A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one)

Posted by: SARbound

A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/19/05 05:20 PM

Okay, I tried making a bug-out bag for my apartment but I just can't seem to do it. I tend to naturally resist doing it.

I live in a 4-story apartment in a suburb, the stairwell is right next to my door. Last week, I bought bottled water to keep in the food cabinet in case something went wrong with the plumping. I also have a Black Cat catalytic heater for warmth in case electricity goes off. That's about as far as I seem to naturally want to "go" in regards to preparedness.

I was planning my BOB... Clothes, tuna cans, cracker boxes, peanut butter jars, water bottles. All of a sudden, it didn't feel quite right. I felt it wasn't really worth it, for my small apartment that is. If there was a real emergency that would require immediate evacuation, I could easily throw a bunch of clothing items, my PSK and some food in a large bag and then leave. Total time needed : 30 seconds.

Not that I am against preparedness and all that, but I think it's important "not to feel stupid" if you don't go with a full-fledged survival solution. If you live in a high-risk environment, go ahead and make a large BOB full of goodies.

I'm only a perfectionist that wants to make other perfectionists aware that extreme preparation is not always required. Don't be so worried and keep on living. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This is just my opinion, if you wish to discuss this please feel free to reply.
Posted by: norad45

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/19/05 05:35 PM

I can guarantee you that if I had 30 seconds to get my stuff together from scratch there is no way I'm not forgetting something important. Imagine doing it in the middle of the night after being awakened from a sound sleep.That's why I pack a few essentials in advance.

Regards, Vince
Posted by: Hghvlocity

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/19/05 05:39 PM

I agree somewhat with your opinion..I'm not overly prepared here in Oklahoma..but my only caution is although you aren't in a "high risk" area, if you have never had to leave your apt in 30 seconds or less...who knows what you might forget to take, or what your frame of mind will be. I was all for getting the wifes bag packed prior to the birth of my oldest and I am glad I did...when she says..time to go...you tend not to think straight, and my life wasn't in jeapordy.

So from that aspect, I would recommend at least preparing a specific bag that all of your contents would go into in that 30 seconds and go ahead and place specific items that you know for a fact you will need...copies of DL, Birth Certificate, credit cards, important papers, flashlight, bottle of water.

Nobody said that your BOB had to weigh a specific amount or contain specific items...but you really should have something. If nothing else know where the bag is that you plan to put the stuff into. Just my opinion. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: Eugene

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/19/05 05:55 PM

What if you don't have 30 seconds? What if its your apartment that is on fire and you can't get put your bedroom door or its your kitchen that is on fire and you must jump out the window in the middle of the night in the winter with no clothing on and then find out that after you went to bed a record blizard hit and the fire trucks can't come to your apartment for a few days.
When I was still in school our neighbors house (about a mile up the road was the closest neighbor) caught fire. They all got out ok but didn't even have time to put on shoes. Their oldest son had to run down the road in the snow to our house to call the fire department so we gave him a pair of shoes and socks because his feet were turning blue by the time he got to our house.
What if your at work and something happens and you can't return to your apartment?
Sure you may not need an extreme bob with a 4 season tent, generator, gps, bow and arrow, mess kit, etc but having a change of clothes and water within reach isn't extreme.
Posted by: GardenGrrl

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/19/05 05:55 PM

I'm new to the forum, and new at "preparing". Although I've been reading ETS for years, I never took any steps beyond preparing to shelter in place. Recently, I decided to get more prepared; both to shelter in place longer and to have things with me all the time just in case. Making a Bug Out Bag is the last on my list of priorities, because like you, I doubt I'll need it. I should say, the proaibility of needing a BOB is so low that I prefer to spend my limited financial means on other preparations, and only when those are in order will I revisit the issue of a BOB.

When I evaluated the things that could go wrong in my local area, the top disasters were: 1. Flash Flood, 2. Severe Storms (leading to Flash Flood). 3. Municipal Inconveniences (Dear Homeowner, Due to road construction in your area there will be no electricity from 1 am to 6 am on these days . . . ) and Mistakes (did we say electricity? We meant *water*), 4. Bad weather and bad roads in some other area of town, effecting the traffic on my side of town, making me wish I never had to leave the house. 5. Winter Ice Storms (rare), leading to downed trees, downed power lines, and shivering neightbors. 6. Grocery shortages, caused by any of the above.

I don't think Bugging Out will be necessary unless there's a fire. Since the smoke alarm goes off whenever I make bacon, I think it will wake us up with at least 60 seconds to grab our clothes and get out. Am I over confident?

I do have alot of stuff in my car. Folding saws, wet wipes, trash bags, extra clothes, mosquito repellent, first aid kit,etc. These are things I use on the job and they turn my whole car into a BOB.

Just my two cents
Posted by: philip

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/19/05 06:02 PM

HI, Bee,

I don't know what your situation is. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, and no one comes around here and says "you have 30 seconds to grab stuff and vacate." If there's an earthquake, we get no advance notice. Trying to grab stuff in the total dark while the room is shaking violently is a problem for me. I need shoes to get down stairs I presume will have broken glass. I want a pair of gloves in case something has collapsed into the stairwell. I want a flashlight and dustmask. That'll get me outside in the dark. Is that what you would have grabbed?

If you have a fire, you need a dustmask. If other people live in your apartment building and are trapped in the stairs, you might want to leave them a glowstick so trained responders can find them in the dark. Or maybe not. :-) I don't know your neighbors.

Maybe you'll want water? A small bottle just for personal use? Taking medicine?

But that's really about it, if it's really a life-threatening, damaging earthquake here in the Bay Area. No clothes, no family pictures, just the stuff I need to actually get outside. My longterm gear is already outside in the patio. (Hope the house falls straight down, though.)
Posted by: SARbound

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/19/05 06:05 PM

Good idea! Having an empty, sturdy bag ready along with a list of the items I wish to bring is a useful addition. I already have a few backpacks and nylon gym bags standing by so it might only be a matter of making a list of things I want to bring.

Very good advice! <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Posted by: SARbound

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/19/05 06:16 PM

Hi Eugene,

I evaluated most of these possibilities before posting this at first. If there's a fire in the kitchen, I will most probably be able to escape in a pinch because there are two different ways to escape.

If the building is on fire, I can grab a my Buff (brand-name stretchable bandana) and run down the stairs, as I said they are right next to my front door.

