ETS SAK

AyersTG suggested someone start a new post on the 'ideal SAK'. So lets attempt the impossible - develop an ideal ETS SAK. this is my idea for an outdoor based ETS SAK:

-Large size (111mm)
-Large locking blade
-Wood saw
-cap lifter
-corkscrew
-can opener
-screwdriver (built into can opener and cap lifter)
-awl
-lanyard attatchment
-tweezers
-pen
-needle
-eye-glass screwdriver

and now my EDC ETS SAK suggestion.

-small body (91mm)
-1 medium blade (non-locking)
-1 mini blade (non locking)]
-cap lifter
-corkscrew
-can opener
-screwdriver (built into can opener and cap lifter)
-awl
-lanyard attatchment
-tweezers
-pen
-needle
-eye-glass screwdriver

these are what i would think of as the ideal ETS SAK's. they cover your basic needs of a tool, yet still aren't as big and heavy as a multi-tool.

what are your ideas?

Seeing as how I've never used a corkscrew in my life (at least not for its intended purpose), I would probably replace the corkscrew with the little magnifying glass I've seen on some of the larger SAKs. This would give me another potential fire making option - at least on sunny days! Other possibilities might include an LED flashlight (I have one on my little 'Executive' model SAK, along with the aforementioned pen) or maybe a whistle built into the side of the knife. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

OK, since Jonathan got this started, I'll toss in some initial factoids instead of getting some sleep like I should be. BTW, we should include the 95mm knives as well - those are the ones with the Alox (aluminum) scales

I have three sample knives in front of me: current model "2 layer" 91mm knife, a current Rucksack "3 layer" 111mm knife, and a ~25 year old "4 layer" 91mm knife that is a precursor of the Huntsman (not Hunter, which is an 111mm).

The 2 layer knife averages about 14.1mm thick, the 3 layer knife averages about 17.9mm thick, and the 4 layer knife averages about 19.5mm thick. The cellidor handles vary in thickness a bit depending on where the measurement is taken - thickest over a mounting stud; thinner between studs. None of these measurements include the slight protrusions on the right side due to the corkscrew or phillips screw driver (they use the same "notch" in the right side handle if the phillips is mounted on the back of the blade - more on that later - but that is why you may have a corkscrew or a phillps on the back, but not both - usually)

I'm sticking to Victorinox because that is what I am familiar with - Wenger owners jump in anytime.

A 91mm 4 layer knife is the largest EDC pocket knife that is comfortable to me. I can (and have) worn a saber on my belt, but I'm talking POCKET KNIFE here. In a 91mm knife, a 5 layer feels FAT to me.

Layers are not identical in thickness, but they run in the range of 3.5mm to 4.1mm (and then subtract about 0.75mm for one side plate common to an adjacent layer).

In a 111mm knife, which is not too large for me in any field clothing (but not office), a three layer knife feels too slim. Handling various fixed blade knives and measuring thicknesses, I extrapolate that in a 111mm knife, a 5 layer 111mm knife would probably be "just right", but I have not picked up one yet to verify this.

BTW, the reason a 111mm does not suit me in office togs is because they do not have clips to orient them vertically; a 91mm lies in the bottom of my front pocket without protruding, but a 111mm "sticks out" laying horizontally in my front pocket. YMMV.

One final note before I move away from handles/layers: the natural grip for non-straining tasks is different between the 91mm and the 111mm.

As for the locks on 111mm - all I have handled, including this specimen, are loose, even NIB. Yes, they lock securely enough for me for this kind of knife. No, they are not movement-free like even an ancient Buck lock back folder or any of my liner locks. There seems to be about 2-3 degrees of "clearance" movement in the Victorinox lock. I think the Wengers are lock backs (correct me if I am wrong), and even tho I favor Vics, I imagine the Wengers lock up better. And the Wengers lockbacks have a more suitable blade shape (clip point). FWTIW...

