terrorism in London & urban survival

Multiple explosions in London this morning; apparently from terrorism:

Link

Does this move any of us to refocus on our urban survival strategies? I know I'm thinking hard on that right now.

Two things come to mind with this. Explosions will kill the lights and fill the area with smoke. Hence you have darkness and an environment filled with choking smoke to deal with.

That's why I carry a SureFire E2e and N95 Particulate Filters everyday. The SureFire is on my person. The filters are in my shoulder bag. I also have two bandannas on my person.

Should I survive the initial explosion and be ambulatory, I would hopefully be able to breathe and see well enough to escape.

-- Craig

Loew's has an N95 filter impregnated with charcoal which I have been carrying. The charcoal should be a step up from the normal N95. You may also want to get some kind of air-tight goggle for smoke. I bought a cheap (about $6.00) pair of speedo swim goggles to carry in my pack, since I take the commuter rail and subway. I keep the filter, goggles, nomex hood, light, and gloves in an outside pocket of the pack.

Does anyone have an answer to this: Is the the smoke filtering effectiveness of the N95 helped or hindered by making it wet? I've heard that a plain bandanna is made more effective, but with a charcoal filter, what's the effect?

I saw some victims wearing what appears to be space blankets on tv. I'm really wondering what is the use of these in this situation.

Frankie

It will be wet soon enough with sweat!!

Ever since the train bombings in Madrid in March of last year and the Kings Cross fire, London, fires on a train or the metro are an ever present thought.

I spent over 90 mintues commuting each way to work on the Parisian metro. To that end I carry two bandanas and two torches. I just feel that maybe I should upgrade and go for the EVACU 8+ system. At least I'll have more than a fair chance of getting past the smoke. If I'm still breathing and upright of course.

Interesting to note though there didn't seem to be much in the way of fire reported or smoke for that matter, or is it still to early to get the full picture.

This incident as well as train bombing in Madrid and the World Trade Center attack on 9/11 have all made me consider the following items in my EDC. By EDC I mean actually "on my person" rather than in a vehicle or a desk drawer etc.

Leatherman Wave
N95/N100 Masks
Duct Tape for sealing the masks (I tend to be a little scruffy in the facial hair dept)
Surefire Flashlight

None of these items have been added to my EDC but like I said, I have "considered" adding all of them as a result of each of the above-mentioned situations.

The Leatherman Wave, N95 Masks and Duct Tape still sit in my vehicle (which would render them useless to me if I were involved in any of the above-mentioned incidents) and I don't even own a Surefire Flashlight.

My current EDC is a Large Regular Sebenza, a Photon II LED light and a Mini Bic Lighter, none of which would probably be nearly as useful in such situations.

I suspect it varied. I saw on the (tv) news one victim reporting choking smoke and darkness.

Agree about the filters and light. I've carried both since 9/11.

Regarding charcoal filters. It should help against yucky stuff in air other than dust, but it seems like it might clog faster. Since they are small, perhaps it would be best to bring a couple without charcoal, and a couple with. That way you can switch to whatever works best.

If the smoke is really bad, I can see any good filter device clogging up pretty fast. Maybe having a bandana as well might be a good fall back plan in case less effective, but less easily clogged might be better.

Perhaps one of the fire fighters might have some wisdom here?

FWIW, my dad just arrived in London and his friend was commuting to pick him up when this happened. Luckly they were all fine, but he is still stranded at the airport (no big deal). Funny how he had to travel half way around the world (from Alaska) just in time to get caught up in this mess.

Certainly, I think being stranded wherever you happen to be with whatever you happen to have on you is a part of this kind of thing, even if you aren't directly involved. Hopefully people will start to consider they should be more prepared.

In any case, can anyone tell us more about the EVACU 8+ system? I assume it is a passive filter and not a fresh air system? I wonder how long they will last? I wonder if there is any trouble taking them through security, etc?

Thanks,

-john

http://www.evacsafety.com/en/products/evacu8/index.html

-- Craig

Depending on the temps there, warmth, and good karma. The blankets in this istance may only do something for the mind, but if the mind thinks they help, they really do help.

"A previously unknown group, 'Secret Group of Al Qaeda's Jihad in Europe', claimed responsibility in the name of Al Qaeda for the blasts."

Why does the news media do this? Getting the credit is probably half of what the cretins were looking for. Why don't they just refer to them as "some whacked out morons"?

Sue

Well sue, your response is correct about the credit but can I point out to everyone that the media initially reported that there were a significant number of groups that laid claim to this action on their respective websites. BUT in the melee the media have singled out the Al Q claim. It may or may not have been them but in the interest of balanced reporting, surely this fact should have been reported. Why have these groups been allowed to keep their websites anyway? international pressure can have their financial accounts frozen. It happened to the IRA and the peace process started up again.
Sorry, just my rant. someone needs to be brought to justice but it seems to automatically be aimed at one particular group. God I hope I don't have to eat my words at a later date.

Via boingboing... phone cam pic of subway conditions

They should not be referred to as 'whacked out morons' -- they are religious fanatics dedicated to a certain ideology which aims for control of the whole world. These are not just street criminals, but a dedicated force committed to world domination and terror. This is what we face whether we like it or not.

There are N95 masks available that actually store completely flat, as opposed to the "contoured" masks commonly seen. I think this would make it a lot easier to EDC an N95 mask.
This model from 3M folds flat, is N95 rated, has an exhalation valve, and a moldable nosepiece for a good fit. You can get them here at $14 for a box of 10.

The reason they can keep thier web site is complicated, and simple.

You can buy a domain, a "website name", for a pitance. And you never talk to a human. You tell a computer what you want, it looks to see if it is already taken. If the computer finds that that name is unused, it asks how you want to pay said pitance. You put in a credit card number.

Then you need a domain server- no biggy, you can get them any where. You just need a decent web connection, and free tools for linux.

Then, you need to let the domain servers know you are there. Again, you are talking to computers. Computers are stupid, trust me.

It can be even easier- free sites. Like yahoo-geocities. They look if the page is taken. If not, you've got it until someone complains. If you are a student, odds are your campus has a computer club with a webserver. Just find a friendly or sloppy sysadmin, and you have your website. Or just brute force crack a webserver.

There, you have a website, complete with email and all the other fun stuff. Google lists 8 BILLION sites and change, and I seem to recall reading someplace that they only have looked at 60% of the websites in the world. That is the real trick, actually- getting on the search engines.

I know I'm skipping a lot of steps; I'm just going over the highlights, but it isn't hard.

I can only speak from personal experince, but when I'm coming down from a really high adrenaline high, I get the chills. *shrugs*

Sorry big guy, I think my point has been misunderstood. What I meant is that if Sky news, BBC News24, ITV et al can all rush around the anarchists web sites to find news 'bytes' then surely M.I.5/6 or another gov't secrecy branch could have found out who their server/ whatever is supplied by, find out how they pay their fees et voila......instant data. God alone knows, the UK spends enough time and money monitoring us through various channels from CCTV to tesco club cards. Or is this supposed to be exercising their freedom of speech, cos if so theres quite a few honest & decent citizens getting their heads cracked up at gleneagles round about now for trying to do the same thing.

Oh, that's easy. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Send an email using your spiffy new domain name to the various letters to the editor and customer comment addresses. It jut has to say "We are the united front for the liberation of carnivorous avacodos, and we DID IT- we even have website that tell the wolrd just how badass we really are. Just follow think below. Thank you, and have a nice day."

I don't mean to make light of this by picking that name, I'm just thinking of the most stupid name I can think of. That really is all it would take.

And NO, I do NOT know of any such organization.

Things coming out over here:
Conditions were apparently dark, hot, smoky/sooty. Electricity powering the carriages went out (which prevented a lot of electrocutions from live rails). Mobile phone (cell) networks collapsed (although there are rumours the Government shut them down to prevent mobile-triggered bombs from detonating.)

One of the main things coming out is that those (few) people who had handkerchiefs/scarfs and 'key-ring' torches were in a lot better position than most people. There are reports of injuries from people smashing carriage windows / doors BY HAND.

I think the lesson is don't leave home without that 'don't leave home without it kit'.

So anyone considering adding a glass cutter or punch for train windows to their EDC ?

On those space blankets: With that many injured people, the medical people are going to give priority to the ones most OBVIOUSLY injured. There can be others who are just as badly injured, but it's not as visible. Shock caused by injury can cause changes in body temp and blood pressure to the extent that people can die fairly quickly. I'm sure that the overextended medical people on site gave as many blankets out as they had available, just in case.

The worst adrenaline high I came down from was when I was on nitrous oxide at the dentist, and apparently they ran out of oxygen in the companion tank. I had trouble breathing, then started gasping because I wasn't getting air. A few minutes later I was shaking and cold. (BTW, you've never seen all that apparatus removed from a mouth so fast -- really!)

And sometimes, a blankie is just nice to have. Ask Linus.

