I.C.E.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned or heard of this yet. its becoming a new trend in "medical alert" tokens to use the I.C.E. message on cell phones. I just come from a meeting today regading public safety, and the trend for all cell phone owners is this. You make a listing under contacts on you cell phone called ICE which stands for In Case of Emergency. First responders will be routinely checking for this information , at accidents, unresponsive patients, etc, Under the ICE listing you are to list a few phone numbers for emergency contacts. ICE link

For what it is worth, my opinion of I.C.E. is not all that great.

From an EMS/Rescue side of things, a contact person is not all that important. My treatment is not likely to vary enough from information gleaned from a contact person, for me to take the time to find the person’s cell phone and look up the information and then call.

There could be serious potential liability issues, if I as a provider cannot verify the person I am talking to on the phone is truly knowledgeable about the patient’s medical situation or is authorized to discuss the patient’s medical condition.

I can see the value for Law Enforcement and hospital ER/EDs but not for EMS/Rescue providers dealing with immediate treatment.

The value of a Medical Alert device is of much higher value, as it provides immediate information that is critical in determining appropriate treatment strategies.

Pete

My cell phone has a pretty confusing user interface (maybe I'll get a better one sometime). I'd hate for some ER to waste time twiddling through it instead of dealing with the immediate condition. I don't see the point of putting this info in a cell phone anyway, instead of (say) on the back of one's drivers license.

I have to agree with ParamedicPete. As a medic myself, Rarely do I go through somebodys cell. Only if I have a child that cannot answer me and nobody who knows is around. And in those cases, they hardley ever have a cell.

its funny i posted the info but agree.......who would ever have the time, except a hospital or friend or what ever...........and like some said, quite a few phones are so complex it woud take a while just to manuver through the menus. I guess its a last ditch back up backup?

-Interesting enough i questioned the info after i posted, made a few calls and found that some of the medical transport aircraft in the local region are acutally going to look for ICE.......again i hope its after they land and im already in the er!!

It occurs to me it might prove invaluable for medical personnel who are trying to contact the next of kin of a terminal patient in order to arrange permission to donate organs. If you are an organ donor, or want to be, it might be wise to record your contact info for that reason.

Regards, VInce

Plus, the most annoying thing is that everytime that person calls, it shows "ICE". My coworkers phone rang, and I answered it. I'm like "who the h*** is ice?". I was thinking he knew some big burly tough as nails person...

I would suspect a terminal ill patient would be under the direct care of a health care provider or family member. If you are talking about a patient whose injuries result in a fatality prior to arriving at the hospital, the body likely becomes the property of the Medical Examiners Office (MEO) until a cause of death is determined. An individual who dies at the hospital may or may not be subject to autopsy by the MEO. In any case the hospital and the family/attending physician would be the “agent” to contact the family regarding organ donation, not EMS/Rescue providers.

The lawyers on the forum can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe in most if not all 50 states, upon death (non suspicious death) your body becomes the property of the family. Your wishes as to your body’s final fate are really not up to you, despite directives in your will, organ donor card, driver’s license directive, etc.

Pete

Pete,
Your correct.........the most immediate family member present is responsible, unless your aware of a child, or spouse whom hasnt' been able to be reached yet.

I would rather that you had you medicines, allergies and past medical history listed in your phone or wallet than ICE. Your relatives are going to find you regardless and everything is going to be all right. I don't need ICE to treat you and quite frankly I'm done with making phonecalls after few incidents last month. But my opinion is only from prehospital point of view...

Now my billing department would be more than happy to have any leads on where to start as far as collecting for my services goes therefore they would love to have some contact info. So in conclusion all the advances are never about patient care but about billing and liability.

A thought on ICE

NO NO NO NO

Since I am also a prehospital provider (EMT-I) I agree there will not be time to look through your cell phone for a particular number to call ?In Case of Emergency!? While I credit the original idea and paramedic in England who thought this up, in the US, I do not have the luxury to look for numbers. I ask everyone who inquires about adding ICE into their cellphones the following questions.

1. Place yourself briefly in the receiving person(s) place for a moment. Imagine how you would feel if you suddenly received a call saying someone that you care about has been in an accident and I (or another co-worker; read complete stranger) inform you of this fact and then try to elicit helpful knowledge. Humans, being what we are, will have a minor (at least) anxiety attack, may try to come to the hospital, or worse, the scene and endanger themselves and others on the road. This is certainly not a good idea. Will you be able to think clearly and remember what the person would like you to remember? In the literal ?heat of the moment? I have known family members who could not locate a DNR order (do not resuscitate) on a loved one. My partner and I have gone ahead with the full resuscitation effort as we are trained and fully believe the patient would have wanted this measure. When the matter has concluded, someone will always find the order, which was within easy reach, but one that was overlooked. I use this to demonstrate the ?panic? people go through when in a crisis.

2. Is the phone locked to restrict access?

3. If I do come onto the scene of a car accident and three of four occupants have cell phones, which are now scattered around the scene, will I select the right one? I have better things to do than search for a cell phone.

4. Is the battery adequately charged?

5. With todays new cell phones, will I be able to scroll to the right menu option to access your phone book? Each manufacturer is different and I do not have time to learn them all; especially at the scene of an emergency. I know the Blackberry is the worst offender for this one.

6. While some believe this may be a way to detonate explosives, I seriously doubt the likelihood of this actually happening; still, it is something to consider.

7. What if the person in the smashed car was talking on the phone when the wreck happened? There may already be someone wanting to know information. Do you want the person you were talking too to know about the accident? I also work in real estate, I certainly do not want a complete stranger knowing anything, or asked anything about me.

8. Law Enforcement and Hospital Social Workers (both are usually present during a trauma call, or this has been my experience) will be making the necessary notifications.

I have a better idea for ICE. Use it, but use it wisely, think about the responsibility you want someone to have. With the recent hurricanes and other disasters, it may not hurt to add numbers under ICE for those times you need to evacuate. You could call each other and find out who is really ok, etc. Maybe Doug could provide a formatted PSK instruction sheet for those who take a cellular along on an outing and then get lost. It would be under ICE, but provide instructions when lost and there is no signal. Who knows, we could save a life.
One last thing here. Matt (polak 187) was right. I could use some info for billing purposes. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Take care,
Stargazer

ASAP = Always Suspicious, Always Prepared

RE the display showing ICE - which is why mine is programmed "ICE Mary"

I had a relative ask me about "I.C.E." from something seen on the internet or a chain e-mail. My response was to forget about it and not partake.

I'd rather have the personnel on scene not worry about digging through my cell phone to possibly look for an "ICE" listing.

Besides, in the worst case scenario, let's say you're separated from all identification. What makes anyone think their cell phone will be left behind or still attached? Or working, for that matter?