Generators and disasters

Reading the posts about what happens after a major disaster has made me think again about the idea of a portable generator for this kind of a scenario. Nothing that would tie into the breaker box and power the entire house, but perhaps something to run a small refrigerator and a few lights as needed, run it for 45 minutes, rest it for 15 or something similar.
Has anyone set themselves up with a backup generator? Any special planning?
My assumption is that you do not fuel it up until such time as it is needed. Store gasoline safely, be sure of no natural gas leaks prior to starting, only run as needed, etc.

You will never know if it is worth the investment unless you need it and then I am sure it will be money well spent.

Any toughts?

I bought my father this 2000W Honda:

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/ModelDetail.asp?ModelName=eu2000i

It's 2000W peak and 1600W running. I mainly bought it so he could run it in the RV campground. They are super-quiet; 53-59 db. Normal conversation is something like 58 db. It will run for 16 hours at 1/4 throttle. The great thing about it is that it weighs only 50 lbs so it is extremely portable. Even better: you can hook two of them up in tandem to produce 4000W peak and 3200W running.

They are expensive. I paid $869.00 two years ago. I think they are up around $1000 now. There are other brands that are much cheaper, but they are also much heavier and noisy. Strictly for a survival scenario they might be worthwhile though.

I think that with any generator you choose, they must be "exercised", that is, run under load for about an hour per month. This keeps the windings in good shape. (Maybe somebody with electrical training can chime in about that.) So it is a good idea to keep it gassed up and ready to go. Just make sure you add Sta-bil gas stabilizer to the gasoline and you'll be set.

Regards, Vince

In NC, USA, where I live, between hurricanes and freezing rain, "mini-disaster" power outages happen every few years. As a result, generators are popular. At our home we have multiple backup systems for heat and/or electricity (propane, kerosene, fireplace insert, electric radiant heater). Our 4000-watt Generac generator has come in handy a couple times. Rather than wiring it into the house, I just run contractor-grade extension cords to select appliances.

To keep it in shape, run it every now and then and follow the recommended maintenance intervals for oil changes, filter changes, etc. Put fuel stabilizer (e.g. StaBil) in the gas to keep the carb from clogging. The generator won't lose its generating power from not running it, but perhaps the brushes could corrode or bond to the commutator (if yours uses brushes) and you store it a long time without running it in a corrosive/humid environment?

For planning, don't forget oil and air filters are consumables, as well as gas. (The oil-change interval on mine is only 50-hours.)

If you're shopping, some pluses to consider are:
[list]
[*]4-stroke engines generally last longer and are quieter than 2-stroke engines (there are exceptions)
[*]cast-iron cylinder sleeves are good for durability
[*]brushless generators are better than having brushes
[*]Sine-wave output is better than noisy triangular- or square-wave output
[*]low-oil-PRESSURE sensors are better than low-oil-LEVEL sensors, and any low-oil-shutoff sensor is better than nothing
[*]peak wattage of appliances is usually much higher than steady-state wattage
[*]if you get the smallest generator you can live with it will be easier to move, be quieter, use less fuel, and cost less

From previous experience with the NC hurricane curse, buy one before anything happens.
You have never seen price gouging like generator prices when the power is out.
People bring truckloads of generators from out of the affected area and sell them for 3 to 5 times retail.

Thanks for the great input.
I think i will make the investment.
Left LAX on a flight today only to hear that there was a 3.5 quake that hit the area. Not big, but a message from a higher power that tells me it might be time to invest in a generator.

Remember, too, that when you run a generator to keep food cold/frozen in a refrigerator and/or freezer, it is NOT necessary to run it 24/7!!! You only need to run it (for those items) for maybe an hour at a time--the compressor does not run full-time even when power is not out.

Next power outage, I'm going to remind my neighbor of this...had to listen to one run--just for his freezer--for over 24 hours a couple of springs back. He wasted his fuel, & grated the nerves of all his neighbors, though he wasn't even home to mind his generator.

(Sorry, slipped into a bit of a rant...)