If there is a record blizzard, I could stay in my apartment and survive for a long time with all my clothing, food, water/soft drinks/juices etc, using my Black Cat heater. (We sustained a big ice storm back in 1998 : an interesting diary of someone who lived this storm can be found here)

The disaster that would most probably cause the most problematic situation would be a huge earthquake. We had a few of these in the last 10 years and the building are generally well built enough to stay in place. Assuming the building would collapse, a bug-out bag would not be of great use if you are stuck under 30 feet of rubble <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

I agree with what you say though. Again, in my first post I was refering to my specific situation, and it might not (most definately, doesn't) apply to everyone.
Posted by: adam

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/19/05 06:35 PM

Not everyone needs a bug-out-bag. If it sets your mind at ease to post on ETS on how you don't need one good for you.

I on the other hand find the need to stock up on more supplies than ever before.

Adam
Posted by: adam

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/19/05 06:41 PM

If you make the list why not pack it......... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

But as you've said you don't need a BOB...... <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Adam
Posted by: fugitive

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/19/05 06:44 PM

I tend to have a KISS (Keep it Simple Survival) philosophy. I don’t attempt to prepare for every possible outcome or disaster. Unless preparedness is your hobby and you have significant discretionary income, trying to cover all bases is an inefficient investment of time, energy and money.

I look to the 90% and that is good enough for me. The simple truth is most of us on this newsgroup will die of heart-attacks, strokes, cancer, car crashes, or just plain old age. All these fancy kits will be of little use here. Avoiding death or severe injury from man made disasters or Mother Nature’s fury with the contents of our survival bags is a little like winning the lottery. You are still more likely to get run down by a car while you are on a crosswalk, than to repel down a burning building with contents from your bat-utility-belt. And just forget about taking flying lessons on the slim chance that you may someday be on a flight where terrorists have taken over the plane and killed the pilot. You somehow use the fishing kit, mirror, and duct tape in your EDC as weapons to subdue the terrorists, then safely land the plane and its passengers. OK that is a bit extreme, but I am trying to make a point.

That said, I live in earthquake/volcano country and prepare accordingly. I don’t really have a BOB per se. I have plenty of items around the house that can be grabbed on short notice and tossed into my LandCruiser wagon. My camping kits are all modular and stored together (All the kitchen items are in one Rubbermaid container, all the camping hardware in another, the tents and bags all together). If I need camping gear, I grab it and toss in what I need. I have a well stocked pantry. Grab another Rubbermaid tote and fill it with food, etc. All my important documents and back-up files from my PC are in one storage container in a safe. You get the picture. If all else fails, I run to my truck and use the basic kit I have stashed there as a start. Not perfect, but better than nothing.

In a rush you don’t want to forget anything important. The trick is to have a bug out checklist (BOC). If the dung hits the fan, grab the list, grab a duffle and start stuffing. While much slower than having a BOB, it is much more efficient than just running around in a daze grabbing anything in sight and leaving critical items behind. My plans are really geared to stay in place and ride out disasters. If this cannot be done, I can have a complete set of luxury bug-out gear put together inside 10 minutes.

There are many in this group that I consider KSS (Kitchen Sink Survivalist). I bid them no ill will. If they enjoy the preparedness hobby or need extensive preparations for peace of mind then they are doing the right thing as well. There is no “ones size fits all” solution here.

My advice: Be honest with yourself. What are the most likely to occur disasters in your area, that you can significantly improve your chances with some basic preparedness? How much time and money are you willing to spend getting ready? Follow through and make whatever preparations you feel are prudent. Then, enjoy life knowing you are 100x better prepared than your foolish neighbors.

Even the most basic BOB, your wits, skill, health, knife and flashlight, puts you miles ahead of the average joe on the street.

Best wishes to all,

TR


Posted by: Eugene

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/19/05 06:57 PM

Well that smoke alarm won't wake you up to a flash flood.
My 7th grade year in school the small town where I want to school in was beside a river and the residnets were used to flooding there as they had had a few small floods in the past. But for some reason this one year debree got caught on a railroad bridge upstream from the town and created a small dam. No one in the town knew it and after a day or so the water had risen to a record level behind that dam and then it burst and caused a flash flood 10 times larger than anyone ever expected so sheltering in place ended up not being an option for many poeple.
I don't plan on bugging out unless I have to either, packing up the wife and cats and soon a newborn baby will be a lot of effort, however I realize there could come a time when it becomes necessary. I don't have a bob per say, what I have is prganized gear. I keep my stock of food, water, camping supplies in different sotrage containers/bags/boxes/whatever labeled and organized so I know where to find something when I want it. This is my survive in place supply that I could also grab and go if needed.
Posted by: Eugene

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/19/05 07:01 PM

The question is what if the fire is by your door so you can't grab your Buff and go down the stairs. A bob could be helpful in an earthquake as people have been known to survive a few days under a pile of rubble until rescue workers dug them out, if your bob is always within reach it will be under that pile in the "cave" your in with you making you able to survive it easier.
I actually don't have a BOB myself in the normal sense of a bob. I have all my shelter in place gear organized and stored in different rooms and in different containers/bags/boxes that make it all portable. If I do need to bug out then I grab whatever is near me and go and my shelter in place gear becomes my bug out gear.
Posted by: fugitive

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/19/05 07:11 PM

Quote:
What if you don't have 30 seconds? What if its your apartment that is on fire and you can't get put your bedroom door or its your kitchen that is on fire and you must jump out the window in the middle of the night in the winter with no clothing on and then find out that after you went to bed a record blizard hit and the fire trucks can't come to your apartment for a few days.


Personally, if my house is on fire the last thing I am looking for is a lousy BOB. Getting my family and me out is my only priority.

I have stashed in my closet a large fire extinguisher, filter mask, goggles, gloves, crowbar, boots, and an emergency window ladder. I get the people out and let the fire dept. and insurance company worry about the rest. I have lived in this neighborhood for 20 years and would be taken in by several neighbors without hesitation.

There are hundreds of potential, by very unlikely scenarios, where my system would fail. There is no system that can cover all outcomes. How about, "During a blizzard, a dirty bomb attack by terrorists triggers a 9.0 earthquake. At the same time your BOB is the victim of spontaneous combustion (some bizarre cocktail of fire starter, waterproof matches, butane and your stale cotton skivvies). The bag torches your house, which then collapses on your car.” Now what?

Look to the most likely scenarios and prepare accordingly. The rest of it is likely out of your hands anyway.

