What's the point of the personal sirvival kit?

I just put one together and several folks I know are questioning the value of having things like needles, thread, candle, safety pins etc. in the kit. To be honest, I felt a bit embarrsed when one person commented on my new kit and here I spent a few days on it.

You really need to learn how to use the stuff in your kit. Do some reading; Doug has recommended some great books. Your needle and thread can be used to sew a button on or used for stitches (just make sure the thread is not in to long because the wound will heal around the thread and it wont come out and it hurts really bad trying to pull it out J) safety pins have too many uses to count. I learned of a new one the other day. (If you have to perform rescue breathing to a victim who has a broken neck and your by yourself the book I was reading said to safety pin the victims tough to their lip to keep it from blocking the air way). Your candle will help light damp wood, provide light, and in a snow cave will increase the temperature a few degrees.

I don’t seal my kit and I carry all kinds of stuff in it that I on a regular basis. Like chap stick, tweezers, Tylenol and antacid. Other stuff I hope I never use, but I feel better knowing there in my pocket. If your embarrassed about you kit don’t show any one but don’t stop carrying it!

I remember as a boy Kennedy speaking to the nation about missiles in Cuba. My parents spent the unheard of sum of $80 dollars at the grocery store. Today across the US many older homes have these real funny storage rooms built like bomb shelters. In "Tornado Alley," Those quaint monuments to another enemy and means of survival are still viable against a different threat. That $80 wouldn't go very far today.The memory and lesson has. A PSK is not a universal panacea for every calamity. In extreme circumstances it is Just enough to get by;no less and no more. In daily use, you and your object of curiosity and derision are going to become a resource for little emergencies. That is going to instill in you a conscious mindset of being minimally prepared 24/7 and a degree of leadership.The guy with the candle or flashlight always goes down a darkened stairway first by default. Never be embarressed. The simplest kit of humble items makes you a survival Tyranosaurus Rex. The people making ill informed comments are just fence lizards.

Very well put, Chris. Hope you're holding up OK out there in California.

You should be proud of it as you obviously spent a lot of time on it. I’m sure that we here all are proud of ours.

Its works well to lay down the character you are.
The first night on a sailing ship I was with 12 strangers sitting around a big table having had a meal and everyone sipping their wine. I noticed one guy (Miles) had his whole belt covered with pouches containing Leathermans, Victorinox’s, Zippo’s, Maglights and what not. We obviously had something to talk about…I got my PSK out and explained every bit. The whole table started to listen. They seemed impressed, in between all the [censored] taking that is.
But it was a great night and for the next 16days I was known as “SAS man” <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Reinhardt

Many of us may never use our kits in a true survival situation. But we at least know and have the confidence that we have tools and supplies that may help us survive in a variety of unfortunate circumstances.

Many of the components in a PSK are not one-dimensional, meaning that our human ingenuity can adapt most of the items for a whole range of unforeseen circumstance. You may use the needle and thread to sew on buttons. Or you may use it to help dig out a festering splinter. Or you may magnetize the needle and float it on a small leaf in a puddle to find magnetic north. Or you may use it to dig out some dirt that caked up on your Spark-lite when you dropped in the mud. The possibilities are bountiful.

Instead of shrugging your shoulders at their comments and turn their questioning back at them, "What would you use a needle for in survival/emergency situation.” Those that are doubting you obviously have not given it a thought. Some may respond to such a challenge and rise to the occasion. Others may not. Of course these will be the ones that will be looking for someone else to save their butts in an emergency rather than being able to help themselves.

There are many lessons you can learn at this web site, both from the content and from the forum participants. But I think I have learned two great survival truisms.

1. Your greatest survival tool is your brain.
2. Practice survival techniques before you need them.

Welcome to ETS and good luck. BTW, you won't anyone here questioning the value of your kit. Nor will anyone here belittle your ideas and questions. So don't hold back and jump right into the forum!

I believe I read your posting on another forum.

I too was a bit suprised at the number of people on that site who felt it was not needed, particularly since it is a survivial oriented forum.

