First time trying to make fire from Spark-Lite

I just bought Doug's Pocket Survival Pak. I fell in love with the idea of survival preparedness and learning ultra basic survival skills. Buying Doug's kit is my first move towards learning some new skills.

Right now I'm practising with all the contents in my backyard & frontyard at night. It generally takes about 20-50+ attempts to get something to light with the Spark-Lite. I'm trying not to use much of the Tinder-Quik (I've used a little) I'm more relying on cotton balls and cotton paper towels. It's with those I'm having a lot of trouble with. The paper towels aren't the Bounty or generic type towles, their really thick and feel almost cloth like. You can pull them a part and see the cotton fibers.

You guys that are used to making starting fires, how long does it usually take for you? Does it take 1-2 sparks or does it take a few minutes worth of sparks? After making 6 little micro fires (size of my fist) my thumb is really sore from using the Spark-Lite. lol.

Just a thought. Make sure the cotton balls are actually 100% cotton. There are some synthetic "cotton" balls out there that probably won't light very well.


Robert

When you use a cotton ball you need to get just one blast of sparks into it. I must that I usually need between 1 and 5 attempts to light that ball. When I have to use paper towels I rip them to have a maximum of small fibres. Then I roll it up gently to increase the probabilty of getting a spark on them. I usually use a ferrocerium rod to light those as they tend to require a massive shower of hot sparks.

Right, make sure the cotton balls are 100% cotton, and try putting some vasoline on it and kind of kneading the cotton to spread it around. You don't need much, it shouldn't get messy.

You can store it like this in a micro ziplock or other container so it doesn't get the rest of your items messy if you're worried about it. Then, when you're ready to light a fire, fluff it up. Pull the fibers apart so it forms a larger ball that's barely holding itself together. Then give her a spark <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Based on my experience as long as you're using real 100% cotton balls (or something really close to 100%) you should be able to almost just stand there 5 feet away with the SparkLite in your hand and just look at them funny and they should burst in to flames! <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Check your balls and make sure they are the real thing (no comments bounty hunter:)). Also, fluff them up and get some loose fiber hanging off and aim the spark for those rather than the compressed center of the ball. With paper towels/toilet paper/paper napkins I find you have to shred a small portion (like a corner) once again for the purpose of getting some loose fibers hanging out for you to aim your sparks at. Now with 100% cotton cloth I have found it is significantly more difficult. You gotta really get a fuzz ball going. You basically have to rub or scrape the cloth to the point that you have a little ball of what looks a lot like dryer lint then light that up with a few sparks and it will ignite the rest of the cloth. In general it takes me about 1-5 flicks to light a fire with any of the above materials. I don't mean to make it seem easy though because it's not. The trick is (for me anyway) spending a lot of time preparing the tinder rather than spending a lot of time flicking away my SparkLite flint. As a side note, I have had more success to date with natural tinder than cotton t-shirt type cloth. Lots of natural tinders work real well. Almost any plant with a cotton-type fibrous inner or outer bark seems to work well. Just make sure it's dry, and once again, fluff it, shred it, do whatever to get as many loose fibers hanging off of it as possible. It's kinda hard for me to explain in words. If you're still having problem this weekend I'll make up some tinder from the above materials and take a couple pics to actually show you what I mean. It might not be till sunday though since I'm planning on going camping tonight and tomorrow. Oh and one last thing, if you get frustrated and need some quick success to boost your confidence grab a couple of small alcohol swabs like the type that commonly come in first aid kits. You can set them on fire just by looking at them funny too! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I actually keep alcohol swabs in my kits. They are a great dual use item. Great for cleaning wounds and for using as tinder and they take up no room at all. Good luck, don't give up. Once you get the hang of it then it?s all down hill from there. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks guys. I had a feeling it was mostly the tinder. I'm out of cotton balls, I'll need to take a trip to the 99 cent store to pick up some more. I'll make sure they say 100% though. I doubt I'll be able to start a fire by sparking it from 5 feet lol, the Spark-Lite doesn't spit out that many sparks. 5 centimeters I can believe. Also do any of you have tips for starting fire in the rain?

