what's a good compass

2nd post. whats a good compass ? what do you think of highgear and the other electronic gadgets. I love gadgets !!! they look great but do they hold up? just something to keep in my poket. thanks
finding this forum very educational, great info for a newbie

http://www.thecompassstore.com

Has some good information. I would not trust my life to any thing battery dependent or cheap. I have several but carry a Suunto MC-1G Global the most.

Would need some more information on what you need it for to give any advice on subject.

I love gadgets too, but the only electronic compass I have is my Casio SeaPathfinder Watch. (Always backup up with a normal compass)
I havent seen any other electronic compasses that I would buy except the Suunto watch range. ( I like watches too)
I always buy good compasses from Silva(Brunton), Suunto or Recta.
For base plate compasses I have a couple of Silva Voyager 9020's Which are Brunton branded in the US www.silva.se/outdoor/products/comp_voy9020.htm
In my BOB I have a Recta DP6 www.recta.ch/e/ (under Products)
For EDC and PSK's I have some of the Silva (Brunton) SERE 40 models www.silva.se/pg/products/com_sere40.htm and a couple of Suunto Clipper compasses www.suunto.com (under products, field compasses) and the compass in the ETS PSP.
I have weeded out all but 2 cheap compasses (not meantioned above and used to lend to others) and there is not a battery in sight for serious use.

While electronic compasses are interesting, they are not nearly as accurate as a moderately good magnetic compass, and since they rely on batteries and electronics, there is a certain risk of malfunctions that aren't present with magnetic compasses.

If you want a gadget, get a GPS - Garmin Etrex GPS's are very nice. GPS's are wonderful navigational tools that should be used along with good maps and compasses.

For most users I recommend they stick with compasses with clear rectangular baseplates (like the Suunto M-3) or a baseplate with a sighting mirror (like the Brunton 15TDCL/Silva Ranger). Lensatic compasses are great for taking bearings, but they are not usually recommended for beginners. For brands I strongly recommend that you stick to Brunton, Silva, or Suunto. Understand that Silva of Sweden owns Brunton, but ironically in the U.S. Silva of Sweden does not own the trademark "Silva", so compasses sold in the U.S. with the trademark Silva are actually made by someone else - maybe Suunto - and then distributed by Johnson Outdoors. They are decent compasses too.

I have far too many compasses:

Brunton/Silva:
>8099 Eclipse - $79
>15TDCL (the real Ranger compass made by Silva SE) - $62
>8096 Eclipse GPS - $39
>8010G (larger compass in Optic green from Brunton) - $19
>9020G (small compass in Optic green from Brunton) - $13
>7DNL (the basic 1-2-3 Starter compass from Silva SE) - $12
>9068 (clip-on watch compass from Brunton) - $4

Suunto:
>M-3 w/ standard needle $20
>M-3 w/ global needle - $32

My tendency is to prefer basic compasses that are low cost and high quality. Adjustable declination is absolutely a necessity to me.

My preferences are:
>Suunto M-3 Standard Needle - $20 - Great price; high quality
>Suunto M-3 Global Needle - $32 - The needle contrast isn't as good
>Brunton 8010G - $19 - Great compass, not quite as high quality as the M-3
>8096 Eclipse GPS - $39 - Would have been ahead of others, but big and a bit heavy. Accurate to 1 degree. I suspect the >Brunton 8097 Eclipse $39 would be ahead of the others, but I don't own one.
>Brunton 8099 Eclipse - $79 - Fantastic compass, LOTS of features, may be too complicated for some, better sighting mirror than the 15TDCL, kind of heavy and big and pricey
>Brunton/Silva 15TDCL - $62 - classic, big mirror, nice compass.
>Brunton 9020G - $13 - decent compass, but the symmetric shape front-to-back runs the risk of accidently pointing the wrong end forward.

These compasses are not acceptable to me because they don't have adjustable declination:
>7DNL - $12
>9068 - $4

Overall, my advice would be to go with the Brunton 8097 Eclipse or the Suunto M-3 standard needle.