TR
Posted by: Arney

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/19/05 07:14 PM

Quote:
The simple truth is most of us on this newsgroup will die of heart-attacks, strokes, cancer, car crashes, or just plain old age. All these fancy kits will be of little use here.


Wise words, pizzaman.

That said, so ETSers, is an Altoids or a Sucrets tin more effective at protecting my garage door opener against the electromagnetic pulse from a nuclear blast? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: Fitzoid

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/19/05 07:31 PM

Quote:
The simple truth is most of us on this newsgroup will die of heart-attacks, strokes, cancer, car crashes, or just plain old age. All these fancy kits will be of little use here.


Hey, stop spoiling our fun! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Actually, I think you're missing an important point. A major benefit of preparing for disasters is psychological. It helps calm down worries and makes living in a crazy, unpredictable world a little bit easier. That is priceless and it may just help postpone that heart attack you're forecasting.
Posted by: Paul810

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/19/05 07:36 PM

A backpack with a blanket, a change of clothes, water, a few protein bars, a flashlight, lighter, and a good multitool wouldn't cost much to assemble, takes up little room, and when kept by the door could be grabbed on the way out, another could be assembled and kept in the car. If there is a flood, fire, earthquake, ect that is enough to hold you over atleast for a day until you can get yourself back together and can figure out your next course of action. For me that is reasonable, even if you never have to use it.
Posted by: snoman

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/19/05 08:00 PM

Bee, I'm wary about those catalytic heaters. They're only designed to heat a small area (like a tent). They only put out 3000 BTU's and last only 6/7 hours on one tank. That's really not that much. I can't say anymore as I don't own one. I can say I do own some 23,000 BTU heaters that will just make my (very modest) home livable. By livable, I mean just warm enough to keep the pipes from freezing. I'd think those little heaters would be like lighting a couple of candles.
I agree many of us get carried away trying to prepare for every possible scenario (myself most definitely included!!), but I don't see a problem with a small bag left in a closet by the door or in the trunk of a car with a change of clothes and a few other things that could come in handy (a small first aid kit, a bottle or two of water, some Powerbars, flashlight, dust masks, etc.). As for your "30 seconds" of throwing some stuff in a bag, I wouldn't count on it. If there is an emergency unfolding at that time, you'll find you won't be thinking too rationally. Also, what if you're not at home if and when this emergency hits? What if you come home to find nothing left? That little bag and its contents might come in handy. Like the Grand Poobah says: "Chance favors only the prepared and equipped" <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: fugitive

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/19/05 08:05 PM

Quote:
Hey, stop spoiling our fun!

Actually, I think you're missing an important point. A major benefit of preparing for disasters is psychological. It helps calm down worries and makes living in a crazy, unpredictable world a little bit easier. That is priceless and it may just help postpone that heart attack you're forecasting.


To quote Ed McMahan "You are correct sir". My peace of mind is greatly improved by making my preparations. I think the problem lies in "NOT" being able to achieve peace of mind through preparations. Some will always find a potential weakness in their solutions and continue in a never-ending journey in the unachievable quest for absolute preparedness. They will never feel comfortable and will always be on edge. Just not a healthy approach. At some point enough is enough when it comes to practical preparedness.

I've tried to keep all my kits "no nonsense" and simple. I have enough preparations made that I feel "prepared" and I take comfort in that. I am now able to switch to the enjoyable hobby side of preparedness/survival. I have a nice little Maxpedition bag that I am stuffing with all sorts of cool survival goodies as a personal survival pouch. I could cut the list in this bag in half and still be well prepared. I could have purchased lower cost substitutes for most items included. But this is my Bag-o-fun. After all, boys must have their toys. This allows me to keep the rest of my kits more sensible, yet allows me to have fun with survival. This little bag limits how much playing I can do (I can only stuff so much into this rugged pouch, but I am pushing it to pregnant looking proportions).

My philosophy is Keep It Simple. Take comfort in the preparations you have made. And have the sense and wisdom to separate your serious preparations from the fun/hobby side of survival. You want to live longer??? Change your diet, meditate, and get some exercise.

Cheers,

TR (Deciding he better take his own advice on the last three items).



Posted by: sodak

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/19/05 08:06 PM

When I wake up, it takes me a while to get my bearings. This I know from personal experience. I keep 2 things by the bedroom door. One is my pants, complete with wallet, car keys, knife, money, etc., ready to go. The other is a small fireproof box with copies of important documents, etc. That way I only have to grab 2 things on my way out of the bedroom door on my way to get my kids out of the house. Obviously, I'm thinking fire, but this would work for earthquake, etc.
Posted by: cedfire

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/19/05 08:46 PM

Like others have posted, you don't always know how much time you'll have, if any, when a disaster or emergency occurs.

I myself would have a hard time remembering exactly what to pack at 2 a.m. in the morning, whether I had 30 seconds or 30 minutes to complete the task.

Having the basics already prepared -- some water, food, warm clothing, flashlight, knife, etc. -- it sure can't hurt.

I'm sure there are forum members here who carry very minimal EDC all the way to those with distant bug-out locations picked and gear caches buried.

Besides, being prepared is a great way to sleep better at night. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: ironraven

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/19/05 09:21 PM

Well, I don't have a BOB, per say. However, I keep a change of clothes, toiletries, a poncho and heavy boots in my car (ever wake up someplavce you didn't plan on? I have). My EDC stays in my jeans, which sit on a chair next to my sneakers at night. I have my jacket on a peg next to the door.

I'm good on gear, ok on water, and set on calories *pokes jiggly belly* if I have to run out the door in the middle of the night.

If I know I'm looking at a storm, the BOB get's put together. The rest of the time, most of the BOB-ish stuff lives in a milk crate in the closet that has my jacket and the backpack that really should be dedicated to BOB but usually has school books in it. Realistically, I can evac with it in 15 minutes, if I bother to put everything in BOB properly, rather than just tossing my pack on my back, grabbing the milk crate, and going. Grabbing the milk crate, my better boots, and the bag of my camping socks (next to the better boots) takes about a minute.

And if it is an ordered evactuation for something moving slow, I take ten minutes and pull my harddrive. For me to leave my computer (or at least his soul) behind is like leaving a pet behind. I could do it, but when I had time to mourn Lazarus, I would. (Yes, I'm emotionally attached to my computer. I'm a geek.)

Oh, and Bee, for point of reference, I'm about 1.5 degrees south of you, and maybe a degree east. So we are largely in the same boat, you just get an hour or two before I do.
Posted by: Marc

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/19/05 09:30 PM

At the risk of beating a horse (dead or otherwise), I tend to agree with the above opinions. I fancy myself as a "Practical" person. So breaking it down:

>>Don't be so worried and keep on living.

Nobody is worried, a) they have already made all resonable precautions, or b) they don't think it can happen to them. Either way no one is worring.

>>If there was a real emergency that would require immediate
>>evacuation, I could easily throw a bunch of clothing items, my
>>PSK and some food in a large bag and then leave.

Possibly yes, always no. Not in every emergency is it totally clear what is going on. And not every emergency lends itself to last minute preparations. Generally, emergencies are unpredictable, if they were predictable, they would just be events, and there would be folks drinking beer and eating hotdogs outside the venue.

Finally, just as I stated under another thread. The value is not that you will have to use your BOB. The value is if you choose to use it, it will be ready. I personally think it is a mistake to think you can be just as effective/complete in assembling a BOB in 30 seconds as in 30 minutes (especially considering you could be living out of it for 30 hours or days). The quality of the kit will suffer. Last, while your assembling your Bag, the guy down the road is Bailing.

No offense intended, just my observations. I too wrestle with what events are practical to prepare for, so I just focus on the conditions I would like to avoid.

Marc
Posted by: Hghvlocity

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/19/05 09:41 PM

I'll offer up my reasons. In my case, I don't have the funds to keep a fully stocked BOB. In many cases I only have one of a particular item and while I would like to have it in my BOB..putting it there and having to rumage everytime I need it is not for me..I choose to leave it in it's standard place and then if I need to pack in a hurry mark it off the list. A good example for me is a tool kit, you know, basic screwdrivers, sockets, wrenches...but I don't purchase duplicates, it's just on my list to grab. Works for me, but as funds come available, I purchase an extra item or two. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: groo

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/19/05 10:10 PM

Quote:
A major benefit of preparing for disasters is psychological.


That, and it's a very good justification for almost any toy. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I would most likely have bought a lot this stuff (/me looks around) anyway, but now I'm "prepared".

Posted by: Fitzoid

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/19/05 10:28 PM

Quote:
That, and it's a very good justification for almost any toy.

Listen here buddy. Let's get this straight: my essential survival gear are not toys. They are serious life-saving devices that have no play value whatsoever. They are absolutely necessary to the welfare of myself and others for miles around. They are totally non-frivolous and have no entertainment value. For example, that new Prybaby I'm ordering needs the high-voltage titanium snakeskin finish to make it, um, more visible in dim light, see? It's an absolute necessity, totally guided by logic and a mature approach to being prepared. Just cause I'm going to cradle it like a baby and sleep with it under my pillow does not make it a toy in any way. I know all you fine gentlemen agree with me.

P.S. Did I mention that my wife sometimes like to browse through this forum?

<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/19/05 10:32 PM

I figure, if I've got the stuff lying around somewhere I'm ok. I can fish it out, pack it and bug out. The point is to have the gear in the first place. I like camping, so I have all the stoves, lanterns sleeping bags, cookware etc? I?ll ever need.
It?s all packed in plastic tubs & labelled. I just need to grab the containers and run.

Yes, if this ever happens, I know I?ll be missing some gear and saying: ? I shoulda, coulda, woulda? ? and kicking myself in the rear.

But that?s life and that?s human nature ?
<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: groo

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/19/05 10:34 PM

Fitzoid, you are absolutely correct. These are not toys. I posted in the wrong window. Thought I was on a completely different forum. Totally unconnected with this one. Silly me. Shouldn't try to do so many different things at once. Anyone reading your post will recognize the truth and sagely wisdom contained therein. Honestly, I'd rather not spend so much money on preparedness equipment, but my family's well being is my primary concern, and therefore money is no object.

j00 0w3 /\/\3, n00b. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Posted by: Fitzoid

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/19/05 10:47 PM

Yes, I figured you meant to post on a forum about Lego or something. Just a simple mistake. It's hard to work these darn computers!

7h4nk5 br07h3r! 1 0w3 y0u b1g 71m3! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/19/05 10:53 PM

So what do you camp in? Why not just keep your camper stocked and ready to go?

Mike...
Posted by: Craig_phx

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/19/05 11:45 PM

I have to admit my family has no bug-out-bags. Everyone has a CamelBack that has PSK items. They do not have water in them if we are not out hiking or camping. If we had to evacuate we would need to pull together clothes, food, water, and any camping gear that might seem appropriate at the moment. I’m working on getting everyone a duffle bag to put their clothes and things in when we go camping. That would be their individual bug-out-bag.

It takes us at least 4 hours to pull out, stage, and pack our car for camping. Then we need to run to the store for all the little missing items. I know we should have bug-out-bags, ready to go, but I can’t get my wife to go along with it. If we have to evacuate we will be at the end of the line of cars heading out of Phoenix. All the stores and gas stations will picked clean by the time we need anything.

Some kind of dirty bomb or nuke seems like the most likely scenario here in Phoenix. It is like LA, it is just too big of an area to destroy with a localized event. We have houses spread out as far as the eye can see.
Posted by: Nomad

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/20/05 12:26 AM

OK, Right now...not later.. BugOUT!...
It will only take "30 seconds", so practice it RIGHT NOW!!!!

NO not later...NOW

See how you feel about it after you have done it.

Nomad
Posted by: NIM

Interesting study on quick evacuations - 09/20/05 12:48 AM

For my own research (to understand those who do not prepare in advance) and for my friends benefit I conducted the following study:

I selected 18 people at random (of those friends I felt wouldn't freak out) and offered them $50 for a maximum of one hour work. All of them set aside an hour and I came over to their houses/apartments. I then said the following to them:

"An emergency has occurred that requires you to evacuate as soon as possible. You are to take the items you feel you would need to survive outside of the city. You may not be able to return to a functioning city. Do not expect to be rescued. Begin now. You are being timed."

None of the participants were serious survivalists at the time.