David

Skater, before you take the plunge and get a generator you need to decide what you are going to run and be sure you get a large enough generator to run it. If you can get by with one of the inverter type generators (the honda mentioned elsewhere in this thread) i would recommend that. It is small and quiet, your neighbors will appreciate it and most likely not even know you are running it. Also the inverter generators provide clean AC power and are more fuel efficient, the engine speed varies to match the load you are running, most of the non-inverter generators need to run at a constant 3600 rpm to make 60hz electricity.

If you use stabil remember that it is not forever, i have overhauled a number of carb's that were gunked up because someone put stabil in the fuel and left it there for a year or two. Read and follow the manufacturers recommendations for storage, most will recommend running it out of fuel. Since i live on the other coast i have some notice when a hurricane coming and can stock up on fuel, i haven't heard of 72 hour advance notice for an earthquake. You will need to store fuel, make a plan for rotating your fuel supply. Something simple like instead of going to the gas station and filling your vehicle, fill your vehicle from your reserves once every six to eight weeks and then go to the gas station and fill the now empty cans.

You will not have to run the generator 24/7 but be sure you run it enough. After the first hurricane blew through down here i didn't run the refrigerator enough to keep all of the food edible. And also explain to the household the rules of using the fridge when the power is out, it doesn't make cold when you don't hear the generator running.

A few years ago I installed a generator panel next to my main panel. I have a 5K watt generator that's enough to power about 3 circuits, the refrigerator and the heater furnace. I drain the tank and clean out the carburetor after each use. Since the carburetor was inexpensive I got an extra one as a spare. If the first one is gunked up, I can swap them out, clean out the old one had put it aside. The downside is that my generator is loud so I can't run it all the time.

Since I put in the generator panel I've had to use it twice. Both during storms that knocked out the power for about 5-6 hours during the early evening. Since I was the only one in the neighborhood with power we had a block party at my house. My neighbors brought the food and drinks and I had lights. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don't think I could deal with the issues of storing fuel and avoiding gunking up a generator that would sit unused for years at a time. I've just waited out power failures and decided not to get serious about buying a generator. Yeah the stuff in the fridge can go bad if the power is out for too long, but spending $1000 on a generator to rescue 20 bucks of perishibles isn't financially sound. During the east coast blackout last year, people had outdoor barbecues and gave away food so it wouldn't spoil, and it was very relaxed and friendly, nothing like how people imagine NYC.

I could see having a small 12vdc to 120vac inverter to do stuff like charge up portable batteries in the car. You can get a 15 minute NiMH charger with four 2500 mAH AA cells for $25 or so now (Eveready), good for flashlights, radios, etc. It's really not necessary to run all the lights in the house when the power is out. Just have a few LED lanterns and flashlights around, use daylight for doing stuff and sleep at night.

Freezers will last longer without power if you don't open them. It can be worth coordinating this with your neighbors. Pool your freezers in groups of, eg 4. Empty one at a time and share the food between all 4 of you. Hopefully when you come to the last freezer its food will still be fresh because it has never been opened. By cooperating with your neighbors you made it last 4 times as long and everyone benefits.

Chest freezers stand being opened much better than upright ones, and external insulation/lagging should help an unopened one. Filling unused freezer space with ice instead of air helps too.

I'm guessing power is not so important for light as we all have dozens of ultra-bright LEDs now <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

(I expect you know all this but I mention it in case others are reading.)

You have a solid argument for putting a generator low on the priority list.
However, it could depend on how you or your surroundings might be impacted by a disaster. A simple power outage is one thing, the possible damage from a hurricane or earthquake may dictate that with the power out and some damage to deal with, a generator would allow the use (safe use) of certain power tools and lights, as well as the capability to re-charge batteries for some power tools.

Again, it seems to boil down to a decision of personal choice and the amount of money you want to invest in a "what if"scenario.
Having a garage full of very usefull tools during a disaster would be a shame if they were needed and no power source was available.
As a believer in being self sufficient at all times, I think I would still make the investment. Not sure I would keep a generator full and ready to go, but I would gather as much information as possible on the proper storage, maintenance, etc.

To all:

Noise is such a simple and inexpensive problem to deal with, I am suprised to find several postings complaining about it.

The majority of the noise from gas run generators is made by the exhaust of the engine. The cheapest way to resolve that is with a multi-muffler manifold or attaching a large car muffler to it.

