Water Purification

Posted by: GoatMan

Water Purification - 06/10/20 02:02 AM

I was reading on Ready.gov recently and read something that caught me by surprise. On the page that talks about water storage and purification, it discusses boiling, chlorination and distillation. The last paragraph under Chlorination, it states:

Quote:
"Other chemicals, such as iodine or water treatment products sold in camping or surplus stores that do not contain 5.25 or 6.0 percent sodium hypochlorite as the only active ingredient are not recommended and should not be used."


Products like Katadyn Micropur MP1 contains:
Sodium Chlorite 6.4%
Sodium Dichloroisocyanurate 1.0%

Potable Aqua contains:
Tetraglycine Hydroperiodide 6.68%

Aquamira contains:
Chlorine Dioxide 2.0%
Phosphoric Acid Activator 5.0%

** What do you all think of Ready.gov's statement as it pertains to these products?
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Water Purification - 06/10/20 02:13 AM

As far as I am concerned, boiling is preferable. My backup is a filter.
Posted by: dougwalkabout

Re: Water Purification - 06/10/20 03:17 AM

I have always understood iodine and chlorine dioxide water disinfection to be quite effective, when used properly.

And "when used properly" may be the key issue: when making recommendations for a mass population, you basically aim for the greatest good with the least harm. Let's face it, some people don't sweat the details in normal times, and in crisis that won't change for the better.

Iodine used improperly can be ineffective. It can also be poisonous. Anything in tablet form presents a poisoning hazard to children. You get the picture.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Water Purification - 06/10/20 03:30 AM

I assume that when you have found a treatment to be effective, it means that you, or your party, did not suffer any ill effects.

If that is the case , I would have to state that no treatment works just fine, because I have drunk untreated water for many years, with no discernible ill effect. I have been lucky, and a lot of my drinking was in the early days, with much less traffic in the back country, and I was drinking from isolated springs and the upper reaches of watersheds.

I have heard of a study which concluded that most cases of giardia, etc. were the result of poor peersonal hygiene, rather than contaminated water.

Older and wiser (?) now, I am more cautious....
Posted by: dougwalkabout

Re: Water Purification - 06/10/20 05:43 AM

It seems to me we are talking about different things. The link given by the OP refers to stay-at-home situations, not wilderness travel in pristine watersheds.

I agree that boiling is preferable when an energy source is readily available.

I recall that iodine tablets were particularly unpleasant, but I used them for lowland situations where boiling was impractical and cattle had access to the rivers. As soon as reliable filters became available, I was happy to dispense with iodine altogether, and have no desire to look back.

I agree with the OP that is surprising that the link provided dismisses everything except household bleach. Other forms of chlorine (tablets, chlorine dioxide) seem to be acceptable for international travellers, as per this link:
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/yellowbook/2020/preparing-international-travelers/water-disinfection
Posted by: williamlatham

Re: Water Purification - 06/10/20 11:19 AM

I am going to agree with dougwlkabout. This is dumbing it down for the masses. The CDC guidelines for wilderness purification:

https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/travel/backcountry_water_treatment.html

are good enough for the backcountry and frontcountry alike. I even disagree with their 1 min boil times when all you need to do is get it above 140F, but whatever. As for chemical contaminants in the frontcountry, none of these are effective anyway.

2 filters, ability to boil, jug of bleach, tincture of iodine, and chlorine dioxide tablets, I think I have it covered after the stored water runs out.
Posted by: dougwalkabout

Re: Water Purification - 06/10/20 12:09 PM

Good link. It's interesting to see how the recommendations keep evolving.
Posted by: Ren

Re: Water Purification - 06/10/20 03:58 PM

Appears there is a typo.

The page is taken from

https://www.amazon.com/Are-You-Ready-Depth-Preparedness/dp/1510750770

Which reads

"Other chemicals, such as iodine or water treatment products sold in camping or surplus stores that do not contain 5.25 to 6.0 percent sodium hypochlorite as the only active ingredient are not recommended and should not be used."
Posted by: GoatMan

Re: Water Purification - 06/17/20 06:10 PM

Your quoted text from Amazon or the book is word for word what is on Ready.gov.