Ages were from 23-40 years old

The following was observed:

1) Not one person had a kit ready to go.
2) All of them were thinking out loud as they prepared their kits for their families. The thinking did not follow a logical order.
3) Everyone chose some type of backpack for their gear.
4) Not one had ALL of the following: A knife, A means to start fire, A pot to boil water.
5) 8 people after the exercise created a bug out pack for future use.
6) One year after the exercise only 1 person had a bug out pack. The others had used pack items and would have to reassemble the kit.
7) All participants learned A GREAT deal! Every one of them felt they'd do better the next time. Of the 3 people retested all 3 had all the critical items and more (although they had to assemble a kit from scratch)
8) Although there was no specific time limit other than to evacuate 'as soon as possible' the mean time was 14 minutes until they were out the door. The shortest was 2 minutes the longest 23 minutes.
9) Everyone was very stressed while running the test. Oddly, they all had emotional reactions like it was somewhat real. Including yelling at each other to hurry or yelling angrily to get certain items.
10) All of them found it fun. This may have been the most surprising thing for me. I suspect a great portion of that was due to the fact that they thought they'd have to work to make the $50 each. This could also explain why they took it emotionally seriously.
11) All of them forgot to take RX meds including antibiotics they were on and birth control. Some even forgot needed eye glasses. Only 4 took their wallets/ID.

During the initial exercise most didn't have any knives (some had flimsy $1 kitchen knives with a serrated edge). Fire starters were lighters or paper matches. Clothing was almost all cotton. Every one forgot to take water (although some had canned goods with high water content). As stated earlier Not one had ALL of the following: A knife, A means to start fire, A pot to boil water.

I created lists of what people took. Some items were rather amusing.

What I learned:

1) The average person in an evacuation will likely forget key survival items.
2) They will take about 14 minutes to evacuate IF they feel some sort of time pressure.
3) Anyone who takes this test is changed long term. In the event they have to evacuate they will make far better choices. Yay! Humans can learn!
4) Without further encouragement sloth and habit will degrade most material benefits. Packs were canablized for camping and daily use. The need to maintain said packs was overridden by convenience.


Of the three who were retested two were given a call in the middle of the night to evacuate (I was outside their door with a cellphone) They had no prior warning (these friends were obviously closer to me. I felt comfortable that they wouldn't be upset by the request and since they direly needed money at the time they were actually quite happy about it.

Something to think about anyway. If you ever want to teach non-survivalists to think correctly in an evacuation run this test on them.

-NIM
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Interesting study on quick evacuations - 09/20/05 01:48 AM

Excellent Post

May I also openly admin that I am Guilty as charged too.

Although I am guilt of ratting my stash. I have evolved a system where things are in reach and labled ready to go, With the basic kit already packed.
So I would put myself in the 2 to 5 minute range.
Posted by: ironraven

Re: Interesting study on quick evacuations - 09/20/05 02:47 AM

That's why I drill on building my BOB.

I'm lucky my roommate thinks like I do, otherwise, he'd think I'm nuts.
Posted by: TeacherRO

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/20/05 02:52 AM

Good point -- Its one thing to plan a saturday afternoon rehersal and a whole other to wake up at three am with no electricity and try and get organized...
Posted by: GardenGrrl

Re: Interesting study on quick evacuations - 09/20/05 02:53 AM

I plan to drill myself every now and then, on a quiet day when I am the only one home and no one can make fun of me. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Now that I've read other people's responses on the forum, I've changed my mind about a BOB. I was going to save it until my EDC, PSK, and Shelter-In supplies were all complete. But now I think I'll just go ahead and set aside a few small things that won't be missed in my day to day life. That backpack I'm not using, spare clothes, the toothbrush and toothpaste samples I got from my last visit to the dentist, a few other things. Although redundancy is good and all that, I can't afford to buy two or three of every survival item, so I'll have to make my BOB with the idea that my EDC and PSK are coming along with me when I Bug-Out.

Thanks for the thought provoking thread!
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/20/05 03:19 AM

I think the ETS Homepage somes it up best.
"Chance favors only the prepared and equipped"

Which leaves the next question:
What is chance and how do we prepare and equip for it?

The fact that you are reading these forums, and visiting the ETS homepage suggests that SOME of these questions are being asked and answered for you/us/me.

We all read these treads, and have our thoughts provoked. Subconsiously we evaluate what suits us, and what can we do better. (and say I wish I had the money for that)

So am I prepared for everything ..... A: No
Am I prepared for something ...........A: Yes

Its a start and I"m happy with what I've done so far. But within myself I like to improve.
I have researched my area and found some of the threats. I have researched my workplace and ocupation and found some of the threats.
I have looked into other industries, ocupations, hobbies, here etc for ideas how they deal with threats/situations.

Gone are my younger days when I was indistructable and knew it all. Chance let me survive those, but as I learn from seeing others who didn't (Or almost didnt)
I've made the decision to take charge of surviving the rest.
What I've discovered is its not just preparing, its a lifestyle.

What I or others say you should do, will only be effective if it suits your situation, abilities and commitment, or the right variety of chance comes around.

So look, listen, read and evalate what you think suits you best.
But when the chance hits the fan, its your decisions made now which might save you.
Posted by: wolf

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/20/05 03:23 AM

I can empathize with the lack of funds for a fully stocked BOB. I can't fully stock mine 24/7 either, but I have it mostly packed. In a backpack I have the basic things and detail things - things that I can afford to set aside - a metal cup, a first aid kit, a knife, stuff for fire, a heavy duty sportsman's survival blanket - some food / water. A wool hat, gloves, 550 cord, flashlight - you get the picture. I don't have clothes or shoes in the BOB because I can't aford an extra set or two. I don't have my tent or sleeping bag in the bob - the bag because I use it as a blanket and the tent because it will go into a second pack - with clothes tossed when it's time to go. These are the only missing items though. If I have time to grab more stuff - more food, more water etc - fine - but if not - the back pack will suffice and I won't have to think about whether or not I tossed in the matches yet - it's all there. To each his own, though. THis works for me. YMMV.
Posted by: paulr

Re: Interesting study on quick evacuations - 09/20/05 03:39 AM

I don't have a BOB. I do have some overnight stuff in my regular daypack in case I spend the night away from home, a fairly routine thing for me. It has toothbrush, toothpaste, a few meds, SAK, a change of socks and UW, sunglasses, etc. I don't know what I'd add to it in a bugout except maybe a few extra waterbottles (0.5 liter) and possibly some canned food. There's no knife except the SAK. So I think I'd be out within 1 or 2 minutes. I don't feel a need for a more serious knife and it would probably just cause trouble (urban environment). One item not mentioned is a radio. I have a tiny earpiece one that was $5 at Walgreens. It wouldn't occur to me to bring a cooking pot or firestarter or fishing gear or anything like that. The city is not going to suddenly turn into Gilligan's Island. I guess I'd bring my 440 mhz ham HT just because I have it, but wouldn't buy one for a BOB (some cheap FRS radios maybe).