Get some black iron pipe which is the same diameter as your engine muffler that screws into the engine exhaust port. To that, install a black iron tee with the center section of the tee the same size as the pipe thread coming out of the engine and the two opposing fittings at least one size larger. Run a pipe from the end of each opposing tee to another tee where the opposing tee connections are the same diameter. The center connection at those tee fittings should be the same size as the muffler you are going to attach to it. Run another pipe from each of those tees to a 90 degree reducing elbow that has the same size pipe diameter at one end and the muffler pipes diameter at the other end. Make sure that the pipes running between the tees and elbows are long enough to allow muffler installation at each point. Attach (4) mufflers and listen to it purr all day long. For an automotive muffler you only need to run pipes, & adapters to clear the generator before clamping the muffler.

The biggest thing to contend with will be the weight this modification puts on the engine exhaust port. If the engine is solidly mounted, just run (2) support bars from a couple of points on the generator chassis meeting at a "U" shaped support at the end of the newly installed manifold. Make the manifold end of the support "U" or "V" shaped so that the manifold just lays on it and do not use any clamps at that end so that the manifold can flex freely when heated by the exhaust.

If the engine is mounted on springs or rubber vibration isolators, you will have to attach a support to the top part of (2) of the engines mounting base bolts so that the support travels with the engine and does not stress the manifold or the engines exhaust port. The (2) support bars should meet at a "U" or "V" fitting supporting the manifold with no clamps so that the manifold can flex freely when heat from the exhaust causes expansion.

Good luck!

Bountyhunter

Personally I think the whole idea of having and maintaining a generator and storing fuel is a waste of time, money and effort for the most part. For 99% of the people out there a generator is about comfort and convenience rather than survival. If youre the other 1% and depend on electricity to power your oxygen tent or something else that keeps you alive and healthy then get the best you can find. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I disagree. For me, and a lot of people I know, having a generator isn't about making blended margaritas after a disaster. It's for the days or weeks aftewards without power. It's for when society begins to normalize and you have to return to your lives. It's inevitavle, eople have to go back to work. I know, I know. It's tough. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> It ain't fun sleeping in high humidity in a hot room with little or no airflow. Then you have to wake up and take a tepid shower and throw on a tie. Add in the fact that some have to take care of the elderly or children and it becomes more difficult. Sure, not getting good sleep, putting on work clothes and going to work stinky ain't gonna kill anybody, but part of survival is managing the mental aspect. Running a wall AC unit, having ice water, and taking a warm shower can go a long way. It may not be survival per se, but there's a reason people don't just store 50 gallons of water, some mainstay rations, and a tarp. If you and your family have to live a few weeks without any power, perspectives change. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh yeah, the margaritas are nice tooo.... <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hey Bounty, the larger muffler is much more effective on the newer OHV engines, i have tried using the auto mufflers on the older flat head Briggs & Stratton engines and it does does take some of the bass note out of the engine noise but it is still loud a 100 feet away. I currently have one of the flat head engines on the spare generator that i loaned to my neighbor during all three of the hurricanes that blew through the neighborhood last year, they had it on the other side of thier house and we are on acre lots. They get up around 6 am because at 6:05 the gen set started up and i could hear it quite well. I have since reinstalled the factory muffler (much smaller package without the big can) and i can't tell any difference in the sound when it is over there. And i am not complaining about the noise, but if i lived in a neighborhood where the houses are close together it might be a different story. And having a spare gen set has it's benefits, while i re-wired his well pump to run on the generator he went out gas shopping. I definitely had the better end of the deal.

The quietest conventional gensets I know of are studio gensets. We used them in the 9th Infantry Division (Motorized) a long time ago (painted proper colors, of course). They were extremely quiet - drove the OPFOR nuts at the NTC because they were used to homing in on brigade CPs by listening for the generators (they never did find our CP - that was just one reason).

Too big for residential standby use, of course - but if you have an opportunity to study one, it will give you a lot of good ideas about how to significantly reduce the noise signature of any genset.

But an air-cooled genset is not going to be capable of being silenced as much as a water cooled one - no way.