It's funny, every time I see an area with trees (park, schools, etc) I imagin myself having to look for tinder. Only problem is around here its mostly very tall pine trees. You'd have to climb them in order to reach even the lowest branches.

Work a small dab of vaseline into a cotton ball, "fluff" it up to about 3-4 times its "normal" size, and spark it with the Spark-Lite, making sure to hold it close enough (almost touching). If it doesn't take off on the second or third try, you're doing something wrong. Get back with your success/failure, and specifically what you're doing, and feel free to ask for more coaching, I'm sure we can have you lighting up like an old hand in no time <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

Troy

Alright well I found some 100% cotton Q-Tips. They are the kind with extra cotton fluff made for babies. Has about 3x the amount of cotton then regular Q-Tips. I did everything except the vasaline. I fluffed it up really good and I just couldn't get it to catch fire. Evenutally I got ticked off and just got my butain lighter and light it up. It cought fire before the flame even touches it and burned nicely. I then pulled out the Tinder Quik and cut a pieace off the size of an M&M; fluffed it up really good and I couldn't get it to light either.

This time I got really upset and I got out my webcam and video recorded my second attempt - which was a semi-success. If you guys can, watch the video (only 1.6MB). Maybe you guys can notice something that I didn't. My goal is to be able to light the tinder within 5 tries.

Click here to download video

filesize: 1.6MB; filetype: WMA (*requires windows media player codec).

The video helped! Here, in order, are what I think I saw:

1. Sparks too far away - re-watch where it ignites - your sparks were right in it only on that attempt.

2. Not fluffed up enough

3. Need more sparks - try pressing harder against the wheel. Try thumb instead of finger.

I'll dig one of mine out and try to re-create the situation, but honestly, I never have any problems with this. I'll edit this after I try it out and tell you what my experience is.

Tom

I looked at your video (nice job!!!). It looks to me like your Spark-Lite is being held too far from the cotton. Let me play a bit ...

(Fresh from the kitchen playing with my Spark-Lite and lighting little bits of cotton balls ... left hand smelling like smoke, and my wife thinking I'm nuts - as usual)

Using non-doped cotton balls (no Vaseline) I was able to light the cotton by the second or third spark.

The first try I held the orange handle with my left hand and spun the wheel with my right pointer finger. It lit on the second turn.

The second try I just used my right hand as you would a Bic lighter. This one lit on the third try, but I was so close that a fiber caught in the Spark-Lite and I had to flick a burning cotton ball off the Spark-Lite.

Moral of the story: get the working end of the Spark-Lite as close to the cotton as possible.

When making Valeline-cotton balls, make sure you don't put too much goop on the ball AND don't work it in too hard. The idea is to leave the ball with a dry, easily lightable center.

Ken K.

After watching the video, the first suggestion I'd make is, get closer to the cotton. It's OK to touch it, if the hair on the back of your finger gets singed... you're doing it right. Next, until you get the hang of it, use a bigger piece of tinder, use a whole cotton-ball. Fluff it up into a bowl-shaped, birds-nest looking mass, stick the Spark-Lite right down in it, and presto... you should get fire. Once you're comfortable with this, you can use smaller bits of tinder, but just starting out, don't make it any harder than it has to be. And last... do yourself a favor, and work in a small bit of Vaseline, you'll be amazed at the difference it makes, not only in the ease of lighting, but also in the intensity and duration of the burn.

Troy

Nice, a fellow south-paw. It's definitly easier when I use my index finger as opposed to my thumb. The Spark-Lite is just so damn so. lol.

On the video the sparks looks bigger then what they really are. But I see what you mean about the distance. Right now I just got a ruler and mesured how far the sparks travel. 90% of the time they don't go more then 2 centimeters, max is 5 centimeters. Now i'm trying to to stay within 1 centimeter of the cotton. I'm also using much more cotton fluffed up about the size of an egg. I'm still not able to get quick lights.

It's kinda of hard to tell by just watching that little video clip, but is it possible that the flint in my Spark-Lite is messed up, to small, or misalinged in some way preventing me from getting good hot sparks? Or does the amount of sparks I'm getting look normal. Because the cotton really isn't even getting chared no matter how close I get.

