A question to those who have a dog

Posted by: Molf

A question to those who have a dog - 01/26/05 10:16 AM

Which way do you prepair for your four-legged friend on a outdoor-trip or a survival-/bug-out scenario? What items do you carry for them? Which way do you care for their shelter-needs (special kind of sleepingbag for example) ?

Thanks
Molf
Posted by: GoatRider

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/26/05 03:08 PM

Dogs don't really need much, since they are closer to being wild animals than we are. The fur coat really helps. I bring a little mini-tent as a portable kennel, just because she feels more secure when she's got a "home". She sleeps in the big tent with us at night though. I also have half of a yoga mat that I lay out so she doesn't have to lay in the dirt, and I also use one in the big tent by the door to keep her from tracking in dirt. If it's going to be at all warm out, I bring a cool-pad: a water filled pad that helps keep the dog cool. Dog's have much more problems keeping cool than warm.

Most of a dog's first aid needs can be met out of the human kit.
Posted by: brian

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/26/05 03:38 PM

My dog is a Lab (YMMV w/ other breeds) and I don't make any special preparation for her in my kits. She doesnt need any first aid items other than what I already carry for myself and she is quite capable of finding her own food and water and as Goatrider already pointed out, she carries her shelter with her everywhere she goes. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: GoatRider

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/26/05 04:04 PM

And the worst possible thing you could do to a dog is leave it behind. Dogs LOVE being in the wilderness with their people.
Posted by: Polak187

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/26/05 05:35 PM

My lab bernie knows two tricks and just to make sure he doesnt screw up he does them both at the same time. But Bernie is my pal and a sidekick. I had a dogie harness for him that would fit 10 beers <cough> dog food cans </cough> but he looked misreable with it while running around. I don't have a heart to train him to walk with it. When we camp he sleeps outside guarding the tent and than he comes inside to warm up. I don't make any special provisions for him and we know that Nathans tastes better than Alpo.

What I'm trying to say I would love Bernie to be what he is in the survival situation because it would bring more of the positive attitude and I be much happier having him around.

As far as the defense goes he is huge but he is a coward but he has the intimidation factor going for him.

Bernie
Posted by: Chris Kavanaugh

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/26/05 05:51 PM

Sled dogs have booties made of leather or heavy nylon with a simple single lace. If you anticipate rough terrain, or possible debri from an urban disaster they are usefull.
Posted by: Susan

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/26/05 06:40 PM

Identification! Collar, tags, microchip.

And if anyone here says "Oh, MY dog wouldn't run off", I will track you down and beat you up with a big stick. I've found thin, starving dogs in the desert and the mountains, both times wearing tags.

I also have a second ID tag with my vet's phone & address, and a written agreement with them that they will take her in no matter who delivers her: a friend, a stranger, a LEO.

Sue
Posted by: ChristinaRodriguez

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/26/05 09:33 PM

If my pup of 15+ years was alive and cancer-free, I would've rigged a baby-carrier style backpack for her. She wouldn't have been able to walk much in her old age.

They have these neat life vest sets that you and your dog can wear, with loops to rig a leash. A guy I know goes canoeing with his lab, but the dog will get tired of swimming and needs to get towed back in the canoe after a while.
Posted by: JohnN

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/27/05 06:57 AM

In general, I tend to mostly concentrate on urban survial situations. Mostly centering around working in downtown Seattle in an older part of town which I don't think would tollerate an earthquake very well. If I was lucky enough to make it out of the building alive, I figure I need to deal with some injuries and then a long hike home in most likely rough terain (debris). In my case this would be hoofing it 25 miles, and that assumes the bridges are passable.

I have an older lab (~80lbs) who comes to work with me. In thinking about how I'd survive and make it home, I have also thought about Sophie and steps to take for her.

Most of the things common with my own needs, like first aid, food and water:

I tend to see water as one of the major components of my office and car BOB and I keep a fair amount to cover both myself and Sophie.

Along with water, I do keep some food, but I see this as much less of a critical area. My office BOB has some of those little cans of tuna and I figure both her and I could use the same stash of food.

I do carry a few items just for her as well, but in general she is tough and adaptable. We exercise her a fair amount and have a good feel for her limits.

I keep a set of those dog booties in my backpack in case of rough terrain.

While I haven't got one yet, I've had my eye on these Dog Rescue Harnesses.



I consider the harness for two reasons. One, in an earthquake, it seems to me that there could be a lot of obsticles to deal with. Also, in case of injury, it would be very helpful to have a way to carry her.

I would really like a dog dust mask, but I just haven't seen anything like this and haven't come up with too many brilliant ideas on making one.

I haven't had good luck with dog backpacks and due to her age, I've not really tried to find a good one (but I'd be interested if others have any recommendations). EDIT: The main problem I've had with them is they chafe the dog. Same for harnesses. While I'm sure there are better packs and harnesses, I think part of the problem is the dog's shape works against you here a bit.

I agree about the tags/id chips and Sophie always has both. But I never thought about this as kit gear because I think this is just part of the basics of having a dog. Good point tho.

-john


Sophie


Posted by: ratstr

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/27/05 07:06 AM

Susan,

You will need to track a long way down to Istanbul, my malinois will not run off. But you are right about ID, she wears a collar and a tag all the time.

I always have the box for her in the car, she always travels in the box and we always have her favorite toy with us.

Not all the dogs necessarily run off. That is breed and training related.

Burak
Posted by: Raspy

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/27/05 08:30 AM

John you asked about a dust mask for your dog. Well the first idea that hit me was start with a muzzle. After all they are made to fit around a dogs mouth and nose. Might not be a happy puppy but. Then take filter paper and cover the muzzle. You might have to piece something together from people dust masks or coffee filters. With the coffee filters you might need a double layer. Then have several so it can be replaced. Not real sure of the best method of hooking filter to muzzle that would take some trial and error.

Not sure if it would work but might be a place to start.
Posted by: dave750gixer

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/27/05 12:45 PM

Apart from dogs that are completely or mostly furless (chinese crested) etc then a dogs coat should do for protection. I have Pyenean Mountain Dogs (Great Pyrenese in the US). They have very thick fur coats with two layers and are relatively immune to cold and wet. Ok they are a bit on the extreme side and wont actually get out of the shallow hole they have dug in the lawn to seek their kennel or tarp unless it is raining heavilly, muddy or below about -4 degrees centigrade. Their coat is ridiculous in comparison to shorter coated breeds but its not cold or wet you have to worry about (especially cold) but heat. Particularly with flat faced breeds. Pekinese, boxers etc. They can die of heat stoke very very quickly even in the UK. Shade is more important from sun than anything else.

Shelter needs for dogs can therefore be basically the same as ours (tarp to shelter under, something to lie on if the ground is wet or very cold) with the addition of a secure ground anchor (looks like a giant metal corkscrew) or tree to tie them to. I find my dogs are happy enough in any conditions as long as I am with them. They would not want left behind.

The other thing to take is a collapsable water bowl unless you dont mind sharing your cooking pot!, although mine have been trained to drink from taps, streams from bottles and using water pistols (I have a small son). They will happilly drink from muddy puddles with no ill effects (I frisked them but have never found any purification tablets, milk bags or pumps so either something funny is going on or they hide them well <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />). Food wise they usually get dog food and view "people food" or leftovers as a massive treat. In a real emergency stuff the dog food they will happily eat what I eat (and weirdly will enjoy it more because they are sharing with me - talk about easily pleased)

My FAK is specifically geared for use on dogs as well as me and contains some veterinary meds.

Unfortunaely mine expect food to be provided. However I used to have a lurcher. They should almost be part of your emergency equipment - as long as you like eating rabbit.

With my pack along my family do not need firearms! They would kill or die to protect us. Least I can do is make preparations for them to leave Dodge with the rest of us.
Posted by: norad45

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/27/05 02:31 PM

I have a 5 month old chocolate lab male. Before I got Fergus, I kept a 3 day supply of canned food in my truck for roadside emergencies, mostly chili. It struck me just how unpleasant 3 days would be in an encloseed space with a dog who has been eating Nalleys extra hot. <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> I bought a small bag of his regular Eukanuba and put it in the truck. I will simply rotate it like I do my own food.

Vince
Posted by: paramedicpete

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/27/05 02:51 PM

With respect to a dust mask for your dog, there ways to jury rig filter material with plastic cones, etc. However, keep in mind one of a dog’s primary ways to cool their bodies is through panting. If the mask would inhibit this vital function, they might become hyperthermic very quickly.

Pete
Posted by: bountyhunter

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/27/05 05:21 PM

JohnN:

Instead of a dog backpack, consider a folding luggage hand cart, one with large diameter wheels.