Next post, some pics. Tomorrow/this weekend, some serious thoughts from me. For now, let me leave this seed: All the 2 blade knives I've examined COULD have a longer small blade. I'd like to see a drop point main blade and a clip point small blade that is slightly longer than the existing blade. The existing sort of "saber grind" profile is good, and the existing choil is good, although I would like to see it a little larger and deeper if taken out of the (bolster?) thick part of the root of the blade.

Y'all jump in on this - maybe we can cook up something neat - if nothing else, there must be SAK smiths out there who will do mods...

On to the next post... *edit* - I really need to zonk out - I'll continue this late tomorrow or this weekend, including some pics - I have to upload them first and I'm too tired to do that tonight. * end edit*

Tom

For the 111mm lock blade, I too wish you could fit the pen and needle in like the swiss champs. I wonder if there is a way to drill some kind of tunnel into the scales to put the pen in....

As for the EDC SAK,
ALL 91mm models with the cork screw can be modified to accept the pen and pin. You basically need to know a nice SAK dealer, choose the SAK with your favourite implements e.g. Huntsman / camper etc and get the guy to CHANGE the Celidor scales to that from a swisschamp which accepts the pen and pin. They usually have spare scales for repairs and such, and add the eyeglass screwdriver and you have your perfect EDC SAK.

<img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

That wouldn't be possible because the magnifying glass sits in the main bit of the knife with the blades and the corkscrew is on the back. The only thing that Victorinox make that the corkscrew could be replaced with is a phillips screwdriver.
My ideal EDC SAK wouldn't be how you mentioned. Since I live in the countryside, my ideal one would have to include a saw and i'm not really certain that the small blade is nessecary wouldn't the magnifying glass be more useful?

My 'Huntsman' SAK has a saw, and that was one of the features that attracted me to that particular model. Obviously, the corkscrew couldn't be replaced by the magnifying glass as is; I presumed that we were describing our 'ideal' SAK. For example, my Huntsman has both a corkscrew and a 'parcel hook' on the back, neither one of which is of much utility to me. I like your idea of putting a Phillips screwdriver back there next to the awe, which still leaves one empty position for...something. Hmmmm...I'm beginning to wonder if my 'idea' SAK would even be practical size! Knives, screwdrivers, a file, a saw, a magnifying glass, oh my! <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Starting with the 91mm 4 layer knife package that suits me for EDC...

The Huntsman and its variants seem to be a good start. This is the Huntsman Plus, which adds the tiny screwdriver, straight pin, and pen to the package:


The Fieldmaster, AKA the BSA Huntsman, replaces the corkscrew with the large Phillips screwdriver. Since both the corkscrew and the mini screwdriver are important to me, I’ll stick with modifying the Huntsman Plus, but this variant may interest some:


As stated, I'll start with the Huntsman Plus. Changes I would like to see to this model:

1. Main blade shaped as a drop point.

2. Second blade lengthened as much as possible and shaped like a clipped point – very long convex clip, to make this a slender “splinter-lifter” and “small game” style blade.

3. Ruler marks on the woodsaw: 0 – 5 cm on one side and 0 - 2 inches (preferably with 1/10 sub divisions, but 1/16 OK) on the other. The max would be about 6 cm / 2.5 inches and those are neither handy nor could the zero marks be at very usable positions, so I opt for the 50mm / 2 inches marks, positioned closer to the end of the saw blade.

4. I think I’d like the tip width of the screwdriver blade reduced slightly. It seems large for some tasks and tempts one to put way too much torque on the blade. I’m hoping for some specific dialog on this as I haven’t really thought this part through yet.

5. Modify the “small” screwdriver tip on the can opener blade to be a flat Phillips driver similar to the micra as large as possible without compromising the can opener.