Then, buy a book called "GPS Land Navigation" by Michael Ferguson. It does a great job of explaining how to use a GPS, a map, and a compass, how to use a compass with a map, and then use all three of them together to get the most benefit. None of them will do you any good unless you know how to use them correctly and efficiently.

For pocket/PSK carry, I've been pleased with the Tru-Nord line of small compasses.

Well-constructed; machined from solid brass, 1-inch diameter; $19.95.

Declination is adjusted to your zip code prior to shipping (unless specified otherwise at time of order). You may, or may not, consider this a plus, depending on where it's likely to be used.

I agree with your recomendations.
My ex Silva Ranger 15 was an excelent compass. I lent it to someone, and they liked it so much they wouldn't give it back. We did trade for it though, and I havent got around to replace it. Hence I only lend cheap compasses now <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
The Brunton 8099 eclipse is on my wish list as well, known Down Under as the Silva 99 Eclipse Pro.

I have never had the problem of using the wrong end of my 9020's though because the lanyard attaches closest to you.

Recta I think is owned by Suunto too, but I am not quite sure of the exact relationship between them. They make good quality compasses too, I think it was Recta who gave Suunto the global compass needle. They supply the Swiss Army, but they are a bit short on other attachments <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
My Recta DP6 is one of the better mirror sighting compasses Ive used. Slightly better than my Ranger 15.
It slides apart, and a mirror drops below the compass needle, and it has luminous sights setup across the top like a gun. You sight across the top and look below in the mirror to get the reading. This is easier than looking across the top of the mirror and looking down on the Ranger. The mirror can be pushed out of the way into the body if not needed. It also pushes together so when it is unused it is all protected like a box. Used on a map it has the straight sides, but the ranger has a clear base plate, making the map a little more visable. Held sideways it has a clinometer and it also has a declination adjustment screw on the bottom.

My Personel favorite is Sunnto's M3... I just replaced my 13 year-old M3 with an M3G. Light, simple and reliable. What more can you ask for?

Which proves two things:

#1 - Always attach a lanyard to your compass. I've heard some recommend adding a whistle to the same lanyard.

#2 - I never used the 9020 with a lanyard ... which means I'm foolish enough not to follow rule #1.

I've heard of Recta, but have no experience with them. I always assumed that was a non-U.S. trademark. I think Nexus (or similar) is a trademark sometimes used by Silva SE/Brunton, possibly outside the U.S.

On a slightly different topic, I tend to think of button compasses as emergency, last resort, better than no compass at all compasses. You really can't use them for following a bearing other than the basic 8 rose points - at least not very easily, and they don't play at all well orienteering with maps.

I'm a person who thinks that people who tread outside of familiar suburbia should carry a decent compass, a great map, and a basic GPS w/ extra batteries ... and of course know how to use all three with each other.

Ken K.

Even when following your rule #2, you can feel the lanyard hole in the centre of one end by sliding your finger over it. (tough if you are waring glove though)

As far as I understand it, Silva SE bought Brunton and changed the distribution of their compasses to Brunton, and then found the old distributer had registered the Silva name. So they changed the Silva SE compasses name to Nexus only in the US and left Brunton compasses still branded as Brunton until the merge was complete. Now the Silva SE's seem to use the Brunton name. Then I lost track of Nexus.

Recta has been around for a long time. A while back SAK's had some pouches with a ruler which had a compass, thermometer and magnify glass in it, and I think they did one without the themometer. That was made by Recta.
I noticed earlier when I went to Suunto's web site that they have Recta's rebaged as Suunto's now. The MB6 is a rebadged DP6 or similar.
Its hard to get Suunto's down here, I've never managed to get myself a M3 or a MC2 when Ive tried. But I noticed today that there is a new importer so I fired off an email earlier.
I agree, but have a close look at the Suunto clipper. It has degree marks around the rotating bezel and an index mark, so its better than most button compasses.
I couldnt have said that any better.

