fire starting

Here's my .02....
Bought a mag bar back when I was in the Corps. Carried it in the field and never had much luck even under the best of conditions. It's short life ended in a blinding brilliance in a camp fire. I wouldn't have another if you gave it to me.
Bought a sparklite and tenders a year ago. Have tested under every weather condition since then. Had very good luck starting fires in mild conditions, but as weather worsens so does it's ability to start a fire. After a 2 day heavy rain and 1 day of mild weather, starting a fire with this method was near hopeless. Got one started after using a combined 5 tenders, thus using up the rest of my supply of tenders.
As far as life boat matches go, wind proof and water proof are their greatest advantages, but after a 2 day rain, near worthless.
Had good results with vasoline soaked cotton. Was actually surprised at how well they worked after a long rain.
BUT, I have never failed to start a fire even under the worst conditions using trioxane bars, rainy season in a tropical forest, snow covered landscape above the arctic circle, deserts of Arizona and West Texas, swamps of North Carolina, from California to Nebraska.
For a good many years I have tried just about everything for starting fires and my absolute favorite is trioxane.
Some may say that they are too big. Well, so is my kit.
We used to say in the Corps that we could carry anything in the field, in addition to our issue, we just had to be wiiling to carry it.
I basically carry shelter, fire, water and first aid. I keep it pretty simple.
I'll still carry my sparklite and a ferro bar.
If someone likes some other methods, that's fine.
But I tell you what, if it means the difference between life or death, I'm using something that I have the most confidence in after years of testing.
And isn't that what it's all about?

hi rooknine : i agree with you about the trioxane...bar for bar it beats out any other fire starter i know and can start a fire just about anywhere ... i think if you have the ability/room to carry (fat wood),(maya sticks),( lighters) , (mag.bars) and (strike force) type flints in your pockets or belt pouch... you have the room to carry one small foil packet of trioxane...for me it gets the job done and the price is right , at about 98 cents per small box of three bars each..you can also get them in smaller boxes of three small single tabs per box ,more compact.. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.vince g..

I always had problems getting them lit, though once lit nothing was putting them out. I think the older they get the harder they are to light. Also, trioxane is toxic I believe. Not something I would want if I had to light a fire in a partially enclosed space. (Igloo/snow cave/hut/shelter/ect)

paul810 : the problem of " trying to get them lit" is a problem i have never delt with...if i look at the trioxane bar crosseyed it will catch fire. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.i have also used basic flint and steel to spark it , and it lights right now no problem ...but i will admit , once air gets to the tablet it starts to decay and will turn to powder...it takes weeks to do it but it will decay/powder...vince g.

I had a few bars that were about 7-10 years old. I tried lighting them with a BSA hot spark, they wouldn't light. It took a few seconds with a lighter before I got one to catch, when it did catch it wasn't giving off a lot of heat. I found it to be about as hard to light as an Esbit tab, but not as hot. My experience with them wasn't very good. I have had great luck with fatwood and cotten/vaseline though. The cotten catches really well and burns for a long time, if it gets wet I just wring it out. Fatwood burns well even when wet and makes a nice hot flame, I can even light it with a hot spark if I scrape a bit off.

Yeah, I had some that were something more than 20 years old. I opened one, tried to light it with a match, and it didn't, so I threw out the lot.

I'm no expert about it's chemical toxicity, but I've heard enough that I replaced the stock with Esbit tablets, which at least claim to be non-toxic. As a side benefit, they're also useful for powering a couple of model Stirling engines from time to time, just to illustrate the principles....

alright mate
I personaly don't like the magnesium bars either, they can be a pain. I personaly like the sweedish fire steel as a backup and keep a couple of lighters. I used to use the wind proof matches but they never lasted long (tempted to light my smokes with them) <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
For tinder I use cotton wool or hexamine or i'll use a candle.

Well, what happens if you are out in the woods and you run out of trioxane? Any ideas what to look for then?

I gotta say it again I reckon. Anytime I am out in the woods for any length of time, I have a habit of collecting tree pitch. I really like Spruce and Douglas Fir. It is fairly easy to find if you know what you are looking for.

It kinda depends on where you are, though. For instance, I don't have many trees around here, so collecting pitch locally is not realistic.

If there are any trees then it is possible to find tinder fairly easily. Even if the woods are very wet from rain. There is usually something laying about with a punky side down that has some dried punk in the center. There may also be something local equivalent to birch bark or pitch which will burn well and start fairly easily. If there are any evergreens then the really thin feathery twigs at the extreme ends of dead branches can be collected and made into a decent "nest" that will light even when wet. If there are no trees then I am not too sure what to look for. I hike in forested areas and haven't had to deal with finding fuel in a prarie situation. I am certain that wet grasses are going to be the wrong idea anyhow. In marshes you can often find cattail or milkweed - both of these can be found dry in the right season because the pods will dry even when closed and closed - dried pods will keep the tinder try within. Not available in the spring tho. If there are any trees or shrubs then in may be just a matter of becomming familiar with which are resinous enough to light easily. Standing dead wood or dead branches still attached to the tree are the best source for truely dry fuel when it's been raining for a while since the rain will drip off rather than soak in. Down dead wood is a good source for punk but you must make sure you get dry punk or it will be akin to trying to light a sponge. If there is a large diameter log with a punky underside you can dig into it a ways and usually come up with something fairly dry. Don't take the first layer tho.

Minime;

I agree. There seem to be two schools of thought "furiously agreeing" in these threads. One school concentrates on the best material to have with you, and that's all well and good. If you're the type of person who never leaves home without a Trioxane bar, a handful of Esbit tabs, a Propane torch, or a WWII surplus flame-thrower, then more power to you. For myself, I'm so absent-minded that if it's not in my wallet, on my key-chain, or in the glove compartment, I don't feel I can rely on it. (And what's in the glove compartment is only available if I'm in or near my car, duh!)

Personally, I've found the FeCe rod on a Coghlan's mag-flint block to be superior to the Swedish Firesteel, and if you can shelter it from the wind and avoid having the flakes blow all over the place, ISTM that a pile of magnesium shavings will ignite just about anything that will burn. :-)

i personally prefer a swedish firesteel with fatwood as tinder over mine MFS everyday. Fatwood is much easyier to scrape and burns longer. I also got pertolium jely infused cotonbals, BIC lighter and matches in mine pack. And another fersoium rod on mine keychain. I agrea that you can't rely on things you do not have with you.

A matchsafe with SAW matches and a couple of trick birthday candles will be adequate for almost any situation provided you know how to find tinder, fuel and shelter. If there is a driving rain you will have to shelter your fire from the rain and wind and if you can do that you can shelter your matches and candle also. If you have flood conditions don't bother with the fire anyway. A little pile of magnesium shavings will be just about useless to me unless there is a dead calm conditions. Those suckers blow away with the slightest breeze. I am not looking to be prepared to make a new fire every day for several months. I am more concerned that I can light a couple of fires and keep them going until I am rescued. If I determine that I will have to walk out then I will carry an ember if I have run out of matches. I do carry a sparklite, a mini-bic, matchsafe as described above, sparklite tinders, pocket-lint, and often in the back-country I will have white-gas or alcohol but that would be considered lost with the pack and trioxane or esbit which would be in the belly pack and therefore perhaps retained. I also would usually have some ranger-bands and latex gloves. If you get either of those burning (perhaps over the trick birthday candle) you can burn just about any wood from there. A rangerband will burn hot and long and dry out your tinder and ignite it rather well. Stinks tho.

Hmmm - freeze to death, or smell bad? Now THERE's a difficult choice <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

hey you guys : thanks alot for all the tips and info...man alot of different views out their for sure...and its good to here them all , thanks . <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />...mind you the trioxane works good for me vince g. as i carry them in regular camp kit/rucksack and not part of my personal survival tin... it may not work well for someone else , everyone is different... vince g. 11b inf..

Someone must have a report on the lethal gases released from burning rubber bands.

I still stand by my opinion, that trioxane is superior to any other method of fire starting which is as portable.

When you have used these bars in the past, did you ever try breaking them up or shaving them a bit? I have not tried that myself, but seems that it might be a bit easier to light if the block was/could be shaved.
I need to open one up to see if this would make a difference.

Like the line John Candy used in the movie "Splash", "When I find something that works, I stick with it."

I'll worry about the fumes from my ranger bands right after I finish drinking the burbon from my nalgene and smoking my macanudo portofino which I lit from the burning ranger band. Then after I'm done worrying I will use the cigar to light my trioxane bar with another ranger band wrapped round it so that I can light a fire with the green ceder branches I sawed off the only tree left with my wire saw. Damn; there I go again wasting ranger bands when I should have just lit up the tree where it stood with the first ranger-band!

Blasphemy!
No one, but NO ONE lights a macanudo portofino from a burning ranger band.
Have you learned nothing in all these discussions?
I am sorry, but I only hope you will find forgiveness from a higher source, for you will not get it from me.
<img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You're absolutely right it would be far better to light it from the fresh cedar. A much more aromatic light! And less wasted rangerbands that way. As I said better to have lit up the tree with the first ranger band!

The bars I have are scored twice to break easier but can be broken into smaller pieces with a little more effort or scoring with a knife.
Have not tried shaving one. Really no need to . They ignite easily with a sparlite striker or ferro rod or match.
If you have not used them before, one word of caution, they burn with a clear flame and can "get you" if you're not paying attention.
They change color a bit when lit, that's when I know to move my fingers back and "not touch it again", because they do not extinguish easily.

With Trioxane, if the foil gets broken, oxidation will degrade the fuel, not optimal.

Hexamine will also oxidize over time if not sealed, and it is not waterproof, the copressed bar/lozenge breaks up...

I find that I choose Pitchwood or Fatwood for it's solid and water-resistant form. Alternately, cotton balls soaked in white petrolatum(vaseline) are a good tinder, though if you get too much white petrolatum in there, you will have to get the excess out before it will light easily, but then again, the excess makes for better water resistance.

Gee, good thing I vacuum pack the bar in my kit.
By the way, how long does trioxane have to exposed in order to deteriorate beyond the point of usefullness?

I do not now how long it takes to be oxidized into unreliability.

But, my mindset is this...

My kit will get wet.
My kit will be mangled
The contents of my kit will be wet.
The contents of my kit will be mangled.
Thus, the items in my kit, must, in every instance possible, be reasonably durable and reasonably water-resistant.

Trioxane does not meet these requirements. So, I do not carry it.

Also, I feel that proper knowledge and technigue of fire-starting is really the key, with what understanding I have, which is shallow compared to the guys with real dirt-time, I am able to get a fire going with a metal match and fatwood in nearly any circumstances. Of course, once you have the fire started, the need for an axe can become quite acute.

I see what you mean.
My experience is limited to jungle survival school in South America, cold weather training in Norway, and desert training in Arizona.
So I guess you just gotta go with what your guts tell ya.

Why does the axe have to be cute as long as it cuts?

Bountyhunter

Just a convenient location to stick my 2 cents and not really a "reply" to your post:

Trioxane is ok - I carry 3 small bars and replace them by "consumption" that works out to about two replacements a year for various reasons. The big bars are ok but not really neccessary most of the time. Been using them since sometime in the seventies; I know them, know what to expect from them, and they are kind of a "security blanket" for me w.r.t. starting a fire.

They do deteriorate - even sealed up - which is a well-documented fact and not simply my experience. But sealed up they are fine as long as you break one of your stock out for inspection, oh, say annually and replace the lot with fresh when the deterioration becomes obvious.

Even old ones seem to be trivial to ignite with a BSA hotspark, but that's just my experience. I did have a rotten time once with a really old one, but it lit on about the 4th try.

I could do as well with an equivalent amount of gasoline or stove fuel in a sealed squirt bottle. In fact, I've done that on a few trips... but I still routinely carry 3 trioxanes anyway.

But if other methods work for other folks, drive on. I like cotton balls with vasoline for routine use and I like fatwood when I have it - haven't tried spark-lighting fatwood dust myself and guess I should try that out. Char cloth works fine with a "birds nest" for me and I start fires that way just often enough to keep it a skill instead of a memory. And so on, point being that if a person has something reliable that works for them, I'm not gonna knock it.

Now if y'all will excuse me, I'm gonna go play with some fatwood dust in my fireplace...

Regards,

Tom

bounty,

: )

worth every penny

Hmm, someone mentioned char cloth above. I love that stuff. Good char cloth can hold a spark made from the spine of my knife against a hard rock. If I was really in a survival situation where I didn't have any tools with me, that would probibly be my big want. As long as it is dry it can catch the smallest spark. I try to carry a small tin of it and some natural fiber rope if I plan on going out into the woods, it works real nice for regular fires, while the cotton/p-jelly stays as a quick and easy back up for if it starts raining or something.

well, i've never dealt with trioxine, but i thought i'd fill everyone in on my recent experience with it.

After reading this post, I was at a local surplus shop and saw the bars on sale for $0.90 for a box of three. When I looked at them, they were marked 07/11/86. That's right, 1986. So, just out of curiosity I bought three boxes.

When I got them home, I went out back with a Bic, Matches, and Flint/Mag bar (which i'm not too fond of) Anyway, I broke off a small piece, layed it down, and fired it right up with the Bic. I was completely amazed that it even burned,much less so well.

I tried the flint by itself with no luck. After about 8 solid hits on the bar with sparks I thought I'd try some Mag shavings. I shaved off a very, very small amount of magnesium. Not even enough to cover a dime. With one hit from the flint bar, the trioxine was up an running. I was amazed.

I had the opportunity to try it out in the field two nights ago on a short hike/campout with some friends. They've never dealt
with it before and were equally amazed at it's burn temperature. It burned long enough and hot enough to start our fire in no time.

In summary, for 90 cents for three bars, I think I can find some room in my pack for it. It may not be "life dependable" but for most
circumstances, it's outstanding. I should mention that I believe that in no way should a manufactured fire starter ever replace the
ability to start a fire without one. All you need is an ember!!! Practice your fire bow and carry cordage and a stout knife. And by all
means, get out there and enjoy yourself!

-Luke