Also does the vasaline just make the cotton water proof and burn slower, or does it actually help it ignite easier? If I can't get this nailed down pat within a week I think I'll need to look into buying the BlastMatch. But first I think I need to rest my fingers, boy are they hurting. lol.

Anyway, thanks a lot guys. Been a big help.

I've used the SL to ignite toilet paper. It took about 5 or 6 strikes, very close, IN THE SAME LOCATION. (Just in case you're one of those people who like to move the match around and try different spots.) After 3 or 4 strokes, the paper turned brown; another 1 or 2 strokes after that ignited it.

The TP had been left out overnight, but underneath an army surplus parachute shelter, so it wasn't wet but may have been slightly damp.

I just tried it with a dry cotton ball (no vaseline). I made no attempt to fluff the cotton ball, I just left it as is, held the SL about 1 cm away (my first attempt resulted in the cotton being caught by the rotating wheel and dragged inside but it didn't seem to cause any damage.) Three quick flicks and the cotton ball began burning.

For a FeCe rod, a Blastmatch or Swedish Firesteel, or a Mag-Flint type lighter I would probably recommend fluffing up the cotton ball, because those items release a large shower of sparks. But for the SL, it seems to work better if you have a specific area that you can concentrate the sparks on. MHO only, of course, and bear in mind that I have far less experience than most of the others who responded. Still, what works, works.

I agree, I think he was holding it too far away. He also looked hesitant, like he was afraid of getting burned. (I've seen that with younger cadets a lot.) And he wasn't holding the SL steady, so the sparks weren't being concentrated in a single spot.

I have never tried vaseline impregnated cotton balls, but to a certain extent I disagree with using them when you're starting out. If you're lost and you don't have any vaseline impregnated cotton balls, but you do have a bottle of aspirin in your first aid kit that has cotton batting in it, it's better to know how to use that. Having the vaseline-soaked ones in an emergency is good; using them for practice because they're easier to light is not. (I probably misinterpreted your post, though.)

The Vaseline doesn't make it light easier - it actually will make it harder to light. The Vaseline makes it burn longer. The idea is to have non-coated cotton catch the spark easily, and then have the Vaseline-coated cotton burn longer.

First off, Happy Holloween! Hope you guys have fun today. I'll be heading out to the local desert to check out some volcanos. I think I'll be taking along a good lighter with PSK till I get the hand of using my spark-lite. lol.

So anyway, I made a new video clip. Click to download (1.1MB).

In this video clip I'm using the cotton from three Q-Tips. I used the base of a fan to hold the cotton and help keep my hand steady and the Spark-Lite in place. This time I was really trying to get as close as possible without getting the cotton fibers stuck in the wheel.

Still had a hard time. Am I still doing the same things wrong: to far away and cotton not fluffed up enough? I'm not worried about getting burned, I just have a hard time keeping the spark-lite in place because of it's small size.

After reading your troubles I thought I'd better practice just in casen as I have never tried using my sparklite. I took a cotton ball (checked the label first 100% cotton) and fluffed it up well. For comparison I used a windmill lighter no problems. Lit easily. I then fluffed up a second ball. On first try holding close nothing. On the second spark attempt I was right inside the fluffed up cotton so much so that my spark attempt dragged some cotton fibres into the spark lite. I was however rewarded with a nice ball of flame that I had to rapidly pull my hand away from.

My advice is to make sure the cotton is very well fluffed up and get right in amongst it. Dont worry you wont actually burn your hand just feel some warmth <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Okay I think this has been ccvered real well but let me say again. Fluff fluff lfuff .... then fluff some more. I'm gonna put together some pics and perhaps my own video this afternoon. After all, if I dont then my wife will put me to work doing something less fun since I came home early from camping. <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I just took a brand new spark light out of the package and grabbed a few cotton balls and q-tips. Had no problem getting any of them lit within 2 tries. What I did is hold the cotten in one hand, held the spark lite in the other and putting the fluffed up cotten close to the bottom of the wheel (where the sparks come out) gave it a long stroke with my thumb. Not a short push like you do to light a bic, but a long pull using the whole pad of my thumb. Worked great.

Vindicated:

For a better grip on the Spark Lighter, drill out a wooden dowel, cut up a popsicle stick and glue the pieces into the drilled hole so that the Spark Lighter fits snugly and doesn't twist when using it.

You can make the hole in the dowel as deep as you want so long as it does not impair your ability to thumb the wheel. You can cut out a groove in the front of the dowel to allow a full flow of sparks and you can also jam a small piece of the cotton in the groove while the rest of the cotton hangs out of the groove. In this way, you will be sparking the same area consistantly, and still be able to pull the lit cotton out into your waiting tinder pile.

Good luck!

Bountyhunter

Well as the saying goes, "a picture is worth a thousand words" so hopefully that means a video is worth at least two thousand. At any rate here are some video clips of me lighting various tinders this afternoon. I tried to keep the file sizes as small as possible while still getting high enough resolution for you to zoom in and get a decent look as what going on. Sorry for the shakey camera. I was holding the camera in one hand and flicking the sparklite with the other. Not an easy task. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

SparkLite Tinder
Cotton Ball
Q-Tip
Toilet Paper
Paper Towel
T-Shirt

All-in-all I really like the Spark Lite. I prefer a knife and a ferrocerium rod but not if I only have one hand. I have practices using a knife and ferro rod one-handed. It can be done but not easily. That a topic for another thread though. Now if only the Spark Lite were made of aircraft aluminum instead of plastic. Ah that would be great! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Brian - er, did you forget to upload the files? Links don't work and the files don't show up in your directory...

Tom

Sorry, Geocities and I had a little disagreement. Apparently they do take that TOS stuff seriously <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> so I had to whip up a quick webserver on a machine here at home to host the files temporarily until I find a permanant home for them. The links should work now.

Sounds like you've got a good idea for a new product there, while you're at it, put a threaded cap on it so the flint can be replaced, and let me know when they're in production, if they're not TOO expensive, you've already got your first customer <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

Troy

Great demonstrations!

Guess I better head out to the patent office. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks

Thanks, your videos helped a lot. I was looking really closely at the sparks in your sparkslitetinder.wmv & qtip.wmv video and in slow motion playback I noticed your able to get a much bigger and stronger spark. I'm thinking it must be my SparkLite's flint. Either it got chipped and now it's to small or it was just a bad batch. I'll just have to order a new one, at least they're pretty cheap.

I know fluffing couldn't really be the problem because I been fluffing all the ends with a needle. The only time I can get it to light is when I'm doing rapid sparking.

On a more positive and side note. In my last post I said I was going to the desert to check out some volcanos. I did and sure enough my Doug Ritter Pocket Survival Pak saved the day. My college classmates were climbing into some caves and one of my female friends slipped on a rock and broke her finger and took some nasty cuts on her hands. I was able to use the pencil and duct tape to make a splint and stop the bleeding with some cotton clothes I had put in as extra flint. Wasn't a survival situation but it helped none the less. What really got me mad though was no one else had any medical supplies at all - professor included! The only First Aid supplies was on the bus which was located miles away. I will say this experence helped a great deal. I was so focused on fire making that I almost removed some of the material in the pack thinking I didn't need them. If it wasn't for last night I might have never realised until it was to late, just how important simple things like duct tape can be.

Now I'm just wondering where can I find replacment rolls of duct tape as small as the one supplied in Ritter's kit.

I make my own by rolling it around a blunted toothpick or even just rolling it around itself. I find that this way I can actually get a little more duct tape in the same amount of space. Just be sure you get good duct tape like what Doug puts in his kit rather than the crappy consumer grade stuff that is often found in grocery stores and drug stores. Any hardware store or home depot type store will have the good stuff.

On a side note, that's really funny that your pencil saved the day because there has been much debate over the usfulness of such a small pencil in past threads on this board. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Also, glad the videos helped!!!! I was worried that they would be too blurry cause it was hard to hold the camera still while working the SparkLite in the other hand. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Dont worry about needing a new SparkLite. Look on the bright side. When you buy a replacement you'll get 8 more pieces of tinder to play with without having to use up the 4 or so pieces that you keep in your kit for emergencies. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I "roll my own" duct tape for my kits. I take the cardboard tube from a pants hanger you get from the dry cleaning place. I start the duct tape on the tube and then unroll about 3' of duct tape but leave it attached to the original roll of tape. I hold the hanger tube about shoulder height and roll the 3' on to the hanger tube. I peel off an additional 3' from the still attached store bought roll and feed onto my hanger tube. I do this until I have 12' of duct tape on my tube. I found this a way to know the appoximate amount of tape I am carrying. 12' of duct tape around a hanger tube is about 1.25" in diameter.

