Flashlight Options - Surefire ?

I'm looking at buying a "pocket spotlight" .... particularly been looking at the Surefire E2e or the 6P...

however, I've read a couple threads where people have had problems with their Surefire.
Which Surefire do people like better (E2e or 6P)? If neither, what flashlight do you use?

Bounty-Hunter

I am certain this answer will likely spark great debate just like comparing guns, knives and meatloaf recipes. I have one of the very same Surefire 6P models you are seeking information about. I bought mine about 14 years ago when they first appeared on the Law Enforcement market. I was working as a patrolman for an agency at that time and was looking to replace an aging 5-D cell KEL-LITE duty flashlight. Believe me the old KEL-LITES was very popular amongst police officers just about everywhere. They proceeded the Streamlights and Mag-Lites by quite a few years. Unfortunately; they like the Streamlight and Mag-lite were very bulky and heavy. I received the KEL-LIGHT as my main duty flashlight when my “old training Sgt.” found out all I had was a 2-D Cell “borrowed” Mag-light. The main reason for replacing the Kel-Light was the age, abuse and bulk. Nothing can abuse a flashlight more than public safety work. <img src="images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> So, having said that, I want to pass on what I know about the Surefire 6P.

PROS: Good solid lightweight flashlight with claimed ability to be submersible, though I have not tried to accomplish that task. Weighs a mere 5 ounces with batteries.

Very Bright- I have known officers to actually temporarily blind a suspect or an inmate who was “charging” toward them. Easily lights a jail cell or interior of a car. Came with a warning to not look directly into the light when on.

Easily slides into a hip pocket, a coat pocket, or in a thigh cargo pocket. Also incorporates well on an officer’s duty belt.

Decreases liability if used as a “tactical defensive light.” Basically, you should not use this light for this purpose.


CONS: Expensive—Though I have seen the 6P on sale for $34.00, The average price is around $56.00 (USD) After 14 years and several other styles using the same batteries one would think the price would have dropped significantly. This is just not the case.

Batteries—Also expensive and were not long lasting. While the Lithium technology is great and storage is about 10 years (Again, I have not tried to verify this!) replacing 2 costs about $5.25-$7.25 (USD) apiece and the batteries only last about 1 to 1.5 hours maximum. Again, with the proliferation of flashlights and cameras using the CR123 battery technology the price should have come down. In my experience this is not the case.

Bulb replacement—Basically, the bulb and reflector must be replaced. I have done this twice. At $14.95 (USD) this is an expensive ordeal as well.

Momentary On/Off tailcap switch. In a pocket, or even a duty belt carrier, simple bending and compressing the leg can activate the switch. I have known cases of burnt leather (stinky) holsters (kind with the flap) and pants pockets to almost burn when this happens; not to mention the burned skin. Surface gets very hot to the touch after a couple of minutes. Which is warning number 2.

Twist on tailcap switch—Not a positive on/off push “click” style switch, which I prefer, but a twisting on (compressing a spring) switch. I have actually twisted too far then inverted the light heads up for holster placement and had the tailcap come off. Try finding the parts in the dark on asphalt (mine is black) and while the rain is pouring!

Cannot be used as a “tactical defensive light.” In the past some police officers have used their flashlights as an “extra” baton. My initial training actually covered using the flashlight as a defensive baton. I don’t recommend this as several lawsuits have proven this to be nothing more than using a “lead-pipe.”


OVERALL: Well ok, in all fairness, I would like to mention a couple of things. While the cons outweigh the pros, this flashlight is now riding along in my briefcase as a secondary light source. It is very wise to have a back up. BTW I carry the light in its original box with the batteries out.
The flashlight did actually find good use as a duty light for 4 solid years by me and 1-½ years by a friend after I had left full time law enforcement. The lightweight spoke volumes. Especially when on a dayshift and trying to secure a dark warehouse for the weekend; this light was there as opposed to not having any light.

Would I recommend this light? Yes and No. Depending upon your application. Daily Law Enforcement, EMS, Fire, or even SAR (public safety) work then NO I would not due to maintenance cost alone. If you plan on using the light around camp or even on a hike, then again NO! There again I cite the cost and the "burn" time. Storing the light and using it in an emergency, then YES! As a back up, or secondary source, then YES!

If you really are set on this light, then I recommend the rechargeable battery option, which I am considering myself. After at least 8 battery replacements you will have paid for this option and then saved more money. This option would clearly extend the capabilities of the light to full time use.


Hope this helps,

Stargazer

ASAP = Always Suspicious, Always Prepared

AS EDC, I carry 2 Photon3 (white and red) and a Surefire 6P.

Mainly, I agree with Stargazer analyzis.
I would just add the following points :

- basically, yes, it's an expensive light.

- it is supposed to be very rugged, but I have been very disappointed when the bulb died after a (less than) 2 inches drop !!! And a replacement head assy is not cheap !

- some years ago, I bought a Maglite (3 cells) to put in my rucksack. I rapidly leave at home, because it was so heavy. The 6P is much brighter and lighter to carry. Hence, my EDC carry. On the waist belt of my rucksack, I have another Surefire, the G2 Nitrolon, along with a - mandatory -spare carrier (bulb assy + batteries).

- rechargeable models : could be nice to save batteries price if you REALLY use it long enough, every day. BUT ..... I also bought several 8NX, for myself and as gifts .... Big disappointement ! <img src="images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
--- First, because it was a bad choice, not having a REAL use for those.
--- Second, because of the questionnable quality of the rechargeable Surefire batteries. <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Yes, Surefire send me two replacement B90 (free ! .. but the Customs fees were as expensive as the batteries themselves !!!), wich proved to be marginally better than the original ones ... Among 6 or more batteries I have, only one is as good (runtime wise) as it is supposed to be. And they don't keep the charge very long (a few days).
So, you have to be lucky and get good rechargeable batteries (or buy special "clones", made by KLK) and you have to REALLY use them on a daily basis, emptying one battery while another one is charging.
--- if your use is more something like "I need to have a pocket spotlight at hand, and be sure it will light up when I need it - which is not very often", then stick with the CR123 models (6P, G2 etc..). You should be able to buy (may be bulk) batteries for a much better price (1.25$ on Surefire web site .... and you can find better prices) ;
--- Most friends I gave an 8NX, I took it back and replaced it with a Stinger Scorpion :
------ first, because they didn't REALLY needed the rechargeable models ; what they occasionnally needed, was a bright light, with long life lithium batteries.
------ second, because, the prefocused beam was NOT necessary for them ; it was even an hindrance : for close work, the ability to adjust the focus (and so lessen the illumination) is nice ; and the Scorpion has it. I personnaly prefer to keep the prefocused beam of the 6P, and use my Photon3 for really close work.

- If you want to lessen the Price Impact on your wallet, the G2 Nitrolon may be a good choice. Or the Scorpion, with its own specifications (spare bulb included, NO prefocused beam).


My 2 cents ......

Alain

P.S. : may be the quality problem with Surefire rechargeable batteries is solved, by now.... I don't know. Visit specialised forums ....

CR123 batteries HAVE come down in price - a LOT - check out Surefires price on them - I think it's about $1.50 now

6P - pros - more accessories, and you can get the High Output Lamp Assembly
Cons - Larger than the E2E, more expensive

E2E - pros - smaller, lighter less expensive. The "standard" bulb is about the same brightness as the Low Out Lamp of the 6p - that said, you can get an even lower output lamp - much longer run time

That said - I no longer edc my E2!!! (Not E2E). I rarely need that kind of throw, and it was my only unit that NEEDED CR123s. I've switched to an ARC-LS LED light with a 2AA pack. The main reasons for the switch? I'm trying to get down to 1 type of battery for my edc. I love my E2, but it sits on a hook next to my rear door if I really need it

Well, the original question was about a "pocket spotlight"...
so I guess a LED system is not what BountyHunter is looking for ...

Or did I wrongly translate "spotlight" ??




Alain

BH,

Stargazers points are all correct. I think that your flashlight selection should fit your uses. Surefire lights are primarily targeted as combat lights (although they are trying to branch out), for use by military, law enforcement and individuals who carry firearms. They tend to focus on light output at the expense of batter duration. In a combat role, this is as it should be.

I own several Surefire lights, and they have never let me down. I just purchased an M2, and will probably use the high output lamp, which produces 120 lumens. It also eats batteries. But the only time I will carry it is in a self defense capacity, and not too many conflicts last 20 minutes. So it suits its purpose.

For daily carry I actually use a Streamlight Twin Task (single battery). It isn't as small as my E2, but with the LED option as well the battery life is something like 8 hours. I really like having the ability to switch between LED and halogen. You can get LEDs for the Surefire's, if you want more battery life and less light. Streamlights are also alot cheaper than Surefires.

So, if you are looking at a combat light, you can't do better than Surefire IMHO. If you are looking for a EDC utility light, there are probably better options out there for you.

Have fun shopping!

Greg

Hmm as my only beam throwing light I really wanted to get Surefire but they were too expensive for me. At about the same time I was lookign toi take a plunge on Surfire, Pelican released their M6 light. I got it since it was about $40 and came with all the accesories I needed. Now I don't see a difference between Pelican and Surefire in functionality. They both have similar flaws: accidental power on, batteries, battery life, bulb light and getting hot. At first I used it quite often but now it rest in my pack. I mean it was great during blackout and camping but I find LED powered lights to be better. Inova X5, X1 and Arc LS are my primary tools.

Matt

I've carried a 6P daily for a year now... It's a great light, rides easily in my back pocket, and is powerful enough for anything I've needed it for - volunteer fire/rescue/EMS, taking the dogs out at night, looking under the car, desk or whatever. I use it just about every day. I'm on about my 6th set of batteries, so I'm replacing them about every other month. As mentioned, surefire sells batteries for $15/dozen.

All said and done, I highly recommend the 6P for an EDC light.

~Wesley

Ah, an ARC LS is a pocket floodlight - the beam is slightly braoder than the surefire - not quite as much throw as the E2, but then again, I have a low dome. If you look at LED lights like the Surefire L4 - they are pocket spotlights

Then again, they cost more than the E2 <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

oooops... thanks for the info.


Alain

If you want a quality pocket spotlight without dumping a lot of cash, get the SureFire G2 Nitrolon, available for around $30 in the U.S. You get all the light of the 6P, lighter weight, more color options, a high-output lamp option, and many say that the Nitrolon body is actually more shock resistant than the aluminium 6P.

Not a bad package for $30.

I will put in my vote in for the Surefire L4. Great LED pocket spotlight. Pete

I picked up an LSH premium from Arc's website for $50 on the seconds deal they had recently. This is an incredible flashlight! They also sell the CR-123 batteries for $1 each in packs of 5.

Thanks for everyone's input!

What I'm really wanting is a light that is really bright, small, lightweight, can fit in pocket or on a belt so I can carry it around everyday, with a rugged indestructible construction. I don't want to worry about it breaking, so I prefer a metal body.

As for LED vs regular bulb, I'm not as concerned at battery life since I can carry a 2nd set with me. I also prefer onebthat uses AA or CR123 for battery standardization with other gear.

That's why I'm leaning towards Surefire with the 6P leading over E2e due to the high 120 lumens bulb capability.

Am I correct that most of you Surefire users have 6P over E2e ?

You won't break a SF G2, believe me. The Nitrolon (proprietary polymer) is the same stuff they make their Weaponlights out of--for the M15/AR15, Remington 870 shotgun, etc.

I have a vintage 6P (about 15 years old), a newer G2 (less than a year), & brand new C2 (2 months), which I carry every day in a SF V70 belt holster (though the C2 has a belt clip, too). SF has the batteries for $15/dozen, plus shipping, which isn't too bad. it beats the heck out of $3 or $4 each at WalMart or Target.

They do have lock-out tail cap assemblies (extra cost option on the G2, but standard on everything else), which solves the "Hey, my side's getting hot--oops, my light is on" problem. (BTDT!)

While it's true they can't be used as a baton like larger Maglites, they can indeed be used as impact weapons. They even offer a toothed bezel for some of the combat lights to increase striking power.

If I'm wearing clothes, I have at least a Photon light on me; if I'm dressed to leave the house, I have a SureFire on me, either on my belt, around my neck (lanyard), or in a pocket. Like a good locking folder, I don't leave home without it.

There are other good lights available, but for my money, SureFire is the best. They're the ones doing the innovating; everyone else seems to be playing catch-up.

You might check out CandlePowerForums for more info.

Good luck.

David

I have both 6Ps and E2 SureFires. I daily carry the E2 due to size and have my 6Ps now reserved in my CERT kits. I have both 120 and 60 lumen lamps for the 6P, but be warned it eats a set of batteries in 20+minutes at 120 lumens.

I have the NiCad pack and extension for my 6Ps which I use when I know I want a strong light for a known purpose, these do not work as storage lights though as the packs discharge over time.

I also carry an Inova X5, which also takes CR123A Lithiums and it is my preferred light for most uses. Plenty bright, conservative of the batteries, waterproof and durable.

My E2 is reserved as an escape light carried On-body. I prefer the E2 to the 6P as a carry light that is not used much but carried for emergency use.

I have a couple of the Pelican M6 lights, and really like them. I think they've got a nice form factor, and are sturdy lights. The switch can be modified to become a click on, click off with momentary on (I'm told this takes some elbow grease - I've been able to buy mine used, with the clickie already installed).

Flashlightlens.com offers the "clickie mod" mechanism - not sure who else might have it.
Pelican clickie

The replacement lamps are cheaper than Surefire's - they're about $5 each at brightguy.com, and I'm sure you can find them elsewhere, too.

Replacement lamps

I've read on Candlepowerforums that the Pelican M6 has slightly better throw than comparable Surefire lights - but I don't have any Surefires to compare it to. Based on the comparisons I've read on CPF, and owning a couple, I'd say the Pelican M6 is a good-value, sturdy light.
My .02
Dave

I would definitely recommend the Pelican M6 - it has a longer throw (and slightly more overall output) than the Surefires with 60-75 min battery life, the bulbs seem to last forever (I've read 70-80 hours bulb life) and replacement bulbs are only about $6 (compare to $15 or more for Surefire), and includes a neat belt holster with a ring on the bottom to prevent accidental activation. It's my primary EDC light, along with a small keychain LED and a MiniMag with an Opalec LED conversion for those situations demanding more "gentle" illumination <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If you're really looking for the 100+ lumen output, then you might want to look at the Streamlight TL-3. I ordered one a few days ago and should have it next week. It uses 3 lithium batteries (so it's about an inch longer than most of the usual 2 battery lights, about 6.25" overall) but you get a full 175 lumens for an hour (versus 20 mins for the upgraded Surefire bulb).

If you're going for a rechargable, I'd say the Streamlight Stinger is the way to go, as they can be had for well under $100, and only about 7 inches long (unfortunately the added length comes with the rechargable territory due to thenature of NiCd rechargables...). The Stinger XT has the tactical-style tailcap switch (as opposed to the side pushbutton), and the Stinger HP has a larger head ("turbo-head") which results in longer throw - same overall light output, but more throw. Then if you want to fry an egg with your flashlight there's the 11 inch long Ultra Stinger <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As for batteries, they can be had on the internet for a little over a dollar apiece - surefire.com is selling them for $1.25 each in boxes of 12, although if you look around you can find various warehouses selling them at comparable or even lower prices.

You can find reviews of all these flashlights, as well as neat charts comparing the specs at www.flashlightreviews.com .

Hope this helps,
Jeremy