What I saw as the most prevelant comment was a PSK was not needed for daily carry in an urban environment. They saw the use in a wilderness but not an urban environment.

This forum is kit friendly and will support your need to build and carry kits.

Exactly. My kit is really much more convenience or comfort related. Still weighs a ton, though.

My EDC includes both a true survival kit and many convenience items. My hope is to never have to use the survival kit but I would not feel prepared if I found myself in a true emergency without it. The survival risks that I face vary from day to day and having a layered kit approach allows me to customize a bit but I still carry the basics for every situation. Shelter, fire, water.

In an urban situation that may come to an umbrella, mini-bic and 1 liter spring water. I usually carry significantly more. If I am heading into a circumstance where I may be abruptly deposited into a situation where I can't expect to reach a building within a days walk (flight over wilderness, long drive in the country, hike in the woods, etc.) I carry minimally tarp, poncho, space blanket combination for shelter and some puritabs for water and some backup for my backup for fire and tinder spark-lite, mini-bic, storm-proof matches - tinder-quick, cigars, lint, hand-sanitizer. In most situations I will be carrying my trusty Altoids PSK and a similar sized FAK as the base layer for the layering system. I have found that in any pleat front pants I have the altoids tins fit comfortably in the front pockets, one on each side I don't wear tight fitting jeans so they fit in those pockets as well. With an altoids tin in the pocket the Wave fits vertically right beside it and nothing shifts or becomes uncomfortable. Though my wave usually rides the belt in it's leather sheath. I don't bother with the tool adapter since I really don't see the need to be tinkering with mechanical stuff in a survival situation. The tool adapter rides in the vehicle. If I am in the vehicle I may need it.

Man you ARE equipped.

My biggest problem is trying to carry both convenience items -- FAK, small gear in a small bag, radio, and maybe a Wave -- ALONG WITH eye goggles, particle masks, leather gloves, and a mini-prybar (this stuff eats space like you wouldn't believe). Every time I try it, my system totally breaks down.

My work briefcase holds my leather shoulder bag which contains the conveneince items. I put everything else in a small plastic shopping bag. Trying to get everything in one bag is a headache.

Ah, I see it now. We prepare for different scenarios. I work in a 1 story building with an exit within 20 yards of my cube. I don't attempt to carry the bulky "dig out of the rubble" gear that you seem to need. Further I have a center punch in my vest pocket and a window within 5 feet which is perfectly adequate egress. The surrounding area outside is a LARGE car-park and accross the street is a conservation area of a few hundred acres. I am not exactly downtown at work or at home. I suppose that if I were to prepare for evac from a hi-rise in a downtown area I might have some packing problems too.

Have you considered smaller items? Swimm goggles instead of dust goggles? foldable paper dust-masks with some duct-tape or perhaps an evac-u-8 hood. Are you sure you will be able to do anything useful with a mini-prybar? Seems like a very heavy - bulky item that will only move small items at-best. Is there anything that you could pry with that pry-bar that you couldn't actually simply lift if you had to? Are there enough desk legs and other expedient pry-bars available so you don't need to carry it? Sinclair x10 radio gets you FM in your ear without any space taken up.

Leather gloves - I got those. Not work gloves just driving gloves. They fit in my jacket pocket and take up little room but they would protect my hands from sharps for a quick evac.

How big is your FAK? What are your qualifications? I have a FAK in an altoids tin that I carry everywhere with bandaids, scissors, bacitracin, safety-pins, tweezers, magnifying glass, cpr mask, latex gloves, ibuprofin, razor blade, Xacto blade, P.A. tabs. I also have an EMT-Basic duffle bag (which I leave in my vehicle) which has airways, large bandaids, stethescope and BP Cuff, NRB Mask and bag, Splints, Tape, Elastic wrap, Gauze, Slings, Klingwrap etc... If you are carrying something more like my EMT-Basic duffle then I fully understand the carry problem. Again if your scenario puts you far from your vehicle and you have the training to use the larger FAK then you have a scenario need that I don't encounter.