6. The reamer is frequently called an “awl”. It is not an awl; it is a borer-reamer. It’s a terrible awl (I’ve used it as one) and a pretty versatile reamer in my experience. If anyone knows what its original purpose was (cleaning out a pipe stem???), please sing out… but it is useful often enough that I’d leave it. OK – there are times when I wish it made a smaller diameter hole, so maybe it should be made slimmer. I can more easily increase the diameter of a hole than decrease it…

7. … Which leads me to the parcel hook. Huh? Modify/change this as follows: Make this a bonafide awl – sure, put a thread hole in it (say, large enough to readily take an inner strand from 550 cord), but make it an real awl. I don’t care if it’s round, oval, or rectangular in cross section, but it should simply pierce a hole in cloth, plastic, canvas, leather, etc and NOT have a cutting edge(s). Also, I think that careful attention to the tip could give us a hybrid: the tip could be made to function as a small or tiny Phillips driver while retaining its piercing ability. I understand that simply modifying the existing hook will make it difficult to raise the awl out of storage, so that must be factored in. One suggestion is to make it slightly curved almost like a sail maker’s needle so the shape itself forms a “nail nick” about mid-point. No cutting edges, just a piercing point. Victorinox can figure this out without my help, I’m sure.

8. I am neutral on the toothpick, so it can go if it’s in the way of the next several items. Ditto the ballpoint pen.

9. Replace the straight pin with two or more sewing needles. Three would be great: A moderately large Sharps with a big eye, a very large ballpoint (we have an awl, remember) with an eye large enough to take an inner strand of 550 cord, and as large a curved “sail maker’s” needle as can be snaked in around the studs. Mount the sharps in a plastic carrier that looks suspiciously like a modified toothpick, mount the ballpoint needle in a similar carrier (probably made from spring steel), and mount the curved needle by friction points molded into the inside of the cellidor scale. Oh – just for kicks, magnetize the straight needles – perhaps mold a small rare earth magnet into the scale to hold/help hold needles in place AND re-magnetize as they are sheathed/unsheathed. Orient the magnet so the points of the needles will polarize to point North. FWIW, the current ballpoint pen might be modified to retain the pen function and also serve fairly well as a large ballpoint needle by adding an eye to it - but I am after the needle function in any event - the pen function would be laignape.

10. Inset a metal dimple somewhere on on scale to serve as a needle-pusher, since we don't have a thimble. I gravitate to a location near one end, opposite side from the next item, because I think putting it in the center will tempt a puncture wound to the palm from a slip.

11. At the end away from the lanyard ring, something that will necessitate thickening a scale slightly: a sparking wheel assembly that uses standard lighter flints. It should be on a removable carrier to allow changing flints and if possible the carrier should have one or more spare flints clipped in (I can use the tiny screwdriver to pry them out). Design it to be used to create aimed sparks in the stowed position. This is the most challenging modification I’d like to see – the others are intrinsically feasible. If this is simply impossible, then mount an oval or rectangular cross section ferrocerrium sparking rod of usable length in that end.


12. Let’s look at this model:



This is an Altimeter Plus. It’s essentially another Huntsman variant at first glance. Lose the watch/barometer/thermometer, and we have… a Huntsman with an additional screwdriver termed a “fine” screwdriver. Oooooh! I want that on my “ETS” knife! This is a 4 layer knife, so there is no reason to deny this. While we’re at it, make it a fine toothed file on one side (nails, if nothing else, but make it hard enough to touch metal) and put a couple of diamond-dust hook and needle sharpening grooves on the opposite sides – no need to bother facing the entire side with diamond dust, but that would be OK. Alternatively, the tip could be a wood “chisel” or it could be ground dual-purpose like Leatherman screwdriver tips.


13. What’s missing? A file/hone; ideally a de-mountable one with medium and fine diamond on the sides, metal file on one edge, diamond hook/needle groove on the spine, and a removable standard triangular carbide tool bit on the tip (as a scribe, glass scratcher, etc). But to retain everything else, we would have to go to a 5 layer knife. If Victorinox would do this, even if it is not demountable, I would surrender the scissors. Otherwise, keep the scissors. Heck, I’d even consider a 5 layer knife…

I’ll post some thoughts about a 111mm knife later this weekend.