Sue

When I've taking mass transit in Boston and in NYC, I go the distinct impression that it was plexiglass or lexan, not glass-glass, in the buses and trains. If it is glass, it is definantly a laminant.

A glass cutter works if you score side A and tap side B. Not going to work in this case. And the punches I've seen all say they won't do so much on laminants and polycarbonates. I'd say the pocket pry bars, like a wonderbar or maybe a prybaby, might be more useful. (More so than the pocket wrench.) Problem is, if you get spot checked, it might get classed as a burglers tool and probable cause, but I'd risk it if I was there.

What I'd really want was my 12" flatbar, and some room to swing it, along with a closequarter hacksaw and some good gloves, but that would be slow. And if you dont' need that type of thing, why bother?

Although, if it is lexan or plexi, you might have decently luck if you drive the tip of the pliers of a mulittool through, then get out the saw. But by that time, you'd be the only person on there. I bet the doors failsafe to an open, or at least unpressurized and thus easy to pry open with your hands, condition.

Nope. I already carry a short titanium prybar in my kit which I consider provides a superset of functionality and in a pinch, my flashlight or multitool could do in a pinch.

However, consider laminated glass may be involved. My guess is to smash and then cut it with a knife. I suspect this should work (assuming sturdy blade), but would probably be really hard on the knife.

Worse, plexiglass. Very problematic if mounted well. Hmm...

-john

Yeah that's what I figured. It seems they use space blankets to prevent some symptoms associated with post-traumatic shock. Not only hypothermia.

All power except emergency lights was cut. People reported smashing windows to exit the trains, wouldn't imagine they'd do that if the doors were openable. Good points on the laminate though - that's why I asked, I knew you guys would have some good intel.

Surpried- I would have figured that in a power failure, the doors would be able to be pushed open, just as a fire safety measure. *shrugs* All the pnuematic doors and magnetic looks I've been around had that feature, I figured it was just good common sense and standard engineering.

Here's another one-time-use smoke hood product. Packed size: 6" x 5" x 1/2". Purportedly provides 20 minutes breathable air.

I carry a Vaughan mini bar with just the hooked end cut off. It makes a great EDC bar and is almost flat. Fits in my Leatherman sheath perfectly

The evac-u-8 smoke hood is small and portable. It is a series of filters and also filters out CO (carbon monoxide) which is the most lethal component of the smoke.

I have one for each family member and I carry them with us whenever we go travelling. We have had no problems bringing them onto planes / ships etc.

All this makes me wonder if I should be carrying that around with me all the time.....

"I would have figured that in a power failure, the doors would be able to be pushed open, just as a fire safety measure."

They probably figured that the electric rail would be more of a likely danger than a fire.

There was a post here about Montreal's (?) subway, and several people mentioned that the side windows are almost impossible to break through, but the rear windows can be.

Sue

We don't have subways here, but the city busses typically have side windows that can open in an emergency. I kind of wonder if those subways are similar, but people couldn't see how to open them in the dark and smoke.

Note, I recall something like this regarding "real" trains here in the US. Something about the glass being bulletproof and some accident where people couldn't find the emergency latches and as a result were trapped inside. I recall as a result they had overhauled the regulations to make sure things could be seen easier. Wish I could remember the details.

-john


Edit:

I think I found the reference. RAR-97/02 , Collision and Derailment of Maryland Rail Commuter MARC Train 286 and National Railroad Passenger Corporation AMTRAK Train 29 Near Silver Spring, MD February 16, 1996.

Specifically, starting at p58, Passenger Car Safety Standards.

We have to operate under the premise that it is better to know than to not know. I am glad to know, for example that is not the Basques or some new resurgence of the Red Army -- both of whom have operated extensively in London.

don't know about the british trains, but all public transport systeem in my country have as far as i know emergency manual operation levers for the doors, so you can push the doors out by hand.

I've read several comments about people leaving the tunnels walking past people not knowing if they were alive or not. Even seeing some of them (possibly) moving and still walking right on past. This really bothered me. If you're alive and able to walk out do you just leave or do you see if you can help somebody out with you?
It also brought to the front the need to carry a whistle with me. If I'm injured I really don't want somebody to be able to say "I thought he was dead" the incessant whistling should give me away as someone who is still alive.
Very saddened by the incidents, hopes and prayers with those injured, and the families of those killed.

Yeah, me. And I am trying to figure out how to get the kids to carry a bandanna now. Does anyone have any ideas on what to do or how to prepare my 8 and 6 yr olds for the school bus trips? They are on it for about 45 minutes on the way to school. With all the new laws everything I don't want to get a call from the police about my kids having contraband.