I do have some supplies in my car (a couple dozen 0.5L waterbottles, FRS radios, a few other things) that I might try to snag even if the roads are unusable. I'd figure on total traffic hell and might try to exit by mountain bike rather than by car. A motor bike would be even better but in other regards is not really my style so I can't see buying one.

Computer: yeah, maybe I'd bring it (small laptop) or at least its hard drive. I do have off-site backups but they're way out of date. If I had my act together I'd update the backups more often (everyone should do that). I'll do that "soon" and may also post a thread with some ideas about how to do it.

Copies of documents (fireproof box?!): I'm having trouble figuring out what docs this could be. What docs would I need during a bugout? Drivers license, passport: originals are needed, not copies. Important business/legal papers: that should all be scanned into a computer and backed up remotely, or stored in a safe deposit box, not stuck in a bugout bag. Photos: digital rules, 'nuff said.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Interesting study on quick evacuations - 09/20/05 03:51 AM

One idea for the computer is to backup to a USB drive. I have one on my keyring.

For Important documents have a read through the Disaster Prep articles linked from the ETS Home Page (I cant remember exactly where to look but it in one of them)
Posted by: Frankie

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/20/05 04:01 AM

I think a serious BOB needs more than just throwing the obvious like clothing, a knife, water, food, etc in a duffel bag. You have to prepare carefully your personal emergency contact information like addresses and numbers of area hospitals (as many as you can in your area), the police department number, the local poison control center number, emails of all your family members and contacts because sometimes emails can get through when calls cannot, etc. It takes some time and meticulousness, not only money investment. Your BOB is relative to your emergency plan and if it doesn't call for one, so be it. Don't put one together...
Posted by: MGF

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/20/05 04:04 AM

If it works for you and you're happy, rock on.

I live in a 2nd floor apartment not far from Chicago and within a 20-minute drive of one of the country's largest refineries.

I've got an emergency bag in the truck, another in the apartment. A few gallons of water in the apartment, 6 liters in the truck, emergency rations in both. Still intend to put together somethiing closer to a truer BoB with some clothing, toiletries, etc. and to throw some MREs in the truck and in the apartment.

What's it all for? Darned if I know ... but I feel better knowing it's there.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/20/05 04:09 AM

-----------------------------------------------------------------
That said, so ETSers, is an Altoids or a Sucrets tin more effective at protecting my garage door opener against the electromagnetic pulse from a nuclear blast?
------------------------------------------------------------------

After testing this out, mine survived the electromagnetic pulse, but the blast damaged the polished mirror surface.
So now I will have to find another solution for a signal mirror in case this ever happens again in an emergency situation. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: BachFan

Re: Interesting study on quick evacuations - 09/20/05 04:29 AM

There's also a thread from a couple of years ago -- when there were several bad fires in California -- called How Much Data is in Your BOB which has some useful suggestions.
Posted by: benjammin

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/20/05 07:16 AM

Okay, I am ready to interject here.

One morning last week I found myself lying on the floor waiting for the 2nd mortar to land. The first one was about 200 yards out. When the security blows the whistle, that means get to the bunker NOW. As the whistle blew, I got up off the floor, grabbed my body armor and my BOB and ran for the bunker. If things get worse than that, we will be loaded from the bunker into armored vehicles and evacuated. At the point where evac is imminent, we cannot get back to our rooms, our offices, or anywhere else on the compound. We cannot leave the bunker, and all that we have with us may be all we will have for an indefinite time.

There isn't thirty seconds, and it is difficult to think about anything else but getting to the bunker. You cannot think about what you need to grab and bring with you, beyond what you have been drilled to grab and bring.

So I guess my question is why not have a BOB? Cost can't be much of a factor, size restriction shouldn't either (hey, you should see the size of the trailer I am living in). Maybe you will have an additional thirty seconds, maybe not. Why take the chance if you don't have to? It is better to have a thing and not need it, than to need a thing and not have it.

BOBs don't have to be extravagant to be practical. They just have to be handy. The only time I would leave mine behind is if I have to run for my life, in which case the body armor will probably get left behind as well. Unless I am in bed or the shower, I can make do for a bit with what I have on me, but it isn't enough for all occasions.

The BOB is the answer to a whole lotta "What If" scenarios. It isn't going to be a panacea, you need a lamp with a genie in it to cover every contingency. It goes back to my slogan:

Chance favors the prepared mind.

Nix the heater. You want water, survival tools (knife, firestarter, navigation), a little high energy food, a change of clothes, and something that will make a halfway decent emergency shelter. Water is probably your biggest BOB need.

Just speaking from experience. Inbound mortars can simulate a lot of situations for which a BOB is needed.
Posted by: adam

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/20/05 01:09 PM

Quote:
BOBs don't have to be extravagant to be practical.


I think this a point missed by most. I love my Surefire and my Inova's but if the crap hit the fan, don't you think that a mini mag would make you very happy to have. Think about the people that bugged out in NO. Some only had the cloths on their backs. Make your BOB cheap if you have to.

Adam
Posted by: StuToffee

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/21/05 06:49 PM

Just like MGF, I feel better knowing my BOB is there. I keep a Bergen in the boot (Sorry, Cousins! The TRUNK!!) of my car. 3 days worth of British Army Ratpacks, Water, Becker BK7, Stove, E-tool, Tarp, Hiking Shelter (Small tent!), Cordage, Toilet paper, wash kit, mess kit, Radio, Clothes, Flashlight, Petrol can, Baton, Survival Kit, Matches, Candles, etc) Certainly enough to keep me going for a cpl of days, and I'd add to my supplies "along the way". Shame our weapons laws are so crazy, could do with some form of SD better than the baton, E-tool Or BK7.
Posted by: Ors

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/22/05 02:04 PM

Quote:
Look to the most likely scenarios and prepare accordingly. The rest of it is likely out of your hands anyway.

This has been my spousal challenge. My wife gets grumpy when she thinks I'm spending too much on stuff "that she doesn't even want and will never use". She says, "When it's my time to go, I can't do anything about it anyway."

I tell her that it doesn't mean we can't do everything possible to put off that time!