In general, a water filter is my go to if I plan on needing additional water on an outing. Purification tablets are my backup while on the trail or what is carried in an emergency when no additional water is planned as needed. By planning ahead, you never need them, but it is good to have them available.

I never boil. Takes too long and utilizes resources I plan for use elsewhere. Filters are instant, weigh less than a stove or extra fuel. And when I take a stove, I only use it for cooking. Yea, you can use an alcohol stove, they have their place. But why waste the fuel. Modern filters are small and don't have the bulk & weight issues old ones did.

Posted by: TeacherRO

Re: Water Purification - 06/17/20 10:57 PM

Originally Posted By: GoatMan

In general, a water filter is my go to if I plan on needing additional water on an outing. Purification tablets are my backup while on the trail or what is carried in an emergency when no additional water is planned as needed. By planning ahead, you never need them, but it is good to have them available.

....Modern filters are small and don't have the bulk & weight issues old ones did.



Agreed. A sawyer filter is small, easy to use and cheap -- around $25
Posted by: dougwalkabout

Re: Water Purification - 06/18/20 02:32 AM

Trending back to the OP, though, the focus is on bug-in as opposed to super portable outdoor use.

For home use, I would start to look at the Berkey line of filters. Anybody used one?
Posted by: GoatMan

Re: Water Purification - 06/18/20 06:31 PM

Originally Posted By: TeacherRO

...A sawyer filter is small, easy to use and cheap -- around $25

Amen. That is what I use.


The original post was more a general question. Ready.gov's page is geared more for staying at home, but covers both bugging in and bugging out preparation.

I have never used a Berkey filter. Though for home water purification, I plan to rely on inline filters in multiple Reliance Aqua-Tainers I have. That and I keep fresh bleach on hand and drink mixes to offset the flavor.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Water Purification - 06/18/20 10:09 PM

In 1993, I was fortunate enough to be invited on a cave exploration and mapping expedition in Guizhou province, China. Our food and beverages were prepared by local cooks. I have no idea what the water sources were - perhaps the rice paddies?

Twelve of us were there for thirty days. A certified EMT at the time, I was prepared to handle lots of diarrhea cases. We had no occurrences. AFAIK, our water was treated only by boiling.

Boiling might or might not be all that convenient, but it is effective.
Posted by: CJK

Re: Water Purification - 06/18/20 11:42 PM

We have a Berkey....WE LOVE IT!!!!! 4.5 gallon model. Absolutely fantastic peace of mind as well.

It is ASTOUNDING what that bugger can filter out!
Posted by: EMPnotImplyNuclear

Re: Water Purification - 06/19/20 02:58 AM

Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
Trending back to the OP, though, the focus is on bug-in as opposed to super portable outdoor use.

For home use, I would start to look at the Berkey line of filters. Anybody used one?



https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/big-berkey-water-filter-system/
After 50 hours of research and independent lab testing of the Berkey’s claims, our test results—and those of another lab we spoke with, and a third whose results are public—were not entirely consistent, which we feel further illustrates the importance of certification to the firm NSF/ANSI standard: It lets people make buying decisions based on a real, dependable apples-to-apples comparison of performance. In addition, because the Berkey system is larger, more expensive, and harder to use than many water filtration options—which also have the benefit of independent NSF/ANSI certification—we wouldn’t recommend it to most people looking for a water filtration solution.
Posted by: williamlatham

Re: Water Purification - 06/19/20 03:47 PM

One system that most probably have never heard of is a reverse osmosis system that is made for aquarium use. Something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0043FYJ8M/?tag=aquariumadviser4-20

It runs off of household water pressure rather than a high pressure system. Can generate 50 to 100 gallons per day of RO water. I used to have one when I kept marine reef aquariums. Yes it does require water pressure which may or may not be available. Something to think about though.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Water Purification - 06/19/20 07:46 PM

This is all very fine, but attention is focused on germs and illness they can cause. Especially in a disruptive event, you may well have to deal with other contaminants - petroleum products, chemicals, etc. from various sources, and all that.

I like to stash water beforehand....
Posted by: Phaedrus

Re: Water Purification - 06/19/20 08:16 PM

Yeah, if we're talking preparation for the home there's little reason not to keep at least a bit of water on hand. It's so cheap as to be nearly free but priceless when you need need it. It may be impractical for most folks to keep hundreds of gallons but even 20-30 gallons will fit in even a small apartment and could make a big difference during a disaster.
Posted by: EMPnotImplyNuclear

Re: Water Purification - 06/22/20 11:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Phaedrus
Yeah, if we're talking preparation for the home there's little reason not to keep at least a bit of water on hand. It's so cheap as to be nearly free but priceless when you need need it. It may be impractical for most folks to keep hundreds of gallons but even 20-30 gallons will fit in even a small apartment and could make a big difference during a disaster.

Yup
The math checks out wink
4 cases of 6 gallons stacked in corner,
like an extra person in the room (or hiding in a closet)


1 rooms 24 gallons
2 rooms 48 gallons
3 rooms 72 gallons

This is very conservative way to add weight to apartments
given the internet wisdom
"Aquariums up to 55 gallons can be placed almost anywhere without much worry at all."
Posted by: Phaedrus

Re: Water Purification - 06/23/20 01:15 AM

Nice! That would be a pretty good reserve.
Posted by: TeacherRO

Re: Water Purification - 06/23/20 10:18 PM

I use both stored water and a basic filter.
Posted by: TeacherRO

Re: Water Purification - 01/12/21 12:24 AM

Is anyone using a Steripen?
Posted by: chaosmagnet

Re: Water Purification - 01/12/21 01:40 AM

Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
Is anyone using a Steripen?


I carry one in my primary emergency kit, but I’ve only used it on tap water to test it.
Posted by: Blast

Re: Water Purification - 01/12/21 03:48 PM

Originally Posted By: EMPnotImplyNuclear
[quote=Phaedrus]
The math checks out wink
4 cases of 6 gallons stacked in corner,
like an extra person in the room (or hiding in a closet)

1 rooms 24 gallons
2 rooms 48 gallons
3 rooms 72 gallons

This is very conservative way to add weight to apartments
given the internet wisdom
"Aquariums up to 55 gallons can be placed almost anywhere without much worry at all."


My experience with standard gallons of water is they tend to develop leaks. I've moved to a 55 gallon, food-grade, poly drum and three 7-gallon Aquatainers filled with water, thankfully because I have room for them.
-Blast

Posted by: EMPnotImplyNuclear

Re: Water Purification - 01/14/21 12:31 AM

Originally Posted By: Blast

My experience with standard gallons of water is they tend to develop leaks. I've moved to a 55 gallon, food-grade, poly drum and three 7-gallon Aquatainers filled with water, thankfully because I have room for them.
-Blast


Hi
standard gallons? as in milk jugs?
I've had those leak, in the bathroom and on patio.
Both actual milk jug and distilled water jugs.

This is regular bottled water plastic bottle in 1 gallon size, inside a cardboard box for stacking

Posted by: Blast

Re: Water Purification - 01/14/21 02:21 AM

Okay, in my case it was standard 1-gallon jugs of water. Hopefully yours are more durable.
-Blast
Posted by: RayW

Re: Water Purification - 01/14/21 11:27 PM

I don't know how long you can store water in the bottles that EMP.. Posted. But the bottles are far more durable than the milk jug style containers. The one in that type that is currently wedged between the tool box and bed side in the back of the truck has been there for over 6 months without leaking. The milk jug style does not last very long at all in the back of the pickup.
Posted by: TeacherRO

Re: Water Purification - 02/10/21 09:06 PM

I am trying out the lifestraw water bottle.