Question on knives...!!!!

Hi guys,
I have been reading your very helpfull posts for some time and until now I didn't had a chace to direct a question to you.
I got a question related to Cold Steel knives, a friend of mine had one some time ago, and it looked fine, but no serious work was putted on it. Now surfing the web I found their page and what they say about their product almost sound too good to be true. So my question is: those knives worth the money? or it is just marketing?
Thanks + Regards
Alejandro
PS: I almost forgot it I'm looking for a good knive, not that kind of movie / tactical thing.

I have a variety of Cold Steel knives. They aren't "WUNDERKNIVES" but they are good knives (esp. for the price).
gino <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Personally I think if youre really going to beat up your knives (like I do) then it is all about the steel. So far my favorite is the relatively new S30V. Benchmade, Buck and a few others have a couple of S30V blades on the market. I go for RC 58+ on almost all my knives these days regardless of the material. Of course fixed blades take a beating better than folders and full tangs take beating betting than other fixed blades.

I bought my first fixed blade knife just before my last camping trip, a Buck Vanguard. When learning how to split wood by batoning, it snapped right off at the base of the tang after about 10 minutes. I was quite surprised at how narrow the tang was! I've since decided that a survival knife has to have more of a tang- not sure what it's called, but I'd call it a "full handle" tang, where the tang is the full outline of the handle, and the handle is basically two pieces on either side.

Mentioning the 'K' word in this forum is like putting two wire coat hangers or rabbits together. Before we hit another 100+ post count let me make a few simple observations. The cutlery industry today has a mind boggling selection of steels, treatments, handle materials, sheaths and patterns. With few exceptions they all do a decent job of what should be a very simple operation. A knife does little else than sever various fibers; cellulose in wood, cells in animals and all to often pieces of paper in our wallets. Theres a lot of effort in severing that last item. It's called marketing. Cold Steel markets some decent knives with rather indecent hype. Nothing wrong with that, even nurserymen have to hard sell steer manure sometimes. Your best served by A. making a list of what you want in a knife. B. what you don't. C. what you can afford to spend. It's always fun to invest in a knife with all the dream materials, dimensions and features we envision as 'perfect.' It's a lot more fun to have a knife that does the job with money left over to actually go where that job is waiting <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Goatrider:

I hope you sent the knife back for a free replacement. Unless you were batoning with a metal hammer, I think they should honor the quality their name implies.

Bountyhunter

I didn't want a free replacement, I don't have any confidence in the design after that. Was it bad heat treating or a bad design? Or both? Fortunately, it was only a few days since I bought it, the store let me return it.

I don't know much about metalurgy (does anybody?), but there was a strip of blue metal in the tang, about 1/2 inch from the base. Kind of the color you get when you hold something to the bench grinder a little too long. The metal towards the blade was brighter, towards the pommel was greyer. It would seem to me they tried to differentially heat treat it, with the pommel softer and tougher, and the blade harder and more brittle. But the crossover point should have been on the blade, not on the tang. But there was also an obvious stress point at the base of the tang, and that's where it broke. So, I think it broke because of both bad heat treating and a bad design.

It's all right, I am an engineer. Well, actually, a software engineer, but this is my lunch hour.

Cold Steel makes some darned good knives, but you might want to try going to bladeforums.com or knifeforums.com and taking a look at their maufacturers forums and seeing what each one of them has to say. They are biased, but there is a wealth of info there.

hope it helps,

Garrett

If I may add to Chris’ response, I think you ought to add a D) and E) as well.

D) Fit to your hand. I bought a Becker Knife & Tool Companion because the big handles fit my hand well. I can hold that thing all day without my hands tiring too much. That same knife that fit my hand so well gathers dust in my closet because it is too bulky to comfortably carry on my leg or hip. There are other knives (read bigger) that attach well to a pack, but I’d still want a smaller knife on my person. That doesn’t negate the importance of how the knife fits your hand.

E) Method of carry. It is of no use if it isn’t on your body. How will you carry it; around your neck, on your hip, your leg, lashed to a pack. That Becker fit my hand well, but as stated above, it’s gathering dust because I don’t like how it carry’s.

There are hundreds of knife makers that sell fine products (CS, included). If I were you I’d focus on: what it will be cutting, how it fits your hand, how much you can spend (and it need not be a month’s rent), and how you intend to carry it. Pretty much in that order. Then worry about steel, brand, and if you want a satin, epoxy, or desert camo finish.

Biscuits

Knives are one of those loaded questions people are very passionate about. At the end of the day a rusty tuna can lid can cut cord and skin a rabbit etc...

That being said, the way I see it is "generally" the more you pay for a knife the more you get "to a point" and that point is at the $100 range anything after that the price goes up quickly and the quality lags behind the price the higher it gets.

As said the steels and options are mind bending and one needs to do their homework to get what suites them.

I look for utility, size, durabiltity, sharpening ease, edge holding, comfort and manufacturer warranty. Its about trade offs and what you are willing to trust your life with potentially.

CS make decent knives for a good price in my experience with 2 models.

Flip

Correct on there being " a price point" where you get into diminishing returns. Yeah, it's somewhere around $100-$150. That said - if you looking for a fixed blade knife, $150 buys a LOT of knife - up to and including some very nice custom blades! I'm always surprised how inexpensive custom fixed blade knifes are - and then you can get EXACTLY what you want

One of my favorite knives only cost me $40 and I would glady choose it over many knives (Cold Steel included) costing 2-3 times as much. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> This of course this is just my opinion although this particular model is also spoken well of by Doug in his fixed (fixed blade) "Sharps" section on the website if I remember correctly... so you dont just have to take my word for it. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I know exactly what you mean, that was the only thing that tempted me about the Campanion, was the handle.

You might want to take a look at the Ontario TAK (now available in D2). Fit and finish is a little crude (not sloppy, just very "utilitarian"), but it's a very solid knife, and the handle is a great shape, very comfortable and long enough to put real force on the blade all the way out to the point. Overall, what with the full, untapered tang, it's a little heavy, but it's lighter than the Campanion, and it rides very flat for a knife it's size. I'm not crazy about the sheath, but I like the knife's feel a lot more than most.

Plus, it's pretty much a bargain, even in the more expensive D2.

I bought the TAK D2 to replace the Buck I broke. That full untapered tang? That's exactly what I like about it- no chance that's going to break the same way! It is quite a bit more hefty than I expected though. It's made of 3/16 inch stock.

I also bought the Benchmade Gamer- it has a thin handle and a thin sheath, so it takes up less room in my PSK. The shape isn't exactly what I like, with a slightly clipped point, but I like everything else about it.

Here's some additional thoughts -- some of my criteria for fixed blade goodness.

- It should have a little notch at the base of the blade, so you can sharpen the entire length of the blade without running into the ricasso.

- It should match whatever sharpening system you like. That is, for jig or guide systems it should have enough flat area to clamp or orient the knife during sharpening. (Not a problem if you sharpen freehand or with a V rig like the Spyderco Sharpmaker.)

- It should have a sheath and attachment features that match your preferred carry and use.

- It should have a full-tang blade and a slab handle. I think micarta is the best overall material for durability, imperviousness to solvents, and good tactile (and aesthetic) qualities.

- I like single-edged clip point blades with lots of belly as being the best all-round cutters. Dropped points are good too. I don't like (American geometric) tanto points.

- The stock thickness should match the overall blade size. I prefer thicknesses in the range of 1/8 to 3/16 inches. 1/4 inch stock always seems too thick to me.

- For an all-purpose, largish knife, the back or spine of the blade should have enough width and rounded corners to support batoning.

- A lanyard hole is a must.

That's all that comes to mind for now.

I'll have to take a look at the Gamer. I have two Benchmade Outbounders (one in 440c, one in D2) which I like for a light, handy neck knife, and a Benchmade Nimravus Cub in 440c that's actually pretty sturdy, despite being very light.

I thought about responding to your Buck post- I have a number of them, as I was quite enamored with them as a young man, but I learned the hard way not to rely on them. Some Bucks just seem to be brittle- I've had chunks come out of an edge just cutting into soft pine. They rest in drawers now.

The weight is surprising on the TAK. Not extreme, but I have a lot of lighter knives with just as much edge, and that probably means I wouldn't carry it hiking much. Even so, I can't seem to help liking it, and the handle shape has a lot to do with that.

That's what I like about S30V ... all the strength w/o the weight.

Therein lies the one and only problem with my beloved Benchmade DPT Rant. A very simple modification will remedy that though. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I've almost found it easier to list "vetoes", the things that, to me, disqualify an knife from serious consideration. I admit that my list of vetoes is pretty long, but, IMHO, it's shorter than the list of possible desirable features... and they tend to be more absolute. I find that my "negatives" are pretty firm, whereas there are a lot of knives I might consider despite lacking some nice feature or another. The notch at the choil is a case in point- I also like it, but it's not a "must have" for me... and it's pretty trivial to add yourself, if you like a knife otherwise.

We all flip through knife catalogs, and, if you're at all experienced, only a few catch your eye. It's just a matter of listing why the others don't.

dchinell and Presumed_Lost,

dchinell's point about being compatible with your sharpening system is what I don't like about the Gamer. I use a Lasky, and the false edge on the back of the Gamer makes it hard to clamp on. There's a flat spot, but it's just a little further back than I'd like to clamp the Lasky. I haven't sharpened it yet, but it should work. Or maybe that's the knife I'll use to learn how to hand sharpen properly.

I've been really intrigued by that knife, though I haven't seen/handled it in person.

OK, my survival ignorance is going to show here, but...

I've been reading several forums lately while researching to purchase a good fixed blade knife. I already have the wonderfull RSK folder and like it a lot, but I would also like to have a good fixed blade too.

Why? Well, the primary use most likely won't be survival, it will be for messy food preparation while camping. I hate to get food guts, meat or fruit, inside the folder.

Given that I find myself in a survival situation, having a stronger fixed blade to backup my RSK, or via versa. I'm a big believer in having backups to key equipment (knives, fire starting, water collection/cleaning, shelter, navigation).

When I read survival forums (this and others) and web sites it seems the primary function of a survival knife is to chop down small trees - I suppose this is to build shelters (though Gilligan managed to create a peddle-car).

I've also read about using them to slice, but it not clear what they are supposed to slice. I did read something about slicing an onion (typical survival rations?). The Becker Crewman looks interesting - apparently great for cutting down small trees - but I wonder how it would do cutting apples, carrots, or potatoes or slicing meat for cooking (what I think of a slicing)? Oh, and I really worry about the carbon bladed knives rusting. While I do take care of my knives, I can't be sure I'll oil a blade within 24 hours of use.

I guess I figure just about any decent knife could cut a tree big enough to hold up a tarp. I'm not planning to build a log cabin (or a car). If I need to take down a tree, I'd rather use a saw. If I need to split wood, I found a great tool for that. Its about the size of a hatchet, but much much thicker. Think of a broad wedge on a handle. It works very well, but is too heavy for backpacking. To be honest, when camping I almost never split wood. Instead I find small dead branches small enough for the task. To me, splitting wood is for car camping or home use.

Those who like the TAK (in general) might be interested in the RAT3 as posted on the RAT site itself (nothing on Ontario's site yet):



This might just be a righteous little blade... if they don't mess it up too much between prototype and production.

KenK,

There are always more specialized tools to do a specific job easier. The value of a good knife is that it's a very generalized tool (possibly THE most generalized tool), that may not do all the jobs as well, but it WILL do them. Since you're unlikely to have all the specialized tools in a field emergency, having a generalized tool can easily become a lifesaver. This is why the current thought in "survival" knives is that the more general-purpose it is, the less specialized it is, the more tasks it will do, the better.

Part of the answer to your question about the value of cutting wood is not just shelter, but fire. When it's been really raining for some time, the only dry wood to be found may well be... inside the wet wood. Sometimes deep inside. That, and the need to fabricate things out of wood (traps, stakes, handles, shelter, whatever) amounts to a critical distinction from a "hunting" (skinning) knife, which is seldom if ever called on to deal with wood.

I split wood quite easily with my Benchmade DPT Rant.

I'll second the need for splitting wood. After heavy rains that 1" diameter piece of kindling maybe soaked to the core. Batoning through some larger pieces of wood may be the only way to get to dry wood. Sometimes you need to baton all 4 sides to get at the heart of the wood.

It's a skill that should be practiced.

Adam

See, I knew my ignorance was showing. Thanks so very much for the insight - I hadn't thought of the need for dry core-wood. I have great great respect for the knowledge and experience on this forum. You folks amaze me!!

So I have to ask given that I've never held one in my hand: If I bought a Becker Crewman and used it to slice a tomato, would I have slices or tomato sauce?

I'm serious. Just trying to get a feel for how much of a brute the Crewman is. Its blade doesn't seem much thicker than many of the other knives discussed here.

I couldn't help but notice that one of Doug's lists mentions he carries the 5 inch Crewman. The next question is: Why limit oneself to the 5 inch knife when the 7 inch version is similar in cost? It seems the seven inch version would do much better for chopping/splitting. Or for that matter the 9 inch bowie.

ALSO, the Knife Forum survival forum talks ALOT about Bark River knifes, but I don't recall them mentioned much here. Why is that? I guess I'm bothered by the fact that they don't have much of a hilt and I fear that a slipped hand will get sliced, especially during rough use.

You can sharpen any knife sharp enough to slice a tomato. You could even sharpen an axe well enough. Actually, tomatoes slice better with a slightly coarse sharpening, the micro-serations saw through better. The tomato skin just pushes aside with a glossy razor sharp knife.

It's usually not the cost that matters, it's the size of knife one is willing to carry, or fit into ones PSK. I don't want to go around looking like Aragorn.

Just because a blade is"big", doesn't mean you can't do fine work with it, I once won a cash bet by getting 16 slices out of a tomato using a meat cleaver, they were all flat, firm and true, but I had worked the edge of the cleaver up before starting to slice the tomato. I won another bet by shaving my right arm bare with a machete, I got some strange looks with one bare arm for a while, but fifty bucks was fifty bucks.

Troy

I’ve been looking at the Bark Rivers. I think that they are aesthetically pleasing, they look to be the size I’m looking for (the Mini & Mikro look like they would make great EDC’s), and the A2 steel seems like a good enough choice. My concern is, and this is only my preference, the hollow grind. I don’t hunt, so I rarely cut flesh (on purpose anyway). I mostly cut wood, rope, plastic, cardboard, radiator hoses, orange peels, and the occasional beer can. I want a blade that is pretty beefy right up the cutting edge. I also want something that I can easily sharpen in the field (with or without a jig). So for me, the hollow grind isn’t the best choice. (Of course, now I’ll find out that I’m wrong about the grind.). As far as the hilt is concerned, I don’t see that as a huge problem as the knives appear to be designed for finer work.

For what it’s worth,
Biscuits

I’ve been looking at the TAK. It looks like a good sized knife. I didn’t know about the RAT-3 until you mentioned it. (Thanks, by the way). I think I’ll wait until Dec. and see what the final product looks like.

Thanks for the heads up,
Biscuits

Bisquits:

I don't like fixed blade knives without a solid hilt at least on the sharpened edge. Even those "semi hilts" that are rounded out parts of the handle are not secure enough for me.

No matter how fine the work you are doing, one slip is liable to put your hand over the cutting edge a lot quicker on a knife with no hilt.

Remember you are talking about a knife that may be used in wet, bloody, muddy, or sweaty conditions, all of which help put Murphy's law in motion.

If a decent folder were made with a worthwhile folding hilt, I would probably buy it. As it is, the only folding hilt knives I know of (The hilt is not that strong on them.) are Italian and German switchblades which are not legal hereabouts for public possesion.

Bountyhunter

Biscuits,

The Bark Rivers are not hollow ground, they're convex ground- sort of the opposite. It's a little different, requires different sharpening techniqes (Fallkniven and Opinels are also convex), and has it's own virtues.

I bought and then traded off two Bark River knives, a mini-Canadian and a Highland, but I used them almost not at all, so there's a lot about them (edge holding, durablity, steel) that I can't comment on. The decision to trade them was based almost entirely on size (they're a LOT smaller than they look in photos), handle size and geometry.

On the other hand, I have a North Star on order... on the third hand, I'd guess there's a 30 percent chance I might trade that away too. There are things I like about them and things I don't- I was more enthusiastic in the early stages of design.

I used to feel very much that way, and still do, to some extent. Long ago I had a fairly bad accident with a Japanese aikuchi, which has no guard, when my hand slipped forward onto the (VERY sharp) edge.

However, over the years I've handled a number of knives that feel pretty safe to me in that regard even without having a "guard" per se. A lot of it has to do with the shape of the handle and ricasso area. The lack of a guard also helps with the draw (especially from a pouch sheath), and usually adds a bit of flexibility in using the knife. I'm a bit more open minded about the whole thing now.

The TAK is a good case in point- it has no explicit "gaurd", but the handle shape is very good, and I have no hesitation at all in using it. The lack of a guard allows one to more easily "choke up" on it...

But, like many things "knives", it's very much about personal preference.

RE: Becker Crewman.
I have one and use it a lot. Do a search of the archive and you will find my tiny review as well as much other info. I like everything about it, but the handle and sheath. Re-did both.

It is not a good knife for cutting carrots and such as the thickness sends the cut pieces into orbit. Splits them more than cuts them. However it does have its uses. It is quite heavy and this is a penalty that you should consider. I am from the "sharpened prybar" school of knives and the Crewman works for me. But your mileage may vary....

Hi Alejandro,
Yours is a very good question. I have the Cold Steel SRK (Survival Rescue Knife). It is a very good knife and the price is not bad even from Cold Steel. You can do a search and find it at even a better price, about $60 or so on some sites. For a second, about $50 with only cosmetic slight blemishes. You could do a LOT worse in a very tough knife.

So I'm gathering that a plan might be to have two knives:

(1) Robust fixed blade knife such as the Becker Crewman or others for chopping and heavy work

(2) and a smaller knife such as Doug's RSK or a Leatherman for slicing, whittling, and finner work.

It seems I wouldn't want to be without a second backup knife anyway.

In a word .... "Yep!" <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

A lot of people around here would agree with that philosophy. Even Doug, according to what I remember of his articles on this site, (it's been a while since I last read through them) has a scalpel blade in his smallest kit for a backup to his EDC which in itself includes both a large folder and multitool as well. That's three blades.

I personally don't go much for big knives. If I need more than a 5" blade then I must be in some serious #$%^ like waking up in a south american rain forest. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> With a 5" blade I can split logs up to 4.5" diameter... maybe even 4.75" if I'm careful. My current outdoors EDC is a 4.5" fixed blade (BM10505DPT) although I just put an order in tonight for an upgrade (BM190DPH) to that knife which will actually be taking me down to 4.0" for my one and only outdoors EDC blade.