Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations

Posted by: Anonymous

Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations - 07/17/05 09:40 AM

Greetings All,

I am putting together a disaster/ Bug Out Bag kit and would like recommendaions for a back pack. I would like the kit to be able to sustain me for 4-7 days. The terrain would be a midsize city to rural MidWest. What size back pack would be appropriate for this role?

Thank you!
Posted by: AyersTG

Re: Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations - 07/17/05 01:11 PM

Just to start things off:

Depends on how much "comfort" you require. You could manage fine with a fairly small pack if you are OK with being a bit hungry and cold and improvise along the way. Most people would prefer an "ordinary" sized pack (now enter the interal frame vs external frame debate) in the 3500 ci - 5000 ci range.

If it's an all-up BoB, you need to size it to include your winter clothing and gear. If you are OK with a seasonal supplemental bag for your seasonal clothing, a smaller bag will do fine.

7 days food adds up to a lot of bulk and weight, no matter what you use. Figure how you're going to handle water and assume surface water in the MidWest is full of runoff from livestock AND ag chemicals (because it is).
Posted by: JohnN

Re: Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations - 07/17/05 05:49 PM

Yah, as an example, I carry a 2500cu in pack every day which is really geared at getting me home. With the various supplies and a bit of clothing it is full. I don't carry much (if any) food in it and do not carry water in it, although my target is to add 4L of water for my dog and I from my office or car supply if in a disaster. So that is about as much as fits in 2500cu in. Consider it a 24hr pack.

I figure this is a good baseline to build on where you factor in food, water and additional clothing.

Part of the question is also, do you plan on walking for seven days, or do you have a brief walk to some shelter. Or are you planning on driving and just have the pack for convience and just-in-case?

What I'm trying to get at is -- you need to pack to a target that is realistic for you to carry for your target distance.

Personally, I think I'd be happy with about a 4500 cu in pack for longer term situations, but I doubt I'd pack much more than I have in my 24 hr kit other than more water and food. The gotcha is water is darn heavy...

Another consideration is how much clothing are you planning on carrying. Clothing, while light, can be bulky and take up a lot of room. In the midwest, I suspect it would make a huge difference in the winter vs summer for example.

One thing you might want to do is put everything together in a pile that you think you are going to carry and then eyeball the size before you go pack hunting.

Which comes to another point in picking a pack. When the load gets more serious, you really want a pack with real support. I would read backpacking reviews of the packs you are considering and make sure they perform well with heavier loads. Most book backs and military style packs don't have much if any support. I use a book bag style but the load is fairly light.

-john


BTW, here are some (old) pictures of my 24 hr kit. I'm re-doing it and hopefully will have revised pictures at some point. Note that some of my items are fairly specific to my situation and I would assume yours would look slightly different.
Posted by: MGF

Re: Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations - 07/17/05 07:51 PM

John, that is a purely awesome collection of gear.
Posted by: 7k7k99

Re: Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations - 07/17/05 08:38 PM

Hi John
do you have a source to get that New England Tech Cord? I can't find anywhere to get that 3mm cord
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations - 07/17/05 09:30 PM

Gents,

Thanks for the helpful replies. John, Great photos of your BUG pack. I want to be able evacuate my area, and then being able to live out of the pack for a few days.



I am considering the Mountainsmith Cross Country II. It's an internal frame and has a 5000 ci volume. Unfortunately, there are no real outdoor retailers within a 100 miles of me so everything is mail order. I can't try it out in a store.

Posted by: JohnN

Re: Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations - 07/18/05 02:37 AM

Quote:
Hi John
do you have a source to get that New England Tech Cord? I can't find anywhere to get that 3mm cord


You know, I just looked the other day and couldn't find a source either. I think I originally got mine at 911Providers GearShop but they don't have it on their web site now. Maybe you could give them a ring and see what the deal is.

I half way wonder if people started getting worried that people would use them for escape gear like mine. I'm aware it is a bit risky, but there is no way I could EDC as much if it wasn't so thin and light.

-john
Posted by: JohnN

Re: Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations - 07/18/05 02:45 AM

Quote:
John, that is a purely awesome collection of gear.