Tom

If you get a couple neighbors together, you could power your houses <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Being a ham operator I try to keep a good supply of batteries. A good set of batteries on a trickle charge with an inverter would provide the "emergency power" needed for communications and other things on an as needed basis. It definitely would not work for long term unless you really conserve or have really LARGE batteries. I plan on doing this because I just moved and am on a well now. The generator is in the plans for the future though.

As to fuel. I have a ham friend who is also a M.A.R.S. operator and he has his generator hooked up to his natural gas supply. Now this would only work if the supply line was not damaged, but he has told me that most generators can be converted for this with minimal cost. Most of the time it takes a call to the manufacture to get the instructions.

I have to agree with you Brian. Generators are about convenience. The Amish and anyone living off the grid can attest to this. Unfortunately I was in the 1%, but only because I had a couple of thousand invested in saltwater fish and the tank needed to be maintained.

What is nice about propane and natural gas is it doesn't go bad from storage. No more gummed up carbs. And with some of the conversions you can still run gasoline. If you get a gen set and want to convert it try this site,

http://www.uscarb.com/

Have never dealt with them but the site has a lot of information.

Im sorry but I hear you talking about convenience and comfort... not survival.

"Im sorry but I hear you talking about convenience and comfort... not survival."

It's always a good idea to keep in mind what conditions are likely to immediately after a disaster. When the roads are cleared, you will probably be expected back to work no matter what conditions are like at home.

Having a generator can keep Grandma's oxygen machine going, operate a fan for her, keep all that meat from rotting, etc. In the winter, it's nice to be able to come in from putting a tarp on the roof where the ice-laden tree limb fell, and warm up in front of a small heater. Older people can get hypothermic in a cool house. And if you happen to have a sick baby, cold isn't likely to hurry improvement.

Preparedness is preparing for all levels of a disaster, not just the immediate 3-day aftermath.

Sue

If you mean "don't focus on comfort so much that basic needs are overlooked", I agree.

If you mean "if you ain't sufferin', you ain't survivin'", you're welcome to sleep in your
tent. I'll be inside with the generator powered air conditioning, hot shower, cold drinks
and television. :-)

Okay but once again youre still talking comfort... not survival. Except for the case of Grandma's oxygen machine of course and like I said in my original post, if you are that 0.0001% (like Grandma) that truely *needs* electricity for survival, then go get the best generator you can afford (and ofcourse maintain also).

Yep and Im not arguing that you'll be more comfortable... you will be. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But we will both survive. So while you're "Equipped to be Comfortable" I will suffer with only merely being "Equipped to Survive" <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

That also might be a difference between survival theory and after-disaster reality.

Armchair survival isn't as comfortable as reality. The real thing has GOT to be quite stressful. And if you can handle it okay, what about the people you're living with? A couple of lights and a bit of hot water goes a long way toward helping people who aren't mentally prepared for a distressful situation.

Besides, if you can afford a small generator, you can keep that $800 worth of meat in the freezer from going bad. Just think about all that labor you'll save not having to dig a big hole (at 110 F) to dump all the stinky, rotted packages in when you find out that garbage pickup won't be available for the next 5 weeks! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> (Sometimes there just aren't enough big dogs around when you need them.)

Sue

I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just saying its not about "survival". It's about "comfort".

Paulr, I agree with your setup. I have several inverters to charge up 15-min rechargeable NiMh batteries and run a light bulb and a small TV directly intermittantly from my car. It doesn't make sense to spend a lot of money in my crowded urban setting for a generator and worry about stockpiling large amounts of fuel, fuel stabilization, maintenance and possible mechanical faillure. Generators require .5 to 1 gal per hour - thats a lot of fuel to store. With two cars, I already own two built-in generators with 10+ gallons of gas each, though not the most efficient power source, it'll do in an emergency, since the car generators don't run constantly.

For a last ditch power source I have a solar battery charger for my Nimhs.

Generators make sense for rural folks with lots of room and less of a safety problemfor fuel storage .

Gosh, sure seems like are a lot of "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" kinds of posts on this thread. Also several alternatives that haven't been discussed yet.