Let the debates begin...

Regards,

Tom

Excellent ideas. However there are a couple of ideas that I am uncertain about, namely the sparking wheel. This seems too complecated to me. On another forum, people were talking about trying to combine a ferocium rod with an SAK. One idea was to replace the tiny screwdriver in the corkscrew with a ferocium rod with the screw in top piece. Another idea was to replace the tooth pick with a tiny piece of ferocium that could be removed and struck. IMO both of these designs would be too flimsey. The only real possibility that I can think of would be to add a BSA hotspark or similar as standard to the lanyard ring.

Why not attapt the reamer to make a good awl instead of having both?

Is this meant to be an EDC urban tool or an outdoor/survival tool. It appears to be the latter (which I favour). In this case do you think the scissors are nessesary? If we did away with them we could shed a layer or replace them with a more useful tool like your suggested file.

These are my ideals. Thanks for a great post Tom <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Pete,

Thanks for the comments. When I wrote "EDC", I mean that - urban or wilds all the same to me. My old version Huntsman is in my pocket all the time, period, unless I am in a mess dress uniform (sort of like a tuxedo) - very rarely; no more than 4 evenings a year at most now that I am retired.

There are at least two problems with a sparking rod integral with this knife. The screwdriver-corkscrew version you mentioned would be darned difficult to hold onto and offers a rather small area to scrape. Inserting one in a scale without significantly thickening the knife could be done. I would cement it to a 1/4 arc section of spring steel to hold things together in the event of a fracture and allow it to be used down to an otherwise unattainable thinness, but I'm still skeptical of being able to retain it in my grasp in use. (split a tube lengthwise into 4 sections; cement a ferrocerrioum rod into one of the sections and attach a plastic keeper/ handle to one end)

If it can be done, I'd like the sparking wheel. It's one handed (a plus). Not really complicated, although there is potential for a rustable component (the spring) unless a suitable rust resistant steel could be used for the spring.

If not feasible, your comment about adding a BSA hot spark is on target. I suggest it be tethered with a simple quick release. Here is what I EDC instead:





Nothing special about this combo - the connector came with the inexpensive small lockback knife and it works very well. Bulkier than some alternatives, but I already had it, so...

I don't NEED the scissors; I also EDC a Micra and usually have a WAVE on me. But thinking about this as the sole tool, I would really like to keep the scissors. I've used them a lot over the years - hehe - actually I'm using them x2 daily right now to cut tape and latex gauze for wound management (a little surgery on a foot recently). I suppose I've cut more moleskin for folks with these scissors than anything else, but they are functional in any event. As I said, I would be willing to give them up for the file I described.

Back to you, Pete...

Tom

<img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. By sparking wheel, do you mean something like the sparklite? I still can't quite picture this. So the main tool would act as the handle and the sparking mechanism would stick out unprotected? I don't think is what you mean is it.

Your idea about cementing the ferocium to a piece of metal and inserting it in to the scale seems feasable. However this would soon wear down and wouldn't be much use in a survival situation (better than nothing albeit).

That quick release thing looks like a good idea. I use a metal one like doug has on my keychain, but plastic would be better as it wouldn't knock against and chip the hotspark.

All good ideas so far.

I really like the looks of the Victorinox Swissflame/Campflame knives, which, as well as the built-in butane lighter, seem to have a very practical selection of tools.

Unfortunately, they don't seem to be available in the US yet- probably fears of litigation are behind that, as with most things we don't get over here.

I have an old Vic Champion.I don't think these are made any more.They are like the Swiss Champ with out the mini pliers. On one side I epoxied the rod from a BSA Hot Spark into a groove I made with a Dremel tool.This works quite well but does detract slightly from looks.

I had an idea for a new SAK afew years ago...