BTW, I work in casual attire and as I sit here I have:

1 4X6 nylon waterproof tarp,
1 Space Blanket
1 Plastic emergency poncho
1 Large stowable carry bag
1 Eye Shades
1 Earplugs
1 Brush
1 Lint Brush - (Hey I'm just listing it as I find it - You gotta look smart even if times are tough)
2 Handwarmers
1 bottle 50 no-doz
1 polyester balaclava
1 Cell phone with spare battery
1 micro-cassette recorder
1 roll stamps
1 pack 10 mini-cigars - tasty and they make great tinder
1 mini-bic
1 wind-proof butane with piezo ignition
1 Small mint-tin various medications (ibuprofin, acetomenefin, Immodium, diphenhydramine, tumms
1 inspirational mini-book
1 chess set
1 large Bandanna
1 pen
1 mechanical pencil
1 whistle
1 springloaded center-punch
1 match safe with compass with storm-proof matches
1 extensible magnetic pickup tool
1 AA mag-lite
1 leatherman wave
1 asp saphire light
1 mini-multitool with built-in LED
1 Swiss-tech utili-key
1 Swiss-tech microtech+
1 sewing kit in an Altoids Breath-strips pack
1 regular-bic
1 Altoids FAK
1 Altoids PSK
1 Wallet with cash and cards and id

If I get my jacket on the way out of the cube (not gauranteed) I will also have

1 multifunction lighter with compass and Led
1 pair leather driving gloves
1 roll dimes
1 1oz bottle hand sanitizer
1 another mini-bic
1 another flashlight
1 mini-roll TP

If I get to my car I will have

1 Large EMT-Basic duffle

1 Fanny pack with
1 100' paracord
1 8x12 Binoc's
1 another space blanket
1 another plastic poncho
1 Large Contractor Trash bag
1 another small (Hikers) FAK
1 Another AA mag-lite

1 Large Vehicle kit with
2 gallons water
4 Space blankets
4 vinyl ponchos
8 tie-down straps
2 Road flares
1 hazard triangle
1 100 ft roll Duct-tape
1 Film canister matches
Extra fluids for everything ATF, Oil, P.Steering, Windshield Washer, Coolant
fix-a-flat, radiater sealant, transmission sealant, crank-case sealant, ether starter fluid
1 Tow strap
1 hand-powered come-along
1 E-tool
1 package mechanics rags
1 roll paper towels
1 roll TP
1 Mobile Ham station
1 Ham HT


That's todays layers as best I can figure. Might have missed some of the vehicle kit since I didn't go out and inventory.

slayer,

Of all the items I have in my various kits the needle and thread have come in handy many more times than just about anything else, other than a knife or multitool perhaps. It is not always about major emergencies...sometimes sewing a button on your pants seems like a real emergency <img src="images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

A kit or more properly multi-kits is always around me. I follow the MiniMe approach of on-body, coat, desk, shoulder bag, and car kits each getting bigger or having better items.

My desk kit has the rubble kit---3' pry bar, hardhat, and lots of extra water so I do not carry these around.

I always think of these as concentric rings of better equipment but all relying on the same set of basic skills.

Minimum is the on-body and while my scenario does not use a PSK tin it does use a PSK vest and pockets and belt to have what I consider the absolute minimum. BTW needle and thread is one of the items that meets my absolute minimum test.

my personal belief is that the psk is there to kick start your survival mind set and provide you with a few fairly basic items that you will need as a minimum to deal with the problems in a short term situation.

Well, I don't strictly "need" the bulky stuff. I carry it because it helps me feel more prepared and the areas in which I live and work, while not urban, are very heavily developed suburbia.

The mini-prybar is simply a cool bit of gear I probably could do without. Swim goggles won't work because I wear glasses. That's a weakspot. I'm extremely nearsighted and need bifocals now (I'm 42). If I lose my glasses, you will not only be driving me home, you'll be walking me to my door, too.

