Limitations of a 2" blade?

Okay first of all lets assume that for the purposes of this conversation we are talking about fixed blade knives . The pros and cons of folder vs fixed blade have been discussed enough as it is already IMHO so lets keep it simple and assume all knives in question (for the purposes of this thread) are fixed blade. Besides, the reason I'm asking is because I recently purchased and am waiting on shipment of a full tang 2" fixed blade right now.

Just a little background info. This August I will be taking on a new job where I can have absolutely no knife on my person that is longer than 2" in the blade. Actually this is pushing it as it is. It would be best if I have no knife at all but I'm not about to concede to that degree. However an extremely well concealed 2" knife is the absolute most I can carry. Since I prefer strong knives I ruled out small 2" folders immediately (I love my BM310 but it's just not that tuff). Not to mention that a recent post by Molf got me interested in finding a knife and fire starter that I can truely carry 24/7... even in the shower.

Okay so there's the background info, now here's the question.

Aside from chopping and/or battoning wood what do you feel are the limitations of a 2" fixed blade when compared to a 4" fixed blade of relatively the same thickness and general durability? Other than chopping and battoning (because those are obvious) does the 4" blade have any advantages over the 2" blade strictly due to its length?

I almost always carry a short fixed blade knife. I find it very handy and while I suppose it would be a bit less capable than a 4" knife in many applications, I have not found it to be much of an issue at all.

I can carry up to a 4" knife here, but usually currently carry a pocket fixed that is just under 3" (Ingram Lacer), but some days choose one of the below.

My exact 2" fixed is this pocket wharncliffe from Gene Ingram. This can be had in a droppoint configuration also, but I like this wharncliffe very much.



Another that is just a quarter inch over 2" is this Gene Ingram SLK that I had done up in a neck sheath. Again handy and can be worn under my shirt.



Here they are together with a small Sebenza and #4 Ingram DropPoint (2.5" blade).



I find these small fixed blades to be especially useful on a daily basis and "acceptable" in my work environment.



BTW, I braided the neck thong for this SLK.

I'm also a big fan of Gene Ingram knives, and often carry an SLK or Naked Pocket knife.

I find that for slicing, the long cutting edge of a big belly offsets the shorter blade quite nicely. It requires only minimal adjustment to your motor skills.

Purely armchair b.s. but they say it takes 4 inches to reach vital organs in a thrust. So, if you're practicing to use the 2-inch blade defensively, you'd want to emphasize slashes.

Finally, you might investigate keeping a longer, serrated, plastic-handled, obviously kitchen knife knife at your desk for cutting fruit or cake that won't succumb to your 2-inch blade.

Bear

Here is my Pocket Ingram, just over one inch but with scales not naked. The naked version like dchinell has is particularily easy to carry.



I think these are much better than a utility knife.

I have reveiwed Gene's site many time though I have yet to make a purchase from him. I really like those Pocket Ingrams, especially the naked ones because they seem like they would be easy to conceal.

The kitchen knife idea would be a good on save that where I would be working that would be unacceptable. To give a little more background info, security is such an issue that having an exposed pair of pointed scissors would be grounds for dismissal if not worse. Safety scissors only. It's not me that my employer is worried about having the knife. The concern would be that the knife would "fall in to the wrong hands". This is why it's technically okay to carry a small knife if it is 110% concealed and secure but I would never be able to present it except in the most extreme situations (tornado takes out half the building, etc). As far as defense goes, sure it is a consideration but I am thinking almost entirely from a survival prosective rather than a defensive prospective since I would not be allowed to present the knife in a defensive situation except perhaps the most extreme types such as multiple armed suspects take control of the building (a la Columbine High School) in which case the knife probably wouldn't be the best weapon at hand since I could most likely improvise a better one.

Sounds like so far I have heard from two people that feel a 2" fixed blade is adequate for most survival situations although I know from reading your EDC articals that you also carry larger knives on a regula basis also, at least if I am remebering you artical correctly.

A quality two inch blade could do about 95% of what I ask my big-game hunting knives to do in the field: open up the animal, remove internal organs, and cut the animal in half for easier transport. I'm sure it could do a lot of butchering as well, with some difficulty. Depending on the blade shape it could probably do most of the skinning I typically do as well. ( I don't skin by hand very often.) It would be my ideal choice for rabbits, gamebirds, and fish (the "survival menu" in my neck of the woods.)

Those Ingram knives sure are sweet--pure function. What kind of 2" blade did you order? Any pics/links?

Regards, Vince

When I worked at a Toyota dealership as a salesman, they hired a mechanic who came to work on his first day, started unloading his tools, lit a cigarette, was told there was no smoking in the facility, loaded his tools back on his truck and left.

When I went to work at a Native American casino here in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, they supplied us with uniforms that had all the pockets sewn up. I slit all the pockets open, told my boss I was a HVAC-R technician that depended on his pockets regularly and was not going to wear uniforms with sewn pockets. I was allowed to keep my job and all subsequent maintenance mechanics (Not the slot and gambling machine repairmen.) were allowed to use their pockets or not.

