Some people are getting the word, it seems

A friend of mine who knows I'm interested in survival sent me this:
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sacbee.com -- AP State Wire News -- Searchers look for hikers stranded by Sierra storm that killed two

http://www.sacbee.com/state_wire/story/11157633p-12073775c.html

I'm sending this from the Sacramento Bee newspaper site. What will be interesting in this story will be to see what has happened to two specific groups mentioned in the article: The group from Lafayette City, CA., and the members of the Bargetto Family. It is said that both groups had experienced members who were well equipped.

There is still no word on either group as far as I know.
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However, according to MSNBC, all except the two Japanese climbers who died have been found alive and/or rescued.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6298932

It's significant that three of the missing parties were described by relatives as experienced outdoorsmen who were well equipped for the unexpected conditions.

Sadly, not everyone was so well-prepared - a Ranger said the Japanese climbers who died " had been ill-prepared for the weather".

Wow that was strange I just posted on this. We must of been hearing stuff at the same time. I read the link and I guess there were several groups in that area who got caught in the storm. Wow, must of been a terrible storm.

From the San Jose Mercury ( the Murky). The 4 ate 5 peanuts each for breakfast, a little oatmeal for lunch and a spoon of peanutbutter for dinner. This in reagrds to the Bargetto party of 4 that were found. A total of 4 different partys were found and only the 2 Japanese climbers died. The media reports have been so poor, commenting on what was done "right" and how "prepared" some of these people were. In the end they were all just lucky that the weather cleared enough for the copters to locate them. The article in today's Mercury covers all those that were lost and can be found at www.mercurynews.com "Conceding to cooling temperatures, Dominic packed a sweatshirt along with his shorts". Dominic is already planning another hike this weekend. He stated " It's a good experience and I know to bring more things next time". And, yes there is another storm due this weekend.

Worst storm for California in October for decades they say.

>>The 4 ate 5 peanuts each for breakfast, a little oatmeal for
>> lunch and a spoon of peanutbutter for dinner. This in
>>reagrds to the Bargetto party of 4 that were found.

I don't consider that indicative of a lack of preparedness, myself. they could probably have gone without any food at all for several weeks.

>>In the end they were all just lucky that the weather cleared
>>enough for the copters to locate them.

Maybe, but I think one of the parties spent three nights in a tent with a fire going and none of them required hospitalization, so I think there was more than luck involved there. My guess is they probably could have walked to safety after the storm passed if they'd wanted to; in fact, one of the groups of climbers on El Capitan refused rescue.

Just because SAR goes looking for you doesn't mean you're lost; and just because they find you doesn't mean you needed to be rescued.

Agreed. I think these people deserve a little credit. There was more than luck involved based on what I've read so far.

Agreed. Very true.

Were the people that refused rescue even out beyond what was in their "trip plan"? I ask because I know for a fact that when I leave on a trip I tell my wife if she hasn't heard from me by a certain time/day then to call the calvalry and believe me she wouldn't think of calling them before that time/day reguardless of weather because there would be a 99.9% chance that we would just be wasting SAR resources that could be used for someone that really needs them. I stay out in all kinds of bad weather... intentionally.... and she is well aware of this. Now ofcourse if I don't report in when I say I will then that's another story. That's when she would "blow the rescue whistle". Hasn't happened yet though (knocking on wood). <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I must have missed the part about having a fire going, that didn't get reported here. However, shorts , a seatshirt and not much food is really poor planning for the Sierra mountains in October.

Being a SAR team leader myself:

" My guess is they probably could have walked to safety after the storm passed if they'd wanted to"

When a storm hits like this and people are overdue you assume the worst and go looking. Guessing is not an option.

" in fact, one of the groups of climbers on El Capitan refused rescue."

Nice to have that option huh.

"Just because SAR goes looking for you doesn't mean you're lost;"

No, but SAR doesn't know this until they find you. SAR don't go looking for people for fun, these groups met the lost criteria.

"and just because they find you doesn't mean you needed to be rescued. "

No, but nice to have that option because they went to look for you. An explanation of why you were overdue would be nice for SAR and friends and family.

Flip

Well, I may have just assumed that if they spent three days in a blizzard with hardly any food and didn't require medical treatment, that they probably had some sort of fire going.

I'll have to take your word for it about the shorts and sweatshirt, as I don't have a membership on the news site you posted. Also, I don't know which missing party that referred to.

Since two climbers died, apparently because they weren't properly equipped for blizzard conditions, it's obvious that not everyone was prepared. And it may be that not everyone in each party was survival-smart, maybe just one or two in each group. But the ones that were prepared and survived the incident with little or no lasting effects deserve a pat on the back. <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I wasn't suggesting that SAR shouldn't have gone looking for them, or that they weren't overdue. Quite the contrary - I was responding to another poster who indicated that they were "lucky" SAR found them when they did, when it at least some instances, there's every indication that if they hadn't been found, it would have been not much more than an inconvenience.

The mere fact that SAR had to go looking for them was not evidence that they were ill-prepared or careless. You're absolutely right, though, that SAR had no way of knowing whether they were safe or not, and had an obligation to respond.

Sorry for not making myself clear. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My friend sent me a link to a news article with a bit more information. It looks like you were right, at least about the Bargetto family outing. There's no mention of them being able to build a fire, one of their tents started to leak, and they had two pairs of wool socks among the four of them.

On the other hand, they did a lot of things right once the storm hit. They set up camp instead of trying to hike out, they didn't panic, they were able to squeeze four people into the remaining tent, and they took turns clearing the snow away from the tent so it wouldn't collapse.

So on the whole, I guess I'd give them a C, maybe a C+, but certainly not an A. <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, staying in one place was a good thing, and they did use something orange as a signal for aircraft. They used what they had, and came out OK. The Sierras can be un-forgiving in summer, let alone October. Glad the storm didn't last longer.