Here's my take: Just in the USA alone there are so many diverse climates, built environments (rural, semi-rural, town, major urban area, etc), personal circumstances (age, condition, equipment, ability, etc.), varieties of potential (even probable) "disasters", etc. etc. that it's nonsense to argue about this sort of thing or claim some kind of superior idea, attitude, philosphy, etc.

Most people most places in most situations would get along without a generator. Let's suppose that all the big tough guys (and gals) here would get along in the Backpacker Magazine vague situation with just a knife or just a lighter or just a sleeping bag or... But that's not what this forum is about. "EQUIPPED" to survive, not Tom Brown's naked scout survival school - which is a really cool thing, but not the topic here in general or the original thread in particular.

Got little kids? Live in a cold climate (as opposed to someplace that gets freezing temperatures a few times a year)? Not a real experienced outdoorsman? MacGuyver seems like a genius to you? A little skinny on the equipment for the whole family? - Toss very many of those things together and asking about a genset is a VERY smart question.

Our homes, even if damaged, are a cornucopia of useful items for even the more inept of us, offer great emotional aid to kids (and even adults), even damaged are darned good shelters, etc. Like I said, most people don't need a genset, but that doesn't mean it would hurt to have one. Evaluation of the desirability should be a personal discovery and decision, period.

I am neither endorsing nor naysaying a genset, but I will add some information based on my experiences here and abroad.

Most climates, running a genset for 1 hour out of 4 is quite frequent enough to keep freezer contents safely frozen.

Household refers aren't worth the genset time - eat it, toss it, transfer contents to coolers and rotate gallon jugs of ice from the freezer to the coolers, whatever - be sure to prop the door of the empty refer open, of course.

Need the furnace to run? Same cycle as the freezer will do unless it is below zero F or very windy. In those conditions, there are other decisions to make. Examples: Run 15 minutes every hour (PITN), drain water lines and run furnace on freezer cycle (doable), drain water lines, close down house to interior core (fireplace room?), and only run genset once or twice a day for an hour, etc.

Want to run power tools for interim or permanent damage repairs if the utility lines are down for for extended period of time? Genset... you might as well; an inverter big enough to run a circular saw is expensive and kicks the heck out of your automotive battery and alternator (yes, I am well aware of exceptions) plus usually needs to be hard-wired into your vehicle on the DC side. (and there's a whole grounding issue with power tools that everyone casually forgets to mention or do). I like inverters a lot; I have them in two of my vehicles. But not for household emergency use as a primary backup.

Maintenance? Fuel Storage? Repairs? yadayada - not really problems. What maintenance and repairs? There's very little to do with an infrequently used genset; that's a fact. Store no fuel in it (get a siphon hose for your vehicle - it will have fresh fuel in it), check the hoses and fuel lines annually (more of an "after 5 or more years" thing in most climates), and run it for a half-hour or so once a year if you think of it - use it to power some tools or something cyclical like that to exercise the rpm controls and variably load the generator and engine. Run it bone dry. That's about it, really, even with a "cheap" genset. Sure, you COULD do more if you want to squeeze several thousand hours runtime out of the genset - but that's not the point here; there simply is no need.

There are plenty of downsides to storing and using a genset. It's an expensive thing to sit there waiting to (hopefully) never be used. They seem to always be in the way when you need to get to something else. The noise may attract undesired attention of various sorts - including the sudden silence that happens when it is stolen. If you don't attach it to a good ground, you're gonna get some unpleasant surprises sometime when you're running a power tool. People who know you have a genset will want to borrow it for non-emergency situations. Etc.

We each have to evaluate our own situation and make our own decisions about this, just like anything else. There certainly is no hard-and-fast answer. Arguing that someone else doesn't need a genset is silly and really misses several reality checks. Ditto for arguing that someone else needs a genset.

This isn't after all, as serious and cut-and-dried a decision as which knife is best or which caliber is best - y'all are wrong about those! <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

(No animals were harmed, no wait, wrong disclaimer - YMMV and hope no toes got stepped on - isn't my intention).

Regards,

Tom

After retirement, I have been involved with designing and building homes that were not initially on the power grid. These homes need, by their remote mountain locations, a backup generator. These homes have transfer switches which are tailored to have only essential appliances, well pumps, ground source heat pumps, and lights run off the generator when power is lost. Not all generator sets need constant maintenance. It all depends on the fuel used and technology used to generate the power.

