New Solar Kit

Just got a 100w Solar Kit from Harbor Freight (usual disclaimers on all named companies and products). Got the kit with the panels, charge controller, and also got a 35 amp hour battery. Haven't set up yet but am happy that i know I'll be able to charge the phones, tablet, Ipod (music), portable DVD and am looking for a 'small' digital battery TV, and to run battery fans. I'll try to update but don't think I'll be operable for a bit (other commitments). If you have any questions I'll be happy to try to answer them. So far it looks good.

A great resource on solar is is solarpaneltalk.com

My strategy has been to standardize on AA batteries, and use battery chargers with 12v car adapters to charge them

I don't plan to run any large appliances, only keep small electronics, 2-way radios, etc going

+1 on Ratch's comment on standardizing to AA (NiMH)... after 2004 I switched to Eneloop AAs for my area, task and head lights, weather alert and AM/FM radios... while I have a 7W Goal Zero charger, I used a power strip to connect multiple NiteCore chargers when I ran the generators keeping the computer, TV, and refrigerator up for Irma, the solar is relegated to a back up position ... if you live in storm country, invest in a generator

By the same token, if you live in sunny, earthquake prone California, a solar rig makes more sense. I keep a couple of small panels in an ammo can, along with other solar goodies, so that they will come through the anticipated Big One still functional, or at least will have a better chance than a genny. My post quake initial strategy will be to attempt to stay on my property, essentially camping out next to my ruined home, using solar to keep small stuff (lights and phones) running. I was easily able to take my solar stuff with me when we did our recent wildfire evac, although I never needed to deploy the panels.

Both generators and solar are useful to have. The genset is nice to have for regular power outages in snow country. But I believe in having a backup in solar. Mine consists of USB AA chargers that run directly off solar, and also larger panels that will charge a 12v agm battery, that can in turn power some small led lights, or run a aa battery charger. If you are interested in solar, goal zero, solarpaneltalk, and modernoutpost are a few good sites.

I realize that I have a generator sitting in our driveway - our Prius! Checking around, it seems that it is feasible to hook up an inverter and draw AC from the vehicle. Apparently the larger battery will top off the starter battery as it depletes and the engine will turn on automatically to replenish the propulsion battery.

Anyone have experience/sxpertise with something like this? I am definitely not an electrical engineer...

Regrading the Prius-- This is possible.
However, there are some issues to keep in mind.
1) your draw is going to be limited. In my last car, the fuse on the lighter plug was a 10 amp--- which means 10 amp * 12 volts- 120 watts. Surge over 120 watts can blow out that fuse, breaking your system. This will not happen charging a phone, but do not plug in anything big.

2) Are you willing to leave your car ""running"" with the keys in the ignition? The ignition must be in the on position for this to work, otherwise you are just killing the starter battery. Maybe keep it in the garage, but run a pipe to outside for exhaust like a Car Shop? Sit in car while charging? Not nice to have a generator that can literally drive away.....


Regarding Generator vs Solar. I kinda think this is size dependent, and time-frame dependent.

Small and long term Solar wins hands down. I have a 21 watt Aukey I bought on Amazon (now 45.00, I got for 34 on sale). It will charge 2 devices at 2 amps each; no gas, no noise, good for a decade. It is only USB, so will not charge 12 voice stuff, but for small/camping, do not care. Not perfect, I have 2 or 3 of those 10$ 4000Mah battery thingies for rainy days.

Big and short= generator. I have a 1200 watt Menard's Special; will run my fridge and freezer, will run 5 hours on tank, have a 5 gallon can that I dual use for lawnmower and generator to keep fresh.


Big and LONG?.... ick.
I have several larger Solar panels and batteries that I have play--- unm... I mean EXPERIMENTED with. Hypothetically, I could run either my fridge or my freezer (not both) indefinitely, or at least until the gold cart batteries die of old age. I did the freezer for 24 hours as a test, no issues.

frankly, the parts for the solar cost more than just buying gas would have cost (assuming I can get gas) between the panels, charge stuff and batteries, though WAY cheaper than 10 years ago.

