way up to "stormproof" styles. Among my various kits I have Nato matches, waterproof matches, Blastmatch and SparkLite. If I were to add a lighter, what makes the most sense?

there have been quite a few threads on this board over the last several months, you might search on Bic or Zippo, there are quite a lot of opinions on this topic

Malpaso:
Although I don't smoke either (I did 37 years ago) I always carry a Bic-type butane lighter in my pocket. When I am going hunting, I add some strike anywhere matches in a small ziplock bag and in a separate little ziplock bag I carry a Zippo lighter with a litlle bottle (that used to be for eye drops) with lighter fluid. I also take a ziplock back with Vaseline impregnated cotton balls. I heard that you can use Neosporin (an antibiotic) instead of Vaseline that way you can use these cotton balls to desinfect wounds if necessary.

LOL! I told you I knew nothing about lighters. After searching on Bic and Zippo, I know even less. I guess my question was the equivalent of, "What knife, what flashlight, what gun...?"

If you take a bic or other disposable type lighter with you, it will take care of 95% of your firestarting needs. Swap it out every so often for a new one, and you shouldn't have much to worry about. If you pack a blastmatch or some other sparker, you are pretty much in the green. If you use a zippo, you will have to remember to refill it with lighter fluid every couple weeks or so. If you pack a refillable butane lighter, you will have to refill it maybe less often than a zippo. There are refillable butane lighters that use a catalytic element that makes the flame darned near windproof. That might be overkill for all but the most extreme situations.

Stick with one of those 98 cent butane specials at the stop and rob counter, and do some more research. Zippos work quite a bit different than butane lighters do. Calibri makes some nice refillable butane lighters.

One of those throwaway butane lighters makes the most sense for now.

For someone who doesn't smoke, a disposable butane would probably suffice. Look for the type with the opaque body so that you can visually determine butane level. Also check for flame adjustability before purchase. Some will provide a small blowtorch like flame.

That being said, I'm a smoker (my only vice), and always carry a Zippo. Although the design is not high tech, its design is superb in its simplicity and results. It will light in high winds (i.e. motorcycle, fishing boat motoring across the lake), holds an extra flint, and can be used as a sparker if necessary. The downside is carrying the fuel, which is Naptha based. The fluid can be skin irritant. I usually carry a small can of fluid in my pack, coated in duct tape and bagged.

Being a traditionalist, an added benefit is that the fuel also works in the 2 old-fashioned hand warmers I keep in my cold weather gear. I do not recall the name, but they resemble a closed Zippo lighter stuffed in a red flannel bag.

Gerry

PS Another benefit of carrying lighter fluid is as a white trash fire starter.

I'm certainly no expert on lighters, but ...

Peiso-Electric Lighters I've heard several comments about peiso-electric lighters no lighting in very cold weather (those are the ones that get a spark from electricity generated by a trigger movement - as opposed to metal striking a flint). I always wondered by a few moments in a pocket or armpit wouldn't solve that issue.

Zippo Lighters I've heard these have problems with fuel escaping during long-term storage. That alone has kept me from using them. If used more often they might be a better option for me.

Disposable Lighters Vary as far as reliability. Well known brand names seem to do better. All are somewhat subject to long-term corrosion issues, which is why scheduled swap-out of older Bic lighters is recommended. Someone here recommended use of Cricket lighters instead. Cody Lundin prefers some kind of low-cost generic lighter, but I've not a clue which ones are those.

Jet Lighters This is my general term for lighters that seem to burn at higher pressures and have a characteristic "blow torch" type flame. Most have peizo-electric starters. The Windmill Stormproof Lighter and the Solo Storm are examples. I have both and they seem pretty equivalent and quite reliable. They can be used upside down which is good for lighting pipes, if that's your thing. I've always suspected they go through butane faster than other types, but have no proof of that.

One of the things I've not liked about most, if not all lighters is that they have very poor "reach". Picture setting up a campfire. Place a fire starter (cotton ball w/ vaseline). Place the tinder (usually small twigs for me). Cover with kindling. Add some fuel wood. Now try to use a typical lighter to reach through the tinder, kindling, and fuel wood to light the firestarter. Yeah I now I could light the firestarter first and then start placing the tinder, kindling, and fuel wood on top, but that isn't how I prefer to do it.

