Compasses revisited

I know there have been several threads on compasses in the past. I did several searches and still have a "selection" question. I've basically narrowed my choices to one of two, both Brunton Eclipse series.

One is the 8099 PRO ECLIPSE

And the other is the simpler baseplate 8096 GPS ECLIPSE

I'm usually a "car camper," as Tom calls my breed <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, and have moderate skills orienting a map and compass using a baseplate compass. However, this summer, I'm heading into the mountains for two week of backpacking with the scouts at Philmont Scout Range in New Mexico. From what I understand, the trails are fairly well marked but do change from time-to-time and are open to interpretation. So map reading and compass skills are essential for the crew. We plan on doing some extensive work in this are this spring. Coincidentally, my old baseplate compass broke, so it's an opportune time to evaluate my needs.

1. Should I stick with the baseplate model or step up (at twice the cost) to a lensatic and learn how to use it (and teach the boys). Or...

2. Stick with the less expensive baseplate model with which that I'm much more familiar and comfortable?

3. There's another baseplate model, the 8097 ECLIPSE, that has a more ergonomic design, but lakes the UTM scales that the 8096 GPS ECLIPSE offers. I haven't used UTM at all, but it seems like now would be as good a time as any to teach this old dog a new trick.

Garrett biased opinion:

I would go with the simple baseplate model. I have been using a SIlva Explorer for years. I love how simple it is and it hasnt let me down yet. I have had a few lensatic compasses (both issued and owned( and I prefer the protractor/baseplate model. I even use it in the field. The only thing I cant use it for is to get direction in mils, but for scouts thats not an issue. I like the GPS model you showed, as I use GPS pretty heavily for driving and going on foot, but I always back it up with a map and compass, as I have lost signal before. The GPS model allows you to quickly plot your location on your map for resection or intersection.

So after I spew my opinion, it boils down to what you are comfortable with. If you have been using your baseplate, and you are pretty good at it, I would stick with it. That way you wont have to worry about learing about the new compass and possibly having an issue with it while you have your boys out in the bush with you.

Good luck,

Garrett

The lensatic model is better if you want to use it for triangulation as you can get a good bearing. In the scenario you described the simple baseplate model is most probably preferable. I prefer the baseplate type because map work is much easier with it. I use a Recta baseplate compass I bought more than 10 years ago and it´s still my favorite.
When narrowed to your selection I´d take the GPS model. The scales are a big advantage when your maps also have an UTM grid. I prefer compass models with lines that assist in aligning the capsule and the baseplate with the grid of the map. In many cases this makes taking bearings from the map easier.
Don´t worry about learning the use of the UTM grid. It´s no big deal.
Of course this may be a bit biased but I hope it helps anyway.

I agree with the baseplate approach. You should note that the Brunton 8099 and a Silva or Suunto baseplate function differently for map use. The Silva/Suunto designs have grid lines on the rotating capsule which makes some aspects of map work easier (IMO), the Brunton does not.

I have the Brunton 8099 and have liked it very much.....except every time it has gone above 8000" it developed a massive bubble which because it uses a rotating compass disk, made the compass unusable (disk would not turn).

Both times Brunton replaced the capsule, but I do not trust this compass at altitude anymore. BTW none of my Suunto or Silva's developed these bubbles on these trips, and even if they did, both use needles not disks so would have functioned.

Brunton assures me that the new liquids are more stable at altitude and temperature variations.

I would make my decision ASAP. I watched a recent program about recent changes in the Earth's core. I thought we were a dead planet by commercial break. Then they explained past similar phenomenon occured previous to the periodic reversal of the magnetic field. Our children's, children's, children will experience multiple poles and Northern Lights. Eventually the field will again stabilise with S as N and vis a vis. I miss everything <img src="images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />. I concur with using a known system while teaching. Winging it makes one invariably look silly. Knowledge of multiple systems is fascinating, but redundancy less an issue than firemaking. Then again, I once got lost in a christmas tree lot <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. I hugged a Noble Fir until my nephew found me <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Chris, it's worse than you think. <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> The earth's magnitic pole is quickly drifting north, approx 40km/yr., through the Canadian arctic and will end up in Siberia in a few decades!

NASA had a very informative article on this subject, Earth's Inconstant Magnetic Field . It also discusses the periodic magnetic pole flip-flop and the gradual weakening of our magnetic field.

Compass makers better be prepared. Here's an image of the magnetic fields today and what it might look like during a reversal.



How would you set declination then???? <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Here's a link to a review I did some time back comparing the Eclipse with Ranger model compasses. Just scroll up to the top of the page:

Brunton Eclipse vs. Ranger Type Compass

(BTW, I also had to have the capsule replaced on my Eclipse but have had no problem up to 5,000+ feet since.)

The posts regarding bubbles at altitude have really caught my attention since "base camp" is at 6,000 ft. and the highest peak is 12,400 ft. I don't know yet whether we'll assail any of the mountains on our trek (selection info comes next month), but even just the base camp is higher than the altatudes that have casued problems in the past. I'd would be really ticked off if my compassed failed on the trail! (We'll have backups, plus my button compass in my PSK).

I'll take the time to see what the manufacture's comments will be if I ask about performance above 12,000 ft. And I'll look around at other compasses too.

The bubble issue is a very important one because the compass card cannot turn freely with a large bubble in the Brunton design. However the Brunton's have some unique operating characteristics. The Eclipse's way of placing the circle over the card is not only very intuitive but accurate and easy, so do not dismiss the Brunton designs. I still use my Eclipse on all trips out here where it will not be going to high altitude as I find it a very nice compass. But next summer when I go back to Montana and I know it will be going to 10,000' it will be going but will not be my main compass. It will be going to test the new capsule. Somehow the Silva and Suunto compasses have avoided the bubbles and Silva now owns Brunton, so I have hope that the new capsule may make it this time.

Blues review is well worth reading BTW.

Willie,

Hey, I've lost two Silva Rangers to bubbles going from here to 13,000 - 14,000+ ft. One was well used and had made many trips well above those elevations over the years - no idea why it developed the bubble, but most of the time afield it was hung around my neck under my shirt rather than in a pouch or pocket. The 2nd one didn't even survive one trip. The one I now have is doing great. I *suspect* that these failed ones were invisibly "damaged" by getting squeezed/crushed thus allowing a minute crack to develop and have taken more care with the latest one - well, a little more care, anyway. Or maybe it was just lack of QC <shrug> who knows?

If you DO get a big bubble in the field, you may decide to drill two small holes into the capsule with your SAK and drain out the fluid - the compass needle will take longer to stop moving but it will be accurate. I wouldn't worry about your compass capsule for this trip if I were you - you'll do fine.

Tom

Bear in mind (as if it's not confusing enough) that Silva (of Sweden) markets their compasses in the USA under the Nexus brand. (As previously mentioned, they also own Brunton of Riverton, Wyoming.)

The "Silva" compasses marketed under that brand name in the USA are actually made by Suunto. (All this is a result of prior contracts and legal obligations concerning the exclusive marketing rights of Silva (Sweden) compasses in the USA.)

I would also stick with a baseplate model, for all the reasons listed by others, but also for training the scouts. If you have a super gizmo compass, and all they have is a plain old BS baseplate, when they have trouble finding their location (and they will) , they will rationalize that it is all the fault of their compass. They will be sure that if they had the super duper one you have, all would be a snap...

Thanks to all who have replied. Once again I am reminded why this forum is so different and useful.

I have decided to stick with the baseplate model and am leaning towards a needled compass instead of the Eclipse. Although I have sent Brunton customer service an email asking their opinion in the max. altitude they recomend for their product. I will share their reply with the list. My inclination is to not bother and chance it. After all, what good is the promise for a replacement capsule midway througH A 12 day trek when I'm standing atop of Mt. Baldy at 12,440 ft.?

Here's their reply:

"Bill,
You should have no problems using the Eclipse at high altitude. There were some manufacturing changes to help eliminate bubble problems which are unfortunately inherent in the compass industry. I should mention two factors to consider, If a bubble did develop, the compass is still accurate and usable. Second, all of our compasses have lifetime warranties against bubbles as long as there is no physical damage, you would only have to pay the $5 for return shipping. Feel free to contact me with any other questions.
Best Regards,
Andy "