Frankly, a 50 watt panel, a 15$ controller, and a golf cart battery could charge all the small stuff in a house for less than 200$ phones, tablets, laptops, smaller AA,AAA,D....

Yes I have run the house off of our Prius. Just clipped a 12VDC to 230VAC inverter to the 12V battery and connected the output to the house via the generator/grid change over switch.

The Prius is turned on as 'ready' and sits in the driveway locked.

As the house consumes power the 12V battery is recharged via the car's DC:DC inverter from the 5kWh traction battery. When the traction battery is low the engine starts and runs for 10-15 minutes and charges it up then shuts down for an hour or so. The output is limited by a 100A fuse in the DC:DC inverter so a 12VDC inverter limit of 1,000W is recommended. Fuel consumption was less than half a litre an hour, about a pint. It will of course vary with the demand on the 12VDC inverter. A full tank will run for days and overall the whole rig is very quiet.

One kilowatt obviously won't do everything but is enough for lighting, refrigeration and entertainment.

My inverter is a 'modified square wave' which is not that good, so I had to disconnect the mains powered smoke and CO alarms as their instructions say they are sensitive to supply waveform.

I forgot to add.
We have 6kWp of solar but it is grid tied. When in grid out I try to connect it directly to the house, the Prius rig or to the Honda generator, the system voltage hunts up and down violently and quickly shuts down the solar inverter. It really needs the buffer of a live grid to work properly.

Thank you both for the helpful replies. I am thinking of using the "Prigenny" during the aftermath of an earthquake when the roads may well not be derivable and we would just be keeping the frig happy, hopefully with internet access...

My apologies....I had planned on adding more info but time constraints at the time kept that from happening. Again standard disclaimer...

We have a Thunderbolt Magnum 100w solar charging kit. Comes with 'everything you need' to 'start up' except the battery (again a 35 amp hour). It is 'small' self contained and independent of everything else.

During Irma we watched as neighbors ran out of gas. Having this will ensure our small electronics and fans are good to go for the duration. Also got a 'float charger' to keep up the battery...added benefit is that it will keep our ride on mower good to go too.

The kit has the solar panels, charge controller (with 2 built in USB spots) and two LED light bulbs (plus all the wires). Think 60 watt bulb and you have an idea. One will light up the entire room (especially aimed upwards towards the ceiling). Our small lanterns are good for the immediate area lighting. The bulbs will be good for 'we really need to SEE' everything.

Obviously it can REALLY be tested until an outage. Plans are that the the float charger will keep everything ready (in the battery) and when the power goes out we'll charge off that. Then the panels will charge the battery.

Preliminary (VERY INFORMAL) 'test'...had one single 25w panel laying down inside on the couch in front of a North facing window (about 5pm)...registered about 4-5 volts output. Just standing it up facing out the North window and the voltage jumped to about 8-9 volts. When I took it outside and faced the sun...25 volts. Sun was very low in the sky. So no REAL test but I'm optimistic.

Again standard disclaimer...
Trying to put in the link if anyone interested.

https://www.harborfreight.com/100-watt-solar-panel-kit-63585.html

Check with a solar specialist that is not associated with your power company. I'm guessing that you are set up to sell the excess capacity back to the power company. If so, it's set up so that when the grid is down, you don't feed power to lines that they think are cold. A solar specialist or electrician should be able to set up something like the transfer switch used for a generator.

IIRC off grid solar uses a battery bank & charger to smooth the voltage being fed to an inverter.

UT..... completely isolated. Battery. NO tie in to the grid WHATSOEVER. We wanted something completely free of anything else.

CJK
If I go solar, I'd be going BIG & trying to find someone that could combine what you've got and what Ian has. Many (most or maybe all) grid tied systems are set up without storage and wired so that if power on the grid side is down, you don't have power either. Combining the two would allow you to keep power at your property and also sell any excess to the power company.

Possible problem I've heard is that some places won't allow it's use in a mass outage as the backfeed from solar to grid may be an issue. Not sure how they 'monitor' this but...