I know we have touched on the value of these respirators before. While yes, they will filter smoke/toxic gases etc., and are likely useful in many fire/smoky conditions, please keep in mind they do not supply a source of breathable air containing O2.

If the gas/smoke displaces the O2 containing breathing air, these respirators will not be of much help. In situations where breathable air is displaced by the gas/smoke, only Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA) or Supplied Air Breathing Apparatus (SABA) will be of benefit. In most conventional firs,e smoke rises, so the old adage of staying low and crawling is vital. Both super heated air/gases and smoke will be in the higher zones of a room/corridor, so stay low, even with these escape masks/filters.

Pete

Good points regarding filters and such. Probably good to break it down into three catagories, in increasing benefit:

1) filter only (hanky, dust mask).
2) something that handles carbon monoxide (EVACU8, EVAC+)
3) SCBA.

A SCBA would obviously be best, but AFAIK, these are all expensive and rather bulky. Certainly I'd be interested in knowing more about the SCBA options.

-john

I am sure there are many things that are school safe, but here is a quick list of what I could think of quickly.

First and foremost: guidance/instruction on what to do in an emergency, go over several possible scenarios.

A list of contacts with home/business and cell phone numbers and several dollars in small denomination change to make calls.

A whistle, small LED flashlight, pencil and paper, foil package drink and snack, some string/550 cord

A family and pet photo(s) and if of a particular religious persuasion – a short prayer.

A small First Aid Kit and some basic instruction on how to use the items.

If they wear glasses, an extra pair even if it is their old prescription, as most of time they would be better then nothing.

Pete

Check these out, I am sure there are other companies, but this is what I could find quickly:

http://www.afcintl.com/resp7a.htm

http://www.afcintl.com/845eeba.htm

http://www.afcintl.com/resp7b.htm

http://www.scotthealthsafety.com/scram.htm

http://www.scotthealthsafety.com/elsa.htm

http://www.scotthealthsafety.com/skpkplus.htm



Pete

Thanks for the info.

FAK with any types of non prescription medications (even topical meds) may likely be frowned on at school. Many schools have a policy of allowing only the nurse to administer medications (even topical).

I would consider a standard FAK for a child to include:

Nitrile gloves
2X2s
4x4s
Roller gaze (KLING or other)
Roll of surgical tape
Band-aids misc. sizes
Tri-angle bandage

Really nothing more then that, all the above should pass school muster. Can likely fit all in a zip lock bag or large zippered pencil keeper.

Pete

What about a whistle, space blanket, pad and pencil?

John, I looked for an SCBA back in the late 80's when I was working in a lab that dealt with hazmat materials, and they were in the $2000 to $2500 range back then.
I have no idea what they go for now.
The lab didn't buy one, just too expensive for such a limited use item.

In Montréal's subway, the end doors of each car are always unlocked although it's written that it's forbidden to use them. (but in an emergency I guess we would use them) There are also hand levers under some seats to manually open the side doors.

SCBAs can be a very useful tool in the right situation. However, they are very impractical for most situations, a SAR or Supplied Air Respirators (referred to as an SABA in a previous post) are even less practical.

While an SCBA works great for escape from a toxic environment, you have to have it with you for it to be useful. While a new top of the line model can weigh a mere 25lbs or so, this same model cost around $5000 (complete with face piece, and extra cylinder)… a bare bones model would cost and weigh less. Although older ones are available for sale used for cheap, many of these may require hundreds of dollars to make them safe and useable. I can remember the first SCBA I used on the job must have weight at least 50 pounds… these are the ones that are available cheap today.

If you were able to keep an SCBA with you, you have a limited amount of time to escape to safety. Depending on the volume and pressure of your SCBA’s cylinder, you can expect your air supply to last 30 – 60 minutes in ideal conditions at rest. Now, add stress and exertion to the scenario and you can cut that time in half or more. I can get my SCBA to last over an hour when at rest, however my low pressure alarm will ring out approximately after 35 minutes of work (at a house fire) in 110+ heat… and my pack will be the last to start alarming (the benefits of training for Ironman distance triathlons and having a high VO2 Max and hematocrit). An SAR can theoretically give you an unlimited supply of fresh air but you are tethered to either a breathing air compressor or to an external air supply that requires an attendant to keep flowing. SARs are impractical for most emergency operations, they work well for some confined space scenarios etc, but an escape bottle is required.