If you are looking for an Eclipse 8099, Gander Mountain by me has them for $30...yeap, $30. Everyone else has them for retail, $80

I dont think it has a global needle, so its not tuned for Australia, and is it the pro model or the standard model 8099 you are comparing prices with.

Think it's the pro model actually. I bought one last time they had them in stock. I'll check tonight and let you know.

bubbajoe,

I recommend that you have a good pocket compass and a good base plate compass to use with a map. My favorites are the Suunto Comet in my pocket on a 5" cord and a Brunton 3DLU in my CamelBack.

Thanks for the info. need to do my homework before i buy one. really just looking for an EDC compass. thought the Highgear would cover time, temp and compass all in one. And it's a GADGET!!! Those shinny ,sparkle things get me every time. More of an urban than a backwoods EDC .

Hi Craig!

Heh! I also have those two compasses. I bought the Comet mostly because it was cute and I felt it could be a nice addition to a strap on my Osprey winter pack for snowshoeing trips (although I feel I might bring my full-size compass instead, in the end).

Even if it is small, I think the Comet might be a little big for pant pockets, don't you think? I wonder how long it would survive next to my Leatherman Micra, Photon Freedom and 5-6 keys! <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> It would survive, but it would become scratched as hell... poor thing!! Eeeeek!

If you're looking for something tiny that is EDCable, but will still work with a map, consider the little Suunto Gem . It has a flat edge that can be used to orient a map to north, and it has a rotatable bezel which would allow you to follow a bearing - though not terribly accurate, but better than most button compasses.

Mine is the regular one, not the pro. Seems the pro has a liquid filled leveler but both have adjustable magnetic declination.

hope this helps

Does it use the global needle, or do you need to order it for a specific region?

I like my 3 Silva's. I have the Ranger, Starter, and a BSA special run they did (don't remember the name). I keep the Starter in my mapcase. My BSA stays in my frame pack map pocket. I have the leather case for the Ranger.

I like the Ranger the best.

One warning:

I bought the Brunton 15TDCL, which is the REAL Silva Ranger made by Silva of Sweden.

But then I went and bought the "Silva" leather case, thinking I could use it -- it doesn't fit.

The leather case is made for the U.S. Silva Ranger - that isn't really made by Silva of Sweden.

I don't think Silva/Brunton has a Global Needle. I read somewhere on their site that their compasses are more "robust" against inclination and that they make compasses in only 3 versions instead of the usual 5 - or something like that.

Ken K.

My 9020 does.

Here is the description from the Silva SE web site:
------------------
Who needs a compass more than a globetrotter? The Voyager series features a multi-zone balanced needle that will work regardless where in the world you are. An optic yellow base plate with different map measuring scales as well as a magnetic declination adjustment are standard on all VOYAGER compasses.
----------------
I cant find anywhere that says the Eclipse series is global, or multi-zone balanced as they call it.

Cool!!

Not quite sure. I THINK it's a global needle. I'll break out the instructions tonight and see what it says

I was actually thinking of replacing my lost Ranger with the Voyager 8040 www.silva.se/outdoor/products/comp_voy8040.htm because it has the global needle, and also you sight across the bottom of the mirror with gun type sights.
Unfortunately the mirror still reverses the markings around the bezel though.
My Recta DP6 compass does not reverse the markings in the mirror making it easier to read.

Thanks ... that seems funny reading that because I am already in bed about to go to sleep, typing this up on my laptop. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I agree, feels weird to say that to someone halfway around the world. My day is just starting.

I could be wrong (I know I have been many a time), but would not all needle compasses with a rotating bezel be global in nature. It seems to me the only way for a compass to be adjusted for local/zone declination is with a card or a fixed bezel compass that has been prefixed by the manufacturer for a particular zone.

Pete

Nope, you are right to think that would be the case because you'd think you could just tilt the compass to compensate for the tilt, but the draw-down on the needle due to inclination can be large enough that the needle's pivot point will start to bind up and the needle won't roated freely.

From what I can tell the secret to a global needle is a VERY "tiltable" pivot point that allows you to tilt the compass more than you normally would.

I wish I could find the Silva or Brunton web site where they talked about that.

Got ya, didn't think of that <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Pete

If you read my K&M Matchcase update from Down Under post, I described having to tilt the matchcase 15-20 degrees towards south for the needle to move, and even then it does not move freely. Its pretty awkward when you walk around too.
If you hold the matchcase straight up, it looks funny with theneedle tilted so far. It just doesnot look right.
One of my friends when he went overseas took his Silva/Brunton Ranger 15 to see what would happen. In England he was pointing it on a steep angle to the ground towards North.
Recta came up with an idea that Suunto now uses which has a small magnetic needle with a pivot point that works freely anywhere around the globe inside a slot in a larger needle which uses a standard pivot point and gravity to balance it.
The needle you can see stays balanced by gravity but the smaller needle pushing it inside may have a large tilt where you are standing, and will not bind and stop working.
The Earth Magnetic feild travels between North and South, but the angle of the field varies and is not parallel to the surface, except near the equator. Near the Poles it becomes quite steep.

No the magnet is mounted on a gimble over the needles bearing that allows the magnet to tip independently of the needle but rotate with the needle. The compass is still held horizontally (normally) to the ground no matter which of the compass zones you are in.

Bee,

I keep my Suunto Comet on a 5" loop of thin braided nylon cord I got at Home Depot. Toss the metal ring. Tie one end of the cord on the end of the compass with a cow hitch. Then tie the other end to a belt loop, also with a cow hitch. Then put it in your pocket. I put mine in the watch pocket of my jeans. But it also works if it is just hanging loose into your pocket. To use just pull on the cord. In the past I had one that was not on a cord and I dropped it several times. When it hit the ground it would pop apart into 3 pieces. Now I don't have to worry. If you don't have a belt loop you could use a safety pin.

Hmmm ... I'll have to take a good look at mine again. It is nice knowing that I can take a compass with me when traveling overseas and that it will work.

I got incredibly turned around once while walking in downtown Taipei in Taiwan - all the signs looked the same and none of the streets ran parallel. I REALLY wished I'd brought my GPS and a compass that worked there. I might ask Santa for a Garmin Geko 201 for Christmas - it is small and very easy to carry.

When I ordered my Recta I ordered with the global needle, but after 3 months waiting, I settled on the DP6 with the standard needle.
I searched and settled on the Silva 9020's because they were the cheapest global needle compasses I could find.
I have a response email from the Suunto importer so I will try contacting retailers he suggested to get an M3g to play with, and also some more Clippers.
Ive removed the compass out of the K&M Matchcase (see post K&M Matchcases- Update from Down Under) and took a few pic's of the needle tilt. I will try and post them up on Monday.
If I can get some more Suunto Clippers, which sound hopeful now. I will pull them apart and use the compass centre in the K&M Matchcase.

I got caught a few years back when I went for a quick, short trip out through some pine plantations at night and the weather closed in. I lost my vew of the sky and lost my bearings. I knew the areas South and East of my location but I didnt have a compass in the car. So I took a lot longer than the 30 minutes I'd planned. Similar feeling to your Taipei <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Shows how easy you can get caught out. Ive been EDCing a compass ever since and also keep a one in the car.
I also looked at the Geko, but I like the eTrex better.

Never thought of the global needle issue (new to me). I have a question now. After reading the posts here I understand how it works and for the most part why. I don't know why my Silva would not work everywhere in the northern hemisphere. North should be at a similar angle. Right?

