One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared

Posted by: Doug_Ritter

One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/08/04 10:15 PM

One in four New Yorkers haven't taken the most basic steps to prepare for an emergency - and less than half know basic first aid, a Red Cross survey found.

Whole story at: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/local/story/171332p-149520c.html
Posted by: aardwolfe

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/08/04 10:27 PM

Doesn't surprise me. About two years ago, I agreed to teach a First Aid course for free to three local Boy Scout troops; twelve Scout leaders signed up.

On the day of the course, only four students showed up - and one of them wasn't even one of the twelve who'd signed up, but had driven down from a town up north just "on spec" to see if there was space available.

9 of the 12 had simply decided they would prefer to sleep in, or do something else with their weekend. Or maybe they just forgot. <img src="images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

(The next time I taught a First Aid course for them, their leader had them pay in advance, then re-imbursed them after they completed the course. Strangely enough, we had a full class.) <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: joblot

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/08/04 10:46 PM

I'd call that apathy.
Its a 20th Century disease, brought on by the idea that the state will come to your rescue whatever the situation, and that money is the be-all and end-all.
Its typical of a culture that is reliant on the goodwill of our political system and our way of life, and is lazy in its attitude to others. In other words its the: "it'll never happen to me so who cares, especially if its going to cost me money" attitude.

Posted by: DBAGuy

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/08/04 11:29 PM

Why would New Yorkers be any different from those who live in L.A. , S.F., Miami, or Denver? The collective fear they felt has subsided, the danger seems far away, and it may never repeat itself.

As usual, those who are prepared (I think 'survivalist' is not a designation encouraged here, correct?) are looked upon as odd and paranoid.

What I find unusual is that it indeed "happens" to someone every day. Every day a neighbor dies of a heart attack, a car wreck, SLIPPING ON ICE - yet it seems that there is a great deal of isolation that discourages interest in the world.
Posted by: Eugene

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/09/04 02:33 AM

I was thinking the same, should be one in four Americans or one in four people. Even then I think one in four is a bit high. I couldn't name another person, except maybe the maintenance workers, in my building who carry a flashlight or knife, and those maintenance men only carry it because it is part of their toolbox not as and EDC or PSK item. I've met a few guys who carry leathermans and a couple with Mag solitaires or small led lights on their keychain but mostly because someone bought their dad a present for Christmas or Birthday, no thought into preparedness. I certainly haven't met one in four, one in 10 at best with a single item that could be used in an emergency.
Posted by: ScottRezaLogan

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/09/04 04:51 AM

What joblot says, People either Being Busy / or Thinking they are, and Modern Day Creature Comforts!, -Come to Mind as Likely Things Behind this!

If NYC *After* September 11th is No Better at Basic Preparedness than That Figure!........! And it's Really Not All that Long Thereafter!

If NYC is so, I Hate to so How Much Less some Other Places may be so!

I'm a Good Bit Inclined to Ruefully Have to Lean to your Possible Figures!, Eugene.

I Think Split Screen Comparisons shud be Made on the Tube! Of America in the Immeadiate Weeks and Months Following Sept. 11th! And America as it has Largely and Lethargically Laxed Off by Now! The Contrast would be Astoni-Striking! Sure we Keep a Lot of Alertness Up! But we Drop Too Many Balls too! Where is our Sea of Flags!? They Lasted No More than a Half a Year! We as a Nation Loudly said that we'd Never Forget! I Wonder How Well we Really Sometimes Remember!

I Mean to Steer Clear of Politics and Controversy! Writing the Previous Paragraph makes me Nervous from that Standpoint! But I Write the Previous Paragraph in Connection with What we're saying here about NYC and American Basic Preparedness.

Such Knowledge and Kits, are of course even More Important than say Flags, when it Comes to Things along Preparedness Lines in Itself. But Other Things as we be, can be Symptomatic of This Lack of Preparedness or of a Preparedness Mindset and Attitude.

I Must Add, in All Factuality, that I'm Not yet Fully Up to Speed on General Preparedness, Personally myself! I will at least mention, that I still have Spots on my Own Kettle, while Constructively Commenting on that of Others. [color:"black"] [/color] [email]Eugene[/email]
Posted by: Craig

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/09/04 02:23 PM

Does not surprise me, either, but there simply is no excuse for it.
Posted by: Glock-A-Roo

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/09/04 02:56 PM

Haven't you guys seen "New York CPR" in action? It goes like this:

Patient collapses on sidewalk, clutching his chest and gasping for air. New York City native walks by, looks at patient, and says with perfect Brooklyn twang: "get up before you frickin' die!".

Just a joke, but I'll bet our ETS forum friend Polak187 has seen something similar for real... <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: Polak187

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/09/04 04:07 PM

Yes. It is a well known fact that you can fall down on the street in NYC and people will just walk around you and if there is no space even over you. I see it everyday.

Example:
93K check out unconscious on the 4th ave 36 Street on the cross
Central, conditions?
93K be aware call came form the cell phone conditions unknown I get you PD backup.

So we get there and there is somebody unconscious lying on the street with head busted open. We take care of the guy, stabilize him and load him on the bus (he was pronounced later on). I ask PD to ask around if anyone seen anything since I got my hands full with suction and ventilation. It comes up that Seven Eleven clerk saw the guy lying there for at least an hour but he wants no trouble or any involvement. How about all those people that passed by in this period? In the era of cell phones why somebody didn't make the call earlier? Per Doc in the ER, if we got him there within 30 min of the fall chances of survival for this guy were about 75%.

And I'm not surprised that New Yorkers are not prepared. We can have 9/11 every year and people wouldn't care much. I think that the rest of the country cares more about what happened on that day than people in NY (except for FD, PD and EMS). From one point of view it is good that we "get over" things and move on but lessons should be learned. I heard people voicing their opinion that rest of the county is more patriotic. That NYC is too liberal. Maybe that’s it. I don’t know.

"Blackout" was the second time NY got a rude awaking. I don't think anyone learned from that either. Nobody knows how hard Public Agencies were at work in order to save people. Again out of sight out of mind.

What will it take? A nuke in the middle of Manhattan? Thank God I revolve around people who are more open minded. My friends are either ex Army, Cops, Fireman, fellow EMTs, Medics or just regular folks who are aware of possible danger (even if remote). Our basic idea and motto in life is that maybe but maybe when the [censored] goes down we will have to rely on each other or ourselves and there may be no gov’t agency to help us out. Obviously NYC is not the place where I can camp out, sling my rifle around my shoulder and hunt (unless I get to the Bronx zoo). But basic preparedness such as 72 hrs food supply, water, basic survival items are a must. Yes I can take it to the extreme with titanium cookware, LED flashlight fetish, etc etc… but nobody tells you to have everything top notch. I think people should stop sticking their hands out for help and put them to work.

I love this city, I love Brooklyn and Manhattan and I love the streets. I love helping people and making the difference but it hurts me that a lot of people are not getting help either because they couldn’t help themselves by being unprepared or because their fellow man failed to help them.

Matt

Posted by: David

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/09/04 04:15 PM

Quote:
Matt/Polak187 wrote:
Obviously NYC is not the place where I can camp out, sling my rifle around my shoulder and hunt (unless I get to the Bronx zoo).


You know the difference between a zoo in the north & one in the south? In the north, the cages have the name of the animal & an interesting fact; in the south, the cages have the name of the animal, an interesting fact, and a recipe.

<img src="images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

David
Posted by: frenchy

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/09/04 05:06 PM

I guess it's part of the "I'm the only one in the world" syndrom, that you can see in every big city.
'I'm the only one who count"
"only me and myself"
"if I ever need help, gvt -PD- FD etc.. will take care of it, because, hey, it's ME !"

Same thing that the "why should I bother myself to drive and park a few 50 or 100meters away (where there is a free parking place), when I can just park in two lines, bothering everybody else, to go and buy my pack of fags?" attitude ....


In rural areas, people are more isolated and they know, if something bad ever happens, they can only count on themselves and their immediate neighbours. So they are more readily prepared to help themselves or their own neighbours ...

and yes, you got it right !
I'm more than tired with the "why bother myself when I can more easily bother somebody else" attitude I encounter several times, every single day that passes by..... <img src="images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Posted by: JOEGREEN

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/09/04 07:00 PM

Out here on Long Island, you'd be hard pressed to find one in four who HAVE taken the basic steps in being prepared. People seemed pretty gung-ho after 9-11, and we were uncharacteristically civil, even polite, to each other for awhile. But it seems we've slipped back to the stereotypical New Yorker crassness that we're famous for, as evidenced by our custom of "flipping the bird" to each other on the L.I.E. All that I can do is fight my own apathy.
Posted by: adam

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/09/04 08:04 PM

Joe,
I also live on Long Island (the eastern end) I too am quite surprised by the slow change back to the old ways. It takes a big tragedy to bring people together but it's odd that we can't be polite and civil just for the sake of it.

As for the 1 in 4 number I think that's on the high side. We have 6 people in our office right now and I’m the only one that you could call reasonably prepared. I think people in higher density areas are more prone to relying on the government for assistance.

I’ve had some major changes in my life over the past few years all of which make me feel like I should be better prepared than I was the day before.

Adam
Posted by: Paul810

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/09/04 10:02 PM

I love it how people always ask me to barrow my knife or flashlight, yet fail to carry their own. Don't they see the usefullness of these items or what? I've come to the conclusion I am giving out photons and leathermans for presents. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: m9key

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/09/04 10:15 PM

we must never forget besides if anything you are adding a new arsenal of instincts to your resume its about thinking outside the box i work in a port in florida and i remember that dreadful day i was at work i thought i was in a movie holy cow "new york under attack, wash. dc under attack, no fly zone over the united states plane crashing in penn. never again will i be caught off guard"........
Posted by: KG2V

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/10/04 03:41 PM

Matt,
I too hang with a bunch of strange NYers - MOST of my friends think 3 days gear is a nice start. Then again, I'm one of those guys who has my ARC shelter worker courses, first aid courses etc under my belt, and help TEACH this stuff to others. I can tell you the names, phone numbers etc of the folks who run disaster services at places like the Red Cross, Satern, etc

I know the guy who sits across the hall from me at work carries a go bag (as do I) - there are one or 2 others on the floor who have a very minimal kit. Oh well. Then again, you and I (and one of my other co-workers who posts here) have mentioned this before. The blackout hit, we shrugged, and got busy helping. Had a training drill last weekend - I have a BIG drill Sunday.
Posted by: JOEGREEN

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/10/04 04:32 PM

Paul,
They probably DO see the usefulness, but it's easier to ask to borrow yours than to bother carrying their own. Cheaper for them, too.
Posted by: JOEGREEN

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/10/04 04:37 PM

Adam,
You're right, 1 in 4 is on the high side. My office at work has about 70 people. In the past 6 years, I think I've seen maybe 3 pocketknives/Leatherman tools, and even fewer flashlights. I guess 9-11 and the blackout weren't significant enough to change peoples' thinking. Anyway, I'll try to buck the trend and be more civil, especially when I head out east, and I promise not to flip the bird in eastern Suffolk! <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: Eugene

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/10/04 05:25 PM

One in Four seems way high to me. I can name two other people right now out of the dozens, if not hundreds I know who actaully carry a leatherman or knife (not including family members who had better be carrying the ones I bought for them, wife does and even wanted a new leatherman after all the paint wore off of her micra).
Did anyone in NY change after 9/11 or the balckout. I'm sure a few went out and bought flashlights but I bet they put them away and couldn't tell you where they were a week after.
Posted by: indoorsman

This kind of apathy is pervasive - 03/10/04 05:30 PM

I caught the tail end of a segment on PBS the other day (so unfortunately, I don't know the details leading up to the segment) where the commentator was going through the contents of a commercially produced emergency kit, just yucking it up as he went along. "Oh look, a little foil bag with water in it. I usually just get mine out of the drinking foutain!" Yuck, yuck, yuck. "Lookie here, waterproof matches. How thoughtful of them!" Yuck, yuck, yuck. "Hmmmm...a mylar blanket. What am I suppose to do with this?" Yuck, yuck, yuck. You get the idea. Frankly, the whole thing made me sort of angry. The implication was that anyone who packed that sort of gear was some kind of survivalist wingnut.
Posted by: JOEGREEN

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/10/04 06:45 PM

You're right, Eugene. Most people I know couldn't care less about being prepared. <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Since 9/11, I've taken steps to be better prepared, such as putting together kits, learning and practicing useful skills, and always carrying a couple knives, whistles, flashlights, and a PSK at all times. It did take some getting used to. My car is now well-stocked, where in the past, I'm not sure that I even carried a flashlight in the glovebox.
Posted by: JOEGREEN

Re: This kind of apathy is pervasive - 03/10/04 06:51 PM

Indoorsman,
That commentator is probably the guy with the dead batteries in his flashlight when the power goes out.
Posted by: ScottRezaLogan

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/10/04 06:53 PM

They might Wish they had a Flashlight, in Order to Find a Flashlight in that Closet, in the Next Blackout! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]Eugene[/email]
Posted by: Eugene

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/10/04 07:41 PM

I haven't changed much. Had a Leatherman on my belt pre 9/11, flashlight in the glovebox and jumper cables in the truck. 9/11 just gave me some assurance that I was doing the right thing and that allocating some budget to supplies like that was worth it. I might have stepped up my preps some but I can't say for sure if that was due to 9/11 or just my natureal progression.
Posted by: Eugene

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/10/04 07:44 PM

I'll admit that I'm not the best ar maintainingg my preperations, found my big maglite in the garage recently with dead and leaked batteries, had to scrape the crap out of the tube before I could put new batteries in. But on the other hand I have two flashlights in my pockets, more in my truck, more in my "prep drawer" at home and spare batteries in both places as well so if I let one slip I have others to fall back on.
Posted by: joblot

Re: This kind of apathy is pervasive - 03/10/04 08:32 PM

At the end of the day, you can lead a horse to water......
You should look on it as his loss, its not going to effect you when he realises he might have been wrong in his critisism.
The problem lies on his side whether your a "wingnut" or not. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: ScottRezaLogan

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/10/04 09:23 PM

Just so there's No *Possible* Misunderstanding, -I was speaking of the Citizens out there, who Leave Flashlites in their Closets, and Not you! The Ones you Spoke of.

I Make this Clarification in the Event that there even was, any Misunderstanding!

It might Seem so, but perhaps you were just Speaking of your own Situation, in any event.

Nothing Meant by me connecting Closet Flashlights ("Torches", for our Brit Mates.) and you!

As I've said somewhere else, I've to Get my Own All Round Preparedness, Fully or at least More Fully, Up to Speed and Snuff! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]Eugene[/email]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: This kind of apathy is pervasive - 03/10/04 09:24 PM

Let him yuck yuck all he wants, when the doodoo hits the prop, he'll be lucky if one of "our kind" is around to drag his sorry butt out of whatever mess he's in the middle of.

This brings up a good question though... if (when) you help someone out who has previously sneered at your preparedness, how much "I told you so" is O.K. without overdoing it??? <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Troy
Posted by: frenchy

Re: This kind of apathy is pervasive - 03/10/04 09:27 PM

Quote:
... in his flashlight ...

Flashlight ?!?
which flashlight ?!!!???
<img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Posted by: adam

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/10/04 09:29 PM

The black out confirmed for me that I was doing the right thing by at least trying to be prepared. Small things like filling a gas tank up when it is half full, and having multiple light sources available, stores of water, food and fuel just made the crisis into a minor annoyance.

Before 911 I always had a SAK in my pocket and camping gear readily available for power outages. But since 911 and the birth of my son I’ve become much more diligent in my preparedness.
Posted by: adam

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/10/04 09:43 PM

It's not easy putting together a kit and carrying it every day. With every thing I have going on in my life right now I could easily not plan for the "what ifs" in life but I just can't take that chance.

But I was amazed that we didn't have any outbreaks of violence in the city during the blackout. When I think about the blackout I wonder how people would have fared if the blackout happened in the winter time instead of a nice warm summer day.

I appreciate your gesture of not flipping the bird when your out east I'll do the same when I head west. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: Milestand

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/10/04 11:22 PM

Don't get me wrong, I'm a kithead too, but I think I might understand the mentality behind this lack of preparedness. To me it seems like a kind of optimism - blind optimism to be sure, but the kind of optimism that can carry people through troubled times.

I mean if everyone truly believed that our planetary ecosystem was collapsing and it was caused by our modern energy hog lifestyle, would they still participate in that destruction? I think not. They take the weakly crafted assurances from government that everything's going to turn out just fine, and build their lives around it.

If everyone believed they were truly targets in the bomb sights, would they just keep on, keepin' on? I think not. I believe it is one valid natural response to block from our minds the things in our lives we feel we have no control over.

So, I'm not surprised about the 3 out 4 NYer's stat - to me it seems like a very valid psychological survival strategy for people living in such a vulnerable place. I mean an Altoid tin kit's not going to save each every one of all 10+ million of them...

Posted by: Eugene

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/11/04 02:31 AM

I go by Murphy's law of optimistic preparedness i.e. if I don't have the tool/gear I will need it but if I have the tool/gear I won't. I figure I have about tools stashed in my truck that it will go a million miles before a breakdown <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: bountyhunter

Re: This kind of apathy is pervasive - 03/11/04 04:50 AM

I would never help anyone who suffered conditions I was prepared for if they had "yucked" up my preparedness to humiliate me or demonized my honest concerns.

The way I figure it, if they live, I won't have to tell them "I told you so", and if they die, it was of their own choosing.

This feeling is only for the jerks as I still would help those who were just to dumb to know better.

Bountyhunter
Posted by: bountyhunter

Re: This kind of apathy is pervasive - 03/11/04 04:53 AM

Joegreen:

What makes you think someone like that is smart enough to even have a flashlight handy, let alone fresh or replacement batteries?

Bountyhunter
Posted by: DBAGuy

Re: This kind of apathy is pervasive - 03/11/04 04:58 AM

Wildcard,

If the circumstances were something like a blackout or something not too serious, the jerk would be on his own. If the braying jackass were in danger, I guess I would pull his worthless rear outta the flames - unless it put ME in mortal danger.
Posted by: etehiver

NYC residents asked "What's in your 'Go Bag'?" - 03/11/04 08:24 AM

After 9/11, the Red Cross, NYC Emergency Agencies, and Ad firms came up with some very soft toned (and mildly humorous) public service announcement TV commercials that ran locally. They were titled "What's in your Go Bag"? The "Go Bag" commercials were essentially "teasers" which cajoled viewer into calling a toll-free number for a printed Ready NY Guide, or to visit the city's emergency website.

The commercials were sensitive to local viewer’s reactions. They had to be, especially in the NY local market. Maybe they were too sensitive. I think the message was watered down. To be fair, though, the producers had to be very careful not to scare the public either.

Here is a link to the info they recommended:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/oem/html/readynewyork/ready_guide.html

After 9/11, I considered how I could prepare for my family and myself. I gravitated towards the Red Cross website, then the NYC website, then was amazed at all the info I stumbled upon after Google brought me to this site.

I would be shocked if 1 in forty of my fellow New Yorkers was minimally prepared. I know that many of the helpful people in these forums carry flashlights, and pocketknives everyday as part of their preparedness plan. Some go further with mini-kits etc. I think, however, that if more people in NY and elsewhere were to make even the smallest steps of collecting a few necessities it would go a long way if something serious happened again. Some water, energy bars, radio, and flashlight tucked in a drawer would be a great start for most.

I could not believe how poorly some of my neighbors were prepared during this summer’s subsequent blackout. I was even more surprised to see all the people spending the early hours of the blackout in bars.

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: This kind of apathy is pervasive - 03/11/04 03:18 PM

I simply help as much as they wish - no more. It only generates bad-blood to throw on a dose of "I told you so". Often, folks don't want as much help as they need and in those cases I walk away when they think they are done with me. Unless of course I'm on duty then I make them sign a refusal of treatment form first. I became prepared so that I could survive and so that I might be part of the solution rather than part of the burden. For me it is about makeing the society more resilient. If we are all ready to get on with our lives without disruption in the face of blackouts and terrorist attacks and hurricaines and .... then we have disarmed both the terrorists and the fear-mongering politicians (who wish to strip us of our liberties and dignity at the first opportunity) with one stroke.

Sorry, I slipped into a rant there at the end. Anyway, my point is that if someone needs help then that is just what I have prepared for. I help them and then go about my business. If there are more that need help than there are that can provide help then MCI triage rules come into play. Learn them, use them. Walking wounded - walk, dying - die, the rest get busy with the rest!.

When the crises is past some will ask how I came to be so prepared - I handle this as a simple request for help and I am prepared to tell them to the extent that they want the help (The logic becomes recursive here so start reading from the top again).

Some don't care about my level of preparedness but are grateful for the help - I tell them they are welcome and if they wish to act upon that gratitude they owe it to the next guy down the line to become prepared to help him.

Some aren't even grateful but simply benefit from my help and move on through live un-changed - I know I will be seeing them again in need - The opportunity to help these folks will present itself again and they may be a little more open minded after they have smacked their head into the brick wall of unpreparedness again. If they keep doing the same things they will keep getting the same result.

Some are downright astonished and angered that I didn't prevent this from happening to THEM since they are soo important and I was obviously responsible for them since I was prepared. These will be triaged differently next time.

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/11/04 03:38 PM

Well said. The psychological value of denial is high. As well we must look at the stats. ~3000 people out of 10 million killed by 9/11 vs how many mugged, raped, assualted, killed in NYC / year. Not to mention the casualties due to traffic "accidents" (most of which are totally avoidable if folks would hang up their cell phones, put out their ciggarettes, put down their coffee, finish putting on their mascare before getting into the car, finish reading the newspaper before getting in the car, etc) The global collapse of our environment is something that may be happening but most of us alive will perish from heart disease or cancer long before it becomes a problem that is killing folks. What should the average NYC resident prepare for percentage wise? Should they hit the gym and stay fit enough to outrun the mugger or should they worry about the micro rapelling gear needed to rapell out of the top of a burning tower after a terrorist attack? They are statistically way more likely to need to out run the mugger. We, on this forum, like to consider the scenarios that include us buying some equipment so that we may become equipped to survive. We enjoy assembling gear into little kits. Some of us keep this in perspective and also prepare for the more mundane scenarios and some don't . But to dismiss folks as unprepared because they are unprepared for a 1 in 10,000 chance of being in the wrong place during the next terrorist attack is perhaps a little out of perspective. The folks in France who died because of the blackouts during last summer were verifiably unprepared. The folks in NYC who peaceable went about their business as best they could during last summers blackout may have stumbled in the dark because they didn't have flashlights but they were optimistic enough to get through and perhaps that optimism is all the preparation they needed. After all the preparation of the mind will go further than any gear. I don't mean any nationalistic chest beating here just calling it as I see it. If the blackout in NYC had lasted as long as those in France we very well may have seen the worst of the NYC character show up as riots and other types of lawlessness. Thankfully the power company and the police and other public workers were prepared enough to prevent that.

Preparation must be started at the individual level but an individuals choices need to be guided by the preparations of those around them and the likelyhood of the events for which they are preparing. Am In unprepared, living in rural NH, to not have a gass-mask and a positive pressure, filtered saferoom? It may look that way if someone flies overhead in a crop-duster full of VX but I don't consider that likely enough to worry about. OTOH in my sleepy little town, last year a fellow who wasn't getting along with his wife took off from the local airport in his little cessna and kamikazeed it into the roof of his home while his wife slept. So terrorism from the skies is not unheard of here either.
Posted by: JOEGREEN

Re: This kind of apathy is pervasive - 03/11/04 03:49 PM

Bountyhunter,
You're right, I'm giving him too much credit. <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: M_a_x

Re: This kind of apathy is pervasive - 03/11/04 04:52 PM

Try to express the "told you so" with your body language. Help and display an overly generous attitude. That brings the message clearly over and it makes people feel uncomfortable (this method is not exactly suitable for raising your popularity). When you tell them that you told them so, they usually ignore it.
Posted by: NY RAT

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/12/04 10:18 AM

id agree with the less then 1 in 10 are prepared instead. almost no one i know is prepared or even thinking of it, scary thoughts indeed.

im trying to prepare as best i can ive been doing it on and off (mostly off, unfortunately) since the mid 90s.

none of my friends in my age bracket (30ish) are prepared more then having a couple of bottles of water or maybe a spare flashlight in the house.
its like the us in the early days of aids thinking "something couldnt possibly happen to me".
they are still my friends but i wish they would wise up and prepare in earnest..

its scary to think living in NY/ brooklyn all my life ive lived through 3 YES 3 ! terrorist attacks that could have been fatal.

the first was the world trade center bombing of 94 i was in the area when the bomb went off. i thought it was a small earthquake at first.

people forget about the attempted terroist bombing of the subway lines in brooklyn in 97, they said when caught these guys had enough explosives to take out a block in each direction.
i lived less then half a block away when it happened.

luckily i slept late on 9-11 and didnt go into the city like i planned. sadly several people my family knew that didnt.

during the blackout last year atleast i had stocked up on batteries, crank radio candles and the like.
so i helped hand out cups of water to those coming out of the local train station who needed it.

for those of you who know store owners, encourage them to invest in an old fashioned register. if more had them inthe black out alot less food would have spoiled from just sitting there.

so yes i prepare as much as my very limited budget lets me, but call me paranoid i just feel i need to move faster, and im always playing catch up.
Posted by: frenchy

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/12/04 11:43 AM

Quote:
The folks in France who died because of the blackouts during last summer


Which blackouts are talking about ??

Maybe you are confusing with last summer's disaster : thousands of dead people, due to a long heat wave and lack of preparation for this situation.

And it's true that, for the same reason, we were not far away from blackouts ; just an inch away ....

There has been a blackout, but in northern Italy and maybe one in Great Britain (not sure).
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/12/04 01:43 PM

My mistake. Yes, I was referring to the heat wave though I thought it was accompanied by a blackout which increased the lethality through loss of air conditioning. Perhaps it was just a lack of air conditioning in general. Though folks can live through heat waves if they stay in shade and drink plenty of water instead of wine even without airconditioning.
Posted by: frenchy

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/12/04 02:07 PM

Quote:
accompanied by a blackout which increased the lethality through loss of air conditioning

Not AFAIK....
But for next summer, EDF (our national electricity provider) fears that an increased usage of numerous low-cost air conditioners could cause blackouts, if such a situation again arises. (a huge number of the cheaper machines having been sold).

Quote:
drink plenty of water instead of wine


Most of the time, lack of hydration caused death (older people or allready ill people mainly); The fact is many of these people didn't think / were not told / were not helped to drink more.... water or whatever ....
Posted by: ScottRezaLogan

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/12/04 04:55 PM

This Lapse in Preparedness Reminds me of a Line from a Jackson Browne song of the Late 70s-Early 80s. (Boulevard). I Paraphrase First and then I Quote. -' Everyone just Walks on By " Like They're Safe or Something!" Complete with the Way he Says Such! Kinda like Sheep in these Suppossedly New Times and Circumstances, They Stand Around just Looking at the Ball, Set Out Before Them!, and Saying "Dah!?" Rather than Picking It Up!, and Running It Down a Personal Preparedness Field! This is of course No "Dah" Time or Matter! There's a Certain Preparedness Ball to Pick Up!, -Hello!?

Perhaps a Way of Getting this Onto some of their Radar Screens, or their To Do Lists, would be to Present It sort of as the " 5 Most Important Things!". Or the "Five Musts!".

It's Very Back Burner on Many People's Scales!, that is, When and Where, -or If, -It's even on their Stovetop at All!

A Floor in One's House is Very Low Priority Back Burner Matter too! That is, Until it just May sometime Collapse Under someone!

(Porch and Deck Collapses, for example. Nobody, or Hardly Anyone anyway, Thinks of the Porch Itself! When such Collapses Happen. Regardless of whether this be Due to Aging Old Workmanship, or to Shoddy, Substandard, Modern Day Workmanship. But When such Collapses Do Occur!, -The State of that Porch!, or Lack Thereof!, -Suddenly Moves Up onto that Front Burner! And Becomes a Most Immeadiate Priority and Concern!, -Shud any given "You" be the One Who's On!, -Such a Porch that Suddenly Gives Way in Collapse! Survival and Preparedness is Of Course Like That!, as Well!)

Then this Long Forgotten Pot Out Back, -Suddenly Moves to the Front Burner!

And It Could be Mortally Perilous!, or Otherwise Dangerous or Disadvantageous!

Likewise, Survival and Emergency Prep is of course like that!, -Across it's Board!

The Least of People's Concerns Suddenly Become the Greatest! For What Duration they so be Enstuckened In.

Though Often Rare and Unlikely, -It *Can* Happen to You!

So at Least for the Definite and Dangerous, if Dim, -Possibility of This ever Coming About!, -People in General shud Become at Least Minimally Familiar and Prepared!

People will Woo and Rue the Day then!, when they once Pooh Poohed and Passed Over Such Preps, as Suppossedly such a Small to Non-Existant Matter! "Back When They Had the Chance!"

And so Perhaps something like "The Five Most Importants!" or "The Five Musts!", could be Instrunmental Towards Getting their Foot somewhat into the Survivi-Prep Door! With some of the General "PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER." Anyway!

If or Until Then!, -All Too Many Sheepedly Walk on By Like they're Safe or Something!!! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]ScottRezaLogan[/email]
Posted by: bountyhunter

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared-Air Conditioning - 03/12/04 05:24 PM

Frenchy:

I am an Certified HVAC-R (Heating, Ventilating, Air Conditioning, and Refrigeration.) technician here in the United States of America.

We have brand new 5,000 BTU air conditioners selling here in Wisconsin for as little $79.00 US. They are high quality, with rotary compressors and are very energy efficient.

I am sure that similar air conditioners are available in the Europeon continent. Do not let your power companies try to tell you it is your country mens fault if they use air conditioning. It is merely poor planning by the power companies as in the United States, we have laws that allow power companies to cut off electrical usage to large companies in times of emergency such as your heat wave.

I am also a caretaker for my elderly mother and was a caretaker for my father until he passed away March 5, 2004. My father did not want to drink fluids because he feared messing himself because of the constant need to urinate. My mother and I did the best we could to make him drink to no avail. I had to take him to the hospital 3 times just to have him hydrated with an IV because he refused to take in fluids. I suspect a lot of older people have that fear and probably refuse sufficient intake of fluids because of pride and the fear of losing bladder control and messing themselves.

Get the sick and elderly air conditioners, modify the laws of electical distribution and usage, and make people comfort mandatory in emergencies like heat waves.

Good luck!

Bountyhunter
Posted by: JOEGREEN

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared-Air Conditioning - 03/12/04 08:31 PM

Bountyhunter,
Sorry about your loss. The same thing happened to my dad in the last 2 weeks of his life. He was battling cancer, but I'm sure the dehydration and refusal to drink water hastened his passing. Hang in there.
Posted by: bountyhunter

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared-Air Conditi - 03/13/04 04:04 AM

Joegreen:

Unfortunately his refusal of sufficient amounts of liquids was more like 18 months old. I know it took its toll on him because you could see it in the loss of elasticity of the skin, and yes it did hasten his end. He was 90 years old and had outlived his brothers and sisters, but you still always hate to say it was his time.

He spent the last 3+ months of his life in a hospital and nursing home and suffered from the massive sores he acquired from being on his back unable to heal due to lack of calories ingested (the family decided no feeding tube would be used.). Thank God and the medical community for modern pain killers.

Thank you for the kind words.

Bountyhunter
Posted by: ScottRezaLogan

Re: One in Four New Yorkers Unprepared - 03/13/04 04:07 AM

A Major Difference between the European and U.S. Power Supply / Air Conditioning Situation, -Is that Much of Europe is on the Cool Side, including Summers, wheras Much of my own Country's Summers are Not.

Air Conditioning is thereby such a Large and Everyday Part of our Picture around here. While Much of Europe, Usually Getting Cooler Summers to begin with, Hasn't had this Need. It's therefore Not a Part of their Picture!, It Hasn't "Entered into Europe's Calculations."

True, It is well within the Means of many Europeans to have Air Conditioners, and I'm Sure that Many of them do. And Not just in the Atypically Hotter Mediterranean South.

But their Whole General Power System Setup, Isn't Ready for a Large, Long, and Persistent Heat Wave! While our's Already is "Set Up" for a Lot of this, when a Heat Wave Happens to U.S.

In Much of (Cooler) Europe, a Strong Heat Wave can be a Straw that Breaks a "Power Supply's Back"!

I'm Not Knowledgeable on Electric Power Supplies. But I Do know how Much of Europe is Predominantly Cooler. This is a Strong, Reasonable Impression, that I get. As relates to Electrical Power considerations.

This is Toward Mentioning of this Angle of it all, to our Forum Mates in General. I Sure that you, Frenchy, are already Well Familiar with this. So I'm Not specifically Telling this to you.

But Many Others around the World may Not be so Aware! Lest a False Equality be Suggested, I want to make mention of this Angle too.

Much of Europe typically is Much Cooler than we! Our Much More Usual Hot is Not Only Not Entered into Europe's typical, overall Calculations, but Many a Typical, Average European is Very Unaccustomed to Major Heat Waves too. Thus the High Number who either Succumbed, or were Adversely Affected by it. [color:"black"] [/color] [email]frenchy[/email]