Having formerly been a maintenance engineer, I still have every generator I ever owned including a gas fueled Honda that is twenty one years old. My favorite two generators are Auragens. They require no maintenance other than visual inspection to see that nothing is loose or worn. The only part that can wear out are bearings. My vehicles diesel engines power the Auragens. These are very unique generators. That are used by the military, utility companies, and aid vehicles.

These generators normally cost thousands of dollars, but I have obtained new ones off of eBay for less than $350 and that includes the adapter for my specific diesel truck. That is less than the cost of a cheap gas generator. You can check their web site if you are interested, aurasystems.com. But if you had to pay someone for installation and programming, expect to spend substantially more money.

It is a pleasure to have both 5KW generating capacity and a vehicle with a sixty five gallon diesel fuel tank. It sure is weird to provide AC power to a filling station in order to pump diesel fuel into your own truck. One of the problems for utility and rescue vehicles is obtaining fuel when there is no power to the fuel stations. I can even run the Auragen while I am driving which is great for a parade tow vehicle!

This is one of the "not discussed yet" options I mentioned in my previous post, and your well-powering example is on-the-spot (need 240v for most well pumps these days). My Dad is miles from water if his well doesn't work, and a portable genset is part of his primary backup. It's so important to him (not simply drinking water - he lives in amongst the pinion nut trees and scrub brush - wildfires are a threat) that he even has a second well on standby with a 120v pump (instead of 240v).

The Auragen is a very neat system. Basically a 200+ amp alternater mated with a sophisticated sine wave inverter. I've seen this sort of set-up under the hoods of built 4x4s (and in cabs, for the inverter). I didn't know about the remote-start option, though.

You're right - this would be a very slick "stealth" setup for the urbanite. AFAIK they sell mounting kits for about any mid-90s or later big 3 full-size truck/SUV, not just big-rig diesels.

Regards,

Tom

AyersTG:

If your dad is miles away from a water source in case of power failure, wouldn't it be a good idea for him to have a windmill powered pump for water and it could also power a generator?

What is the deepest a handle powered pump can bring water up from and what manually operated style of pump would reach the deepest to extract water from the ground?

Bountyhunter

AyersTG,

I don't have big rig diesels. Both my trucks are either 2500 or 2500HD Chevrolets. As equipped, they range in gross weight of between 8600 and 9000 pounds. I had to wait a year for Auragen to made an adapter for the Duramax Diesel.

It is no longer on their web site, but Auragen has units up to 12KV.

In some of the rural areas, the local codes requires that the new home owner build a large pond to permanently store water to allow the rural fire department to have a source of water to fight a home fire. This also puts the home owner into a different risk class for insurance costs. Some home owners have utilized these ponds for fish and as swimming areas for their families enjoyment. In dry times, these ponds become an oasis for wild life.

Your information regarding these Auragens has peaked my interest. Do they provide "clean" power for computers like the inverter-type Hondas? And are they strictly diesel power?

Regards, Vince

Auragens sound like DTO (direct take off) generators, i.e. they are mechanically attached to the truck engine driveshaft and are powered by it. They don't have their own motor so they don't care what kind of fuel the truck uses. I agree, that's an interesting approach, and $350 is an amazingly good price. I don't see any on ebay right now. Of course to use one, you need a DTO-equipped truck.

I still think most of these applications (well pump where there's a well with enough water to put out forest fires? $800 worth of food in the freezer?!) are if not in the .01%, then maybe in the 1% or 2%. If you want to keep that much food around the house, try nonperishables.

I agree that having a light in a room is psychologically comforting, but it doesn't have to be full powered. A white LED bounced off the ceiling is plenty to see around the room and that's easy to do on battery power.

As for starting a furnace, would a computer UPS do it? Those are fairly inexpensive and compact compared with a generator. Anyway, have some warm blankets around.

I think for most properly equipped people, even an extended power failure with no generator, as long as the building itself is still intact so you have a roof over your head, should be no more than an inconvenience. The whole city of Auckland, NZ had no power for several months in 1998 and got by just fine.

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/misc/mercury.txt

.. " just fine" ... ???!!!.... <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Frenchy:

You have to understand that those New Zealanders are tough.

In my younger days, I have gone out with American born women who, if they don't get their electrically powered facial humidification in the morning could tear any highly trained Military platoon apart from shear frustration. <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

If you ever have such a woman, buy the generator!

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Paulr,

The Auragens can be powered four basic ways, through an adapter attached to the front of the vehicle’s engine and powered by a belt, through a power-take-off or hydraulic pump attached to the vehicle, or from a stationary engine of at least 9 HP for the 5 KW version or a 15 HP for the 8.5 KW version. As long as the engine is adapted to be throttled by the Auragen’s computer control, any engine of sufficient HP can run the Auragen. All engines can be adapted. And as you can see, most vehicles have enough power to run the Auragens. The Auragen generator is not very big so most vehicle’s engine compartments have room for it. The generator weights 65 pounds.

When I was still slaving for a living, one of my coworkers decided to build a retirement home on the Southeast Slopes of Mount Adams in Washington State. I have owned land there since the ‘70s. It is a private ranchers association and the association owns and maintains the roads. I was trying to convince my coworker to plan for power outages in the design of his proposed home. The nearest power at that time was one half a mile away. We would have to build a power line to him the next spring.

We built the barn / work shop first. The snow load there is 80 pounds per square foot and on occasion can be ten feet in depth. So, it is a well built barn. We were finishing the barn on alternate weekends during the winter since the house was to be started the following spring. A large snow storm came through. We, being busy in Portland, Oregon, the swamp, did not pay much attention to the weather reports. With both our trucks full of supplies and tools, we headed up there. Everything was going fine, the association had cleared all the roads. All the roads until we got to the infamous “Hell Hill.” That was the next to the last leg for us. It was just too steep for the normal snow plow. It was so steep that when I was hauling up the power utility poles on a long trailer the following spring, I had to place a heavy boulder on the tongue of the trailer to keep the weight of the poles from lifting my truck’s back wheels and losing traction. We “procured” a front end loader and a cat. We pushed and hauled snow for half the day. When we finally finished at the top of the hill, there was a long line of vehicles waiting to go down. We went on an did our work. We did not find out until the next trip that these people had been without power and telephone for seven days. There was no cell service up there.

These people were newcomers and had never experienced a harsh winter up there. The prior winters had been unusually mild. When they had their homes built, they went all electric. They had no heat, hot water, cooking facilities, or water from their wells. Some families contained three generations, from very young to elderly. The local old timers were unaware of their plight since power outages were a common occurrence and it had always been a part of their normal life. A few people had barbecued in their out buildings but were running out of fuel. It was a very cold week! Even though frozen food was fine they had no way to cook it. Their can goods burst. They were in a panicked rush when we cleared Hell Hill. Some never came back. One family abandon their home forever and it went back to the bank. No one suffered injury however many homes were for sale the following spring.

I had no problem convincing my coworker to”Be Prepared” and build his home for his family to survive in that environment. He has lived up there for close to ten years now and has been through many storms and power outages and loves it.

yeah, yeah, yeah.....

I know you like to live dangerously ........ <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As we're in the the midst of (another) massive flood, I can tell you that a generator is a small investment that will pay for itself with only one use, if it keeps your home from flooding and food from rotting. Any inter-tied system should use a proper transfer switch. Honda engines last forever, that's what we use at the fire department. Be careful using electronic gear on cheap generators, they don't have good voltage and freqeuncy control.

ive seen some generator sites that advertise models that can be used indoors ( specifically apartments / duplexes) does anyone have any experience with those or some suggestions about buying or even avoiding them?

These are not "generators" in the sense that you're turning mechanical energy into electicity. These "indoor generators" are just large batteries with a power inverter. Xantrex makes a few of these, and you see them advertised in various catalogs. They have a limited run life, limited capacity and need to be recharged over a realtively long period of time. They are best for lighting and least effective for loads like a refridgerator or freezer.

The model most widely seen is this one:
http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/63/p/1/pt/5/product.asp