Anyway, I came across the Solo Candle Lighter which is made by the same people as the Solo Storm. It is an extendable lighter that can be lit both extended and unextended. Pretty cool. I really like mine but haven't used it long enough to give long-term reliability. Also the place where I bought it didn't allow color choices and mine came in black. The company doesn't offer any bright colors - wish they did. Not the best colors for outdoor use. The best choice might be the blue one. It has a peizo starter, but a traditional flame (not a jet type), which I might thing would last longer.

Also, if you do get a refillable lighter, take the trouble to go to a pipe shop and get high quality butane. Solo gives specific recommended brand names: Lava, Lucienne, King, Prometheus, or Vector - describing them as usually coming in a large 10-13 oz can with a metal fill nozzle (ass opposed to plastic). I use the Lucienne brand.

Hi there,

I've used different kinds of lighters... I would choose a Bic or Mini-Bic. They are reliable and cheap. Unless you have a specific need (for example, lighting up when motoring across a windy lake), I wouldn't bother with a Zippo and it's flints, refueling, fluid dried up after two weeks, etc.

The Zippo has it's crowd, and I like it myself, but for your situation, I would go with a disposable Bic.

Hello Ken,
A few thoughts on your post.

PIEZO LIGHTER: If it won't light, it is probably because the butane is cold. Butane will not vaporize in very cold weather. Carry it next to your body if you use a butane in cold weather.

ZIPPO: Will last one to two weeks depending on use. I have seen some on this forum suggest tightly taping the lid around the opening to reduce evaporation.

DISPOSABLES: I continue to maintain that a Cricket lighter is far superior to a Bic. Problem is, they are hard to find. Anyone that knows of a source, please post. WalMart doesn't stock them.

JET LIGHTERS: If you can't reach the tinder pile, carry one of the long snout charcoal/pilot light lighters.

I have a suspicion that the reason gas lighters sometimes won't light is because the gas has caused the tiny orifice, or jet, to corrode. Try sticking a thin, sharp needle in the orifice from time to time. This seems to help. And one final thought.
For long term storage, stay away from the flint lighters. The flint WILL degrade and get soft. In time it will completely disintegrate.

And finally, for those still sold on Bic, my son bought a pack of 100 for $10 at Sams Club. Not a bad price. But then, you get what you pay for. (Don't you, RandyO?) <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Boone

Malpaso, how about "Jon-E"? That's close. I have several left over from forty years ago. They definitely beat the chemical throw aways so common now. Nice thing about them is, you can put them out and relight them later. I think they are still on the market.

The disposable "shake em" hand warmers are fine for several hours. I read somewhere that you can stuff a hot one in an airtight container to extinguish them and then take them out later, shake them and rejuvenate them for whatever life they have left. I have never tried it and frankly, I am suspicious that it will work. Anybody tried it?
Boone

The best "lighter" type device I have found is the Permanent match. It's like a Zippo, in that, you can use various types of fuels, but it doesn't suffer from the problem of quick fuel evaporation and getting water logged. It is also more reliable than a Bic or piezo type lighters. I carry one of these, a BSA Sparklite, and a mini-Bic and I have never had any problems with starting a fire.

Don't think I ever heard of that one Paul. I googled several up and found this site where they are offered for $3.50 and FREE SHIPPING. WOW! Don't see that often. Anybody interested, here is the link and a picture:

http://www.losttreasure.com/shopping/pc-9947-17-permanent-match.aspx

Looks like Lost Treasure magazine has expanded.

Boone

You are right on. They are called "jon-e" warmers. I have 3 that my brother in law gave me a couple of years ago. I remember me and my dad used to use them years ago while duck hunting. I just dug them out and now I'm going to have to try to remember how to light them <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Regards, Vince

I got a nice butane jet-type lighter from sportsmansguide.com recently. I don't know who the actual manufacturer is; it is their private label. But it has an LED light built into it as well as a button compass. So it has a little utility besides being a good lighter. I don't remember the price. Certainly more than .99, but not terrible either, or I wouldn't have bought it.

As a fellow nonsmoker I thought I would tell you several of the reasons that I EDC a Zippo lighter. First I should tell you that I carried a disposable lighter while hiking as a kid for years so I am familiar with them and yes they do work (most of the time).

As with any of you equipment you should become familiar with its strengths and weaknesses before you depend on it. In my experience I have found that the Zippos are less affected by cold or altitude than the disposable lighters. I also have never had a Zippo fail to strike a spark for me when needed. I have had several of the disposables striker mechanism fail before the fuel was expended (they were pretty old). I keep extra flints under the felt in my Zippo just in case any of my flints wear out or fail on me.

You will hear people always complain about the Zippos fluid loss due to evaporation but they never think about what you are gaining for this small loss. Having a non-sealed container is what makes it so that it is unaffected by all but extreme altitudes. This is also the reason that they are unlikely to blowup on you. There are several work environments that will not allow a disposable lighter because of safety reasons that do not mind their people carrying Zippos.

The Zippos will take the cold as well as the other environments mentioned better than the other lighters I have been around. I do not carry my stuff for the easy or good times I want to know that I can depend on it during the worst times I am likely to encounter.

The small down side of the fuel evaporating is easy to overcome. All fuels are not equal so do some testing to see what works best for you. I have tested Zippo’s Regular and Premium fuel but found it lacking in ease of use and evaporative characteristics. I find that the Ronsonol works much better for me. I am sure it is not the best fuel out there but it is the best of the easily obtainable fuels in my area and is pretty good too.

I am not sure how long a Zippo will go with out refueling since I never run mine dry. I have had some stored that would light several weeks longer that most people think. I avoid the problem by topping my lighter up every week. It takes about 30 sec. and I do it every week before I slip it into the pocket of my dress pants to go to church. I know it is a silly memory trick but it works and hey if it is dumb and works it is not dumb.

You will have many people crowing about their favorite flavor of the month lighter that next month or in six months will be replaced by something else. Me I go with what I know works and one that has more than a few months of R&D behind it. I of course have several backup plans but my EDC will be my slim brass Zippo for a long time to come.

You make a very persuasive case for the venerable old Zippo. Do you remember the old Zippo commercial? Went something like, "Why zip -zip - zip when one zip does it? Buy Zippo!" Admittedly corny by today's standards. But then so were the roadside signs promoting Burma Shave and the barn roofs painted "See Rock City". I sometimes wish I could revisit those "corny" days.

I too, think Ronsonol fluid beats Zippo fluid. Whatever became of Red Devil fluid?

Boone

I dont like Bics because they don't have and adjustable flame and you cannot see how much fuel is left.

Is the Permanent match like the flint match that comes in the Coghlan's Tinder Kit?

Yes, they are nearly identical, only the Couglan's is not nearly finished as well. They function the same. I didn't see the stiker in the chrome one.

You want to have some fun throw your flavor of the month lighter (Bic full of Fuel) into the freezer next to a Zippo(I used a fresh charge of Ronsonol fluid). When I did it, it was about 5 degrees below zero and the Bic would not flick until I warmed it up a bit. Now I did have to paddle the Zippo a bit because one zip did not do it at that temperature but it did light which is more than I can say for the other one, all it would do was spark no matter how hard I paddled it.

Wasn't there a thread on here someplace about waterproofing a bic?.. cant seem to find it...

SheepDog and other Zippo users of Ronsonol fluid:

When the 8 ounce container of Ronsonol fluid is gone, don't throw the yellow container away. Take a screwdriver and pop the blue top off and fill it with inexpensive, low volatility lamp oil. The lid seals back well and the lamp oil makes for a great fire starter. I keep a few in my car trunk, my truck and on my Honda Foreman. I probably should have started a new thread on this idea as it would reach a larger audience. I suppose you could substitute charcoal lighter fluid in place of the lamp oil. Or maybe both. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the link, I just ordered one. I'm not sure how this thing works or if its practical, but at that price I had to find out.

From the picture it looks like the 'match' part is some kind of wick inside a tube, which is kept soaked in lighter fluid or another fuel. I think there's also some sort of flint bar on the side. Basically a manual zippo, with no moving parts and hopefully airtight to prevent fuel evaporation (I think there's an O-ring at the base of the match).

I think you have it pegged about right. I ordered one too so I guess we will find out. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

(excerpt form the linked web site...)

<img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

would you try to put a lighted match inside a fuel container ???

<img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I personnaly prefer to extinguish the match BEFORE putting it back inside the case.

I was wondering that myself. Perhaps blowing it out damages the wick by not extinguishing it immediately, as opposed to putting it into the case which would immediately cut off the oxygen supply. I'm thinking of how when you blow out a candle, it sometimes makes a lot of smoke(indicating it's still burning), while quickly snuffing it out with your fingers or under the faucet results in very little smoke.
Another idea is that perhaps it's just difficult to blow out, so it's easier to just put it back in the case than huffing and puffing to try to put it out.
I'll find out soon enough.

If you get one of the lighter colours ie. orange, you can check the fuel level by shining a light through the body of the lighter.

just approching a flame from the entrance of the fuel container ....
<img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />I prefer not to try with mine, but if freshly filled up, I fear the fuel from the case would light up before the match is extinguished...

This may sound pretty elementary, -but if ever "Caught Out" without your lighter or other firestarting means, -you can often find abandoned lighters, -often with varying amounts of fuel still left in them, -by the roadside!

And this is far from the only Useful or Survival related equipment you can so find! For instance I found a Victorinox in the Woods, a few weeks ago. Spent a minute looking it over. Busy with something else at the time, -I set it down, -*and Lost it Again!* Drattts! I'll have to find that Puppy again! Lesson further learned! Know it's general whereabouts, -so long as it didn't roll down the hill, get buried, etc! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]Malpaso[/email]

The el cheapo BICs are great. I always have one in my pack, truck, etc. I EDC an Windmill - Alaskan Outfitter All-weather Lighter from Cabela's. This is the first wind-proof, refillable lighter that has lasted more than a few months! I love it!

I just received my 'permanent match' today. I've only tested it for a few minutes, but here are my initial impressions:
It's pretty much what I expected, but a lot smaller than I expected, about 1.5"(plus 1/4" for the striker cap)x1"x1/3". Only 3 sides are made of metal, and 3 sides including the top and bottom are some kind of plastic. There is a short chain and keychain clip attached to it, but I wouldn't trust it at all. The very thin ferrocerium rod makes sparks easily, but the wick doesn't catch every time. After looking at the picture of the Coghlan's tinder kit, I realized it's the exact same thing minus the tinder, but possibly a different manufacturer. I should note that it is made in China.

The main problem I see with this is the ferrocerium rod, which I expect will wear out very quickly with regular use. The other concern I have is that it seems to hold very little fuel. The size of the unit would seem to imply that it holds a good amount, but during filling it overflowed very quickly, and seemed to have a very limited capacity. Time will tell if this is true.

That said, I think there are a lot of positives. It is simple, reliable, and has no moving parts. I like the fact that the flame has more 'reach' than most fire starting devices, since it's like holding a match where the flame stays at the end. The problem of the small ferro rod can be mitigated by carrying a seperate ferro rod or sparking device, which most of us would and should be doing anyway. If the fuel runs out, it is still useful as a sparker, and sparks with little effort. In my opinion, the small size, weight, and dirt cheap cost make it practical in any kit larger than a PSK, and possibly in a PSK as well. The sides could also be polished for use as a mediocre signal mirror for PSKs, although if using a metal tin for your PSK then obviously that's your better option.

As far as blowing out the flame vs. extinguishing it in the case, I tried it both ways and there was not difference except for a small puff of smoke when extinguishing it in the case. I'm not concerned about lighting the fuel because even if it caught fire, it wouldn't be explosive and the fire would be put out immediately be closing the cap. For now I'll stick to blowing it out, because it seems that way makes less smoke, and less smoke means less damage to the wick.