You can adjust the amount of load bearing weight on her back by positioning the weight of what she carries. The further back on the cart, less weight, the further forward, the more weight. You don't want the weight too far back as it would try to lift her.

If she is injured, it can be used as a dolly to carry her. If you have to lower her by rope, you can lay her on the cart and strap her down, thereby spreading her weight on the cart and putting the lowering connections on the cart instead of her.

For those times you go somewhere without her, you will have a luggage cart.

Good luck!

Bountyhunter
Posted by: dave750gixer

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/27/05 05:32 PM

Dogs went to war with us in WW1 and WW2 in both cases protection was provided for our furry friends with provision of gas masks. Bit extreme for just blocking out dust but I would imagine that it will be easier to source NBC gear or BA sets for dogs than it will be to source dust masks. Probably expensive though.

While discussing this though a dog will need to be acclimatised to wearing a mask. Dont expect the dog to understand that that thing needs to be on its face just because its dusty. Some dogs will happily "wear" their owners spectacles or hats but some will not.

Posted by: dave750gixer

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/27/05 05:43 PM

"Not all the dogs necessarily run off. That is breed and training related."

Too true. With breed being more important than people realise. Herding breeds tend not to run off in general as they are always waiting for instruction from the shepherd. But my Pyries are much more independant and have been bred to wander off and check things out on their own (guarding the flock against bears and wolves) as the shepherd may have been miles away. Its next to impossible to train them not to do this as they have been doing it for a couple of thousand years now. At least if its nothing interesting the boys will come back on their own but my [censored] has no sense of direction and gets lost trying to get back! Needless to say she never gets let off her lead unless in an enclosed area.

I've had other dogs who didnt actually have a lead. They never needed one.
Posted by: Susan

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/27/05 08:36 PM

Raststr, not all dogs will run off, but it tends to depend on breed, training & intelligence of the owner (IF the owner is around), but I've worked with dogs for 40 years, and filtered it down to just a few basics: a) all dogs can get scared, & b) most owners are dumber than their dogs.

A Mal-igator is like my Terv in that they may go exploring, but mostly stick pretty close to their owner. Breeds like Irish Setters, Beagles, etc, well..... make sure they have ID.

John, I think the suggestion about a cart is a good one. My dog weighs 50 lbs, so I couldn't carry her far. I've been looking at those lightweight collapsible baby strollers with the idea of conversion in mind. Aluminum + ripstop nylon on wheels.

For a dust mask (living here between two volcanoes), I was wondering if a whole-head mask might be the way to go, an adulteration of a horse fly-mask that fits loosely over the whole head and attaches to her collar.

If anyone has info on a source of dust-mask fabric in larger pieces, I would appreciate the info; otherwise, it's going to be patch-patch-patch. <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Sue
Posted by: Craig

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/27/05 08:48 PM

Good question. We adopted a dog from our local ASPCA. She's an elderly toy poodle, very small. She has an extra-small safety vest through which a seat belt may be threaded. When we go somewhere for an overnight stay, we take along her things, such as a comforter she enjoys, her heated bed, her fleece blanket, booties to protect her paws from snow and ice and salt, her food (Iambs - the best there is), and her water and food bowls.

-- Craig
Posted by: turbo

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/27/05 10:22 PM

Over the years, you can become fairly proficient at caring for a dog’s typical injuries with common human FAKs. But there are some conditions that require quick response and immediate transportation to a veterinarian hospital. I lost Baron, a German Shepard Dog, to Gastric Dilatation Volvulus, GDV, aka, bloat. Up until that time I had dogs for over thirty years without encountering this problem. I had read about it and took precautions and was very careful on what, how, and when I feed and exercise my dogs, since I had large breeds with deep chests, which are susceptible to this condition. One Sunday after his supper, he barked in his special manner that let me know that something was wrong. He was standing motionless and with his stomach distended and hard. I knew he was in pain. My neighbor, who was also my veterinarian’s assistant, arranged for an emergency surgery at a veterinarian hospital. However being the weekend, it took a number of hours for the surgeon to arrive. Even though the surgery was preformed it was to late and within two days Baron had to be put down.

This was a tremendous loss to my wife and I and to the hospital, veterans home, and senior care facilities that Baron was certified to visit and was a part of the his routine. My other GSD was also heart broken without her constant companion and life long playmate.

