A nice sleeping bag

Been shopping for a sleeping bag that my fiance can put in his car in case he breaks down in a blizzard (Minnesota style).

My question: Just because a brand name says that the sleeping bag is comfy at -20 degrees F, is synthetic insulation material REALLY capable of that? This isn't a Wiggy's bag, mind you, though I'd love to be able to afford it. So when I look at other bags, which claim to be very good but are only a fraction of the price of a Wiggy, it seems a little dubious. How much money should I expect to spend for quality?

Any brand names that you guys trust? I've been looking for sales and at outlets and will pounce as soon as I know what to get.

Thanks!

Christina,

I'm sure you'll get a lot of excellent suggestions here, but I'll take a crack at it.

The effectiveness of insulation of the type in sleeping bags comes almost entirely from it's thickness. Synthetic fills are capable of being just as effective as down, and generally are just as effective as down for the same thickness... just not as light, and thus not as effective per ounce.

For carrying in a car, extreme light weight is not as important as for carrying cross-country on foot, and I'm sure there are some excellent deals to be had if you can go, say, a pound heavier. For your use I wouldn't hesitate to consider synthetics. THat's NOT saying that the particular bag you're considering is capable of -20, that's another question, and usually not a simple one.

One consideration, though, is that (unless synthetics have changed quite a bit in recent years) they tend to lose loft when kept packed tightly for long periods. Something to think about, anyway. To some degree, it may depend on the size of your fiance's vehicle.

Christina:

Since this is a sleeping bag for carrying in a car, go for the colder weather capability unless the space required for a warmer bag is an issue. You can always open the bag if it is too warm, but you can do nothing if the weather is colder than expected and you have a thinly insulated sleeping bag.

My personal preference is synthetics because they require less care. If you buy from someone like LL Bean, they give you a lifetime warranty for most of their products so that if the bag loses loft from storage, they will replace it free.

Good luck!

Bountyhunter

Christina:

First, you have identified a potential scenario most people often overlook. You are willing to provide “creature comfort” in an adverse situation.

Unfortunately, it becomes much more complicated than that. Synthetic insulation has most definitely come a long way in the last 20 years, or so. That doesn’t mean a sleeping bag that is rated for -20° F is going to keep you warm at that temperature. The comfort experienced by humans in a given environment can be classified as a subjective assessment, because it is possible to find a considerable variation in responses of different people to the same situation. Sleeping bag ratings are really just a general formula and not every manufacturer uses the same scale. How can you be sure you will get good insulation for what is required. A sleeping bag works best by trapping and holding air around your body, with that in mind simply follow the steps below to determine what you’ll need.

- Sleep style—adjust upward or downward by 5 to 15 degrees depending on whether you "sleep warm" or "sleep cold."
- If you're slow to adjust from a cushy room temperature of 68 degrees to life in the cold outdoors, then correct downward usually 10-15 degrees downward.
- Clothing—you will probably be using the sleeping bag in addition to wearing “normal street” wear and perhaps even a winter coat. After all, you won't be in any minimal night wear.
- Dampness—When you are in a confined space, such as a car, you will perspire and breathe out water vapor, which contributes to a damper environment. Adjust the rating 5-15 degrees down for synthetic, or 10-25 degrees for down.
- Inactive versus Active—You will be in a confined area, your amount of movement is restricted and blood will pool lower overtime. Try to not restrict movement by using a confining bag.
- Consider a bag with a draft tube and draft collar to help keep cold out.
- Don’t forget to cover the head. You’ll be surprised to find out how well this helps.
- Wear gloves if fingers will be exposed.
- Remember surrounding car metal cools with the air. I have seen cars iced up inside in Idaho, Montana and Canada. This will contribute to overall comfort. If possible, try to run the heater once an hour. Make sure the exhaust pipe is unblocked though.
- As mentioned, a sleeping bag in long term storage, or even stored incorrectly, will lose insulating value.

How much money you plan on spending is dependent upon what you can afford. You mentioned you wouldn’t be buying a Wiggy’s, but keep this in mind; will the sleeping bag be used for anything else? If so, then consider “exceeding your budget!” You definitely don’t want a series of unsatisfactory purchases. Coleman, The North Face, Slumberjack and Marmot all make good bags. I hope this helps.

Take care,

Stargazer

"Pay no attention to what the critics say... Remember, a statue has never been set up in honor of a critic!"

If you had two bags side by side with the same amount of insulation (measuring by weight) you would find that the down bag is warmer than the synthetic bag. However, most people use synthetic because down is extremely susceptable to moisture. Even sweat and/or humidity can easily ruin a down bag. I have found that in general, if I add 10 degrees to whatever the manufacturer says that a bag is capable of then I remain quite comfortable in it. Of course I am far from an expert. I'm just a guy that has owned and used a lot of different bags. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> If it is just going to sit in a vehicle then I can't see the point in getting a down bag. IMO down is only worth the hassel if you need to stay extremly lighweight (where litterally every ounce counts) and you need to most warmth per ounce of weight carried. I am actually a bit of a lightweight backpacking nut (total pack weight often under 10LBS) and I still dont use a down bag simply because I cant justify spending the extra money on something so fragile and easily ruined, just to save a couple ounces of weight. My current bag of choice is this Slumberjack Superguide +30 . It's a lightweight bag that stuffs extremely small (I stuff mine to half the size mentioned by the mfr as the "official pack size") and under $100. Granted I live and camp in an area where it rarely gets below freezing for more than a few days per year so a 30 degree bag works well for me all year round.

http://www.countycomm.com/sleepingbag.htm

$40 - can't beat it with a stick. I got 2 of them, they are great.

Martin: Can you describe the bag a little for me? That picture doesn't show much detail about the zipper or hood.

Is the zipper in the front or on the side? How long is it? (I mean is it full-length or only partial?) Does the hood have a drawstring or what?

I am SO wanting to buy some, but have been overspending lately. No more experimental purchases.

Bear


Bear

For example, is there a bag by a major manufacturer that we might theoretically compare it to? wink wink..... <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Synthetics are every bit capable as down to insulate @ 20 degrees. I can keep you warm with snow, steel wool, theater popcorn or 1000 remaindered copies of Rod McKuen 'poetry' books. Obviously though some materials better lend themselves to our task. Insulation ratings are always optimistic. The bag is inside of a tent with the occupant wearing additional clothing. If you've read Jerry's (in) famous newsletters the shortcomings of other insulators are explained. First and foremost many have a relatively short life due to fill breakdown from use, washing or compression, AKA loss of loft or 'going flat.' If you only go camping a few times a year, the unit seems to last years. But if your out there daily the actual lifetime can be mere days . If you can trade this off for an adequate bag solely for emergency car use then cheaper bags will work. Just remember that kept compressed there will loss of insulation. Many materials require considerable time ( and vigorous shaking) to regain even a % of rated loft. This is an emergency bag, and, given the restricted parameters there are numerous units more than adequate. We need your fiance emerging crysalis like from his car after the blizzard passes or rescue comes, not assaulting the polar caps on snowshoes. Just eliminate the scary stuff Wiggy discusses, get the lowest rating you can afford and don't forget what else keeps a body warm; food, liquids, chemical warming packs.

OOOOOOoooo I would love to have a 15 degree colder rating AND shave almost an entire 1lb off my pack weight ... and especially for $40 ... just wish I knew the manufacturer. Northface perhaps? Just a shot in the dark there .... wish I knew for real. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Snugpak. Please notice the dodge in any warranty by stating used bags cannot be returned for health reasons. The SELLER doesn't want to back his product. This dealer is in California. My main surplus retailer,www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com sells used,surplus bags all the time.

A serendipitous followup here. My Wiggy bag has been washed a documented ( I'm trying to wean myself from cellphone games with more meaningless diversions) 81 times. The loft is still perfect, though my zipper just failed with some deformed teeth. I emailed Jerry asking what he requires from me for his lifetime warranty. I'm thinking sales receipt, return shipping, yadda, yadda. Jerry asked me to wash it first <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I picked up a couple of the CountyComm black sleeping bags, wasn't too impressed.

No way on earth are you going to be comfortable at 15 degrees in this bag alone. Well, not for a prolonged period of time anyways. Maybe if layered with the green bag as a system. Maybe.

The loft is minimal, no zipper tube, I probably would rate it as a 45 degree bag.

I was wary about the no return policy because there alot of places that sell used military surplus bags like Chris said.

Checked out the Countycomm bags. The site says that the bags are brand new. Hopefully that means completely brand new and not just new to them... Would it seem impolite to ask?

The black CC bag was reviewed by someone on CPF. Conclusion was that it's an imitation Snugpack, not the real thing, but probably an ok value at $40.

Also, sleeping bag temperature ratings even from good brands are marketing fantasy. Don't believe them for one second. Get one rated for several levels colder than the coldest temperature you'll actually use it in.

I have a TNF Chrysalis that I use as a summer bag and it's great for that. But it's rated for 20 degrees F, which is ridiculous. It's chilly at 60 F.

Campmor has a ton of good deals on sleeping bags. They carry the common hiker brands, and offer good service. I'd check them out - look at the "Hot Deals" section, especially.

Sam

>>I have a TNF Chrysalis that I use as a summer bag and it's
>>great for that. But it's rated for 20 degrees F, which is
>>ridiculous. It's chilly at 60 F.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but there are other variables to take into consideration:

1. It depends on personal acclimatisation. Someone from Yellowknife or Anchorage might be comfortable sleeping naked at 60F.

2. It depends on the size of the sleeping bag. A larger SB will require more body heat to warm the interior. Ideally, you should get one to fit you, not just assume "one size fits all".

3. The ratings may be based on what will keep you alive, not on what will keep you comfortable. I think that would be at least possible to measure (they can measure the heat loss from the sleeping bag and compare it to the average person's metabolic requirements, for example.)

Having said that, any type of injury or illness will increase your susceptibility to cold , so a sleeping bag that will normally keep you toasty warm at -20 may not be adequate if you've been in a car accident and are suffering from mild shock. Err on the side of caution and supplement the sleeping bag with a couple of survival candles and a survival manual in the glove compartment.

If I were you, I would avoid The North Face like the plague. I work at a backpacking store and we don't even care any equipment by them now because they are owned by Vanity Fair now. Not to mention that most of their clothing is "poser wear" for people who want to LOOK like they actually do climbing or backpacking. Oh yeah, and they also got in trouble a few years back for fudging the degree ratings on their sleeping bags. I just sold off the last of my North Face gear on Ebay.
The bag I now trust is a Western Mountaineering Ultralite. It is a down bag (weight is 1 lb., 9 oz./25 degree rating) that has a Pertex shell that does a great job at repelling water. Western Mountaineering makes several other bags, all of them goose down, at lower degree ratings. I highly recommend them because the only thing they make are sleeping bags. Not tents, clothing, backpacks, etc., etc.

I guess I'll be sticking with my Slumberjack Superguide then. I'm real happy with it. Just wish it was lighter weight. Ofcourse then I wish all of my gear was lighter weight regardless of what it weighs now. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Has anyone tried this?


WOOPS missed the earlier post... <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />