Henry Survival Rifle

Who carries this in your BOB and what type rounds do you put through it?

http://www.henryrepeating.com/survival.cfm

I just ordered mine today at wallyworld

You know, I'm not into firearms, but even I appreciate the ability to put a rifile in a small, lightweight package like that.

Damn. I had no idea the venerable Henry Repeater survived into this century. Go get 'em, Tiger. I'd love to own one. As this is a firearm AND over our limit of $100, I'd have to run it by My Better Half first.

-- Craig

I have wanted one of those since Armalite made them.
It is on my short list of firearms purchases to make.

it's $144 at walmart + tax, not too bad considering the retail on the Henry website. I too thought it disappeared when Charter Arms went belly up. When I discovered it was still available, I decided to go for it.

I've had one for a few years, though it is not part of my BOB pkg. I have a different firearm(s) for that pkg.

This is a practical 22 carbine. It is a takedown, with the barrel and receiver disassembling easily and stowing in the butt stock, along with the magazine and a 50 rnd box of ammo in a watertight cavity that is sealed with a removalbe buttpad. It floats if dropped in water. It is a semi-automatic, which is not as desirable as a manual action, but it is reliable enough for survival use. It is moderately accurate with standard ammunition. Adding a scope to the pkg defeats it's takedown and stowage aspects, but does improve the abilities of the firearm some. While it is lighter than my Ruger 10/22, you will be surprised at how heavy it still feels in your pack in stowage mode. I've been able to make decent shots with it at 50 feet, and I can reliably shoot varmint sized game to 50 yards with it, which is almost as good as I can do with my other more conventional 22s. What this little unit needs is a small cleaning kit to go with it, but I guess you can pack that separately if need be.

I use Aquila Supersonic hp or Remington yellowjacket or any equivalent rounds. I consider the 22 a marginal round for survival, but it is far superior to throwing rocks. You just have to work a little harder to get the right shot is all.

I would still prefer a takedown 410 in a similar package, even if only a single shot.

You probably know the history of the weapon. It started out as the Armalite AR-7, and failed to get any military contracts. They rocked along with it for while, then licensed it to Charter Arms. Charter went under, and it was revived by Henry. There have been quality issues with Henry's repro lever actions. I have not seen the AR, but it is so simple it ought to be hard to screw up.

Charter did several versions of survival weapons that regretably never got off the ground. There have been several versions of the AR over the years in large handgun form. The stock on the AR is not comfortable, period, and triggers usually suck, which can be remedied by a decent smith. There was a 'sporterized' version that may not have even made it to market with a skeltonized alloy stock that looked to be much more shootable than the plastic. I wanted one when I saw the pictures, but I never saw one to buy.

Please report back when you have gotten to play with it for a while.

There are several H & R pattern single shot weapons out now with interchangeable barrels that have good potential as Ben says. Unless the Sprigfield M-6 comes back, they look like a good option.

Yep, and with the acc'y barrel program you can build up about any package you want, plus there are some interesting pre-packaged sets. These have a very good reputation.

Here's your 410 - bonus 45 colt: Survivor

22/410 Combo

To get exactly what you want, check out the acc'y bbl program

Rossi USA has a similar weapon that we have previously discussed. The one I gave my nephew (22/20 ga) is going strong and very accurate, but others have had problems with the Rossi, so caveat emptor.

Regards,

Tom

I own a Charter Amrs AR-7, and it has been bounced around by myself and other family members for years. My one grumble with it that the stock is a fairly soft plastic, so it picks up a lot of scratches and scuffs if it isn't protected. Also, I think they could have put two magazines in there, but it might have made the floatability iffy.

I like Russian subsonic match for it for really small game. I have a couple of spare mags, and the one with a white band painted on it is loaded with cold ones, while the others are loaded with the most cost efficent high (not hyper) velocity hollowpoints that are on the shelf when I need to buy more.

One thing I am thinking of doing is epoxying a small nub onto the underside of the stock so I can wrap a length of webbing around it and not have it slide forward under tension, then maybe add a small pouch to the side. I already put a tiny dot of white enamel on the front sight, and a matching half ring to the rear, for speed.

The AR-7 was originally designed for the civilian market by Armalite. Earlier, they designed a bolt action 22 Hornet for the U S Air Force. The action and barrel fitted into a fiberglass stock, similiar to the storage in the current AR-7. I believe Armalite designation for the Air Force model was AR-5.
The AR-5 was given the military designation MA-1 and adopted as military standard, but was never placed into production. The Air Force appearantly decided their existing H&R built M-4 take down 22 Hornets and the M-6 22 Hornet/410 bore over & under were adequate for their needs.
With more reliable aircraft, improved search and rescue techniques and world wide communications capabilities, survival "long arms" generally are no longer carried in military survival kits.
After Charter Arms gave up the ghost, a Florida company named, as I recall, Survival Arms built the AR-7 for a while.
I have one of the old Armalite versions. While a neat and handy rifle, I find it's not as reliable as I like. It seems very sensitive to magazine feed lip configuration and will, on occasion, fail to align the round with the chamber.
Accuracy is reasonable, considering its weight and expected use. The integrel peep sight is handy, altho a scope makes it easier on my tired old eyes. Overall, I prefer my modified Savage 24C Woodsloafer Special to the AR-7 or M-6 as a "survival" woods-carry firearm.

7k7k99 the Henry is an OK weapon. Fun to shot, will give you that, but the accuracy is touch and go with them. Some folks have great, some folks wished for great. Another way to go is to get one of the very good 22 pistols out there on the market. The Rugers Mark II Gov't is what I have and it shoots 1.5 inches at 75 yards. Ruger and Smith make very good 22 revolvers that are very accurate too. I was thinking of the M6 while deciding on a survival gun, but there were more advantages with the pistols. One they are a lot smaller and easier to carry in a BOB until needed. Aftermarket parts are available from several companies so that getting extra springs and screws that might break or get lost in the field is a snap. They are just as accurate for the survival needs as a rifle. And best of all you only need ONE hand to shoot it. If anyone thinks that shooting a rifle one handed is easier than a pistol I would like to meet them. Yes you could rest the rifle, but you can also rest the pistol. I think the only drawback is that you would have to practice a little more with the pistol, but I wouldn't count that as a draw back <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Sorry for the long reponse, but that you might like to hear a thought out of the box.

I wonder if spraying it down with truck bed liner would help

Why not both a rifle and a revolver/pistol?
My kit has a .22/.22mag ruger revolver AND a Savage 24C .22/20ga. One i'm getting has .this week has both 22/20ga and .22mag/20gamag barrel sets.

I have the MkII Government Target model, and it is more accurate than any small bore rifle I have shot, other than H&R and Anschutz target rifles.
It will consistently put 9 of 10 shots in a single ragged hole at 25 feet.
Better than I can hold, usually <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Heck, I get that out of my off the shelf 10/22 at 50 feet, and can punch out the bullseye at 50 yards regularly, at least until the chamber gets too crapped up with wax. You need to find some better rifles my friend. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As far as the Henry stocks, mine seems tough enough I don't worry much about scratches. It is a utility firearm, so I am not that concerned about finish.

I grabbed one of those Romanian bolt action 22s a while back for $50. We use them at the range for Hunter Ed qualification for prospective hunters. They are pretty darned good, though I've noticed a few models have feed problems because of loos fitting magazines. They aren't pretty or takedown, but they are rugged enough for keeping one behind the seat of your pickup truck, or the scabbard, or the gun rack or whatever.

if I am going to pack a full sized pistol around, I will take a major caliber for survival carry since it is no more heavy or bulky, probably more accurate, and darn sure more inherently lethal. Doesn't S&W make a 16 oz 357 mag now? Sure, it would be a bear to light off a full power load in it, but you could use 38 +P or reduced handloads and still have enough to disptach deer sized game at normal pistol ranges. For another 10 oz or so, you could get their 44 mag, and down load to 44 spec to tame the beast so to speak, and still have a very desirable man/predator deterrent (well, not griz or brown, but certainly black bear and cougar). That is pretty darned good in my book.