So I continue to prepare.
Posted by: Ors

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/22/05 02:13 PM

Quote:
Actually, I think you're missing an important point. A major benefit of preparing for disasters is psychological. It helps calm down worries and makes living in a crazy, unpredictable world a little bit easier. That is priceless and it may just help postpone that heart attack you're forecasting


It's like my martial arts skills; I hope I don't ever have to use them to defend myself or someone I care about. That doesn't stop me from going to practice. But I feel more secure knowing that I have some control if I were ever attacked physically. I believe it is that sense of control, that helps put humans at a little more ease.

Of course there is always going to be that person that is a more skilled martial artist (or has a nasty weapon) or there is going to be an emergency situation that we aren't quite prepared for, but if we feel that we have some control, the psychological effect can be overwhelmingly positive.

As the song says, "In the end, it doesn't even matter". We prepare ourselves in the ways that best suit our needs, in order to gain that sense of control, but in the end, none of us have very much control over anything at all. But that doesn't mean we don't feel better preparing as best we can.
Posted by: fugitive

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/22/05 04:38 PM

Quote:
It's like my martial arts skills; I hope I don't ever have to use them to defend myself or someone I care about. That doesn't stop me from going to practice. But I feel more secure knowing that I have some control if I were ever attacked physically. I believe it is that sense of control, that helps put humans at a little more ease.

Of course there is always going to be that person that is a more skilled martial artist (or has a nasty weapon) or there is going to be an emergency situation that we aren't quite prepared for, but if we feel that we have some control, the psychological effect can be overwhelmingly positive.

As the song says, "In the end, it doesn't even matter". We prepare ourselves in the ways that best suit our needs, in order to gain that sense of control, but in the end, none of us have very much control over anything at all. But that doesn't mean we don't feel better preparing as best we can.


May I add to this sage advice-

It's not practical or possible to prepare for every possible danger, or even assure a good outcome. I say don’t even try. Do what you can do, do it logically, and take comfort that you are much better prepared than the hopeless masses. There is life beyond the PSK after all. (Note: potential blasphemy).

Sometimes just tipping the odds in our favor can reap great rewards. Take a lesson from the gambling casinos in Las Vegas. That little green spot on the roulette wheel guarantees fortunes will be made by the house. They don’t need 10 of these squares, one works nicely, thanks. Much of the rest of that industry works on the same principal. Get a slight edge in the odds and run with it. “C’mon, baby needs new shoes”.

Just put together a basic, nothing fancy, EDC, PSK, BOB, and 7-10 day kit (the artist formerly known as the 72hr kit). Take a bit of martial arts or other defense training. I can see the headlines now… (Pay per view), “Prepared Man” (or woman, lest I offend anyone) vs. “Lazy Neighbor Guy” (or Gal), going toe to toe in the earthquake event of the century!. Watch “Prepared Man” as he smoothly reaches into his PSK to deal with crisis after crisis. A veritable whirling dervish of multi-tools and duct tape. See “Lazy Neighbor Guy” cower and panic as the comfortable world that he knows crumbles about him. See him crawl under the coffee table and assume the fetal position with his thumb in his mouth!

A bit silly, but I would really like to know what kind of odds a professional odds maker would give comparing you with a modest kit and some modest training, to a totally unprepared, PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. like, next door neighbor in the same crisis.

My money is on the folks in this group.

TR
Posted by: benjammin

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/23/05 06:41 AM

Simply put:

"Chance Favors the Prepared Mind"

It isn't the gadgets that make us survivors, it is the mindset and our ability to think and prepare mentally for such an event.

We are given in this world everything we need to get by. We don't need high levels of technology and industry to manufacture anything we have to have. The one thing we can do for ourselves to get through darned near any situation is gather applied knowledge. That's it. The rest is gravy.
Posted by: MGF

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/23/05 08:37 AM

Coffee makes me a survivor. That's why there's some and a metal cup in all my kits. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: lazermonkey

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/26/05 05:40 AM

I am replying as if I have not read any of the other replies. Go now, you have 30 sec. to find a bag and fill it with what you will need for an unknown amount of time. Come back and tell us what you got. Every one should try this. <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
I would love to see what we forgot, remembered, etc.
Posted by: lazermonkey

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/26/05 05:50 AM

<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />This is what I got. Backpack, 12 cans of soup, 2 liters of water, my purse, some matches, and sun glasses.
<img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />This is what I didn't get. Shoes, socks, large 1st aid, more water & food, my computer, duckt tape, blanket, large flash light.
This has inlightend me that I could at least put food & water, first aid, and a space blanket in a small duffle bag. That would have saved 15 sec.

P.S. I already was dressed for the day with edc and no shoes.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/26/05 06:06 AM

And how long did you take?

I will try this tonight when I get home from work and see what happens.
Posted by: paulr

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/26/05 07:53 AM

12 cans of soup and no can opener? Oops. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/26/05 11:08 AM

This is a bit long but here goes.

After reading Lasermonkeys Challenge, This is what I did. (I didn?t use his 30 Seconds)

I decided to invent a scenario: Evacuation called while at work. Get home, grab and go as quick as you can. Evacuate by car. (so don?t say ?what if you had to walk etc <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, this is what I am working with for the test)

How to test: timed from keys removed from ignition. End time when loaded everything at front door (didn?t want neighbor?s involved) Then check through contents. So extra time should be added to throw it all in the car.

Quick description, I have a BOB half stocked, ready to go with various items packed in Pelican Case type cases and other packs ready to grab. There are some double ups across different packs as you will see in final contents.

What I had on me before I started.
iPaq PDA, Leatherman Wave (old style), Surefire E1e with LED Head, Spare CD123 battery, Mobile Phone, Suunto clipper compass, JetScream whistle, Keys with 512Mb USB Disk, Magnesium Flint fire starter,Res-Q-Me tool. Fully clothed with jumper, shirt, cargo pants and Steel cap boots.

What I did:
Enter house, grab a bag go, to kitchen throw in food tins. Go to bedroom grab clothes. Go to BOB area and grab and pack everything inside front door.

So it took me 8 minutes (7:56 to be exact, aprox.10 packed in car) and I did 1 pass through the house. I could have decided to include in my scenario to do a 2nd pass and pick up more gear I have easy to grab. Eg 2 burner stove and gas bottles.

One obvious thing I walked past and didn?t grab was my tent. (I guess I will try and remember next time.)

So I laid everything out and this is what I got out with: ( not including things already in car or on me)
1 change of clothes, coat and 3 pairs of socks.
20 assorted tins of veg, spaghetti, pasta?s
Sleeping bag
Backpack
Rope
Leather gloves
First aid manual
Wide brimmed hat (water proof ish)
Sunglasses
Insulated beanie
Zip ties
GPS
2x 5 Watt handheld CB radio?s
first aid kit with extra bandages etc (wont go into full contents)
PSK tin (wont go into full contents)
Katadyn Pocket water filter
2x Mini Maglights
Buck Knife- model 692 Vangard
Space blanket- Tarp type
Foil emergency blanket
Mini multi meter
Small am/fm radio
4x battery adapters (AA to C or D size)
roll of insulated tape
Leatherman crunch
Diamond sharpener
Ultimate Survival Deluxe Kit (wont go into full contents)
Small tin of Maya dust (tinder)
Compass -Recta DP6
Gerber Military tech pack (Gerber multi tool with interchangeable jaws)
Schrade Vice Grip multitool
Screw driver with ? bits
2x GloToobs
Swiss Tool
Buck Ecco3 knife
3x Aluminium 1 litre drink bottles
1 plastic 750ml drink bottle
led light
insect repellant
sunscreen
Water purification tablets
Matches
1 pack of Whitshire firelighters
My Billy brew kit which includes a solid fuel stove, knife fork and spoon, tea towel, 2 packs of cuppa soap and tea coffee etc.
Batteries: total of 38x AA?s, 10x AAA?s, 4x a23?s, 19x CR123?s


And now the worst part ?. Putting it all back again

Posted by: lazermonkey

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have o - 09/27/05 03:43 AM

p38 edc and all this took 30 sec
Posted by: lazermonkey

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/27/05 03:52 AM

That’s a lot of stuff in 8 min great job. The most likely scenario I can think of would give you at least 5 to 10 min. I like the 30 sec because if you prepare for that any more time is great!
Anyone else try?
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: A bug-out bag opinion (it's okay not to have one) - 09/27/05 04:00 AM

I tried to make it as real as I could.

If I used 30 seconds from the car, I would have only got about 5 feet inside the door. and would have basically nothing.


Posted by: Anonymous

AAAAAAARRRGHHHH!!!! - 09/27/05 07:20 AM

I read thru half of this thread and then I started to tear my hair out. Which is hard, since I'm bald.

I think it would be a great exercise to find the most boring, cheap, disposable and yet functional items to put together in a BOB. That way you'll have it and not agonize over it or cannibalize it.

Knife? Cold Steel Bushman and a CRKT M16 folder.
Multitool? Go to sogknives and see if they have a seconds Pocket Power Plier.
Hydration pack? Get an Eagle Creek pack and stick a Platypus bladder in it.
Stove and pot? Get a tin cup from Campmor and make a wood gas stove from a coffee can.
http://www.garlington.biz/Ray/WoodGasStove/
Hell, get another coffee can and use that for the cup.
Flashlight: Mini-mag.
Towel/Water Filter/Filter Mask/Bandage: dish towel.
Radio: Transistor Radio, ten bucks.
Clothing: Carhartt pants, Red Ledge Thunderlight Waterproof/Breathable Parka, Old Navy or Gap Fleece shirt or maybe an old wool sweater, 2 t-shirts, 2 pair skivvies, 2 pair socks, 1 pair Sealskinz socks, beanie, boonie hat. Resole those old work boots. Gardening gloves. Add your least favorite pair of sunglasses.
Tent? NOPE. Bivy? Hefty bags and duct tape.
Food? Clif Bars, and grab that salami from the fridge.
Maps: Auto Club. Silva Compass.
Crowbar from hardware store. Spark-lite, or cannibalize your Zippo. Cheap cigar lighter. Tea Candles. Whistle. 550 cord. Safety wire. Fish hooks.

First aid kits are easy to buy. Get Bull Frog spray and Chap Stick too.

A paperback copy of Watership Down and a deck of cards.

Documents? Keep your passport in there. Take it out when you travel, put it back when you return. Data backup? Use your iPod.

The initial layer of clothing should be kept in a hefty bag that's taped to the backpack. If you have time, change. If not, grab and run, when you get to an interim spot rip the bag off and change.

The whole thing can be kept in a Rubbermaid tub under the bed along with a bottle of water that you rotate with the one in the fridge.

Is it that difficult?
Posted by: benjammin

Re: AAAAAAARRRGHHHH!!!! - 09/27/05 12:54 PM

In a little over two minutes, I can have my pickup completely loaded with all my camp stuff. You gotta understand, I have 4 grub boxes (big plastic boxes with locking lids) already loaded with all my camp cooking supplies and most of my camp gear. This includes a whole lotta stuff, cooking utensils, canned and dry packaged foods, firestarters galore, fire handling tools, cleaning supplies, toiletries, utility items like duct tape, rope, kite line, tarps, tarp locks, nails, lanterns and lantern fuel. Sitting beside this is my 12' x 17' wall tent and tent stove, 4 sleeping bags, 3 cots, and two camp chairs. On the other side is my collection of dutch ovens and fry pans to choose from. Behind the boxes are my chainsaw and kit, a peavey, a double bit axe, and a splitting maul. Under these are more tarps, some firewood, and a fold up table.

On the other side of the garage are two coolers, one large and one medium. Next to them are three 5 gallon plastic carbuoys full of distilled water and my 10 gallon water jug. Next to that is the 7' tall stand up freezer. At the end of the garage opposite the door are three tool boxes full of tools. What I have to hustle on is any additional guns and ammo I want to take besides the everyday basics, vital records and documents, and clothing. On the way out the door I grab the laptop bag. With my wife and daughters helping out, we can just about get it all in two minutes. Any quicker than that, and I forget the camping stuff and just grab the handy items and go. Bugging out is not the time to "Take the time" to do it right. You take the time up front getting it all prepared so you don't have to think about it, you just move like heck and catch your breath while you're heading down the road.

As far as egress goes, the routes I take are not on any map I have seen. If you had a good aerial shot, you might know there's a road there, but I bet the only people that even know that road exists stumbled on it like I did and never drove to the end to see where it dumps out. I can drive down that road for darned near two hours at cruising speed and not see civilization again along the way. The whole way, civilization is only about 15 miles away in either direction perpendicular to my route, but they'd never know I was even there.

Geez, am I paranoid or what. Over here, I have no place to go except get in the line to fly out on a Blackhawk like everyone else would have to.