Since that time I have researched and consulted with a number of veterinarians as to what I could have done differently. The consensus being that GDV is a nasty condition that can’t always be prevented or cured. But one thing I did learn is that once GDV is diagnosed or suspected, immediate doses of Simethicone, in the form of Gas X, or similar, to relieve gas pressure and to keep the intestines from twisting prior to emergency surgery is very successful.

I now carry a specialized K9 FAK for my dogs at all times. I would hate to in the outback without medication to enable me to get one of my dogs to a veterinarian or to see them in pain
Posted by: X-ray Dave

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/27/05 10:52 PM

We have a Pet (cat) FAK. Mostly human type stuff. We added a squeeze bottle of eye wash. spare collar, leash , self adhearing wrap since tape won't work, small ACE wrap and you need some way to muzzle your pet, a bandana works. Plastic comb and tongue depressors for splinting.
A copy of the Red Cross Pet FAK book fits in the case. A space blanket would be a good idea too.

Dave
Posted by: Susan

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 04:38 AM

Dave, why not ask your vet for one of those spoon-type aluminum splints? It's easier to avoid pressure damage with them, since they're already formed to fit a paw.

And the self-adhering wrap makes a pretty good muzzle as well as a bandage, although you would probably have to cut it down (lengthwise).

Also for cats, a sturdy pillowcase makes a really good emergency pet carrier, esp when there is debris like ash (fire or volcano type). Tie it with a shoelace. And a figure-8 type harness is better than a collar, if snugly fastened.

Sue (ex-vet tech)
Posted by: JohnN

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 07:30 AM

Quote:
The other thing to take is a collapsable water bowl


Being an urban dog person, I always need to have plastic storage bags on me to pick up after my dog. You can use these to improvise a bowl if needed. Orignally tho, I did carry a water bowl as you described in my pack. However, I've switched to a small titanium bowl as detailed in this post . I use it to protect my dust masks from getting crushed and then also have the benefit of having a light, sturdy and rigid bowl for Sophie and I. In an emergency situation I don't mind sharing.

-john
Posted by: JohnN

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 07:36 AM

Quote:
I bought a small bag of his regular Eukanuba and put it in the truck.


I'm not sure where you live so maybe this isn't a problem where you live, but unless you rotate it very frequently, I'd worry about moisture ruining the food in the truck. You might consider vacuum packing it or getting something waterproof to store it in.

-john
Posted by: JohnN

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 07:52 AM

Quote:
her food (Iambs - the best there is)


Consider checking out some of these:

http://www.canidae.com/
http://www.oldmotherhubbard.com/
http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/
http://www.newmansownorganics.com/pet/home/index.php

-john
Posted by: JohnN

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 08:17 AM

Quote:
But one thing I did learn is that once GDV is diagnosed or suspected, immediate doses of Simethicone, in the form of Gas X, or similar, to relieve gas pressure and to keep the intestines from twisting prior to emergency surgery is very successful.


I'm very sorry to hear this - it must have been horrible. I know it is going to be very hard for me to lose my old dog when it comes time.

This is very interesting about the Gas-X stuff. I'll have to pick up some for my kit.

This brings up a generic point - it probably makes sence to study up on canine first aid. I have a couple of books, but the one I find I like the best is called Field Guide to Dog First Aid: Emergency Care for the Outdoor Dog by Randy Acker, DVM.

He said he intended it to be small enough that you could take it with you. Certainly it is small although books aren't on the top of my list to carry around.

He covers a lot and the sections are concise and to the point. He also provides difficult alternatives where most books just say "see a vet immediately". As you noted, sometimes that doesn't cut it.

As an example, here is what he says about stomach torsion:

"If dog appears to be dying and there is no possibility of getting to the vet, pierce the stomach with a large-bore needle or trocar - or, at the last resort, a knife - to let the gas out. Try to hit the area just behind the ribs and relatively high while the dog is standing up.

WARNING!

Do not attempt the above procedure unless you feel that you have no other option."

I'm glad he had the guts to give us options in this age of litigation. I just hope nobody sues him for his trouble.

Interestingly, none of the three books I have (including Dr. Acker's) mention the Gas-X thing. One indicates you should keep your dog warm with a bottle of water until you get to the vet and the other just says to be careful transporting your dog to the vet.

All have little tidbits of information that is good, but in reality, you want the info from all three to be put together in order to have a more reasonable picture. One notes presure on the diaphram, one indicates shock from the stomach twisting, etc.

-john
Posted by: JohnN

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 08:29 AM


Bountyhunter,

The cart idea is great. I'm not sure I want to carry one with me everywhere :-), but maybe I might be able to work something into my car kit or something.

Matt,

Did you mean backpack or did you really mean harness? I can imagine your dog being miserable if he was running around with cans tied to his harness! :-)

BTW, here is a thread on CPF which has some info about a pretty cool harness.

-john
Posted by: brian

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 03:10 PM

Carrying Gas-X... interesting. What else do you carry specifically for your dog?
Posted by: norad45

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 03:16 PM

Good point about the moisture. I keep all my gear & supplies in the back under the shell. It's stored in two 3' X 1 1/2' X 1' plastic storage chests so it can't get wet. But heat can conceivably be a problem so I generally rotate the canned food and bottled water every autumn. I'll be watching the dogfood pretty closely for the first few months.

Regards, Vince
Posted by: brian

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 05:06 PM

What about humidity?
Posted by: norad45

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 05:12 PM

Winter or summer, it doesn't matter--the air is always bone dry. One of the advantages of living in a high desert.

Vince
Posted by: brian

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 05:31 PM

Ah yes, that's right... I forgot where you're located. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: bountyhunter

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 06:36 PM

JohnN::

The light weight folding luggage carts they make nowadays collapse into such a small package as to be unobtrusive in most environments.

Just stay away from the small-wheeled versions as they are only useful on evenly paved surfaces.

In previous posts, I have stated a preference for external frame backpacks for myself as you could always add an axle, extendable rigid handle, and wheel setup to them if carrying them on your back becomes a problem.

Bountyhunter
Posted by: bountyhunter

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 06:43 PM

How do you get the Gas-X into the dogs stomach?

Is it a liquid, tablet, or powder, and will the dog swallow it willingly?

Bountyhunter
Posted by: brian

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 06:48 PM

I have only seen Gas-X as a tablet. The way I give my dog pills is to shove them down her throat. I've tried mashing them up in food but she is too sharp for that.
Posted by: bountyhunter

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 06:48 PM

Norad45:

In addition to the already mentioned vacumn packing or waterproof packing, you might want to consider CO2 saturation to exclude air before sealing it in the packing of your choice.

Bountyhunter
Posted by: bountyhunter

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 06:51 PM

Brian:

Is there any special method to shoving it down her throat so as to not gag her or shove it into her airpipe?

Bountyhunter
Posted by: brian

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 06:56 PM

Well I guess "shove" isnt really an accurate description. The way the vet taught me to do it, it is more like placing it on the very back of her tongue then holding her mouth closed and chin up for about 5 seconds.
Posted by: bountyhunter

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 06:58 PM

Back when I used to hunt regularly, I would just take my hat off, dust it off, press the top down into a bowl shape, and pour water into that for my dog to drink. Winter or summer, the hat never had enough time to get seriously saturated and I never treated the hat with waterproofing material. I started my dogs this way when they were young and would dump the water when they stopped drinking so that they would learn not to stop until they were full.

Bountyhunter
Posted by: joblot

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 06:59 PM

Excuse my ignorance here, as I don't keep a dog...but why cans of dogfood? Wouldn't a bag of doggy biscuits, vacuum packed with a few dessicant tabs inside be more practical in terms of bulk,weight, longevity and accidental spoiling through contact with moisture.
If its only for a few days..
Posted by: norad45

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 07:02 PM

"I've tried mashing them up in food but she is too sharp for that."

Even peanut butter? She is smarter than I am! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Regards, Vince
Posted by: bountyhunter

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 07:03 PM

Joblot:

Canned dog food is usually moist and requires less additional water for the dog than dry dog food.

Bountyhunter
Posted by: norad45

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 07:11 PM

The cans I keep in my truck are for me. (Chili, beef stew, etc.) I have also started keeping an 8# bag of Eukanuba dry kibble in the back of my truck. It is covered by a shell and is inside of a plastic container. Because of the climate here (extremely dry) I expect no problems with storing it this way, but I will watch it carefully at first--due to the heat more than anything else--and rotate it regularly.

I have been meaning to get a vacuum packer for other reasons, but you and Bountyhunter are correct-once I get one I will probably seal up the kibble as well as lots of other things.

Regards, Vince

Posted by: X-ray Dave

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 08:19 PM

Thanks, Susan. The pillow case is a great idea. I was able to fit one of the Aluminum splints in by folding it into a squared off "U" shape to fit the pouch.

Dave
Posted by: Susan

Re: A question to those who have a dog - 01/28/05 08:32 PM

The pillowcase idea as an evacuation container came from a woman in Aust, running ahead of a huge firestorm. She put each of her 6 cats in its own case, then put them & some stuff in her car.... and the car wouldn't start. She tied 4 of the pillowcases together in pairs, & the last two with a short length of rope. She hung the pair with the rope around her neck, and the other pairs over her shoulders and headed for the main road. A man in a pickup stopped and got her out of danger. All she saved was her cats. She said the car deserved what it got.

Pretty inventive under stressful conditions, I thought.

Sue
Posted by: bountyhunter

Re: A dog question.- Don't blame the car. - 01/28/05 11:27 PM

Susan:

A car can not take care of itself, it depends on its owner and/or user. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

If she had a few less cats, she might have had the time to take care of her car. Cars actually require less care than cats, and in an emergency are much more valuable.

Bountyhunter
Posted by: frenchy

Re: A dog question.- Don't blame the car. - 01/29/05 08:54 AM

Bounty, do you mean you would "kill the engine" and eat parts of the car ??? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: Raspy

Re: A dog question.- Don't blame the car. - 01/29/05 08:56 AM

One problem I can see with putting something like a pillow case ove the dogs head and attaching it to the collar is that it would cover the eyes. Then you would have to carry the dog. That is why I suggested the muzzle as a base for the mask.

Speaking of collars I would recommend rather than the around the neck collar go with the kind that includes a chest strap. If you have any pet oon a leash and it gets away the leash can get hung up. If they have all four on the ground there is time. But ic they get hung up going over something there is little time before air runs out. The chest strap would help support the weight rather than just the neck.
Posted by: JohnN

Re: A dog question.- Don't blame the car. - 01/29/05 09:14 AM


I was assuming she meant something like the Evacu8 hood that you can see through. I have no idea if the hood is big enough for a large dog tho.

-john
Posted by: bountyhunter

Re: A dog question.- Don't blame the car. - 01/29/05 04:13 PM

Frenchy:

You have got to lay off that summer wine and drink a little more coffee. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Actually, that lady "yahoo" should quit looking to cats for solace and company and take better care of the car since it can haul her around when necessary.

If she had 1 cat and spent the time and money on keeping her car running, it would have worked when she had to suddenly evacuate her home because of the fire and her 1 cat would be with her. If the woman had fallen and hurt herself, she would have 6 helpless cats tied in bags with no way to run from the approaching fire storm.

When people that lonely are too dumb to see their own mistakes and say stupid things like "the car got what it deserved", I tend to understand dedicated mechanics feeling justified in padding the repair bills.

Bountyhunter
Posted by: JohnN

Re: A dog question.- Don't blame the car. - 01/29/05 05:05 PM


Disclaimer: I don't know anything more about the incident than what I read in Susan's post.

I don't see what one has to do with the other. The issue is her car didn't start. I would suspect as you have suggested it wasn't in the best repair but I don't know that for sure. One can keep their car in decent repair and have pets.

I think this is a fairly general issue where people just don't consider the need to be prepared. My guess is that she never considered the car a priority and that it might play an importaint role in her survival. If she is in fire country, having a plan to leave quickly seems like it would be a good idea. Having a plan, BOB and transportation seem prudent. Even a bike as a backup plan might have made a significant difference. All things considered, it sounds like she was very lucky. But I doubt it was because she had cats! :-)

-john
Posted by: frenchy

Re: A dog question.- Don't blame the car. - 01/29/05 05:49 PM

well... I dunno ....
Sometimes huge bills don't mean good repair. Maybe I would have tied the greedy mechanic to the car and let them both burn to ashes ...... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

OTOH, there is more "meat" on a well nourished mechanic than on a cat, however well fed....

So I guess, in your view, a mechanic might indeed be more usefull in dire emergency .. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
And with a grilled mechanic, you normally have no risk of tularemia, which is another advantage...
You got me convinced, Bounty...
When my cat dies, I will have a mechanic instead....


P.S. : that's just a joke ; I don't want mechanics to think I really hate them....
Posted by: Susan

Re: A dog question.- Don't blame the car. - 01/29/05 06:15 PM

Well-maintaned vehicles can fail you when you need them most, too. Car computer things are usually working or not working, and they decide which with no notice.