I would like to see a version with a bigger ferro rod, perhaps even a flat rod covering the entire side, and a more secure attachement for a keychain or lanyard would be nice, but I won't hold my breath. So far I would reccomend it and will probably order more, but I would also reccomend carrying another reliable firestarting method(as if I actually need to tell you people this!).

After a bit more testing I realized that it lights much more reliably(so far every time) if you strike up rather than down the ferro rod. I slide the striker up the rod at about a 45 degree angle.

kyboonefan,

I was at a Rite-Aid pharmacy today and found my first Cricket lighter ($1.97). It does seem to be of higher quality than a bic lighter. I like the built in lock too.

I've had bic lighters leak in emergency kits before. I started wrapping a rubber band around the lighter just below the fuel switch. It works great, but has to be removed before use.

I'd like to see a mini version of the Cricket like the mini bics.

There was also a 3 pack of cricket lighters for around $5. I was in a bit of a rush, but it looked like 2 butane lighters with a standard lighter fluid and flint type.

Hope that helps. TR

Cricket makes a mini lighter that is the same length as the mini BICs (2-3/8 x 7/8 x 3/8 inches). They are not overly common; but, I found some at (I think) just an everyday drugstore.

I have these for charcoal sticks is this what you are refering to ? do you just pour the fuel & light ? Please explain ... I'm interrested.

Haven't read all the posts but here goes.

Living in the great white north, my main concern is being able to operate the lighter with frozen fingers. It's amazing how difficult / impossible some lkighters are to light. Forget matches unless they are long wooden ones (more than one inch) must be in an easily openable container. Bics, Zippos and similar are nearly impossible to strike. You can however hold a Zippo & stike the wheel on your leg or other object.

In a survival situation, many tasks required the dexterity of bare hands. At 0 F or below (-20C) with a little breeze, you can "loose" you fingers in minutes. In a larger kit consider a BBQ lighter (many shapes & sizes available) refilable or not. I like these (not too long)


my 2c

(speaking from experience)

My vote goes to the lowly Bic. I've never been impressed with the reliability of windproof lighters and would never trust my life to one.

Sorry to bring back such an old thread back from the dead...



SheepDog:

Based on your eloquent speech, I got myself a Zippo about three months ago, and I must admit that I am not impressed.

Because I decided that this would be an EDC item, I chose the "mini" zippo. They have two sizes, and because I am a non-smoker I decided that the smaller one would be ideal for occasional use only. Total cost: $9.99 plus Ronsonol fuel.

Though I am not a smoker, my elderly mother is. So, when I am with her I often have to light her cigarettes. I find that my mini-zippo does HORRIBLY in any sort of wind. Although I have not done any side-by-side tests, I figure that my zippo does about the same as a disposable butane in wind. One time, I went out to the van to get one of these Colibri Quantum Temptest lighters. It worked flawlesslyin the open wind, while my zippo would stubbornly refuse to light at all, even when shielding it with my hand and body.

Just a couple of days ago, I could NOT get my zippo to light outside in a brisk breeze. Finally, I went inside and was able to get it lit, and carry it outside. It stayed lit, but just barely.

I guess what want to know is if I am doing something wrong. Is there a special way to hold it to keep the wind off of it? Did I screw up by getting the mini-zippo? Should the wick be pulled out to be level with the top of the wind screen (mine is about 3/32 shy of the top)?

Anywhoo....

Now I am now on a quest for the smallest lighter that is both windproof and water resistant. My favorite right now (based on some web searching) is a Windmill polycarbonate, with the glow-in-the-dark case. Does anybody know of any smaller ones that have some water resistance?

And as to the drawbacks of butane lighters: I live in Florida, where the tallest point is still welll under 400 feet above sea level, and where the total time below freezing is measured in hours per year.

The mini-Zippos in my observation are not as "windproof" as the full size. They also don't seem to get as large a flame as the full size version, I don't know why though as they use the same size wick and hole. <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />