survival in the N.E. surburbs

Here in the northeast , where I have lived most of my life , I don't think bugging out is an option. If you left your home , or any place you happened to be at the time , during a disaster situation you wouldn't get very far. Because it is so densly populated here the traffic jambs and the number of unprepared , panicking people would make bugging out more dangerous than any disaster scenrio. I think it would be wise to put more emphasis on being prepared to stay where you are. In my home I have the usual emergency supplies - plenty of water ,food ,flashlights,candles ,radio,med kit , etc.and also have duct tape and plastic to cover doors and windows. I would like to get a HEPA filter but can't afford it yet. Also have items for self defence , hope it dosen't come to that. My vehicle is also well stocked with survival stuff. If I'm in my vehicle and tshtf I plan to stay in it for a while. I drive a cargo van so it might make more sence for me to stay put than someone with a small car. An item I keep in my truck you might want to get is a chemical protection suit . Got it from www.gemplers.com. They also have agood selection of respirators ,eye protection and other stuff you might find usefull. Also plan to get some fire protection headgear to try on my dog from websoft solutions.net. An item you might want to put in your med kit or for your edc is a bottle of saline eyewash. . Just wanted to add my 2 cents.

Good thinking -- The Red Cross calls this Shelter-in-place

see
http://www.redcross.org/services/disaster/beprepared/shelterinplace.html

and

http://www.ccc-arc.org/answers.html

For more info -- Its basically camping at home.

Staying home would seem the most ideal situation if you could. Home has more stuff than you could pack in your car, is better insulated, and cooking would be easier, no matter how you managed to do it. If you have a house & yard, getting into the habit of planting a vegetable garden would seem to be a good idea. You might luck out and have the trouble when you have crops coming in. (Or not <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />) If you know your neighbors, you would have more manpower, more knowledge, and more protection if things got really bad.

If you live in an apartment and it's stable, most of the above still holds true. If it isn't stable, I would get a group of neighbors together and form a camp in the closest park or vacant lot.

It seems to me that bugging out is the least desirable decision, but you have to keep it in mind in case of fire, toxic leaks, etc.

Sue

Situation dependant but that is the case many times for lots of people. Many use their BOB’s to get home from were they work or “Back to the Farm” rural setting of their families if available. Many people can think of a situation where they might have to walk home from where ever it is they are working at even if it took a couple of days to get there.

I just wanted to say that I do think it's a good idea to have a bugout bag in your home , work, or vehicle . Trying to be prepared for diferent situations is what its all about. In my home I have a backpack and duffel bag for bugging out. In my truck I keep a lot of my survival stuff in a 5 gallon plastic pail. It is an old joint compound container . It has a water and air tight cover and a strong handle. When these containers are cleaned out they are usefull for many things. You can buy these 5 gal. pails from home depot for about $3 but I don't think you can get the lid. Although I don't think bugging out in my area is a good idea , I'm reasonably prepared to bugout if I have to. I also think that what you carry on you , edc , is real important because you never know where you will be when tshtf.

They sell the lids at most places that sell the buckets. Keep a supply of strong kitchen sized trash bags and you have a porta potty..

I have a part-time job at Burger King. All the folks there save me the shake mix bags so that I can use them for water stroage. They are very heavy duty. I also get 5 gallon buckets there that hold pickles. They come with a lid and have a rubber seal ring also. Y'all should check them out, just don't take mine from Willoughby Ohio. Thanks.

I live in southern NJ outside of Philadelphia. As I've tried to explain to my wife, and as anyone can surmise from a brief look at a map, New Jersey is a peninsula. In the event of a major catastrophe that would require evacuation from the area, it is highly likely that all means of egress from the state would be either disabled or severely congested, other than marine transportation.

The major routes of exit from southern NJ are the Delaware Memorial Bridge, the Commodore Barry Bridge, the Walt Whitman Bridge, the Tacony-Palmyra Bridge, the Betsy Ross Bridge, the NJ/PA Turnpike bridge, and the Burlington-Bristol Bridge. Most of these bridges will put you in heavily urbanized areas of the Philadelphia metro area, increasing the possibility of jumping from the frying pan into the fire, so to speak. Further north, there are a collection of bridges from the Trenton, NJ area north, most of which are two lane bridges. It's not likely that a large population could easily traverse these bridges without complications, and the farther south one goes increases the difficulty of reaching these exits.

To top all this off, southern NJ is home to several major military installations (Fort Monmouth, Fort Dix, Earle Naval Weapons depot, McGuire AFB, FAA Tech Center [outside of Atlantic City], etc), as well as being generally surrounded by the Philadelphia and (further north) New York City metropolitan areas, and other important sites that might be the object of terrorist interest. I have to say, I'm quite surprised that there has not yet been a terrorist incident in Philadelphia, considering the psychological impact of the historical sites residing there.

My preferred solution would be to move away from the area entirely, but the decision is not only my own to make.

That said, there is always the possibility of a less severe type of emergency that might require a more localized evacuation, so it would only be prudent to be prepared for such things. For example, hurricane evacuations along the NJ Atlantic shore are not all that uncommon, and I still recall a local evacuation when I was a college student in Pittsburgh that was the result of a chemical spill caused by a train derailment.

While the spectre of emergencies is of somewhat more concern to my fellow New Jerseyans in the northeastern part of the state abutting New York City, available evacuation routes over land are a bit more numerous and accessible. Evacuation to the west and northwest to Pennsylvania and/or upstate New York is slightly more feasible. Of course, the population density is even higher in that area, and New Jersey, overall, still boasts(?) the highest poulation density in the nation, as far as I am aware.

It is possible that staying put might be the more prudent course in any particular hypothetical situation. However, many of the things you might want to include as part of your preparations for stay-home survival will also be of use should you choose to evacuate.

How about loading up the camping gear and heading into the Barrens?

I would think that the major problem with using the Pine Barrens as a refuge would be the fact that the Pine Barrens is a very fragile ecosystem that could not easily support large populations of refugees. Add to that the famously insular nature of the local residents. Fresh water and waste disposal would be primary concerns. Much of the water in the Pine Barrens is either brackish or heavily laden with iron content (to the point that many streams run orange). The Pine Barrens area was famous in Colonial times as a bog iron production area. Some of those military installations I mentioned also occupy a large portion of the Pine Barrens (Fort Dix/McGuire AFB, in particular), plus there are two major state forests whose rangers might be opposed to an influx of people. Much of the Pine Barrens is also not easily accessible, anyway. There are a few major state roads that traverse the Barrens (Rts. 70, 72, 539), but these are quickly becoming lined with developments. I suppose the area around Batsto might make a convenient refugee camp, and there are some well-established campsites along the Batona Trail (small, though).

One thing I though of after my previous post is that the past two years have given us floodings of the Delaware River the likes of which have not been seen in decades. There has been much damage along the banks, particularly in the area just north of Trenton (Washington Crossing, Lambertville/New Hope, PA, Stockton, etc). Just another example of localized evacuations here in the Northeastern US. We also had a hell of an oil spill in the lower Delaware not too long ago.

There have also been evacuations of South Philadelphia for industrial accidents (chemical plants, refineries, etc.) in the not-too-distant past, not to mention the horrible thought of possible nuclear/radioactivity accidents at the Limerick, PA or Salem, NJ plants (and those are the only two I know about nearby).

When I was a teenager, three oil storage tanks exploded in North Jersey. We felt the explosion at my grandmother's house in College Point, Queens. We thought a plane had crashed at LaGuardia airport (just across Flushing Bay). The cluster of refineries and other industrial sites in North Jersey would keep me prepared for possible evacuations.

One last thing...many people do not realize that a major fault line runs right up the Hudson River. When I was in high school in NYC, I distinctly remember two earthquakes of 4.4 and 4.5 magnitude. No big deal, but what if there was a bigger one? Buildings in NY aren't built to the same standards as California buildings.

That is my location as well. The King of Prussia area. I wouldn't head for a shelter. None would accept my cat. I'm not abandoning him. I'd either shelter in place or head out to my sister's or mom's place.

-- Craig

Try searching for gamma seal. In is designed so you have a screw off top on your 5 or 3 gallon bucket. For any one using the 5 gallon bucket idea I would advise using a store bought bucket. I tried reusing a laundry detergent bucket and I still can't get the smell out. I have herd good news about the pickle buckets and frosting buckets they seem to clean out well.

It sounds like you need access to a good boat! <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Troy

I was going to suggest the Pine Barrens as well. For the most densely populated part of the Nation, -this huge central area is among the least densely populated areas of our Nation. Certainly as our Northeast goes, anyway.

I understand that this vast, flat, sandy area nevertheless has it's substantial Drawbacks, though, -some of which you mention.

Fresh Water, however, -needn't be among them. Barrels and other water containers set about, -should be able to capture ample rainwater.

Pond construction too, -could be both a Boon, -or a source of Difficulty, -in such porous soils. Plastic or other lining would be a Must.

I had the Pleasure of passing thru your Pine Barrens back in the mid to late 80s, -while on a group tour to Atlantic City. (The First Time this lifelong, 400 mile Inlander, -ever got to See and Feel the Ocean! Both this and your Barrens were something I had Longed for! And here they had finally come to Fruition! Brought a jar of Atlantic Ocean Water back with me!) I passed thru essentially on it's southern edge, -on the Expressway to and from Philly, -but seeing all those rather short, scrubby Pines as I did, -I definitely knew myself to be there!

Speaking of which, -you'd have no shortage of Firewood or Cooking Wood, -even if Pine is a good ways from being among the best of Woods.

And Oh Yeah!, -watch Out for that Famous, Legendary, New Jersey Devil there! <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As to Routes Westward out of the area, -I understand our common (I'm a Pennsylvanian) Delaware River to be Shallow, -if also Wide and Rocky. This can create some good oppurtunities and locales for Wadeing and Fording, -particularly at lower water times. And/Or some sort of Raft or Boat.

Places such as Lake Hopatcong, to your North, -though far closer to NYC, -are also similarly wilder and more sparsely populated. [color:"black"] [/color] [email]amper[/email]

You can get lids for the 5 gallon buckets that spin on & off. They are great. I know Sportsmans guide has them as well as the more expensive preparedness places. They come in colors so you can color code the buckets.

Dave