planes and survival

Hi!
>I am pondering on survival and in conection to that on
>survival kits for quite a while. I saw a movie where
>an aeroplane crash results of a person(young girl)
>being stranded in the amazon jungle. So my
>consideration is as follows: knife is a primary tool
>in a survival situation, yet no airline allows
>carriage of pointed intems on board unless its in your
>louge that you give of- so it is not close at hand,
>and in case of an accident will be scattered miles
>around. I think that also no arline would allow a
>rescue tool onboard(a knife with no point) or a tool
>for cutting the safety belt(such as the item made by
>benchmade). A small folding saw, a file and even
>fishooks to my opinion would not be allowed. The
>little scalpel blades included in a survival kit
>are out of order to. So what you can take as an on
>plane survival kit is only string, (wire mybe not
>permited to), and a lighter or matches. Please tell me
>your thoughts on this problem.
>Thanks
>Matej
p.s. if there is already a thread on the topic please let me know

Check out this thread. Otherwise do a search, this is a fairly common topic.


Robert

PS Edited to correct link.

Shopping at CTD lately Rob? <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Yes. Why do you ask? <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


Robert

Check that link. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Charter a plane instead of going commercial, then work it out with the pilot? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Brian. I'm such an idiot. I posted that link to another forum for somebody looking for a 3/16" punch. I guess it was still in my clipboard when I tried to respond to this thread earlier. When I tried to copy the link to the right thread I must have hit the wrong key combo and the CTD link stayed in my clipboard. I previewed my message, but I guess I didn't check the link. <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

The link is fixed now.


Robert

Post 9/11 hysteria turned commerical airline travel into at best an indignity and at it's worst a false belief it is any safer. This includes terrorist action and the chance accident. Cordage is even subject to confiscation. The rational action is to A. Take every precaution to survive a crash ; sitting over the wing at an emergency exit, woolen clothing, avoiding alcohol, and B. Learning skills to fabricate tools from native materials; lithic,bone or bamboo knives, friction firemaking etc. We too easily forget being " stranded in the Amazon" is in reality no worse than a South American Indian finding him/herself standing on 5th Avenue in New York. People live quite nicely in both places in spite of different conditions.

I'd love to charter a plane, but I'm a mere wage slave. Can barely afford air travel as it is. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

In addition to what's approved in my EDC and PSK kits, I carry a metal ball-point pen and a cork-backed, 12-inch metal ruler.

I also carry a coarse, folding DMT sharpening stone and twenty or so feet of paracord. If the paracord becomes contraband, I'll start carrying a roll of electrical tape.

On my keychain is an LED flashlight, a whistle, and a BSA metal match. In a capsule I carry some personal meds cushioned by lots of cotton balls.

I think these give me a good start on the basics.

Bear

Happens to me all the time. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Amen! Of course I think (actually I know) I would feel more sorry for the South American stranded in NYC than the New Yorker stranded in Brazil. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> If I have got to be loney, scared and possibley dieing from one thing or another and get to choose where it happens, NYC is at the bottom of the list. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I like the ruler and DMT sharpener... if you survive the wreck, you can make yourself a pretty functional knife, and the metal pen doubles as a push point, great ideas, thanks <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Troy

I'd bring a pad of graph paper, with some engineering drawings on the top sheet to make it more plausible to have a ruler with you.

Now that's smart. I like that. I have to think in terms of looking plausible. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'd be inclined to tell them I am a nun (In drag dressed as a man.) and schoolteacher and that they better not touch my ruler if they know what's good for them. Even if the inspector isn't Catholic, they will listen.

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, but you probably look intimidating. I'm tall, thin, and geeky. Anything but intimidating. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

At 5-foot-11-inches and 140 pounds, if I turn sideways I vanish. Also, I'm very nearsighted and am 43 now, so my glasses have bifocals. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Good thing is, I look very non-threatening. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Would be nice to look intimidating just once, however. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Craig:

I get the impression that you have never heard about school teaching nuns.

Size don't matter!

Looks don't matter!

Wheather they smile, speak in a soft voice, or say "please" and "thank you" don't matter!

If she is a nun and a school teacher, and she controls a ruler, your butt is grass, and she is the lawnmower!

I have heard this many times from my Catholic friends who attended Catholic schools.

Bountyhunter

I have heard about it. Never experienced it.

bountyhunter:

Sounds like you're describing a terrorrist.

Im just gonna say this.... you just cant always be completely prepared these days when it comes to having the right equipment for the potential threat at hand. Planes and federal buildings both come to mind although there are plenty of other places. If I'm on a commercial airliner and it crashes in the ocean or out in the boonies and I actually live through the crash without any life-threatening injuries but I am completely naked and with out an ounce of useful gear, I'm the happiest man on earth! The best way to prepare for these situations IMO is not with gear but rather by practicing with your main survival tool... the one attached to your shoulders! Learn primitive skills, learn to improvise, learn to go without food (disclaimer: after talking to your doctor of course <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> to make sure it's safe). In a nutshell, learn to adapt. Learning to use your brain will never hurt you, even when you have tons of gear, it can only help.

Well, I'm sure I can find at least a few uses for my torso...but I'm not sure it's really good as a "main survival tool"... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm on a 7:45AM EST flight home. This is the first time I have ever flown without any sharps of any kind. The client I'm flying with hates checked baggage, so I thought I'd give it a try...bleh. I hate being far away from home without so much as a Victorinox Classic to trim my nails. Of course, I could buy one here and give it away before I leave, but I'm going to be on a long term project, and that could get expensive.

I'm thinking about getting a safe deposit box on site to stash a few things that I can get when I'm in town.

Anyway, just because you can't carry a knife on board, that's no reason not to carry the things you *can* bring. Here's what's with me today that could possibly be useful...

1. Petzl Tikka Plus headlamp
2. Mini Mag AA
3. Brunton Eclipse compass
4. Serengeti sunglasses
5. Breitling Avenger Seawolf wristwatch (so big it sets off the metal detectors)
6. SAS survival flashcards
7. A mini Bic or two.
8. Purell hand sanitizer
9. Diphenhydramine HCl, Acetaminophen (Paracetamol), small first aid kit
10. Warm wooly clothing
11. Water bottle
12. probably a few other things that might be useful

so, as you can see, the lack of a knife is not the end of the world...after all, I can always bring a can of soda or soup and crush it for a sharp edge in the wild, or some such...a positive attitude and a bit of knowledge goes a long way.

Unfortunately, with the way or society is going, I don't see the new regulations getting repealed, ever.

Oh, and my hip has been acting up lately, so I think i'm going to have to start carrying a cane... that hickory one that Cold Steel has looks nice. I'd bring my City Stick, but I don't want to have to deal with the steel head at check-in time.

I agree with Brian. Being able to adapt is very important. Improvision is good too.
You don't want to be at a loss when you don't have your gadgets with you.
Maybe we could all learn a few lessons from the master of improvision, Macgyver.

Pick up a 1911... works every time <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

No, but the next best thing... been there done that, he's not exagerating by much! <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Do it New York style; drool, adapt a faraway look in your eye, go slack jawed while swiping at and trying to catch invisible things and talking to the invisible buddy next to you.

The world over that type of behavior is more intimidating than even a Mdl. 1911 A1 in US Caliber .45 auto, because the other guy may have an MP6 under his coat.

Bountyhunter
<img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

In todays world, some of those school teaching nuns might be considered child abusers, but in my day ( I'm 58 years old.) Catholic school educated individuals scored much higher intellectually and seemed to always get better paying jobs.

I believe in properly applied corporal punishment when it is done for the purpose of teaching an important point. In our great-grandfathers and grandfathers days, you only had to back up and touch the woodburner once before you learned the difference between a warm butt and a branded butt.

Bountyhunter

MP6?????

All right, all right, an MP7A1!

Bountyhunter

"I saw a movie where an aeroplane crash results of a person(young girl) being stranded in the amazon jungle."

That wasn't just a movie, it was based on the real thing. I believe 5 people survived the crash (scattered around -- she never saw any of them), but this 17-yr-old girl is the only one who survived.

She had no knife, she was dressed for her confirmation in a white dress & white shoes. Her mother died in the crash. I faintly remember that she found some cigarettes and a squashed birthday cake, both of which she took with her. She ate the cake, & used the tobacco as insect repellent.

Her father was a scientist who worked in the jungle, & he told her if she ever got lost & there was any kind of a stream nearby, to follow it downhill*, which she did. After about 2 wks of hiking, she came across a hunter/woodcutter's cabin & went inside to rest. The occupants returned & took her by boat to the local mission. She also had an injured knee & had insect larvae growing under her skin.

Why did she survive & the others didn't? Authorities said afterwards it was because she had a plan, and used her head. The other 4 people decided to wait to be rescued, despite the fact that they were under heavy jungle canopy, where they couldn't be seen from the air.

As has been said, it's what's in your head more than what you've got on your person.

But I'll bet she wished she had a knife.

*This advice worked for her, but the technique can also lead you right into a swamp. Luck has a lot to do with survival, too.

Sue

Susan:

You don't have to be in the Amazon to lose it in a swamp.

Many years ago I was pheasant hunting with my Britiany spaniel (Toby.) at an abandon Air Force base in Wisconsin that had some swamp land on it.

Toby went into the swamp with all the tall grass and rushes before I could stop him, and promptly lost his bearings. After trying to call him out, I went into the swamp area myself. I was younger and dumber with no compass, did not take any bearings as I went in worried about my dog. I heard him tramping through the brush with some occasional whining as I called out to him. One time he cut directly in front of me about ten feet away and despite my loud frantic yells, he just kept going without even seeing me. We finally crossed pathes and I grabbed him by the collar and suddenly realized I had no idea how to get out.

I tried to follow the path of deflected and crushed grasses, but some of them were made by Toby in his madness, and some were made by me trying to find him. I started going into softer deeper water and had to keep turning around to stay in shallower water which was not consistent as I went from shallow to deeper to shallow until finally I went to shallower and shallower water and finally out of the tall grass on the side opposite where I had gone in. We circumvented the swamp to get back to the car, where I finally let go of his collar after tying him to the car with a leash which I should have had with me.

We rested, and both drank some water while I cleaned burrs out of his coat and looked at that beautiful swamp where I could have been lost permanently.

As much as I love dogs in general and the ones I have had in particular, I will never again go into an unknown area without a plan, a refrence point, and a compass.

Bountyhunter