? Old Bald Guy

Driving home tonight at rush hour ( doing my safe and sane 65mph in the slow lane while cell phone junkies blew by at 85 with a latt'e in the other hand), it occured to me we spend so much time in cars. I have the usual first aid kit, extinquisher,orange triangles,blanket,food,water and glow in the dark Saint Christopher. We have people go over the canyon sides regularly (Im in Ventura California). Sometimes never to be found until a brush fire years later. What else is worthwhile?

I have only helped out in one serious accident. I was the first one at the wreck. I have had a fair amount of first aid training in my life. The driver had pretty profound injuries but was breathing and unconcious. No copious external bleeding.<br><br>The car was wrapped around her and steam was comming up from underneath. My biggest fear was that fire would break out and I would have to make a decision to try to move her. This lead me to the following conclusions. <br><br> I didn't have a fire extinguisher, but I needed one. I also needed a large pry bar, cell phone, hammer or punch to break windows, and an emergency knife in the car to cut seatbelts. <br><br>I personally fear being trapped in a car wreck. I have though about buying one of the all in one contraptions or the seatbelt cutter thing. I know how nervous cops get when they find a big knife in the car. They get shown too many edged weapon films in training, so I know I need to replace it with something nonthreatening.

For me, my aging minivan is essentially an "escape pod." I keep my biggest FA kit in the car, since I figure that is where I will most likely need it. Also food, sleeping bag, folding saw, hatchet (will work fine for busting windows and chopping through sheet metal). I can cut through seat belt webbing with either my multitool knife or even the blade on my Micra, which is carried on my keyring. I don't bother with a fire extinguisher. More useful in the first aid category would be a short backboard with appropriate straps, for quick extrication, as well as a passerby to help with the job.<br>

Other than all of the stuff you mentioned, a way to signal the road when you are over the side would be nice. I have been involved many times in looking for someone who is over the side and on the cell phone with my dispatch. They NEVER have a clue where they are, so we usually end up driving "code three," and dispatch will ask them if they hear the siren. Usually their cell batteries die before they hear us. I have always thought that, in addition to a good light for signalling at night, if one of those canned air horns might be heard by someone up on the road. A can of common sense would be nice too, but no one sells those yet.

thanks! I actually suggested the airhorn some time ago on the forum. I came upon an Amtrak derailment last year and was one of only two who stopped :O( . I had just purchased four bulk packages of 16oz bottled water. Once the traffic was cleared, ambulances, Highway cruisers and Fire Units on scene, and people evacuated from the wreckage,WATER was on everybodies mind. I was one popular guy!

I'll bet you were. Having survived working the Coalinga dust crash on I-5, I can tell you that the first two things needed in a situation like that are water and porta potties. Kinda hard to carry one of those in your trunk, but the water is great. It has always amazed me how unprepared most people are. I'n not talking full blown survival kits, just blankets in the winter, water all the time, a simple road map...people like that are job security for people like us...

Surprisingly enough, I don't recall anyone ever being trapped by a seat belt where exiting the vehicle was real important. I do know of several times, one another officer, where the car went into the water and guess what, those neato power windows don't work anymore. The officer was down to a little air pocket which was getting smaller by the second when he shot out a side window. Hard on the ears. Anyone with power windows should have a spring loaded center punch velcro'd under the dash or some other handy location...

I wonder how well an unfolded multitool would work to punch out a window? or would it be more effective if the closed pliers were the impact point? I feel undressed if I don't have my L-tool on my belt..

Me too, I always have my Super Tool with me...made a pouch to hold it and a spare mag for my Kahr. Any sharp tool will shatter a tempered window, even keys held between fingers with a sharp punch (it's gonna hurt your hand, but at that point who cares). Using a multi tool, my guess that, other than the knife blade, the awl or phillips would work. Spring loaded center punches work best, requiring less force/strength to do the job. You can use them under water, something that will be hard to do with a striking type tool, since the water will slow down your blowl.

A nonthreatening and very effective seat belt cutter is one of those letter openers that are about the size of business card with a razor blade hidden inside. <br><br>http://www.safetycentral.com/emeswinpunse.html<br>Is an example of those seat belt cutters.<br><br>Use your favorite search engine and type in SEAT BELT CUTTER. The item costs about $5-$6. A window punch about the size of a normal writing pen is about the same cost. Get a bit of the adhesive backed velcro and velcro the seat belt cutter to your visor. <br><br>That way it is easy to see and reach in an accident. You could put the window punch in the same place.<br><br>An alternate is the Life Hammer. It is a plastic hammer shaped devise with a built in seat cutter and a metal tip for breaking windows. Cost more, are heavier, bulkier and require more space to store and use than a window punch.<br><br>If you are concerned about getting out of a sinking car, here are a few tips. Roll down the window. You can either exit through the window or it will allow the interior to fill with water equalizing the pressure in and out of the car. Then the door can be opened and you can swim out. Power windows will work for several minutes after a vehicle has been submerged.