I carry the bulky stuff because they are useful for more than just digging out of rubble. There are car accidents all the time in this area. One day I will be Johnny-on-the-spot and I need to be ready.

Also, the nearby mall is the King of Prussia Mall. I am there frequently and it is, in my opinion, a prime target, if you get my drift. Just trying to be prepared here.

I don't expect anything to happen to me while I'm at work. It's commuting and "mall-ratting" that I'm planning for.

Gotta hand it to you. You are WAY more prepared than I am. I think I must upgrade.

My Vest weighs in above 5 pounds but since it is a vest (and a very well constructed filsons vest at that (thanks Randy!) ) it wears light. I don't even notice the weight of the vest and gear. occasionally I will notice the bulk and warmth of the vest tho.

The Filson's stuff is expensive. It looks great, but no can affordo.

>>If you have to perform rescue breathing to a victim who has a broken neck and your by yourself the book I was reading said to safety pin the victims tough to their lip to keep it from blocking the air way

Oh, god, scout, don't even think that, it makes me cringe. Far better to take a proper CPR course and learn how to do a jaw thrust without head tilt, or carry a cheap pocket mask (I have one from Saint John Ambulance that's 2" x 2" x 1" and clips on my keyring.)

If you absolutely have to leave the casualty to go for help, that's a different matter; but in that case, you shouldn't leave them on their back anyway, you should roll them over (even with a head injury) in case they vomit and choke.

I cannot conceive of a situation where you would need to safety-pin a casualty's tongue to their lip, ever. What happens if the casualty regains consciousness? Do you really want to try maintaining C-spine on a casualty who's convulsing with pain because of something you did?

Don't even think about it. Get a proper First Aid book, or better yet, take a Red Cross or equivalent course.

For the most part Filson stuff is only initially expensive. My experience is that it both out performs and more importantly out last other stuff so the cost per mile is lower than other things.

Really though the vest concept is just a great way of providing both coverage of your tools on the belt, storage of items that are hard to carry otherwise (tarp or plastic shelter, wool hat, wool gloves), and provides a great barrier to temperature changes. If I had to exit my building with only my on-body I would have shelter to be warm enough (not warm as I would like in the winter but enough) and dry, this is way more than my work mates.

I bought my current vest over 4 years ago at $100....still going strong and well worth the $25 per year.

A decent woolrich or like vest will serve just as well and may last as long but my Filson Vest to me is the most valuable kit item I have ever found.

I second aardwolf's cautions here. I cannot imagine the safety pin proceedure as being anything but torture.

To be honest, when I first came to this forum I, too, questioned the need for "Urban Survival Kits". Personally, I don't feel undressed if I go to work without an Altoids tin in my pocket. On the other hand, I was on a train from Toronto to Ottawa when the big power blackout occurred; and my widowed mother (80 years old yesterday) was without power for several days when Hurricane Juan went through Nova Scotia. I actually did have to dig the Photon Microlight out of my Altoids tin (which I had in my rucksack) when I got to Ottawa in the dark - and that was because I had stupidly left my car keys, with my "everyday" Photon, at my sister's house in Toronto.

I do carry a credit card sized Fresnel lens in my wallet; I also laminated a cotton ball to the back of my Wilderness First Aid Instructor's wallet card, and I carry a blank key with 5 Ronson lighter flints crazy-glued to it (secured with a 1" piece of clear shrink tubing) and a SAK Classic on my keyring, so I pretty much always have flint, striker and tinder on my person.

As an aside, I got interested in survival several years ago when I heard a news article about a farmer in northern Alberta who died after he accidentally locked himself out of the house. He was found frozen to death in his own barn, sitting next to a wood stove filled with fuel; he didn't have any matches.

I haven't had anyone poke fun at me for carring survival supplies, but then, it's not part of my personality to draw attention to my PSK, no matter how proud I might be of it. The "flint" key on my keychain looks just like a regular key unless you examine it closely, and most people don't go through my wallet to see what I've got in it <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> (Even if they did, they probably wouldn't know what it was.)