I dont know which angle you ar talking about.
The angle of declination is the angle of difference between True North on a map and Magnetic North shown by you compass. Some compasses have an adjustment to tune the compass into True North so you dont have to convert anything. Your Ranger has this adjustment.
The angle of inclination is the difference between The Earth Magnetic field and the surface of the Earth.
On the Equator The magnetic field is close to parallel to the surface. The magnetic field is steep at either pole. If you get a bar magnet and lay some paper over it then sprinkle iron filings over the paper, you will see the lines of magnetism around the magnet. Near the poles of the magnet you will see some lines go straight up and away. Down the sides they will be parallel to the magnet. The poles sort of act as an entry point to the lines of magnetism.
For example if you get a compass needle that is setup for the equator so it sits parallel to the ground. Then you take that compass close to the border of the US and Canada the needle will be tilted down towards the ground on the North side. If you then take that same compass down here to the bottom of Australia it will be tilted down towards the ground on the South side.
Also the Earth is not a perfect sphere, or even in distribution of minerals and land, so the magnetic field bends and curves from that interverence aswell.
The pivot point of the needle will start to bind and stop or inhibit the rotation of the needle in some locations.
Compass manufacturer have tried many different designs over the years, some better than others. The original style Silva (Sweden) base plate compasses came in 5 different needles, Recta made theirs with 2 different needles, one for Northern Hemisphere and 1 for Southern Hemisphere before they come up with their Global Needle system.

So in answer to your question about your Silva working everywhere in the Northern Hemisphere, I dont know but I expect it would work nearly everywhere except close to the North Pole, but you may have to hold it on a bit of an angle in some places.

In a FAQ in Brunton.com they say:

Question: Does the 8099 have a global needle? Will it work anywhere around the world?

Answer: The needle on the 8099 is specific to a particular region. The three regions are: northern, equatorial, and southern.

Thats different to their product info pages:
www.silva.se/outdoor/products/comp_voy.htm

Nothing like a bit of contradiction to fuel a debate <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I do understand declination and have it set on my Ranger for my location. I now see what the pupose of the "global" needle is for. I never really thought of that aspect of things. I figured that since you are following the curvature of the earth while approaching the poles you would always have the compass horizontal.

Thanks for the lesson!

They are saying the Eclipse 8099 (the fancy compass with the rubber "boot") doesn't have a global needle. Clearly the Voyager is a global needle.

Sorry, my mistake. When I read that, my mind registered the 9020 as the compass in question, not the eclipse.
I get myself confused easily between the Silva-Se local model names, Bruntons slightly different model names.
When talking 'Brunton 8099' in the posts with Brad i opened Bruntons site for refference.
I usually dont reffer to my 9020 by its number except when posting here to clarrify the model I'm talking about. What was the movie that said "I have a name, not a number" ...
So to me its my Voyager <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I usually do fine in the woods or mountains but last time I was in Manhattan it was comforting to know I could count on my map and compass skills instead of the good humor of New Yorkers to point me in the right direction.

Whenever I take the train to downtown Chicago - which I don't do very often - I find that the most confusing time is when I "pop" out of the train station and try to figure out which way is N/S/E/W. I really wish every train station exit had compass rosepoints in the ground (using tiles or brick). Then you could just look down and quickly get a sense of where north is.

I'm heading downtown on Tuesday to take my kids to a museum (Science & Industry or Field - not sure which), and I will surely bring a little compass - probably the little Brunton 9020 - it is pretty pocket friendly.

I also brought that compass along with when my family went to do the Disney thing in Florida. The kids carried them too. My wife just rolled her eyes. The first thing I did was to find a spot in each park where I could determine where true-ish north was on the map. I'd then fold the map so edges were N-S. From then on, when I got turned around, it was very easy to find directions.

Like I said, when I got lost in Taipei is was pretty darn frightening. I had bad jet lag, nothing looked familiar, it was hot & humid, it was dark, and I didn't know if there were safety issues. Having a very simple GPS and a compass on which I could take a bearing would have solved the problem VERY quickly.

Right now I have a Garmin GPS III+. It works fine, but is a tad heavy at about 9 oz. I'm thinking of getting a Garmin Geko at 3 oz. Hmmmm, I need to check to see if the Geko screen is backlit.

Ive posted a picture of the little Suunto compass out of the K&M Matchcase for you to have a look at in this post.
Little Suunto Picture