I was smugly thinking that my mini-Fox 40 whistle would do just fine for signalling someone if my car were to go over the side - until I realized that I might very well be injured and unable to use the whistle for any length of time.<br><br>GREAT point about the compressed air horn! Wal-Mart has them in a variety of sizes in the boating/sporting goods sections.<br><br>Thanks for your suggestion.<br><br>NP

Am I wrong in thinking that in an emergency my elbo or fist would go through any side window quite easily? Of course on a bare hand this may cause lacerations but if your car is sinking or on fire... who cares?<br><br>Once in a car wreck my jacketed arm knocked out the driver side window when the airbag exploded. I didn't even hurt my jacket. Was I just lucky? (Other than the fact that I had to buy a new window )

It is definitley possible. I accidently broke a window on a van door with my shoulder trying to un-jam the latch. The idea behind the rescue hammers is that they require less effort since the energy of the blow is focused on a tiny area. <br>BTW: That glass is razor sharp so you would probably want to knock the glass away with the hammer or some other object.

I disagree about the power windows working for several minutes. They might, but then again they might not. One example...collision damage prior to hitting the water could damage the window system. The Life Hammers are better than nothing, but hard to swing under water, that is why I like the spring loaded center punches...

Anything is possible of course, but I have seen officers repeatedly strike a side window with a PR-24 baton, swinging HARD, and fail to brake the window. Or take two or three swings with a Streamlite flashlight before braking it. I also saw one take one puny swing with a S&W K-38, breaking the window on the first swing...the sharp cornered front sight hit first and shattered it.

Another major consideration is your immediate disorientation. I had the chance to train in a helicopter ditching simulator. Imagine suddenly being plunged into cold darkness at angles worthy of a carnival ride! I once 'rescued' a man who panicked. He was backing a boat down the ramp and hit the gas instead of the brake. We watched the boat,airstream trailer and truck go in. As he screamed in terror, I waded out,opened the door and walked him to shore. I carry the spring punch also. If life is worth lifeboat matches vs. paper , then look for lifeboats in all your gear.

If one were to use one of the automatic punches... would it be better to hit the top, bottom or middle of the window to prevent shattering glass from flying back in at you?<br><br>Or are you going to get sprayed with glass no matter what?

I'm not a glass expert but I have seen many shattered car windows. They are tempered glass and break in small squarish pieces, not sharp shards. I personally cleaned up my car after a passenger window was broken in by a thief. <br><br>It's been a few years, but I certainly don't recall a bunch of razor sharp pieces of glass.<br><br>Am I missing something? Isn't that the whole point of tempered glass which is used in sliding glass doors, showers, car windows?<br><br>See http://www.sciam.com/askexpert/physics/physics59/<br><br>JustBob.

When you break the glass it will cause hundreds of cracks to appear but the pane will keep its shape for the most part (as it is designed to do). At that point you will have to remove the glass itself. As you do this it will break into many small pieces and slivers that are very sharp and tend to go everywhere. For this reason it is common during vehicle rescues to cover a patient with a sheet or turnout coat if a window must be removed.<br>I know I'm not painting a very good picture here but if you get the chance contact your local FD and ask to observe their next extrication drill. It can be interesting demonstration.<br><br>Chris

>>>I once 'rescued' a man who panicked. <br><br>Very real.<br><br>I observed a non-swimmer in a canoe flounder in 3 feet of water when his canoe tipped. Not only could he simply stand up, he was wearing a PFD (Personal Floatation Device a.k.a. Life-Jacket).<br><br>Once again proving that the best tool for survival is using one's own brain.

While a firefighter, they taught us to break the glass at the top so that the falling glass does not fall on to you hand, arm, etc.<br><br>During vehicle extrication class, they suggested punching the window near a corner or edge since the glass will flex less and be easier to break. <br><br>I had the opportunity to break a sliding glass door window once. Used a window punch and reached up to the top of the window and pushed. The punch broke the glass, my hand passed through the window and I ended up cutting my wrist and forearm as my hand and arm passed through and down in an arch. <br><br>Yes, tempered glass breaks in thousands of small peices. Each piece of glass has sharp edges that can cut you. The advantage of tempered is there are no large dagger shapped pieces that can stab or pierce.<br><br>Yes, it is recommended you sweep all the glass from the frame using a heavy gloved hand, a tool handle, etc. Then lay a blanket over the bottom edge to further reduce the possiblity of cuts.<br><br>In a water escape scenairo, I would not take the time to pad the lower edge of the window with a blanket while I escaped. I would wait for the water level inside the car to reach the broken window ledge so the pressure is equalized and then open the door and swin out. Of course, I have had the opportunity to practice this in a non-emergency condition.

Knowing what to do after an accident is what this site is all about. However, Ill bet a CHP cup of coffee and donut OLD BALD GUY is thinking " excess speed, inattention, poor maintenance, driver fatique." We prepare for handling the aftermath of misfortune. Strategies to avoid it should be a part of our mindset.

Well put!!!!

Every tempered glass window I have punched broke into a jilliion little pieces and fell out, altho I have seen them shatter from "natural causes," and stay in place. Once, when not wearing gloves, I got a nice cut on one finger when my hand went thru. If you punch near the corner you can support your punching hand and maybe not go thru. The pieces have sharp edges, but are not slivers or shards like plate glass. The primary purpose for covering a victim when punching a window is to keep the glass out of their eyes or any open wounds (glass does not show up on x-rays and is hard to see. Having a chunk stay inside of a laceration after it is sutured is less than fun)

Okay. "Sliver" was probably not the right term some of the pieces are very small and sharp. I think we are making the same point though. <br>Of course, we could always take the time to cover the window with contact paper prior to breaking it as an instructor once told me :)<br>