How about a pair of knives... one general version like an explorer with all the daily need items, and then a companion knife with all the additional tools you don't need daily, such as the saw, spark rod, pliers, locking belt cutter, etc... add this knife when you head into the bush. Maybe even make them lock together or in two colors to easily tell them apart... just a thought.

That idea is appealing. I have a SAK with damaged scales. I also scavanged some components from an old BIC lighter. That looks like an opportunity to give it a try. I´ll post on that topic when I manage to make it work.

If I were to let my imagination run wild, I would try to hollow out the scales to allow for needle(s) and thread. Also, I would replace the corkscrew and eyeglass screwdriver insert with a flint and striker combination. The striker could still be unscrewed from the flint, which would be hollow. Personally, I like replacing the toothpick and usless tweezers with an LED and a retractable pen, and would do so here.

Max : You might try modifying one of those sparkers used with Coleman lanterns (~ $3). They are constructed of brass and allow easy replacement of the flints.

Max, you are reading my mind... I look forward to seeing this / reading your opinion afterwards.

Tom

I have just joined and would like to say how great and educational this forum is! -- Now I have a thought on the ETS SAK, what about taking a SAK huntsman or similar knife with the essentially useless corckscrew, removing it alltogeather(per hack saw or the like) and replacing it with a freocium/flint rod epoxied in it's place? Any thoughts?

--Thanks for letting me join in the fun!

I just thought of this. Most SAKs and multitools are designed with outdoorsman in mind. now I know that most of use them for something else, but why have they never put a map scale on a blade? They put a ruler on the fish scaler (??) which is only three inches max, but why not a 1:24 on one side and a 1:67 on the other, or a militry version with 1:50 and 1:250 or something like that on the other? The rulers arent that easy to use except for rough guesses, but even a three inch blade with a mapscale on it would be invaluable if you lost your compass, or all you had was a "wrist rocket".

Any thoughts?

Garrett

citizen.
Welcome to the forum! there are some really knowledable people on this forum, so ask questions and join in on the discussions.


Questions for the Blade-Obsessed - this thread discusses the use and functions of the SAK corkscrew and trying to add a fire-starting tool.

Welcome to ETS!

<<...with the essentially useless corckscrew...>>

Now, where did I put that "warm welcome" flamethrower... probably most folks agree with you, but some do not.

The "Fieldmaster" or BSA Huntsman is the same knife as the Huntsman but with a Phillips screwdriver instead of the corkscrew. Similar variants exist for most models equipped with a corkscrew.

So you guys leave my corkscrew alone and go cut off your Phillips screwdriver instead <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm curious how it will be scraped if it is permanently attached to the SAK - does that mean a second knife or scraper? If you want to give this a shot, maybe you could cut off your phillips screwdriver (why not the parcel hook instead?), attach a socket to the sawn-off stub such that it will hold a sparking rod. Flip it open, remove rod, and scrape with an SAK blade... just a suggestion. It might be difficult to hold onto, but if you give it a shot, please give us a report - pics, too!

***EDIT Hard to quickly measure, but the OD of the corkscrew looks to be about 7.75mm - about 0.3 inches. The Phillips screwdriver-in-lieu-of-corkscrew appears to be about 5.5mm or around 0.213 inch, give or take. Easy to cut either down to a stub (maybe try to keep the stub at least 1 diameter long) and epoxy on a piece of 1.2" to 1.25" long tubing. Probably some aluminum arrow shafts are close and for certain one could get some K&N brass or aluminum tubing from a hobby store in a close enough diameter. A piece of brake line (preferably stainless steel) may work or may be too soft (bend on opening?) In any event - That way, one could slip a rod into the tubing. Or cut the tubing shorter and use it as a socket (see above) to epoxy in a section of rod. Still dunno about graspability and other practical matters, so I'm interested in reading about it if someone takes this on. Someone who has no use for a corkscrew want to volunteer? END EDIT***

No flames, really - I understand that many folks don't see a need for the corkscrew. But if y'all will check around, you almost certainly can find the model SAK you want with some other tool in lieu of the corkscrew.

Hope you have as much fun learning here as I do.

Regards,

Tom

Garrett,

Not a bad idea. I think a 2 inch/ 50 mm ruler is useful for this as well. See my suggestion on ruler marks on the saw. Military maps in any scale are trivial with a millimeter ruler - a simple multiplication and you have the distance or UTM grid coords. You can even read some scales directly with a mm ruler. The 7 1/2 or 15 MOA standard USGS maps are a bit more of a PITA to convert, but again, it's just multiplication by a constant. Worst case, just transfer the measurement to the scale printed on the bottom margin of all topo maps - no math involved...

Tom

Just sticking this here in the thread - I know I keep seeing the suggestion to make a sparking rod to slip into the corkscrew, but I can't find the most recent suggestion to do that... anyway:

The spark-rod-in-the-corkscrew has been suggested many times here and on other forums and keeps getting re-invented. I have yet to actually hear of it being done. I just checked two SAKs with drill rod and it appears that the largest diameter that will slide into the corkscrew is a 3/32 inch rod (~ 2.38 mm).

So I put calipers on a Zippo brand cigarette lighter flint and guess what size it is? 2.37mm - almost exactly 3/32 inch. That's a pretty slender diameter if one is thinking of scraping along the side of the rod. It might work if someone can obtain a long enough piece of rod this diameter, although I have mental pictures of the rod snapping after just a few uses.

Has anyone actually done this? Theory is fine, but I'd like to see pics/read how it works - maybe it is a good idea; maybe not.

For the terminally curious:

I am so certain the following will work that I'm not even going to try it out, but suggest it here for other tweakers:

Purchase an eyeglasses screwdriver "replacement part" for the corkscrew. Make a 2 part plaster of paris mold of it (if you've never done this, there are plenty of how-tos on the web). Decide what "tool" you want screwed into the corkscrew - maybe a small drill bit, maybe a small phillips, maybe a skinny sparking rod, maybe a little allen wrench - you get the idea. Just keep the inscribed outside diameter no more than 3/32 inch. If it is larger than the screwdriver blade, scape the impression of the blade in the mold to fit - check by closing the mold on the part. Now mix up a little ball of epoxy putty. Stick on the end of the selected tool, set in the mold (grease the mold first with a release agent like Vasoline or oil) Press the mold halves together to form the epoxy ball into the shape of the screwdriver insert. You may have to fiddle a bit with the volume of putty required - probably about "1/2 pea" size, I'm estimating. A little too much should not be a big problem - trim the flash after it sets. In about 10 minutes you should have a nifty new gadget that slips securely into the corkscrew. Minor polishing can be accomplished two ways: 1) after the putty sets up but before it reaches full set (perhaps 30 minutes), run the tool in and out of the corkscrew many times - that will burnish the mating surfaces. 2) Let it cure overnight and then polish/ tweak the mating surfaces with needle files or rolled up fine abrasive paper or cloth.

Worst case, you now own a tiny screwdriver that stows in your corkscrew. And some epoxy putty. Both good.

QUESTION FOR LOUIS: Could you do this with geltrate (SP?) and then cast the insert with liquid epoxy or casting resin?

Man, I hope somebody tries this and comes up with some neat ideas! (OK - I'm thinking of a couple already...)

Tom

Tom : Although accurate enough for this purpose, Jeltrate, IMHO, would be unsuitable as a result of it's fragility. Rubber base or silcone base type impression materials should work as far as the impression goes. Pouring the model in dental stone (plaster) is another story. I can't even imagine getting the stone to follow such a torturous path as well as eliminating air bubbles. Also, remember that such impression materials (including Jeltrate) must be supported by a close fitting tray. The materials do not have enough inherent strength to resist distortion even from such a small, lightweight amount of dental stone. I mentioned a close fitting tray since the accuracy of the impression is impacted if it is too thick or if significantly irregular in thickness. Perhaps a split mold would work, and with your machinist skills such could be fabricated. This project would not appear to require accuracy measured in angstroms, though. Now, that should be all you'd ever want to know about dental impressions and then some. heheh. Personally, I'd just remove a corkscrew from an old SAK and use it considering what you would be getting into. ~ Lou