On the other side of the coin, a co-worker (and fellow lightplane pilot) just returned from a trip to California, where he picked up a new single-seat airplane (a YaK aerobatic plane that he plans to fly in airshows), and a month ago he ferried a homebuilt from Alberta to Nova Scotia. Knowing of my interest in wilderness survival, both times he asked if I would put together a small survival kit for him.

Craig,

You may want to check out the swim goggles with built in eyeglasses. I have been meaning to do this for a long time and now just may. Something to keep the dust out of the eyes may be very important, my safety glasses are not going to cut it over my eyeglasses.

I cannot remember how much these cost, but it seems like it was reasonable...especially if you swim.

Warning Warning!

I would be very interested in knowing the title and author of the book you are reading - sounds like it may be full of helpful information - just as Dilbert should be read by all managers.

Not all things written books make sense and not all books are written by intelligent people!

As has already been noted - safety pinning someone tongue to their lip is utter nonsense! If you have a patient that is numb enough to allow you to do that without kicking you in the head then you are far better off using an oral airway or a NP airway. Both of these can be had in adjustable versions and the NP airway (nose-hose) is flexible and fairly easily packed and even rather well tolerated should the individual awake after you inserted it. Of course you shouldn't be using these items without the proper training and the NP airway is strongly contra-indicated in the case of a head injury that may have damaged the palate.

suturing a wound in the field is also a bad idea. It is almost impossible to get the wound properly cleansed in the field such that if you close it you won't be sealing in an infection which may lead to gangrene. The heavy bleading should be manageable if it is not arterial. The healing process will begin without closing and the only real difference between closing and not closing the wound is the area of scar tissue resulting. - leave it open, irrigate with sterile water (which can be had by boiling easily enough) twice daily keep wrapped in sterile dressings == boiled bandannas at minimum and immobilize as necessary depending upon the severity. Don't use unsterile thread to close a deep wound in the field or you will be using your jack-knife to amputate in a few short days in order to prevent the gangrene from migrating into the vitals.

That's what I did when I bought sunglasses last year, when I had to get bifocals.

I have always liked Rayban Wayfarers, so I got a pair at the local Lenscrafters (during a 50% discount sale) and had them fitted with prescription lenses, including bifocals.

It is awfully nice to be able to walk on the beach without squinting, and then to sit down and read for bit, with the text being nice and clear.

Because I work with computers, developing databases and web sites, I think the SCOTTeVEST VERSION 3.O would be a better choice for me.

The Scott-e-Vest is not inexpensive either

The one thing that should be considered in going down the vest path of kit building is whether or not the vest will become invisible.

I think that some multi-pocket models just do not fit the look needed to blend into the workplace. My wool vest in the Pacific NW works great in a casual workplace. I have worn this one or a nearly identical one since the first day I started my job here. If I take it off people ask about it....no one asks about it otherwise. So my tools are both contained and covered and secure in my "uniform". Starting to wear a solidly stuffed vest...expecially every day will cause comments, so it is best to look for one that will blend best into whatever work environment you have. This may be a silk vest, Filson vest, camo vest, photo vest whatever, but blending is needed and time to make this concept work.

It is almost like looking for the ultimate tin.....just a cloth one.

You are correct, sir. The SCOTTeVEST Three.0 Micro jacket is $159.99 and the Three.0 Fleece jacket is $129.99. That's not cheap in my book, but those jackets have loads of pockets begging to be stuffed with my, well, stuff.

Well said, and my basic approach is the tried and true (I know, I know, "old"!!!) moniker from the military: Maybe you want to have more, maybe you will get more, but all you can really depend on is what you’ve already got. So I try to err on the side of “already got.”

And there weren't any windows at ground level through which he could break? No outbuildings, no truck? That's a bit hard to swallow, but I know people die all the time because they failed to use their brains.