Thanks. I've been working on it for quite a while and still don't have it down. It's also interesting how complicated an exercise this is and as much thought as you put into it, there is always room for improvement or things you overlooked, etc. But I'm pretty close to being happy with it.

At this point I've actually split my kit into two containers. The first is a Maxpedition Fatboy and the second is the pack in the kit. I actually have a Maxpedition Condor on order and hope to replace the Kelty pack.

The reason for the split is that it just wasn't practical to always take the backpack with me. I can pretty much get away with having the Fatboy with me tho.

-john
Posted by: KyBooneFan

Re: Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations - 07/18/05 03:33 AM

John, this web site has the cord on sale.

http://www.cmcrescue.com/product.php?dept_id=1006

Must be powerful stuff at 60+ cents a foot ON SALE. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: JohnN

Re: Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations - 07/18/05 03:40 AM


Thanks for the link, but 7k7k99 was looking for the 3mm cord. Several places seem to be carrying the 5mm.

And yes, it is powerful stuff! 3mm is rated for 3100 lbs!

-john
Posted by: JohnN

Re: Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations - 07/18/05 04:02 AM

Quote:
I want to be able evacuate my area, and then being able to live out of the pack for a few days.


Well, I would try to imagine the situation and what things you are likely to need and make your list.

For example in my case, the building I work in could be damaged in an earthquake. Getting out of the building could be an issue. Hence I decided to put gloves, a small titanium crowbar and an escape rope kit in my kit.

But everyone's situation is slightly different so you have to consider the specifics of your situation.

I also found it somewhat helpful to write just catagories of a kit (w/o the specifics) to help organize my thoughts. Something like this:

Personal Medications
First Aid
Food
Water
Environmental Protection
. weather / exposure
. [ heat, cold, water ]
. hazard [fire, debis]
Extracation
Communication / Signal
Mobility
Navigation
Information
. manuals
. frequencies
. inventory
. maps
. contact information
Utility
Comfort / Luxury
Spares / Duplicates
. [ eg, glasses, knife ]
Repairs
Defense
Special considerations
. [ eg, airplane travel ]
Other

You might keep a small pad with you as you are likely to think of things at random times. That way, you just whip out your pad, write down your thought and then go back to what you were doing.

I also found it useful to review other people's kits. I like to look at what people carry and think to myself if the various items would be useful to me. For example, Schwert has a kit very similar to mine (although a bit different approach). No big suprise since he is planning for the same types of problems. No big suprise since he works about a half mile or so south of where I do. :-)

Quote:
I am considering the Mountainsmith Cross Country II. It's an internal frame and has a 5000 ci volume. Unfortunately, there are no real outdoor retailers within a 100 miles of me so everything is mail order. I can't try it out in a store.


One thing you might want to do is check some reviews. I didn't find much when I looked for reviews of the Cross Country II -- is it a new model? For example, look here. If you can't go see and try your pack, it mght be good to pick one that at least you can read reviews about. Considering you are talking about seven days worth of food and possibly water, you probably want to make sure it does well with heavy loads, esp. if you are thinking you are going to need to cover a lot of miles with it.

-john


Edited for clarity (hopefully).
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations - 07/18/05 04:28 AM

John,

Thanks for the insighful post and the link. I am going to put some more thought into this.
Posted by: Alan_Romania

Re: Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations - 07/18/05 04:33 AM

I am a big fan of the "Three Day" style pack for a B.O.B. if you can make due with 2000 - 3000 cui (depending on the manufacture). Lightfighter carries various makes and models of this style pack.

As for bigger packs and heavier loads, I have found that what works for one person can be murdous to another. Although, a full 6000 - 8000 cui pack is going to hurt when carried all day, a good pack goes along way to making that effort less painful and thus increasing how far and fast you can move.

I personally like the Mystery Ranch System. They are hard to find, but are exceptionally comfortable and stable mostly due to the adjusatblity of their design. Although their website: Mystery Ranch doesn't show the older frame design I have their new designs look promising. I have carried some pretty heavy loads over some brutal terrain with good results with mine.

My advice would be:
Figure out how much you want to carry (max load). When you pick a pack, choose one that a. fits you well, b. has slightly more capacity than your expected max load, c. choose a pack or system that allows you to organize your equipment so that it is accessable without unloading your entire pack.