JAF said:


Well, there is also the matter that a brand-new AR-7 is about the half the price of a new MK-II. The law is also more strict on handguns in some areas.

And if you have relatives who might not be into shooting, I would also imagine that there is less change of self-injury using a rifle. If you are not there, would you rather have your SO handle a pistol or rifle?

But with that being said, I would love to add a buckmark to my collection. But I first have to grab the M6 that I saw a couple of days ago. Those things are harder to find...

Hey, my 10/22 is pretty accurate, but not as good as the MkII <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I picked up a surplus 98 Mauser copy that is a .22 trainer (full size), think it was french or something, was told it was made on captured tooling (?).
Very accurate rifle, peep sights, incredibly fun to shoot. Recoil on an 8 or 9 pound rifle with a .22 is nonexistent!

I use a T/C Contender carbine. I got a custom 17” .22lr barrel. I put a Weaver .22, 2-7X scope on it. The Contender breaks apart at the hinge pin. You take the two forearm screws out and then you can slide the hinge pin out and the barrel lifts off. The Contender is very accurate (CCI Silhouette MiniMag 0.58” five shots at 50 yards.), has a great trigger (Mike Bellm), and is light weight. In my hunting experience you get one shot and then everything scatters. I also have a 21” .223 barrel that Mike Bellm rechambered for me. It will shoot under an inch all day long. On a good day it has shot under ½” (3 shots at 100 yards). A Contender pistol might be even better for a BOB weapon.

Your relatives shouldn't be handling your guns when you're not around, and if you're worried about it, maybe you should invest in some locks. Pistol paranoia (or any gun paranoia, for that matter) really gets my goat.

Troy

Never thought about it. But having seen plenty of stocks with bondo bits, and some really bad failures of said bits, I'm hesitant. Any autobody guys on here? Would the bedliner stuff stick to ABS plastic?

When I say scratches, I'm not talking about cosmetic ones. I have nice deep gouge in the side of the stock from being "petted" by a boulder.

Ya can't go wrong with a Contender, unless... you need a real quick second, third, etc. shot, then, a good semi-auto is hard to beat, rifle OR pistol. Make mine a pair, 1911 .45 and a 1022. Putting this in writing got me to thinking... how many out there (in a survival situation, of course) believe they could drop a deer with a .45? For the sake of brevity, lets specify; you're within 25 feet of said deer, and you've got seven in the mag, and one in the pipe, empty out if need be.

Troy

P.S. Think 'Danny DeVito in "Hoffa" '

A long time ago in the real world, one shot with either of those for me, but given a choice today at that close a range I would prefer the 45. Farther away is fine up to a reasonable distance. Prefered aim point is extremely different with those two calibers.

Tom

I wasn't refering to any sort of paranoia. What I was talking about was a SHTF event, and for some reason you aren't there or don't make it. Then, your family has all of this fancy gear that they get to use.

I figure that my wife could figure out how to use an M6 easier than any sort of pistol. She has shot my Beretta 21, but she is sort of afraid of my XD-9 (boom too big), and I am not sure that she would even have the strength to pull back the slide. Also, the sight radius on a rifle is much better than on any pistol, so that also makes it easier for a beginner to bag bunnies and squirrels.

Just my $0.02.

I agree entirely for me & thee, but very few people have the time or inclination to shoot as much as you must to be minimally compatent with a handgun. I shot 100 rounds a day minimum 5 or 6 days a week for several years (my mother got REAL tired of it) and after all these years I have to "tune up" from time to time.

A well known gun writer acquaintance was once asked what the best survival gun was. His laconic response was " What do you want to survive?" Is my late friend Bart the Bear going to attack us? Are we going to ignore the nutritional phenomenon of rabbit starvation and shoot bunnies instead of setting snares and all those jigsaw deadfalls in the survival manuals? Is the wild eyed stranger with a Tom Brown Tracker a direct threat? The late Mel Tappen wrote a exaustive book on the subject that is still relevant. Personally, I'd rather have 5 lbs of trailmix, jerky, Mainstay rations or a gummy bear frozen pizza than the Ithaca M6 we carried in our C-130s in Alaska. That, or find the WW2 Luftwaffe Drilling carried by crews in North Africa- a rimmed equivelant to the .375 H&H over 2 shotgun barrels. If I am going to pack iron for whatever practical and cultural reasons we value it's going to be real BIG! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Re: "Pistol paranoia (or any gun paranoia, for that matter) really gets my goat."

Frankly, I'd prefer that those w/o training maintain their sense of paranoia. Better they keep their mitts off a gun if they don't know one end from the other.

Re within 25' feet of a deer with one in the pipe and a loaded mag ... well, I know zip about deer, but, yeah, I think might be able to. There might be some tracking involved (sans a decisive hit, I hear those buggers can go a long ways). But I've held my own in bowling pin and steel plate matches, so I'd tend to believe I could score multiple hits on an animal the size of a deer.

Frankly, for a survival firearm, I'd like a 12 ga. shotgun with a full stock or at least a stock that locks firmly into place. Give me some shells in No. 6 shot for critters that fly and scamper and some 0 or No. 1 buck and some slugs for dangerous beings. No one firearm will do everything, but i think that would keep me fed, as well as protected w/in close ranges.

It is always interesting to see the views on firearms in a survival tool. It reminds me of the Rambo knife. I always wondered why people would think that bigger is better. Yes I agree that a 44 mag or 12 gauge would be great to have, but in a situation as a BOB or a flight bag, why would you need a firearm so big? Also is the fact that if one has a firearm then one has the responsibility to be skillful with it and not just OK. A firearm doesn't replace the kit you have, it is one tool to help you. If in a fall I break my leg, it would be difficult to move around and set traps or even fish, but staying still I could get a rabbit, couple of birds, frogs, squirrel, heck even a skunk if need be. Why must one always think of getting the proverbial deer or think about bear hunting. Who cares! You would still be in the same situation without a firearm. A firearm just extends your normal reach. Shooting a 22 is a lot easier on the body then a 44 or even a 38. You can carry more ammo or the same in a smaller place then any other cartridge. Whether a pistol is eaier than a rifle is really up to the shooter. My mom of 58 couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a shotgun, put a pistol in her ands and look out Billy the Kid. No she doesn't practice 1000 of rounds, but when we do get a chance to go out (1 a month maybe) we make every shot could and not just blaze away. My fiance' hates to shot a rifle, but loves my Mark II. So be careful of Rambo, he isn't a good example for knives and nor is he a good example for survival firearms. I have my Mark II set-up for my BOB in a modified CD binder. As for people touching my firearms I was taught that every firearm was loaded and treated them as such and I make sure that if anyone is in my house (lawfully) and might stay they understand this too. So careful thought must be taken into a survival firearm, mainly the asking of one's self if you are ready for the responsibility of having such a tool at your disposal.

Come on guys! Spread your American freedom and send me one! <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
(Ive got the credit card and firearms training :P ) That rifle looks like a good laugh for a gun novice to take out in the weekends. All I can say is appreciate your liberties Americans!

Now, what I am a lot more excited about is the new Taurus repro of a Colt Lightning pump chambered in .357/38. 6.5#, 14 rounds in the mag, lots and lots of ammunition options -- real versatility --- everything from shot shells to 200 grains or so, small game with .38 mid range wadcutters, and on and on.

If the quality is there, and if it will feed, I'm getting one.

Yeah, I've heard stories of folks dropping a deer with a .22 and a head-shot... so far in life, I've never been that desperate/hungry. As far as the .45 goes, I've got no doubt that it'd get the job done, if it came to it, just thought it'd be interesting to hear what others thoughts were.

Troy

Sorry about jumping to conclusions... try taking her/them out shooting more often, if they/she can show proficiency with a given firearm, have an extra key made, if not, don't. I'm sure you'll find that it'll become a full win or full loss situation. If they pick up on the shooting sport, it won't be long and you'll have extras for every lock you own, and if they don't, the locksmith won't be making any money off you. I've had some folks who I thought were pretty puny surprise me with how well they took to an 870 or a 1911 Colt, with a little coaching.

Troy

Not just good... Great!!! BUT... have you seen the price those things bring... beautiful collectors pieces, but I'd be afraid to pull the trigger on something worth that much $$$.

Troy

I have a Colt Combat Elite .45 that I love dearly, but I would not attempt to kill a deer with it unless the deer was stationary, unawares, and preferably broadside. (Of course if I were starving that would be an entirely different matter.) A 200 grain Speer hollowpoint (the old style with the enormous cavity) would be my choice and at 25 feet I'm betting it would only take one. I've got about half a box of those left that I am hoarding like a miser. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Regards, Vince

I'm kind of partial to Winchester silvertip H.P.s... the I.D. perfectly matches the O.D. of a small pistol primer... kind of good to know when you need EXTRA knock down power <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

This is an AR-7, an old design. They were once made by charter arms, and had the unfortunate tendancy to go full auto now and then - which is NOT what you want to have happen when you only have 8 rounds in a mag! it's like BZZT - and you're empty. It happend to my old charter arms version before I got rid of it.

Henry re-tooled them and solved the full auto problem. It's a better made gun and, like other Henry products, I expect you'll have good luck with it.

In general, the AR-7 design can't handle "hypervelocity" rounds - that's your CCI stinger, Velocitor and similar rounds. It sort of handles high-velocity rounds - like your CCI Mini-Mag or similar rounds. It's happiest with standard velocity rounds.

I've found that it's so light that I can't hold it too steady while standing, but I can lay down and hit a 3" circle reliably from 50 yards, and a 6" circle from 100 yards, with some effort.

It's got one of the best "gee whiz" factors for any small gun, but in the end, I'll take my (now discontinued) M6 Scout in .22/.410 any time. I've used that rifle sucessfully for rabbit, squirrel (with .22 Velocitor) and phesant (with .410 #6 shot). The .410 slug is legal for deer here in PA, but I'd want to be no less than 30 yards out for a clean kill. I've not tried deer hunting with a .410 yet.

That said...I still think I'm going to have an AR-7 around. Just because.

Since the M6 Scout is now discontinued, and since I just ordered the Henry, it appears I got what I wanted. I appreciate your post, since you actually answered the question I asked, which was, what ammo it likes best. I have more powerful weapons of course, but I wanted a backpack survival gun that I could hit something with and that was light and compact.

My first one (not this state) was a 22 lr std velocity with a deliberate cns shot and it fell dead in its tracks like the lights were turned out. The hit where aimed was mostly skill but I'll hopefully never know if the result was luck or to be expected. A 45ACP gets about the same result as any large bore pistol within the shooter's individual range limitation and with a caveat that it will NOT penetrate like a heavy hard cast from a 44 mag or heavy 45 Colt load, so either a classic broadside or dead-on sternum shot is more certain to make venison. Broadside usually will fully penetrate with proper 230gr but 185 may or may not - too many variables. A hot Speer 200 gr is da bomb on a classic shot, but there are much better factory loads than that available now IMHO. YMMV; these are just my observations so far - limited data sample.

With care and perhaps luck either would surely beat running down a deer and slitting its throat with a Mora. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

It's hard for me to imagine needing to shoot a deer in likely survival situations, especially in MOST of North America. A rabid skunk seems a more probable situation - my limited experience with those is STAY UP WIND <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Tom

>> A 200 grain Speer hollowpoint (the old style with the enormous cavity) would be my choice and at 25 feet I'm betting it would only take one. <<

The very one! And launched at a fair bit over 1,000fps (+P+ and not for a poorly ramped gun) , you can readily get the job done quite a bit farther away - if you can hit the zone, it will do the job as nicely as anything. Nyah-nyah - I have a LOT more than 1/2 box left..

My current fav, though, is the Remington Golden Saber stuff - I no longer feel an urge to reload "for business" with those readily available. Haven't tried them, but the Federal Hydra-Shok has a huge real-world reputation that continues, despite being the oldest of that "new" generation of performance pistol ammo.

Run a few clips of the Golden Sabers thru your M1911 and see what you think...

I definitely agree with the "stay up wind" for skunks <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I met the great Bill Jordan at a show years ago. Somebody was boasting about buying a NIB Smith& Wesson from a very brief production run and in a even rarer configuration. He said he had it locked up for safety. Jordan looked at him with a cocked head and asked " why are you curating something for a future stranger's benefit? I'd take it out and shoot it! " I once shot a .600 Nitro express double. The single round alone cost @ $100. I found myself standing 3 feet back from where I thought I was with a bloody nose. I reciprocated by letting the owner rapidfire my Webly-Fosbury. A local collector was seen turning purple in apoplexy <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'LL BET!!!

I guess I can SORT of understand, kinda' like getting the wife a piece of jewelry, then keeping it locked up in a safety deposit box, but I just can't seem to shake the distinction between shooters and investments.

Troy

The great Bill Jordan of ?No Second Place Winner? fame. I would like to have met the man and shook his hand. A true legend in the shooting sports. He was right up there with Elmer Keith ?Hell I was there?, Ed McGivern ?Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting? and Jeff Cooper ?The Art of the Rifle.? I bought a S&W M19 with a 4? barrel because of his book. It was a good gun but too loud. I was a revolver man but have since switched to Glocks for serious purposes. I still have a NAA mini-revolver in .22 magnum. Another wonderful gun!

<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Re "why would you need a firearm so big? Also is the fact that if one has a firearm then one has the responsibility to be skillful with it and not just OK."

Not everyone's experience is the same. I shoot thousands of shotgun shells per year, but haven't fired a Mk II in several years. Therefore, given the choice of what to have with me in an unpleasant situation, I'd prefer a shotgun. Pretty much that simple.

You may be "more than OK" with a Mk II; I happen to be "more than OK" with a shotgun. I don''t have a pilot's license or a flight bag and my BoB is in the truck, so why wouldn't I want to add an 870 to my truck kit? (Wouldn't mind a MK II, too, but the wallet can only stretch so far, so fast.)

Being a shotgunner doesn't make anyone "wambo" any more than than being a lover of the .22 makes anyone a gentleman, a sportsman or a marksman.

To each his own.

And as to gathering small game, I'm fairly sure that pheasant will be on the menu in the homes of my family and friends come Thanksgiving. If I can't put it there, my brothers can! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Rand,
If you like the idea of a pump carbine in .357, you might want to check out the IMI Timberwolf. Here's a site:
http://www.remtek.com/arms/imi/
Seems like it might be a fun and versatile gun, and I believe IMI has a good reputation for quality arms, no?
Honestly, though, I have no idea about it's availability or price.
Mark

The late Rex Allen lived near me for many years. My local gunshop took delivery of a highly engraved, inlaid and ivory handled Ruger for him. I heard he was coming down and ran home for a cherry red vinal album of his. He had previously signed it waaaaaaaaaay back during Disney's early years. He saw the album and sadly noted the scotchtaped cover was as beat up as he was. Then he noticed the older autograph and described my mother's dress she wore that day. The ornate Ruger was presented, Mr Allen picked it up and to the crowds horror SPUN the cylinder and bought a box of ammo for it! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

MGF I agree with you whole heartedly and if I sounded like one was better than the other, that was not my intention. The intention was to bring to the table another alternative and some educated reasons why this alternative works to someone who was thinking of adding a firearm to their BOB. No matter what firearm a person has they should be skilled with it and comfortable. The placement and size of the BOB is a consideration I will also agree with. Mine is ready to go or on my back and very "Hike-ish" looking, but very light since I don't spend a lot of time in a car. But in all, these are my opinions and I never take it personal if somebody thinks different. It's good and creates brainstorming, but mainly it opens up more choices for one to decide what would work for them to be safe.

No offense taken. I just do love wingshooting and good double guns.

And, to be honest, I work in an office full of urban PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. who think I'm some sort of nut because I own a gun or two and love Brittanies and setters and Labs.

I think I need a new job in a more rural locale. The city is making me twitchy.

Yes we Yanks greave for our English brethren who allowed their God given rights to be trampled on!

Two words: head shots.

but, re. this whole silly line on .45s: can you possibly concieve of how much game was taken all over the world with black powder loadings of .45-70, or .45 cal muzzel loaders? The ballistic performance of a modern .45 ACP is far greater than that wonderful old cartridge. As for the 1911, many, many of these weapons are more accurate than a trapdoor springfield ever thought about being.

The difference is the package and the shooter: can you hit a 4-6" circle at 50 yards over and over and over, If not, don't handgun hunt, if so, go for it.

Seems nice. I just kind of like the systique of the old Colt Lightnigs. It was Annie Oakly's gun, at the end of her career, if I remember correctly. It was chanbering in .41 Long Colt, and the weapon just never went anywhere commerically.

In all seriousness on this thread, my choice these days for a compact boonie guns, with my aging eyes, are pretty simple guns: a Win 94 in good old .30-30 with a Williams peep sight, an older Rem 1100 with synthetic stock (Hogue overmold) barrel cut back to 20" and a Poly Choke (remeber those?), and lastly, a High Standard Victor with a Pine Ridge 36mm Red Dot (multiple recticle version) on top and a Laser Systems laser below. It's heavy, but shoots into 3 MOA, and so can I. You can carry a lot of rounds in a small weatherproof package -- 5#, total.

Practice, practice, practice.

Yeah... it might have been silly to bring up... I just like reading all the comments of praise for my beloved 1911 and the .45 ACP round <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I don't think it's silly at all. I never go out in the woods without carrying some sort of firearm, usually a handgun. Lately it's more likely to be my Mountain Gun but I still take the Colt out from time to time so the subject has interest for me. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Regards, Vince

"...can you possibly concieve of how much game was taken all over the world with black powder loadings of .45-70, or .45 cal muzzel loaders? The ballistic performance of a modern .45 ACP is far greater than that wonderful old cartridge. As for the 1911, many, many of these weapons are more accurate than a trapdoor springfield ever thought about being."

I don't think the .45 ACP fired out of a 1911 handgun is the equal for hunting in any way to a 45-70 fired out of a Trapdoor Springfield, let alone far greater. The rifle is going to give you higher muzzle velocity, a greater bullet weight, and a longer sight radius. I think the old time buffalo hunters, handed a tricked-out IPSC .45, would have thought it was pretty nifty--for combat. If you then suggested they go out and kill big game with it they would have had a pretty good laugh and stuck with their old rifles.

Regards, Vince

I like the Model 94 30-30 too. I have one circa 1981 that I want to turn into a Trapper model, with the big lever and 16" barrel. In the end it might be cheaper just to buy one though. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Regards, Vince

I have an H&R revolver that have two cilinders, one for .22 LR and one for .22Magnum. I dont know why I should use the .22LR when the magnum is more powerful. Also I have shot shells in the .22 Magnum. This revolver has rear adjustable site and it is very accurate

I have an H&R revolver that have two cilinders, one for .22 LR and one for .22Magnum. I dont know why I should use the .22LR when the magnum is more powerful but I still have the option to use .22LR if the Magnum shell are not available. Also I have shot shells in the .22 Magnum. This revolver has rear adjustable site and it is very accurate

Too many to choose but if I had to choose it'd probably be a DPMS 16" AR and maybe Baretta model 21.22 cal