It's even more bizarre than that. The Mounties reconstructed what happened; it appears that he attempted to climb through an open ground floor window in the back of the house. Unable to do so because of his heavy parka, he apparently took the parka off and tossed it through the open window. He still couldn't climb through the window, now he was locked outside with no parka.

The crowning irony was that the cops found matches in the pocket of his parka. <img src="images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

The news report didn't mention whether alcohol was involved. Myself, I think he just didn't realise how much trouble he was in until he had more or less passed the point of no return (which was probably when he tossed the parka through the window, rather than get it dirty by dropping it on the ground). Most of us probably assume that we could climb through a ground floor window without too much trouble, but how many of us have actually tried it? <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It may have just been stupidity, but I think there's a distinction between stupidity and thoughtlessness. (I remember a fellow soldier and I burned up an entire book of matches once trying unsuccessfully to light a Coleman lantern in the wind. Finally, we clued in and erected a wind-break, but we had no matches left. We spent several more minutes trying to light the lantern using a BIC lighter; finally the light came on again and I realised that we could use the BIC to set fire to one of the spent matches.) <img src="images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I don't want to blow my own horn, but I'm not "stupid" in the conventional sense; I have a Master's degree in mathematics, among other things. I just didn't stop to think about what we were doing.

I personally suspect the farmer in question was suffering from hypothermia-induced mental confusion, possibly combined with panic and maybe, in the end, a desire to just "lie down and get it over with".

Oh boy. I'll vote for confusion and that I believe the poor guy didn't stop to think what he was doing.

Instead of adventurers freezing atop Mt. Everest, which you would expect to hear about, I hear far more stories of people who, from ignorance, confusion, or not stopping to think what they're doing, create a survival situation where none should exist in the first place, and then do exactly the wrong thing and wind up dying.

That about summs up the whole thing. This is why the edge of mental preparedness if so much more important than any edge we may gain by carrying a bunch of tools, gadgets and incendiaries. When you are standing outside, cold enough to be threatened by it and in a hurry to get something - anything done about it, it is at that point more than any other, the point of crises, when we must stop, think things through, plan and think through the plan before acting. Sometimes it is good to just plain make a spot of tea. Had the gentleman in this story gone to the barn with his coat on, made a spot of tea on the wood stove there (using the matches in the coat pocket and melted snow and perhaps a feed bucket), he would have quickly realized that he had all that he needed right there in the barn. Could have made a nice warm bed of hay near the wood stove and burned the stalls for days until he cut a beam and battered down the front door of his house! Or used some harness straps or the like to pull out the cross member of the window. Or enlisted the aid of his livestock for both warmth and pulling power. The list seams endless when sitting warm with a cup of tea. Point is he could have achieved the "sitting warm with a cup of tea" posture without resolving his crises. This posture is attainable in the middle of most crises and often helps us to regain perspective and come up with solutions that save lives.

There's an old joke that the typical British response to everything is to put the kettle on... <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

another note. . . it's a dumb idea to stick your fingers into an unconcious patients mouth at any time. if they suffer a seizure or something they WILL bite your fingers off. and human bites always get infected.
a choking patient is a different story. . . if they pass out from lack of oxygen then they're probably not suffering from a head injury = low index of suspicion for seizures. this is the only time i can think of that i would stick my fingers into an unconcious patients mouth.
How could ya get the safety pin onto the tongue without reaching in there?

I would use the pliers on my Leatherman. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

~W

I think it goes beyond comfort. We all go through a regimented mental process as we develop and assemble our kits. I beleive the pprocess itself makes us more aware of survival, both in terms of how to survive and, perhaps more importantly, how to avoid survival situations.

We constantly read survival stories about ill prepared, ignorant folks doing things to get themselves in trouble. Most of the time they're actions you and I would avoid or excercise extreme caution.

I firmly beleive the tactil process of kit assembly aids us in our ability to survive as much as having a tin full of useful and/or necessary items. Our brain is our best survival tool!

i doubt the patient is gonna like that ! just one miss cauculation and his tast bugs will be out of business for awile...