Posted by: paramedicpete

Re: Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations - 07/18/05 05:50 PM

Have any of you ever rappelled with 3mm cord?

If not, be sure to consider how to rig your rappelling/belay device (rack or Figure 8), I suspect that there would be insufficient friction with the standard configuration on an 8 (you may have to doubled or even triple wrap the device) and be sure to start with all of the bars on your rack in place. While the 3mm and even the 5mm cord may have significant weight loading capacity, the reduced diameter (note: on regular low stretch/static rope, the rope will flatten at the point of contact with the belay device, thus increasing the surface area/friction) may not provide sufficient friction to maintain a controlled rappel. Many of the other auto-descending devices may not work at all with 3 or 5 mm rope. Be sure to check with the manufacturer of the device before varying the rope diameter, otherwise you may receive a nasty surprise when trying to rappel during an emergency situation.

Pete
Posted by: SheepDog

Re: Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations - 07/18/05 06:14 PM

Guess you had better learn the Munter Hitch!!
You could of course always use your 8 as a stitch plate.
Posted by: paramedicpete

Re: Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations - 07/18/05 07:20 PM

I would not rely upon a Munter Hitch in a 3 or 5 mm line to control the decent of an average adult, especially under the pressure of an impending emergency. There are some micro-belay devices that I believe will work with smaller line, but again it is hard enough to safely rappel with a regular 8 or rack for persons who are not trained and do not practice on a regular bases, I cannot imagine doing so on 3 or 5 mm line.

Pete
Posted by: Alan_Romania

Re: Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations - 07/18/05 07:40 PM

Have repelled with 5mm cord using a munter hitch while fully turned out with an SCBA on durning "Saving Our Own" training... I was pushing 270# at the time. It isn't the easiest, but it works fine.

Now, I would rather use this setup:
SMC Escape 8
CMC Escape Line

Anyway you look at it, an emergency shouldn't be the first time you try a new skill or equipment. Practice may not make perfect but having done something before even in training can make an emergency less stressful and safer.
Posted by: JohnN

Re: Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations - 07/18/05 08:28 PM

How about:

PMI PED

-john
Posted by: paramedicpete

Re: Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations - 07/18/05 08:58 PM

Training, training training –

Could not agree with you more, but again you used a Munter while training, for SOO Training under supervision and somewhat controlled conditions. I have seen too many individuals freeze up when placed under stressful situations, sometimes despite training. There are numerous case studies of rescue/training fatalities/injuries involving individuals (instructors/long time rescuers) that froze (mentally and/or physically) at some critical juncture of the operation.

I have no doubt that you and thousands of other Firefighters, including myself, have used this technique successfully. However, I have also witnessed drop tests using a Munter, where despite the strength of the belayer, the load could not be controlled and led to catastrophic failure.

The CMC Escape Descender would be my preference as well, with 5mm. It is designed and has been tested to work with 5mm+ rope. Note that the CMC Escape line is 7.5mm

Pete
Posted by: SheepDog

Re: Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations - 07/18/05 09:57 PM

Yea if The Munter works pretty good when you get it right. It would not be my choice when doing HART but for just some gear and me it works fine. But if you screw it up your in trouble. Saw a buddy do a 40-foot belly flop when he messed up a hook up. So check what your doing and then check your partners.
Posted by: Alan_Romania

Re: Need Disaster Kit Pack Recommendations - 07/18/05 10:53 PM

Here are some pics of my escape kit. It was originally on my SCBA at work but has been replaced my department equipment (FINALLY). It weights about 2lbs, is 3" x 6" x 9" and has 75' of line, 2 Locking "D"s and 20' of 1" tubular webbing.



The SMC Escape 8 works as well with 7mm line as a rescue 8 works wioth 1/2". I have tried 5mm with it and find it works better double wrapped.

Now, personally rapelling equipment is very low on my list of survival equipment. It may be more important in some enviroments and some 'missions" may require it as specific equipment. If there is an option to route around an obstacle rather than rapel or climb... of course that sometimes that isn't an option. I do throw my escape kit (or other rope gear) into my pack when I'm working in harsher terrain.

It has been said more than once in this tread, but it is worth repeating. You need to train with what ever you carry. There is no substitute for experience or training!