Some people just blame cats for everything. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

For the dog, I was thinking of some kind of clear material so she could see, but dust mask material elsewhere.

Sue
Posted by: bountyhunter

Re: A dog question.- Don't blame the car. - 01/29/05 09:26 PM

Frenchy:

Which character did you play in "Silence of the Lambs"? <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Bountyhunter
Posted by: bountyhunter

Re: A dog question.- Don't blame the car. - 01/29/05 09:37 PM

JohnN:

I was generalizing and exaggerating cat owners who seem to love their pets because they consider them part of their family.

I am a dog person and although I do not expect favors to be repaid by every person or animal I help, I have a distinct and strong dislike for the aloof attitude cats have. Dogs are close to their owners and seem to involve themselves in the owners lives as well as really spoil us with the obvious and recurring attention and devotion they give us for what little we do for them.

The thing about this post that surprises me is that no one has expounded on the fact that by hurting herself or not being able to get out of the way of the firestorm, she doomed her beloved pets by the way she packed them. I am willing to bet she doesn't carry a knife to cut her cats loose, and even if she did, the firestorm could have caught her and her cats before she had a chance to free them.

Bountyhunter
Posted by: frenchy

Re: A dog question.- Don't blame the car. - 01/29/05 10:45 PM

the frying pan ..... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: Susan

Re: A dog question.- Don't blame the car. - 01/30/05 01:47 AM

Bountyhunter:

1. I don't know how far away the firestorm was when she left home -- it could be that she didn't wait to be TOLD to leave, like a lot of the people here (Oakland, CA, specificially).

2. Even if she had a knife with her, she wouldn't be able to use it if she was unconscious; if she was conscious, she could untie the shoelaces.

3. It's okay if you don't like cats -- there are lots of people that only like creatures that fawn over them. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

4. I just thought it was a clever way to carry 6 cats all at once.

Sue
Posted by: Avatar

Re: A dog question.- Don't blame the car. - 01/30/05 04:54 PM

There is one more dimension I'd like to add to this discussion.

It is not all that unusual to hear of neighborhoods having enforced evacuations because. of a train derailing somewhere and dangerous chemicals being spilled from the freight cars. Sometimes the people are not allowed back into the area for several days or more.

That is only one example of something that can happen to keep you away from your home and your imprisoned pets. I recently saw a letter to the editor reminding people to leave much larger rations of water for your pets when you leave for work in the morning. You just never know when some unexpected circumstance might keep you away for days at a time.

I don't want to even think about how many pets were stranded in the apartment buildings closer to the Twin Towers in NYC on 9/11. Sill, I'm wondering if building managers had had lists of the number of pets and locations within the buildings...perhaps some authorities could have gone in to release the pets before they died from lack of water. (probably not).
<img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: Susan

Re: A dog question.- Don't blame the car. - 01/30/05 07:24 PM

I cringed at the thought of all the animals left in apartments on 9-11. And it did make me rethink what I do before I leave home, esp if I'm going some distance.

I have a gallon water bowl for the dog, and leave both toilets clean & their seats up. Since I KNOW the cats get on the counters when I'm not home, I have a bowl in the sink for them (Yes, Bounty, I have cats -- who'd have thought?). This bowl sits on a rack and I leave the water dripping into it.

Although I have every intention of taking all my animals with me if I had to evacuate, and had the chance.

You plan the best you can, then get blindsided. Sigh.

Sue
Posted by: Paul D.

Re: A dog question.- Don't blame the car. - 01/30/05 10:13 PM

Bountyhunter,

You are showing your ignorance in this thread. People that say cats are aloof obviously don't know crap about cats, or apparently most animals. I can get almost any pet cat to come to me within a few seconds. They are only "aloof" if you try to read cats like dogs. Cats aren't dogs. Dogs aren't horses. Horses aren't camels. All animals have their own body language and have to be approached differently.

Your comments on the woman and her car are equally thoughtless. You don't know a thing about said "yahoo" but you seem to think you have her figured out. I'm sure you have heard the old saw about what happens when one assumes. I take good care of my vehicles, but that doesn't mean that they don't crap out at the most inopportune moments. Too many parts, too many things that can go wrong with no notice.