An APR (Air purifying respirator) would be a better choice. Commonly called a gas mask, these use specific filters to remove toxins from inhaled air. These are light, easy to use, and the cartridge filters can last for much longer than an SCBA’s air supply. The disadvantages of an APR is that they are useless in an oxygen deficient or super heated atmosphere. An APR also requires that you know the toxins you’ll be exposed to, there are general purpose filter sets, especially cartridges designed to protect the user against common chemical and biological weapons.

Now, there are some escape hoods available on the market, I am not familiar with any of these and can only assume that the popular ones work as advertised since they have been on the market for years.

My advice, be aware of where you are at all times, notice where you exits are, in an emergency… stay low, breath through your dry shirt, look for an exit sign (they should stay lit, some even have lighted indicators at floor level) or follow a wall and keep yelling that why someone can find you.

I hate prebuilt kits, but I think the one for kids tha Major's has seems about right for k-8? I think (HOPE!) most high school students can be trusted with a little more, but not much. Schools are poor.

http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com/Mer...Category_Code=9

I'd add a poncho, and a dust mask, but that would be it for something that is going to mass stored for students. Distribution is the only glitch I can think of.

No offense intended, Pete, but...

A scared kid probably wouldn't use any of those things except maybe some bandaids and possibly the triangular bandage if they had been trained how to use it with a magazine or something as a sling.

A few of those large bandaids (about 2"x5") along with the small ones is all I think they would be likely to use.

But if your kids are unfortunate enough to have to go to public school, you'd better talk to the school first. Their idiocy knows no bounds.

Sue

No, but an adult could use them to treat the child - perhaps that's what he was thinking.

I don't know didly about kids, and don't want to. But, it seems to me that kids only know what you teach them (or fail to) and can only be entrusted with what they have learned to use and to respect.

I was pretty self sufficient when I was 10 or 12, and know kids now that can be trusted with a gun and a truck on a ranch. But I, and those kids I know now, were pushed pretty hard. Many of my parent's friends thought way too hard at the time -- but at least in that respect, I don't think so.

One thing that my parents and extended family did that brought on much criticism was that it was never a game. I was taught that life was deadly serious from day one. Now, the idea seems to be that in order to learn, it has to be turned into "fun." Fun is greatly over rated. Screw video games.

With all due respect, I totally disagree. You would be surprised what young children are capable of in emergency situations and with some basic training and supplies, they can accomplish amazing things under less then ideal conditions.

I have 3 daughters, 23, 20 and 11. All three have been taught basic first aid and have been carrying FSKs (including to school) since they were Brownies (Girl Scouts); the two older ones have been Life Guards since they were 15. The oldest is an ARC Life Guard, CPR and First Aid Instructor. I have been involved with GSA since my youngest was a Brownie and have always provided all the girls in the 3 troops in which my wife has been a leader with basic first aid training and FAKs, so I believe I have a pretty good idea what scared children are capable of in emergency situations.

In fact, as a Fire Fighter/Paramedic I have seen children behave more rationally during a crisis then many adults. It is often later, after the event, that children will have posttraumatic reactions and require comforting and love.

Pete

Lots of interesting thoughts on this. On the issue of smoke, toxic fumes and a SCBA. With space/price being an issue there is an item called an Emergency Escape Breathing Device (EEBD), used on military aircraft that is the size of an old school lunch box (like the ones you used to carry that had Dukes of Hazard or Strawberry Shortcake on the side). They provide up to 15 minutes of O2 and are specificly designed to get you out of a smoke/toxic filled enviorment. If someone is interested in taking a look at the availability in the civilian world...

what the heck is space blanket? is that the same hypothermia blanket but a heavy duty one?

Just he opposite. The foil type in the cigarette pack size packages are the 'space' blankets; they are aluminum foil bonded onto mylar. The 'rescue' blankets are usually the ones with aluminum reflective foil bonded onto a stronger plastic tarp type substrate.

Does that help?

Space Blanket

On the issue of locked vs. unlocked subway doors, I suspect that 'they' don't want you going out of the train because of the third rail. They'd rather try some orderly way of evacuating passengers. Of course, if your dead, it's about as orderly as it gets.

There's a similar issue with lifts (err, "elevators" if you're American). Nowadays they are often designed to discourage self-rescue in emergencies, because apparently if you get out you invariable fall down the lift shaft. The World Trade Centre lifts were of this sort, and I've seen estimates that they contributed to around 10% of the 9/11 deaths in those buildings.

I rarely travel by subway train but sometimes use lifts, and getting stuck in one during a powercut is one of my nightmare scenarios. I recently bought some Prybabies and I'm considering EDCing one in the hope that it would help. I'm not scared of lift shafts <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />