Long Duration Survival

I haven't had to actively practice it here in Florida, but I'm sure there alot of those "nuts" telling everyone "I told you so!". Everyone in Florida has been awakened to the reality of interruption of essential services and products. Even those that planned for 3 days, 7 days or 14 days, are starting to find that their cash and supplies are running low. Items such as gasoline, water and ice are all a precious commodity (pretty much ice and water are taken care of here where I'm at, you don't have to hunt as much).

Next year, you can bet more Floridians will have hurricane shutters/plywood, generators, water, and gasoline all ready when a hurricane hits.

What is most surprising to me is the fact that homes in florida - a place where hurricanes are common - don't require extensive storm-proofing, storm shelters and so forth. I was even more surprised to hear that hurrican Charley destroyed not only seven firehouses, it also took out an emergency operation center and some shelters. If these buildings aren't built to withstand a Cat 5 storm, I guess it's too much to expect an ordinary home to take it either.

Storing gas and such for a MONTH might be in order given that they've found that we may be entering a period where 3-4 major storms a MONTH will be common in Florida!

The Charlotte County EOC was the one that was hit. It's roof came off. Theirs was a "normal" building, where as the EOC in Brevard is truly a bunker. I have some concerns about the big old tower out front (everyone keeps telling me that 120mph is about the best towers can handle, yet alot of guyed towers in Charlotte survived).

Looks like Florida _might_ be spared Ivan. I hope so!

Don't prepare for one potential threat by creating another. If you store gasoline do it safe. I will never forget a friend offering me a ride home during the first gas crisis. A 1964 Dodge Dart with a 20 gallon trash can where the removed back seat was, with a hose running out the window to the filler outlet was a bit much. <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Heheheh well put Chris. I second that. If you blow yourself up or set yourself on fire then you wasted a lot of time and money preparing for the hurricane. <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

good point chris, and atleast it wasnt a pinto.

It seems like it would be nice to have a 100-gallon gas tank buried on your property. Unfortunately, I'm sure there are tons of regulations and safety concerns about that. Be interesting though, a tanker showing up to your house! They'd probably be concerned you were making napalm or some other "security" problem.

I'm not an environmental law specialist, but there are "underground storage tank" (UST) laws & regulations that are extremely stringent (see EPA website ) ....

Yeah, I figure there would be, but it looks as though your link doesn't apply to gasoline tanks:

280.10 Applicability

(b) The following UST systems are exluded from the requirements of this part:

(1) Any UST system holding hazardous wastes listed or identified under Subtitle C of the Solid Waste Disposal Act, or a mixture of such hazardous wastes and other regulated substances

(4) Any UST system whose capacity is 110 gallons or less

But looking at the Solid Waste Disposal Act doesn't help either, because it specifically mentions "solid waste", nothing about "liquid" gasoline. Assuming that it's not covered there, it would be covered "here", and it's under 110 gallons! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

When in doubt consult your local attorney and regulatory agency. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Recently I spent a lot of time researching the local building and zoning codes online. Thank you US Supreme Court. Apparently, I can't store gasoline in greater than 5 gallon containers on residential property. It might be standard BOCA language, but I'm not sure.

Underground tank regulations only apply to, um, underground tanks. We had a 100 gallon above ground tank at an old house I lived in once, which wouldn't be affected by UST regulations (of course maybe there were other applicable regulations), that was used for fueling farm equipment. And of course it's very common to have home heating oil tanks of 500 gallons or more. You can run a diesel engine on heating oil if you have to.

underground is highly regulated, but many people have 100 gallon tanks above ground. My grandfather had two, my father stores 50gal in gas and 50gal Diesel. If you have enough property buy an old farm tractor and a brush hog to "mow" your land and then fill a 50gallon drum, if you truly farm you can get a farm discount (just don't use any on public roads) or some of the small stations will still give a bulk discount. They are much less picky about above ground though it seems to me gas leaking from either would cause just the same mess, however you could have a leaky underground tank and never notice until its empty where a leaky above ground tank you will notice the smell and puddle on the floor/ground.

I think the reason they get more upset about below ground is that it's a lot less obvious if it leaks. You can pretty much tell right away if above ground is leaking- you see a wet spot on the ground.

nothing really to add to the discussion but im curious how long it would take to fill said 100 or 500 gal tank of gal, oil etc.

We have two diesel tanks, an oil tank for heat in our shop, and one gas because we do commercial construction. We used to have below ground tanks with pumps, but they have become difficult to have with all the enviromental stuff, so we took them out and now use above ground. In fact we are waiting on an ok from the town to build on land that was contaminated by an underground diesel tank. Best bet now is to go above ground if you have the room. For the average person who doesn't plan on using a lot frequently maybe a steel drum with a pump might be a better solution? Fill it once with gas cans and then make sure you keep it topped off. A drum is a bit easier to move around when needed then a big tank.

Well, since ki4buc mentioned burying a tank, I thought the UST regulations would be relevant. Of course, if the tank is above-ground, it might be more susceptible to storm damage or pilfering, but (as the posters above note) it would be easier to spot any leaks.

Not real long, I went with my father a few times to fill his 50gal, its just liek filling a truck with a big tank, some full size trucks can be bought with dual tanks that hold 25 gals each so its just like filling one of those.
Grandfather would have a big tanker truck drive down to the farm and fill his, same truck that fills the gas stations IIRC so it has a bigger hose and bigger pump would fill real quick.

A few years ago I used to work for a large supermarket chain, who also sold thier own brand Gas in pumps next to thier stores.
When a gas truck crashed or rolled, the concern wasn't for the cost of the gas, it was for the cost of the cleanup operation. If the gasoline ended up in a farmers field than then entered the water table the cost rose dramatically. Compensation doesn't come cheap.
I have no knowledge of US law, but the cost of a leak will probably outweigh the benefits of storing such large quantities.
Just my 2 cents worth