New U.S. survival knife

Posted by: Chris Kavanaugh

New U.S. survival knife - 09/03/01 08:33 AM

The old AF survival knife has been superceded by a essentially identical blade. The 'new features' are essentially material ; composite handles replace stacked leather, a cast guard instead of stamped with blade catching extensions and a grey phosphate like finish. The hammer finally boasts a proper lanyard hole, with a glorified shoestring attached. the sheath is a retrofit to the first , with a swinging loop attachment and sheet metal point guard. The sharpening stone is unchanged ( awfull) and is carried in a kydex pocket. If the soft metallurgy is unchanged ( they dulled rapidly once you did manage to get an edge), I imagine personel will continue to buy private substitutes.<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: New U.S. survival knife - 09/04/01 04:11 AM

Chris,<br><br>Where did you find this info?<br><br>
Posted by: Chris Kavanaugh

Re: New U.S. survival knife - 09/04/01 06:00 AM

There is a unit up for auction on EBAY under the survival category. Seller states the standard survival knife has been officially discontinued and this is supposedly the new model. It may be just another ' next generation' civilian variant. Serendipity, I located a mint old model at a garage sale for $10 and bought it with a pavlovian reaction to the gear of my misspent youth. looking over it again, theres a lot worse out there! wink <br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: New U.S. survival knife - 09/04/01 01:19 PM

Hi,<br><br>I also own a AF Survival knife since a few months made somewhere in the eighties and although I find the saw teeth on the back only usefull to produce sonme fine thinder the bowie blade actually has one of my sharpest edges of any blade I own including a Chris Reeve Sebenza, Spyderco Military etc.<br><br>It is scarry sharp and arm hair just topple over when I come near them.<br>OK it loses this performance faster then my Sebenza costing well over $300 but it is easilly restured using the small triangular ceramic Tri-Seps sharpener from Gatco.<br>Also the false edge (first 1.5" of blade) is sharpened and the point is so extreme that I reguarly use it to pick splinters from my fingers and hand.<br><br>In a survival situation I can live with the blade loosing it's bite sooner as I can always bring it back to scarry performance with just a few strokes.<br><br>Best thing, a used one can be found for $10-$20 and a new one can be had for less then $40.<br><br>Best scouting wishes from Holland,<br><br>Bagheera<br>(ssvnimrod)<br><br>
Posted by: Chris Kavanaugh

Re: New U.S. survival knife - 09/04/01 05:19 PM

You can improve the AF Knife easily. A lanyard loop and improved grip may be had with paracord. This simple addition is displayed in the Ranger Rick books and website. You can also drill a dedicated lanyard hole in the hammer but. Just be sure to offset it and avoid the critical tang- but juncture. I amputated the upper guard on all of mine. It makes fine work easier. It's only there to lash a shaft to. I never warmed to the idea of putting a critical piece of gear on the end of a stick. I don't think Bart the Bear would be very impressed anyway.The sawback was of course for emergency egress through the mangled remains of plexiglass and aluminum aircraft. Thats why it is a pull design, for use by injured crewmen or wearing mittens.You can put the blade in a vise and with dedicated file work improve it for sawing wood . The hammer is a nice feature, but I will never pound on the knife blade itself. I snapped one doing this in Arctic Survival School. I suspect a defective blade and the extreme cold made for a brittle combination.The leather handle and scabbard are vulnurable to midnight packrat attacks, so securing them with your leather boots is a good idea. I suspect there will be another collecting frenzy if production does indeed cease. The fact that there must be a million out there wont stop the 'genuine U.S. jetpilot survival knife sellers'. Good used ones are selling for $10-$25<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: New U.S. survival knife - 09/05/01 01:25 PM

While the flight surgeon for a USAR aviation brigade, I replaced the issued knife with a Gerber LMF. Thinking being that if I needed a knife, I would really need one and the issue knife required a significant amount of attention to keep the blade sharp. Never regretted the decision.<br><br>Jeffery S. Anderson, M.D.<br><br>
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: New U.S. survival knife - 09/30/01 08:56 PM

Mine was issued to me in the early '60s, before they added the metal tip to the sheath. While much better than a sharp stick, it isn't much as a blade. Broke the tip off just trying to husk a coconut one night. It would cut a nice hole in the skin of a 'chopper tho...<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: New U.S. survival knife - 10/08/01 12:56 AM

Hi,<br>check out knifecenter.com under ontario knives for 3 versions of this knife(w&w/o serrations and linecutter)<br>JB<br><br>Expect poison with the standing water.<br> -William Blake
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: svnimrod: Sharpening your U.S. survival knife? - 10/08/01 05:33 PM

Hi,<br><br>You said that your USAF knife was one of the sharpest you own. Is that due to the knife itself or that sharpener you mentioned, the Tri-Seps sharpener?<br><br>I must admit I have bad luck sharpening knives. They always end up duller than when I started, let alone with a razor edge!<br><br>If it is due to the sharpener, is that one that you would recommend for all knives, not just the USAF?<br><br>Thanks<br><br><br>Peace and God Bless America<br><br>Chris
Posted by: Anonymous

Sharpening made easy - 10/08/01 06:31 PM

Chris, not that you asked me, but I can understand about "bad luck sharpening knives". Getting a really good edge is anything but intuitive. If my own sharpening troubles are any guide, I'd guess that you may be having trouble with the angle. It's really hard to begin sharpening at exactly the right angle and it's also really hard to maintain that angle throughout the sharpening process. In fact, outside of a survival situation, I wouldn't attempt to sharpen one of my good pocket knives unless I had a sharpener with some built-in way to control that angle (i.e. not a simple flat stone or single rod).<br><br>The simplest angle-control method is the one used on any common crock-stick sharpener. Crock-sticks normally have two rods that splay upward like the top of the letter "Y". You hold the knife blade perfectly straight up and down and carve down each rod alternately sharpening each side of the blade. It takes almost all of the guess work out of it and you can quickly get a great result, almost razor sharp, every time with any decent crock stick. <br><br>Once you get used to getting good edges with a crock-stick, It is a lot easier to use a flat-style sharpener (like many include with survival gear) because you would just be trying to duplicate what happens when you use the crock-stick.<br><br>I'm not familiar with the Tri-Seps sharpener. It may be a wonderful sharpener, and it may have an angle-control method, which would be great. But my point is that you don't need the world's best sharpener to get a razor-sharp edge. You just need to get the angle right.<br><br>Good luck!<br><br>
Posted by: Chris Kavanaugh

Re: svnimrod: Sharpening your U.S. survival knife? - 10/08/01 06:42 PM

AF survival knives are made of a very low rockwell hardness. Yes, they can be honed exceedingly sharp. My complaint is they then get exceedingly dull with any hard use. Some people decrie hard use as abuse and prescribe axes or the large bowie-kukhri-machete blades.In the real world, more than one knife is the way to go. But in the real world we may only carry one knife, so it better be the best all around compromise. I managed to snap my issue AF knife at the hilt. I have heard first hand of the Ka-Bar also snapping from several sources. If you like the AF, I suggest the following simple mods; cut the upper crossguard off, drill a lanyard hole in the hamerbutt ( off center, avoid the tang) or wrap a paracord handle with loop. Secure a proper diamond hone to the sheath and put something usefull in the empty pouch. The hone provided is worthless. Carefull filing can vastly improve the sawback feature. I made offset teeth much like a saw.If you can touch up the blade frequently, the dulling will not be as severe. The clip bowie is also prone to chipping . There are countless knife links with instructions on sharpening a blade.There are several blade geometries and even more jigs,guides and gizmos to sharpen them with. I settled on the scandinavian grind, a simple "V". It's the easiest to resharpen and idiot proof (me) with practice.<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Being too rough on cutlery - 10/08/01 07:43 PM

Chris, you said that you broke your AF and you have heard of Ka-Bar knives breaking? That's very disheartening. I thought a Ka-Bar would be a good knife to buy, so I bought one a few months ago- everyone said that the 1095 steel was without equal. Do you think that was a bad choice? I wanted a good "work horse" besides my super trusty Leatherman/GI Pocketknife combo. I heard you say that you have a cold steel SAR. Are those better than the Ka-Bar? It's hard to find a decent knife without getting caught up in the testosterone sweepstakes...<br><br><br>Peace and God Bless America<br><br>Chris
Posted by: Chris Kavanaugh

Re: Being too rough on cutlery - 10/08/01 08:11 PM

I like the Ka-bar very much too. The known breakages were two and I've heard of a third. All three were from dropping the knife on a hard surface or using as a pry bar. It is a very popular knife in Australia, where they bob the top guard, drill a lanyard hole and often reshape the handle to a upside down teardrop. My SRK is not without failings. I've heard of the handle rotting with extended use. The epoxy coating on mine disappeared when I field tested it splitting wood. All these knives, AF,Ka-Bar,SRK are still a lot of knife for the cost. Ill take a $29 AF ( or two!) over a $250 Rambo sword anyday. If somebody is just starting to assemble their kit, it makes a lot of sense to get one of these, take the initial savings and buy that water filter, first aid kit, sleeping bag. Knives are for cutting. I think they fail when we turn them into crowbars.<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Sharpening made easy - 10/09/01 01:40 AM

Do you have an example of a type you are talking about? Thanks.<br><br>"Audaces Fortuna Iuvat"
Posted by: Anonymous

Sharpener example - 10/09/01 01:49 PM

>>Do you have an example of a type you are talking about? <<<br><br>I don't own either of these, although they should be excellent. Mine is a simple version sharing the same principle. By the way, the advice here and in the above post is not meant for serrated blades. Those aren't quite as easy to sharpen.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Chris K's Knife Modifications - 10/09/01 04:49 PM

Chris, thanks for the knife advice! I had no idea about the worthless sharpening stone (something I would definitely want to know about).<br><br>A couple more questions, if you don't mind: When you say 'bob' the top guard on the Ka-Bar, what do you mean? Also, when you talk about cutting the upper crossguard on the USAF- why would you want to do that?<br><br>Thanks<br><br>Peace and God Bless America<br><br>Chris
Posted by: Chris Kavanaugh

Re: Chris K's Knife Modifications - 10/09/01 05:44 PM

I'm doing the same thing on both knives. Handguards on bladed weapons have two functions; to prevent your own grip moving forward onto the blade with injury, and to catch an opponents blade. We are " guarding the hand". Since we are only concerned with the first accident for survival, a lower guard is all that is required. this allows articulating the thumb over the knife for more precision cutting. You will notice many knifes are actually stippled,grooved or scalloped for this grip. Of course, if a raccoon waddles towards you with a bayonet, the upper guard is handy. That is why many are made of brass. The softer metal will catch the opponents steel, allowing a twisting counterthrust to disarm or deflect. <br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Sharpener example - 10/09/01 11:33 PM

Thanks for the info. I like the Lansky.<br><br>"Audaces Fortuna Iuvat"
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: New U.S. survival knife - 10/18/01 07:51 PM

I have an odd piece that’s sort of similar. It was made by Phrobis, was sold by Brigade for awhile, and is obviously based on the same tooling as Phrobis’ early contract M9 bayonet (with the fuller and hollow grind) or the EOD knife (M11), but with a shorter 5 1/4” blade, and of course a shorter scabbard. No bayonet ring in the guard or lug catch in the pommel (both like the Lan-Cay contract EOD knife), no wire cutter, but an unusual hard nylon clip-on belt loop with a swivel that can lock the loop in several positions. Overall feel is something like a cross between the M9 bayonet and the Air Force Survival Knife- which isn't bad.<br><br>Phrobis has gotten some bad press since Lan-Cay took over all the M9 contract production (and the M9 blades keep getting heavier and heavier), but it certainly seems serviceable enough. I had stashed it and forgotten it until just recently- never really used it. The heft inspires confidence, but for the length of blade, it’s one big, bulky knife/sheath combination. <br>
Posted by: Chris Kavanaugh

Re: New U.S. survival knife - 10/18/01 09:19 PM

I briefly owned a German version of the Kalishnikov bayonet. It actually had a diode in the scabbard that illuminated if you were cutting a live wire. I gratefully sold it to a collector! Increased weight usually indicates attempts at increasing strength. This can be good or bad. If a two lb. version fails at the same point as the 1lb, then there has been a degradation in metallurgy. Overall gear load is a consideration, be you Airforce loadmaster or hoisting a backpack.The best knive is always the one you just bought, and the one in the latest catalog wink
Posted by: Chris Kavanaugh

Re: Being too rough on cutlery - 10/24/01 06:20 PM

Chris, I just received a fascinating education on k-bars from a retired marine gunny. There are three contractors; K-bar, Camillus and Ontario, plus assorted knock off copies.There are some very subtle differences in the three milspec contractors. The Ontario are the worst offendors for snapping ( common), followed by Camillus( occassionally) and Kbar ( almost never). Of course, to snap one you would have to drop it on a hard surface, or do some heavy prying. It's all a matter of the Tang's robustness and finall assembly. Again, these are fine knives for $50.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Being too rough on cutlery - 10/25/01 01:39 AM

I hate to be picky, but only Ka-Bar makes Ka-Bars. Everything else is a Mk2 Combat/Utility Knife of questionable lineage. smile