Bowdrill fire?

Does anyone on this forum master the skill of how to make burning ember/coal with a bow and drill? And getting an open flame from the process? I have seen it being done but never mastered it myself (not enough patence) :o)<br><br>Stefan, Sweden

I can do it. That said, I still carry several forms of firemaking.You just don't pick up two sticks and rub them together. You have to select the correct materials( which may not be at hand),shape the materials( time factor),Keep the tension just right and nurture a tiny ember with the care of a pediatrician. It is a practice intensive skill, and one not easily learned from a book. If you've seen it done,approach that person for instruction.

I heard a story once of a group of people who learned to make a fire with a bow and drill but in the field when they were "dropped off" to test their skills, they went a week without fire because it was not as easy as when they were in a more controlled environment.<br><br>I, like Chris, carry several ways to make fire. A tool that will cut down to dry wood if everything is soaked is a must too. That's why I believe in a good fixed blade. <br><br>That aside I think the bow and drill is a facinating way to make a fire.

I made my first bow drill fire 15 years ago and I practice under worst case condition like dunking the set under water or making it with only a pebble size flake and I still carry matches and a snythetic flint. What it does do though is a great plan "C" and make the rest of your fire making skills better since you need almost perfect tinder ,wood ect. I've never seen a good bow driller have much trouble starting a fire under bad field conditions with a match ect. It force you to keep from cheating or over estimating your fire making skills.

Yeah, I hear you Tracker. I think practicing a skill like this will make you better at parallel skills. I don't doubt an expert could do it better. <br><br>I did think it to be interesting what the teacher said about his students though. A group of people who could easily acomplish the task in a class type senario went without fire for a week in the wild.<br><br>Lately I've been starting fires in my backyard with a fresnel lens. There has always been a bit of pyro in me I guess.The bow and drill method is definitly a more primative and satisfying way to do it.

So this "instructors" students went for a week in the wild without fire? On whom does this reflect? The students, or the teacher? I presume he received compensation for his "training". Were I his student, I would expect a refund and apology.

Chris, the "instructor" is someone who is "well known" in this field. With a little searching I found the passage that I was remembering. He claims that the "advanced students" did not search in the right places for their materials. I found the passage in "Tom Brown's Field Guide to Wilderness Survival." It was under Fire Making Techniques/The Bow Drill/Wood Selection. <br><br>He definately has his detractors as well as his groupies. I have read some of his writings and those of others discussing him, but I have never met him personally so I can't comment in a reasonable manner.<br><br>I don't believe everything I read. I never have, but I give it the weight that I think it deserves. Sometimes I am more lenient than other times. I keep my mind as open as possible but in this case I tend to agree with you.

I've taken about a dozen classes from TB over the years and while the week without fire is extreme its part of how he teaches. He believes failure is a great teacher so in every skill he gives you he leaves something out before you go out to practice it and you either figure it out on you own or he gives it to you after the exersive. Either way you'l never make the same mistake again.He reminds me of my old karate instructor who taught me some hard lesson in the dojo,3 trips to the doctor, but when I really needed it I walked away from a knife attack without a scratch. Tom also spends the class closely observing the student and if he see someone setting themselves up for a fatal mistake he arranges for it to happen in the class instead of for when its for real .

Tracker, My comment was not a blanket condemnation of Tom Brown. I too, have taken a class with him. Failing a task, and being miserable under the watchfull eye of instructors is one thing. Failing a potentially critical task as firemaking on your own quite another. The first post gave this impression. There have been many casualties from overzealous, or inadequate training. The drowning of Marine recruits years ago demonstrates no organization is immune. My concern is only with people who THINK they are prepared after a given course.

Thanks for the insight Tracker. This is a very interesting thread.<br><br>The passage in his book did not go into any detail over his whereabouts during the exercise. He simply said a group of his advanced students were unable to successfully make fire with a bow and drill set for a week, and that they went without fire. Maybe the wording made certain impressions on me. I read this book 15 years ago and in whole it certainly make an impression on me,however it has been years since I have picked it up and looked at it.<br><br>Overall I really like the book, and I appreciate his being able to go into the wilderness "naked and survive" approach. I based my little essentials bag on his "survival belt pack" in the last chapter. <br><br>Chris, the reason for my original post was to agree with you that a redundancy in fire making methods is needed. It is certainly that important to me.

A friend of mine was in the class discribed in the story and you might find the details interesting. It happened in Washington state and it rained and was foggy all week long, the worst possible fire making conditions, but they weren't there to learn bow drill. Bow drill is a standard class skill and he expects you to know it for advanced class so he can spend time on new skills. If the student wants a fire their expected to make it on their own , but in this situation they really didn't need a fire. And at the end of the week Tom showed them were to get perfect materials and they started fires ,no problem. In fact they had walked by the perfect materials at least a hundred times.If they had had took to heart what TB had said about skills, nature providing and awareness they would have had fire the first day. Instead they thought fire was impossible under those conditions and didn't push past their percieved limitations. I personlly think their are several priceless lessons in what he taught them and TB only spent mabe 20 minites of class on it and the class was only out a little discomfort. By the way I agree with you if I paid to learn bow drill and didn't get it I'd want my money back too, but that wasn't the case in this situation, infact the students still talk fondly about their experience although they grumbled like #$%& at the time.

Thankyou tracker for the clarification. One of the pitfalls of a discipline ( such as wilderness survival) is gaining access to all the particulars of recorded events. I have been disappointed many times ( not just survival training) shelling out my time and money ( both rather dear these days) to learn a skill. Sitting through a seminar and hearing about A. religon B. why I am the best instructor, and why instructor X is a fake or C. Ill get to you after I spend another 20 minutes with this pretty student becomes rather demoralizing. Perhaps in the future we may have measured and impartial reviews of instructors and schools by actual students. I am tentatively attending the next desert trek with Peter Bigfoot at Reevis Mountain School .

I agree Chris, and while I think an evaluation of instructors would be great its a mine field, theirs as much ego and politics as the martial arts field. The only good luck I've had is talking to someone more skilled than me and finding out what they thought of the different schools they had attended. Its also a little personality dependent, some people due better with some instructors than others. By the way I'm in the same bind Mors class at Karamat looks good but without talking to someone who has been their I'm hesitant to spend my money and time

I couldn't agree more Tracker. A good teacher is only half of the equation. Good students are needed too. If they are not paying attention for one reason or another these things can happen. <br><br>I really liked your more detailed account of the fireless incident. I found it very interesting. Although I had no idea the thread would head in this direction because of that example, it has proved very insightful indeed in several ways.<br><br>It also has me reading my TB Wilderness Survival book again. Good book!

FWIW, our scout troop is campinmg this weekend. It was originally scheduled as a cold weather outing. But we're expecting temps in the upper 60's in Northeast Illinois (perfect meteor watching weather).<br><br>Anyway, we're going to review firestarting techniques, not necessarily survivial. I'm doing the MFS with dryer lint and Petrolium Jelly cotton balls (I've never tried the cotton balls myself so it'll be a learning experience for me). Another leader is bringing a battery and steel wool. Another is bringing his bowdrill. From the way he spoke about it, it sounds as if he's used it before. I've never seen one work in person so it'll be cool to try.