I certianly had no intent of throwing flames! Please don't misunderstand me, I use a corkscrew quite often. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I just respectfully disagree on their usefullness in a survival situation. For that matter, if we are talking survival then we might address that all screwdrivers are not needed as well. I would prefer to see a SAK with two blades, scissors, saw, magnifier, and awl/reamer. I carry a WAVE on my person at all times, along with my Benchmade 940 Osborne. I use the screw drivers on an almost daily basis. And that is perfectly fine for EDC. But if we were to think of outdoor survival only, a great deal of our beloved SAKs could be modified. I think if we were considering EDC then a corckscrew is perfectly fine. I only meant that in a survival situation there would be other things that I would rather have on my knife. I have an old Huntsman and as soon as I get some sparking rod I'm comfortable with (larger diameter) then I'll try it and let you know.
The question of how to spark a rod that's attached to your knife is a good issue. Any suggestions?

No, no, I was teasing about ME flaming, not you! Sorry for the confusion!

I would like to read how you would like to see a "custom made" SAK made up - that was the whole purpose of this thread in the first place. I mean, some things are not feasible - like fitting everything on a Huntsman PLUS a file into a 4 layer knife - that takes 5 layers. But within the realm of what can be done - regardless of if you like 2 layer, 7 layer, 91mm, 95mm, 111mm, or whatever, what would your ideal SAK look like?

Gee, sorry for the confusion!

Tom

I was only concerned about not starting off on the right foot. I have been following this forum for quite some time and have learned enough to know that I don't know nearly as much as some of you.
I feel the 95mm 4layer is the best sized knife. But again we run into the problem of if everything I wanted was on it, it would be like carring a brick in my pocket. Perhaps the 111mm also could be configured in such a way as to not make it too uncomfortable. Otherwise I would find myself "surviving" my equipment. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
The I deal set up for me would be as follows:

Single Large Plain Edge Blade
Single Small Plain Edge Blade (clip point?)
Sissors
Large flat screw driver w/cap lifter and wire stripper.
(I would possible like to see the stripper sharpened like the one on the WAVE)
Can Opener w/small flat screw driver.
Wood Saw-- perhaps a double sided file--I don't know
Phillips Screwdriver <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Reamer/Awl (do they even consider it an awl?)


I think this may be in production already. I don't know the models well enough. -- Maybe I could put the spark rod on a key chain I read about on another thread. Just a thought.

--Luke

Thanks for the thread! I found exactly what I was looking for. I can't wait to learn more!

Citizen : Ferrocerium can be sparked with many sharp, hard objects. Broken glass, sharp rocks, etc. all work although the largest shower of sparks seem to come with the old reliable hacksaw blade.

Strangley, the striker that I have had the best result with is an actual bit of flint. It was the only thing I had at hand and it worked great. The advantage of it over a hacksaw blade is that it doesn't wear down the blade as fast. This is because, as our archaeology teacher keeps telling us "flint can be struck sharper than a modern razor blade" <img src="images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Ditchfield : one molecule thick, so I've read.

I did it. My Spartan now has a sparking wheel <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. The knife still needs some serious cleaning and the scales could use a better finish <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. I post now anyway before I have to dig up a long forgotten thread to do so.
The sparker uses ordinary lighter flints. This should make it easy to aquire replacement.