It was not my stand alone (The great Frenchman Charles DeGaulle was quoted as saying that "Graveyards are full of indispensible individuals".) that allowed a variance in policy, but the fact that it made sense to my boss who sided with my view.

It all depends on what you will put up with. An employer that does not trust me with a reasonable (3" minimum.) knife on my person is not worried about it falling into the wrong hands, he just does not trust me.

As for cutting fruit and cake with a 2" bladed knife, having a knife that small is a good reason to give the fruit to the other guy and eat the whole cake while apologizing for not being able to cut and share the cake because your knife is too small. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Bountyhunter

Sick to death of folding knives that failed, I, too, carry a sub 2" fixed blade every day. Typically, it's one of the following ...







A 2" +/- fixed blade is tough, handy, and very concealable. I've used mine for every task that a pocketknife could be called upon to perform and have not felt lacking for another blade at all.

The only problem that I have encountered with such a small fixed blade is that they don't reach into the bottom of a large jar of peanut butter very well. THAT task gets messy...

M <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Once again, looking back helps us look forward. Oetzi carried a small flint knife. It was splattered in blood from an antagonist and Oetzi himself suffered similar slashing wounds. But lets expand beyond black thunderbirds and neolithic 'men in Black.' The Grohmann bird and trout, Marbles ring knife and several slipjoint trapper models are all usefull butchering tools. If you have a wire saw even large game can be butchered. Skinning does not require a Green River Buffalo knife. Fisting, or using a tool of wood or bone will work just as well.

"Skinning does not require a Green River Buffalo knife. Fisting, or using a tool of wood or bone will work just as well."

I totally agree. Considerably less romantic and picturesque, I now hitch up my ATV to a rock tied inside the skin of the hanging animal and SLOWLY drive away. The skin comes off readily enough.

But I know how to do it by hand thanks to Pop. I owe a lot to that old man. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Regards, VInce

Thankfully, mankind has come a long way. So has his gear. Yes, wood and bone will work; but I opt to thrive - not survive. I enjoy my comfort and my tools...

M

I ordered a HideAwayKnife made by Ken Brock in S30V and with a polymer coating. A very non-traditional design to say the least but I suspect it will suit my purposes well. Extremely light weight (1oz) and very concealable due to the basic shape/design and a IMO very reasonable price for a custom knife in S30V also. Another advantage that appealed to me was the ability to hold on the the knife easily while doing other stuff with your hands. Once I receive it (this week some time) I will post pics and a review.

Good choice with the hideaway, I don't have one yet, but a buddy of mine has about 10. Great little knives for the price and top notch craftsmenship. Not sure who I want to make mine.

Brian:

Around here, it would be easier for me to explain to a police officer how I accidently forgot that I had put a 7" fixed blade knife w/sheath in my back pocket under my coat than trying to explain why I was concealing such a specialty knife with a name like "HideawayKnife".

I guess that's just one of the perks of living in Texas.

Bountyhunter

Paul810:

Considering that New Jersy is one of those states that does not allow its citizens to own bayonet blade knives, how in the world do they reconcile allowing "hideaway knives"?

Bountyhunter

New Jersey law says I can carry basically any fixed blade other then a dagger, dirk, or stiletto as long as I am not carrying it with intent to harm another person. So, being I work in construction I could carry one of those straight ones and probibly get away with saying I carry it because I can use it to cut things and still keep the knife in my hands while working up on the scissor lift and loader, ( basically high places), where to put a knife down could be a potential hazard to people below if it was to fall off. As long as you have a good reason other then "personal defense" and the law doesn't say "no fixed blades" or "no hidden knives" or something like that (basically a description of what you are carrying) you should be able to carry it, just make sure you have your lawyers phone number handy. You have to remember that the way the law is written if a cop wants something to be illegal then it will be taken from you anyway, if the cop is having a bad day you will get hassled for something no matter what. I keep in my head that all my knives are for utility and if I do happen to use them in defense I expect to be locked up for a while or atleast fined/have to pay some fee. Therefore, unless the other guy has a knife or something worse or i'm being beaten by a group the knife stays hidden. You have to treat it with the same respect as a firearm, you don't go pulling your gun out everytime someone says they want to fight you.

Hello SgtMike88Ret,
I hadn't heard of Bark River Knives before. Very cool. What is the knife in the first picture with "PROTOTYPE" marked on the blade? And a follow up... How can I get me hands on one?
Thanks SgtMike88Ret
Michael

Funny thing was I was thinking the same thing - So what is the first knife in the first picture, seems smaller than the Mikro. I haven't seen mention of this knife on KF, did I miss it on the Bark River Forum?

Adam

Paul810:

I don't know----------------what with my bad kness pulling out a gun because someone wants to fight me doesn't sound like a bad idea. At the very least I could shoot them in both knees so that it would be a fair fight. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

IMHO, Michaelj, the biggest bang for the buck in Bark River knives are the "Woodland" and "Highland" Specials offered by AG.Russell for $55 and $60 respectively (plus $5.95 S&H). I'm not certain they are still in stock, though. HTH.

Adam, Yes, you missed it. It's on another forum under a thread titled "From Daydream to reality in 7 hours." The knife will be called the Mikro Slither and is still a few months away from production...

M

I do carry larger knives but I have no legal or work restrictions.

If I was in your shoes I would evaluate carefully the tools you ultimately choose. I have a HideAway also, but choose not to carry it at work as I think it is far less friendly than the larger knives I can and do carry. It is a very special purpose defense knife with some utility functions which is not the primary reason I carry any knife.

I can legally carry up to a 4" fixed blade, but tend to carry 2" or 3" blades max on my body.

My primary use is as a utility blade, opening boxes, bags, slicing fruit for lunch etc. So my choices are meant to serve that role and not appear to be a "weapon" or to be some sort of last ditch survival tool. Of course, some people think an Executive SAK is a "weapon".....they can sometimes be shown the utility of a decent knife....sometimes.

Your carry restrictions are somewhat rare and unusual I would think.

There are handmade bamboo scales capable of greater accuracy than most units short of digital. The traditional snowshoe lacing pattern produces @ 30% more elastic bounce than a standard tennis raquet.The finest lithic tools make cuts so fine they are now used in surgery with dramaticly reduced healing times. It is cultural hubris to think all of humanity somehow lived a grim existence before our enlightened age of microwave icecream and cutlery with fancy metallurgy. Depending solely on our technological arrogance leaves us open to fail, which we do with alarming regularity in hostile worlds people using bone and wood think of as their living room.

I know my problem is that I can buy the tech, but I rarely go outside. I wonder what the Ancients
would have done with our toys... in many cases our modern stuff is better, in quantifiable
ways, but we've long since forgotten how to use it properly.

Obviously 'traditional , primative' or whatever other clumsy and often prejudicially named people of the world embrace superior technology as eagerly as anyone else. My point is simple; people just do not wake up nude and shivering and decide to flake a knife, construct a bowdrill and hope a mastadon stumbles by for breakfast every day of their short, miserable lives. For anyone to do so is mere stunt, with the safety net of modern society to (hopefully) send a rescue helicopter when the 3 fires attract the attention of a satellite. It is no less a stunt to venture out with an overloaded backpack of wirling gizmos in imitation of an astonaut's space walk. There is a rational medium of basic kit and extensive knowledge, which includes the inspiration to pick up a shoulder blade, and with THUS SPRACH ZARATHUSTRA booming realise a skinning knife, bone saw, winch and body bag aren't neccessary to butcher the deer we just drove a grizzley off with our zippo <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Someone should go through ETS and collect your posts into one document. It'd make a great
"Notebooks of Lazarus Long" kinda thing. Well said, as always.

WOW just saw the thread - quite an interesting little scalpel.

Adam

what about the following small fixed blades:

Carson F4
from Columbia River
http://www.crkt.com/carsonf4.html

and

Street Scalpel from Tops Knives
http://www.topsknives.com/products/knives/scalpel.html

any opinions of how these compare with Bark River Knives?

You don't need 4" to reach a major artery.

"Security" is so tight at your new place of employment that they won't trust you with any knife at all, not even scissors, much like kindergarten, but will overlook a knife with a 2-inch blade?

I hope this new job is worth it to you. They better be paying you lots of money. They will be treating you like a child. I was a child once. I am an adult now and I prefer to be treated that way.

Besides, any entity that would be leary of the blade on a Swiss Army would make me rather leary of it.

Pretty soon we will all be frightened of our own shadows.

-- Craig

The job is absolutely worth it and the pay stinks. I'm taking a pretty big pay cut for this job actually but its not the kind of job you take for the money. I have a 50/50 chance of being placed at a facility with metal detectors at all entrances. If I am in one of these facilities then of course all bets are off and I best get to napping a flint blade for EDC. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> If I am not at a metal detector facility then anything is okay as long as it can be concealled 200% effectively plus carried in a way that makes it impossible for it to be gotten in to someone elses hands. In otherwords there can be absolutely zero chance of it falling out of a pocket (or whereever its being concealed) when running, jumping, bending over, sitting, standing, breaking up a fight, restraining a person or multiple people or pretty much anything else imaginable.

What about a Fred Perrin's Griffe made out of G10
here is one...

A mental health facilty, I'm guessing? If so, you are a far better person than I am. May The Force be with you. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

-- Craig

Pretty darn close. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

More power to you. In my area, Norristown State Hospital is always advertising for help. That's where they put people who have more serious mental and emotional problems. And sometimes they escape merely by wandering away. I could no more work there than I could be a Marine (I am only 130 pounds. My pack would weight more than me!).

-- Craig

I was about to state the same thing that a 2" blade will not reliably reach the heart of a grown human. Opening an artery is not nearly as quick a debilitating act, but can be effective if you can defend yourself long enough for the assailant/victim to bleed out. A pierced heart/lung is much more efficient.

Im not interested in using it for defense so that is not an issue. I am only concerned with its usefulness as a tool (cutting, battoning, prying etc) in emergency situations.