Then I use a saw and cut the hanger tube close to the sides of my new mini roll of duct tape. You can store a golf pencil in the hanger tube. A sparklite would also fit instead. For some reason I tend to make several kits at a time so I ususally make several mini rolls at one time and use up most of a hanger tube.

Sorry about the Spark-LIte - that is unusual. Send us your address and we will replace it as well as the pencil and duct tape. Check out our medical kits at adventuremedical kits.com.

Thanks, Frank

Marketing Director
Adventure Medical KIts

Vindicated:

Are you saying spark lighter flints can not be replaced in the field?

Is the spark lighter a sealed unit?

Bountyhunter

Sounds like more great customer service from AMK. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Robert

No kidding man. Thanks a lot Frank. I'm really happy with the kit overall and I wouldn't think twice about recomending it to anyone. Offering to replace those items, what can I say other then wow. I really didn't expect that. It's really nice (and rare) to see companies stand behind their products like that.

Re: BountyHunter - No I was saying something is wrong with my Spark-Lite. I'm just assuming it's the flint. Looking at the videos comparing the sparks, tinder, and technique, I was able to rule out user error on my part. I don't know anything about changing the flint. I was just going to buy a new one until Frank graceously offered to replace mine. Pretty awsome customer service huh?

That is correct.

Sure does... what is that... three times now in the past couple months that they have amazed us with genuine, old-fashioned, excellent customer service? I get asked all the time about FAKs, PSKs, and a lot of other wilderness equipment and I am constantly recommending AMK these days and telling what I have seen of their commitment to good product and customer service. I think that especially when it comes to things like medical supplies, it is important to deal with a company you have the utmost confidence in.

Just a little update. Today I recieved a package from Adventure Medical Kits with a new Spark-Lite, duct tape roll, and pencil. The new spark-lite works like a charm. Finnally I'm able to light cotton balls, q-tips, paper towels, and other misc things within 1-2 strikes everytime.

Woohoo! Glad to hear it! Those guys at AMK appear to be top notch folks!

Hmmm - that's interesting. I usually take about a half dozen strikes to get a piece of toilet paper to catch fire, and I've never gotten a drop of Purell Hand-sanitizer to burn (and I've ignited that easily with a FC rod).

I have three of the darned things, but I've only ever used one of them. (I bought two of Doug's autographed kits, and keep one in the glove compartment - never opened it; and the other one is still in the gift wrap because the guy I was going to give it to last Christmas moved back east.)

Maybe I'll try the one in the car to see if it's any different from the one I've been practising with.

For what it's worth, the toilet paper I use in the video is charmen which is pretty thick, soft stuff and it's not too hard to get some loose fibers hanging off of it when you tear off a small piece of a corner like I did in the video. I know the video isn't accessible right now. My computer at home is turned off because I'm upgrading the CPU, RAM and video card. I really need to find a permanant location to host those files.

Seen it at MEC yesterday.

Thanks to all who protested for it. The price was not posted however hmmm should of asked <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />.

Flip

Make 'char-cloth' out of the teeshirts before using them.
To make it:
Cut cloth up into small one to two inch squares.
Put them in a sealed metal container(like an Altods' tin.
Punch a SMALL hole in the container.
Put it on a fire OUTSIDE(unless you have a REALLY GOOD vent hood!)
When black smoke STOPS coming out of hole, take it out of fire.
Let cool COMPLETELY(if you do not, when you open the tin, the char-cloth can burst into flame!)
Carefully remove cloth from tin.
Store in airtight(well moisture tight any way) container.
When you need fire, take a piece out, put it in among your tinder(toothpick sized twigs, surrounded by larger twigs, etc.) and just look at it wrong with a spark, and you will have fire!

The Blast match is great....Just be VERY careful with it!
I was showing someone how it worked and it ignited a piece of copy paper I used to protect the plate I was using it against!
Nearly set his apartment on fire <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
You could easily start a forest fire with the sparks that thing puts out. Some of the sparks last two or three seconds!

Cutting them up into small squares is a waste of time - the stuff is so brittle you can easily pull it apart afterward. Just make sure it's pure cotton; if there's any synthetic material in them it won't be nearly as effective, if it works at all.

I could be wrong, but I believe you can actually set fire to the smoke as it comes out the hole; when there isn't enough smoke left to burn, the char cloth is done. (I could be wrong; I remember making charcoal and coke this way as a science experiment when I was a kid, using one of those old Tate & Lyle syrup tins. Probably can't get them anymore but they were perfect - had a large round lid in the middle that you pried off with a knife, similar to opening a can of paint.) I used an electric stove in the kitchen, btw. Just put the burner on low heat. I suppose you might be able to get away with a Mason jar, even, but I would definitely do that out of doors in case the glass cracked and the contents caught fire. (Now THAT would be fun trying to explain to the insurance company <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> )

I have an old pair of blue jeans that the crotch is ripped out of; I think I will turn the pant legs into some sort of carry sacks or padding for something and turn the rest of the pants into char cloth.

Maybe I shouldn't ask.... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Small squares of cotton... Hmmmm. I wonder what gun-cleaning patches are made out of? Bear

I'm lazy - that's what I've been making char cloth from for quite some time. Cotton flannel gun cleaning patches - I buy them in large enough bags... they work great.

Cotton squares: Check out a department store cosmetics area. I was at Target the other day with my daughters and while in the cosmetics aisle, I came across a package of 100% cotton cosmetic squares (actually slightly rectangular). They are very compress with 5 thicken ovals to each sheet. I picked up a package of 25 for less than $1.00. I have not checkout their tinder/spark catching abilities, but see no reason once teased apart, that they would not work. Pete

We made a Coke Can alcohol stove at work last Friday that we used to make Char Cloth with...We tried both 70% and 90% rubbing alcohol(we had no isopropal stove alcohol at the time...) We cut up an old cotton t-shirt and wrapped the pieces in aluminum foil and stabbed a hole in the foil with my knife. Got a nice big flame blowing out of the cut!

Char Cloth is strange stuff...
made a small spark and it caught instantly...
The 1.5 inch squares we made urned very slowly with almost no heat, if left to themselves...
BUT....
When you blew on one of them, they produced so much heat that you had to move your hands and face away!

Um... where did you find this job and are you hiring? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I've never made char cloth. Sounds like I need to add it to my list of activities to introduce at our Scout meetings/campouts. I did find a PDF file with simple instructions.

How to Make Char Cloth Tutorial

What do you folks store you char cloth in for personal carry?

Tinderboxes, of course. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

If you want something a little lighter, lots of folks use candy tins (with the paint burned off) to both make and store char cloth. Use one without the hole to store it to keep it dryer.

Char cloth works very well, but some folks consider it almost cheating. You can make good char from some fungus, or from punk wood as well. The problem with them is that they only support the technique of striking sparks into the char, not the holding style you use with char cloth to light a pipe... which is also a lot faster, once you get the hang of it.

Char cloth isn't cheating if you use a hand drill to build the fire that you use to make the char cloth. LOL <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi, Willie!

I carry mine in the tin. I use a nice round tin that 177 pellets came in - which required the addition of a pinhole. I layer all the cloth flat before charring and just peel off a piece from the top of the stack when I need one. I suppose I should drop the tin into a ziplock, but it's been fine in a zippered pouch kept inside whichever pack I'm using. Altoids tins work great as-is - the hinge holes are quite sufficient to vent off the gasses. Need a good hot fire the first time to burn the paint off Altoids and other painted tins, and then a quick dry scrub after cooling with a green scrubbie (3M pad) to remove the loose paint ash residue.

I suggest practice with a bird's nest made by untwisting sisal/jute/manila 3/8" line - down to individual fibers. A piece about 6" - 8" long is handy until you get the hang of it. Make the nest, put char cloth in the nest, spark, fold, blow like crazy (I hold above my head and blow on it from below - I miss most of the smoke that way). Bursts into flame like magic, but it may require some practice until you get the hang of it. Scouts are VERY impressed with themselves when they learn that. Then teach them how to use in situ natural materials - usually takes more prep. Don't let them decide they must carry hunks of rope - I always start off by chanting "imagine this is dried grass... imagine this is dried grass... imagine this is dried grass..." I consider cotton balls phase I, char and rope phase II, char and natural tinder phase III... etc. - at least, with the Scouts. Char works great with flint and steel, btw.

Have fun with this and practice a lot before you show the scouts.

Regards,

Tom

Willie,

By coincidence, I just made my first batch of charcloth last week. I used an old 35mm film container for storage.

I suppose the round Altoids Citrus Sours can would work as well with a pin hole. Is it truly a pin hole? And do you let the gasses catch fire? Some accounts say that's a no-no while others let it burn. About how long does it take in an Altoids tin?

I like the step up approach as it'll build their skill and confidence at the same time.

From: Pete_Kenney

Pete,

I’m a student again and do not have time to get into a possible running dialogue on the ETS forum. Thus, because of your background and recent posting on cotton squares I’m dropping you a PM which you can run with if you like. I too picked up some cotton squares this past weekend--they work fine with Vaseline. Cody Lundin mentions using the Vaseline for chapped skin/lips, as a lubricant, etc.

For PSK type items, I’m trying to use the SPEC.-OPS.™ T.H.E. TACTICAL CHECKBOOK WALLET™ ( http://www.actiongear.com/cgi-bin/tame.e...2Fresults%2Etam ). The only normal item in the checkbook are the checks. Thus, whenever possible, I want credit card sized items—e.g., a floss card (with needles, fish hooks, T-pins, etc. taped to the back of it). Otherwise, I look for flat items such as 6” x 6” Aloksaks ( http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/aloksak_6x6.html ) folded once, Stretch Island 100% fruit leather, or flat individually wrapped Slim Jim jerkies.

At a craft store I found some 2” x 3” zip lock bags. Such will hold the cotton cosmetic pads (actually 1 and 1/2 pads). These bags seemed strong; but, the Zippit brand bags “seem” stronger. I called a local fishing mail-order house this morning and they have this size Zippit bags ( http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/Content.aspx?src=home.htm ).

In the spirit of multifunctional equipment, why not use other petroleum items instead of Vaseline? Vick’s Vapo-Rub could be used as a nasal inhaler and fires up well. Does Vick’s have any analgesic properties? Alternately, a pad could be impregnated with an oil based insecticide or sun screen. I’m not sure about the fumes any of these products might give off.

Beyond the cotton pads: I picked up some liquid bandage in a squeeze dropper vial (48 drops) for $5. I do not like Liquid Bandage as well as (I think) New Skin. LB forms a thinner layer--although that may be an advantage. So I put some New Skin in a small 40 drop dispenser found at http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/microdrop_dropper_bottle.html.

At any rate even using New Skin, if the bleeding has not stopped, the blood will bubble up under the “bandage”. So I went looking for some type of styptic pencil. I found Flents Styptic Powder at Sally Beauty Supply, a national chain ( http://www.sallybeauty.com/shop/product.asp?pf%5Fid=897000&dept%5Fid=1950 ). This appears to have the same off-yellow color as the blood stopper that comes in larger plastic bags. But, who wants to rip open such a bag to get a small amount for EDC? I read a review on this once (cannot find again) and I think blood stopper was developed by a guy with a shaving wound. Both a dropper dispenser of New Skin and some Flents (poured into even a small vial) could be put in the change purse part of the checkbook. Other bandages, etc. would in a small zipper bag in a credit card holder of the checkbook.

As you have some medical background there is one other item to toss out: People often talk of putting small hard candies in a PSK for energy and comfort. Why not make these multifunctional also? For years, people have used ginger ale and soda crackers to help nausea. In the bulk food area of a local health food store I found Gin-Gin Ginger candies ( http://www.gingerpeople.com/order_sweets.html ). On the wrappers of each candy, it says that they can be use to reduce motion sickness. An alternate, multiuse “candy” might be Halls Defense Multi-Blend Supplement Drops, Harvest Cherry ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det...1&s=hpc ). These contain Vitamin C, Echinacea, and Zinc. Zinc of course helps the immune system. My druggist tried to explain Echinacea to me and said it should be taken when one thinks they are coming down with a cold.

Sorry to talk your ear off.

Later,

Pete

Willie,

The sours tins work fine, and a small hole is all you need - a 4dwt or 6dwt nail makes a large enough hole.

It doesn't matter if you burn the gasses or not, but it's very stinky to not burn them, LoL! It has zero effect on the finished product either way. When we make charcoal for blacksmithing, we port all the gasses into the flames under the retort to add their fuel value to the process, but that's insignificant for making small amounts of chared cloth - you can't tell the difference. Anway, you don't really have much choice when doing this in an open campfire or in a fireplace - they are going to ignite.

It takes mere moments to char this small amount of cloth - just jump and and make some. Heck - it depends on how how and large your heat source is. Might take 30 seconds on a big bed of hardwood coals or 5 minutes in the cool flames of a poorly burning fire of damp wood. If you cool off the tin and find brown char inside, close it back up and toss it back in - no harm done. We're talking deep, deep black here. As long as you don't melt the tin (it has happened with bellows assist), the char won't be harmed by staying in longer than it needs to be.

Don't do it indoors unless in a fireplace with a draft going - your wife will justifiably get upset with you otherwise.

Have fun!

Tom

I made some charcloth today in a tin very similar to a sours tin. Poked a very tiny hole in the top w/ a finishing nail and tossed it in the fireplace and forgot about it. About and hour or so later I pulled it out and let it cool and had some very nice charcloth made from 100% cotton cloth squares. The type typically used for swabbing firearms' barrels. I never watched or waited for smoke or paid attention to whether or not it caught fire or if it ever even smoked at all and I got some very nice charcloth. I guess the point here is that there is no need to try to make an exact science out of it. It's really not that tuff to make.

Exactly. Cook until done. If not done, cook some more.

I've had to re-cook a batch or two. No big deal, and for some technques, char cloth that's not completely charred actually works better. If you're holding it with your thumb against the flint, you can blow it into flame by itself without other tinder.

As for the "pinhole", I'd advise making it at least finishing-nail size, and no larger than an eighth of an inch or so. The only caution I'm aware of is that you get a fair amount of pressure buildup in these things. With a tightly-fitting tin like a candy tin, the bottom (which is sitting on the coals) often heats and expands faster than the top, sealing it even tighter until it cools. I've gotten pretty impressive gas jets coming out of some of these (especially if it catches fire), and a couple of times I've enlarged the hole because I was afraid the thing might "pop" while it was cooking. That could get interesting- I envision small squares of flaming cotton scattered randomly over the surrounding area...

I was told, way back when, to blow the flame out if the gas jet caught fire. I don't know if it really makes any difference or not- hard to see how it could, unless the flame got inside the tin somehow- but I still do it.

Excellent point!

State job...

Yeah, "pinhole" was a poor choice of words - thought I corrected that later by saying 4dwt - 6dwt nail...

Haven't tried carmel colored cloth. The fully chared stuff sure loves a spark, though.

I have found that I also have trouble if I try to light the tinder by holding the sparlite like a lighter and flicking it with my thumb. When I hold the sparklite with my my thumb and middle and other fingers and strike with my index finger I get much better results. It usually only takes me a couple strikes to get the tinder lit this way.

As a sidenote, I prefer to use the dry outer bark of a grape vine as my fine material bewteen the tinder any whatever fuel I am working with. I make a nest of it and get it burning from the center out. It will become a smoldering hot ball of fire and light damn near everything I have messed with so far. This stuff also works great with charcloth.
I still mess with real flint and steel from time to time, just to make sure I can.

When I make charcloth, I generally let it go until the jet of gas catches fire and burns out on its own, then remove the tin from the fire and let it cool. It works for me. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I also use the method of holding the charcloth over the flint and then striking against it with the striker. Even the tiniest spark will catch on good charcloth with this method. When you are first starting out it might be good to add and extra peice of charcloth to your nest of fibers just to give you more fire than you need. It will speed your success. Once you get some practice in with this you won't need to do this anymore.