The old scales where warped beyond repair so I decided to make new ones. I used aluminium as it´s more stable than plastic. The scales are snapped on just like the plastic ones. I went for a two layer design for the scale with the sparking wheel as it was easier to build. The layers are held together with the two screws on the left. The third screw holds the sparking device.
Here´s a picture of the sparking wheel:



The main body of the sparking device has a 6 mm square cross section. The rib is 3 mm thick and slips under the upper layer of the scale. It has a hole with a M 3 thread and there is sufficient room for pockets to hold spare flints (I haven´t made those pockets yet).
The sparking wheel protrudes enough for spinning and does not impair the use of the blades. The flint and spring are inserted from the bottom and are held in place with a headless screw. The screw can be used to adjust the pressure on the flint. The spring and the sparking wheel are scavanged from an empty BIC. I forced the zinc discs off (that is easily achieved with two pliers) to reduce bulk.



The best way to use the sparker is to hold the knife in the fist and spin the wheel with the thumb. Due to the design it´s hard to spin the wheel in the wrong direction. At least with the Spartan the wheel can be used with the left hand.
I tried cotton balls and cotton balls with vaseline. Both could be ignited with the sparks.
The device could be used without the SAK but it´s hard to hold. I rate the device as adequate for fire starting. I think that it could be really hard to operate with cold hands or gloves. It requires tools to replace the flint and replacing the flint can be difficult as there are small parts that could be lost.

Conclusion :
Adding a sparking wheel to the SAK is feasible. It adds about 3 mm of bulk. The small size makes use hard in certain circumstances. The intended use of the knife is not compromised. The sparks are not great but good enough to ignite good tinder. I would consider it a novelty item. I would not rely on it as a primary means of fire starting.

For the curious:
No electro powered tool was used to build the scale and the sparking device. I used a hand powered drill, a saw and a couple of files (mainly 10" #1 and #3 and a 4" square #3 for the wheel slot)

Max,

Fantastic - that location is exactly as I envisioned it. Great! Thanks for the report. For certain on my winter project list now!

Regards,

Tom

If you just want a flint on your SAK, try this. Get one of the Victorinox corkscrew insets with the small eye glass screwdriver in it. Insert the corkscrew insert backwards into the knife's cork screw so the screwdriver blade faces out. Grab the screwdriver blade with a pair of pliers and pull it out. Take a Spark-Lite plastic striker and saw off the end opposite the spark wheel and remove the spring and round flint. Adjust the size of the hole with a drill bit and take the flint and glue it into the corkscrew insert. Ounce the glue has set, use the file to rub angaist the flint to make sparks. Be carfull as the flint is not terrible strong.

Very cool.

1. I think if you used the wheel and flint for a Sparke-lite instead of a Bic lighter, the performance would be better. The parts of a Bic are meant to be disposable.

2. Consider using a headless screw with teh same size slot as eyeglasses. Then add the eyeglass attachemnt in the corkscrew.

Thanks for your hints for improvement.
There are some design constraints I didn´t mention. Those constraints would be obvious when you try to build it.
1.) The device already goes pretty close to one of the rivets that hold the scales. A bigger wheel could make it neccessary to redo the riveting.
2.) A bigger wheel would have to protrude more in order to spin it.
3.) The use of lighter flints was an essential design feature. It should ensure that you can buy replacements virtually everywhere.
4.) The screw that holds the flint and loads the spring has to have a core diameter of at least 2.5 mm (the diameter of the flints). M3 happens to have that core diameter. If you take a M3 headless slotted screw it can be driven with the small eyeglass screw driver.

The screws that are visible are M3 counter sunk. I used a counter sunk head screw for holding the sparker because the slot is less prone for damage and could still be unscrewed if the slot is slightly damaged. A headless slotted screw could be virtually impossible to remove if the slot or thread is damaged.

In my location I have no supplier for the Spark-lite. So it wasn´t an option for me.
Apart from that I wanted to keep the costs low as this was just a feasibility study.
I found that the sparking wheel of a BIC lighter doesn´t show signs of wear after the lighter is empty. The design allows fairly easy change of the wheel. So I don´t see a real problem with this.

Maybe the members who try to modify their SAK with a sparking wheel could give a short report on their solution. I´d be interested in that. When the flaws of the actual designs are ironed out, the sparking wheel on the SAK may even become a real preparedness item.