I usually enjoy your comments on here, but stick with what you know.
Posted by: bountyhunter

Re: A dog question.- Don't blame the car. - 01/31/05 03:04 AM

Paul D:

About cats aloofness, I speak from the ones I had when I was younger.

About figuring the lady out, you are right, I do not know her and again I speak only from the knowledge of people I have known who have owned many same species animals (For the record, except for having babies, more than 2 for me is many.). All the people I know who have many animals relate to animals more than humans, but that does not mean that everyone who has many animals is lonely or afraid of human interaction. What and who you know and how they interact, I have not and can not experience.

Regarding cars, only twice in my life have cars given me a problem without warnings, once a 1962 Chevy Impala with a 327 engine had a capacitor short out (The little one in the distributor next to the points.), and a 1992 Chevy Beretta that had the ABS brakes give out on me suddenly. People that are willing to try and figure out animals don't seem to concern themselves about figuring out cars. Cars are easier.

I didn't have dogs so that I could become an "Animal Whisperer" and claim knowledge of their psyches beyond the scope of the needs I obtained the dog for. I have had a Brittainy Spaniel, and German Shorthair for hunting and 2 German Shepards at different times for security. Except for the early months of their lives where they lived in the house to acclimate them to the family, they all lived in solidly built insulated dog houses outside, spring, summer, fall, and winter. My dog owning friends think I am cruel and cold for that, and I think they are cold and cruel for owning dogs not built for Wisconsin weather and keeping those that are, in their homes.

Now as to sticking to what I know: Wheather you agree with me or not, wheather you love, hate, or don't care about me personally does not matter as I post what I believe and in doing so get people to respond according to what they believe and even if we never agree, we both become exposed to different ideas and we both learn something even if we dispute it.

Now finally, last but not least, thank you for the compliment.

Bountyhunter
Posted by: dave750gixer

Re: A dog question.- Don't blame the car. - 01/31/05 01:12 PM

Quote:
Dogs aren't horses


But weirdly enough my ex-wife treated the rhino's (she was a zookeeper) just like dogs and they behaved perfectly. Much to the disgust of the keepers who actually worked full time in that section. Its really funny watching someone treat a baby rhino like a puppy, but you have to be careful not to get your arm crushed against the wall when scratching behind its ears if it leans against you.

The actual point of this post <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> was about giving dogs tablets. It depends on the dogs. I have an agreement with my lot. They get "people food" with a tablet in it as a treat. As long as they swallow the tablet thay get the treat. If they start spitting it out then its force tablet down and no treat time. They soon learn. The looks on peoples faces when I give tablets to the dogs are great. I was having to give one of them 7 tablets at a time and 3 of them were huge pink things (big dogs=more body weight=higher dose=more tablets). I can actually get a piece of food (corned beef or a sausage works well) and put the tablet into it in front of the dog, and he will still take it. As an experiment I tried just placing the tablet on top of the treat and giving him the morsal in one go. He still takes the tablet. Success <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. It did fail at one point since I was giving 7 tablets twice a day (antibiotics due to a very bady broken humerous) and ran out of treats. In desperation I tried giving him a bit of bread with the tablet in it. He spat it out. I couldnt complain really as it was me that had broken the agreement. After all bread isnt much of a treat. So I spread some butter on it and the tablets got swallowed ok.

For anyone that has to use the force down the throat method. I agree with the previous advcice of put on back of tongue and hold muzzle shut. However it work better if you tickle under the muzzle while holding it closed.
Posted by: paramedicpete

Re: A dog question.- Don't blame the car. - 01/31/05 06:41 PM

There are a number of on-line FEMA publications on animals in disaster situations. Everything from pets to large animals, worth a look for possible ideas on how to prepare for and respond to disasters.

http://www.fema.gov/preparedness/animals_and_disasters.shtm

Pete
Posted by: Avatar

Re: A dog question.- Don't blame the car. - 01/31/05 08:06 PM

Thank you for the FEMA site. I can see that I have fairly good planning in place.

One thing that I have not done yet is to get the implanted ID chips for my three cats. I had decided to do that when I had several bulletins from the ASPCA during the recent Hurricanes in Florida.

The volunteers who tried to round up all the stray pets where overwhelmed by the numbers of animals (esp. cats) that could not be easily identified.

This is what often happens. We see the emergency situations that arise and vow to make our own plans from those lessons learned. Then we put it all in the back of our minds and forget about it till the next "wake-up call."