(UK requirements.)

Maximum export per phase 16A, so most domestic properties are limited to 3.68kW@230V. My inverter will accept up to 24A@230V but is export capped at 16A. I could add another phase or two but that would need a second inverter per phase. Expensive, unless you are a commercial operation.

If a generator is fitted, the premises must have a break before make grid/generator supply changeover switch, manual or automatic to prevent backfeed to the grid, no suicide leads!

My inverter works only grid tied, I will need a different inverter to go off grid, expensive luxury and no feed-in tariff.

Back to the small scale items. Luci inflatable solar lights are a good addition for camping and emergency preps. They are a self contained usit with solar panel, battery, and light in a small round package that can be inflated for an area light or lantern. Fairly cheap - around $15 most places. I have used them satisfactorily during power outs and for camping.

I was thinking something like the transfer switch used with generators. Maybe a relay held closed by the grid power so that if the power is off, it isolates the house system.

I had thought about that too.... for the theory. Sounds good. For us...TOO expensive for too little return. with a larger system....maybe. We're just looking for the the very 'portable' (relatively speaking) we can set up and keep small things going.

If the house was turned the right way (roof ridge line runs north-south), I'd be thinking run the house on solar and sell excess back to the power company. The main goal being no power outages. As it is, I'd have to either run double panels or put them in the back yard or find a way to turn the panels 90 degrees.

I love the concept of Grid- tied systems for saving money every day, but with few exceptions (hybrid systems) they are useless in outages.


I love the IDEA of full off-grid systems, but the batteries are the weakness; they are expensive for what you can store, and do not last. The newer Lithium type-- Tesla, etc., have more cycles and less weight, but 10 times the cost right now. I worked out the math a few years ago, and it was something like 43 cents per KW, about 4 times retail costs in Nebraska after buying the batteries.


I am a fan of small scale solar for emergencies,(small scale meaning 4 or less golf cart batteries) At 85.00 per battery (about 450 watt hours each) I currently have 2, or 900 watt hours stored. It is enough for lights, fans, and Fridge OR freezer (not both). I do not have the panels mounted full time....

Watt hours? Batteries are usually sold with the C20 amp-hour designation (i.e. how many amps of power can be supplied over 20 hours of connectivity). An $85 golf cart battery - I assume you have Trojan T-105s or something similar? Lithium batteries are very low maintenance and have more useful power and considerably more cycles but are crazy expensive. Roughly 4-5x the initial cost of flooded lead acid. The cheapest lithium battery I can get in Canada is $1200 - for just one 12v 100ah battery. (That's just plain NUTS!)

I am presently upgrading the solar on my teardrop trailer. The manufacturer used cheap components and only a single 100w panel which is not enough for off the grid camping. 2 new 200w panels are on the way, I finalized on the batteries I want to get (two 6v 230ah Surrettes), I've got the MPPT controller, temp sensor and remote programmer. Now I just have to confirm if my current cabling will suffice and upgrade the fuse terminal block. Not quite sure what I am going to do with the old stuff yet - the 12v marine batteries will probably go to my brother fishing lodge; the 10amp Chinese PWM controller is a throw away and the 100w panel may or may not be reused.

I am working on a project at work that if approved will have 24k ft2 of solar which is way more than I need for the building but will be sold back into the grid (I work for the power utility!) I am looking forward to proceeding with this project.

You are correct in that the technologies for battery storage and solar panels are definitely improving and getting cheaper. The next few years appear to be promising for solar.

My younger brother is contemplating building a residence at the farm and basically living off the electrical grid. The quote to bring power lines from 2 miles away is at least 2x what it would cost him to build an off-grid solar array. He is a little cash strapped right now and really needs to invest in a storage shed for the farm equipment first. The house trailer was purchased and is ready to go to site this year.

The power utility will figure it out pretty quickly in an outage. Either they will be surprised and somebody will get shocked at which time they will hunt down the backfeed source and shut you down OR they will test the service wiring first to determine if safe and then hunt you down! At that point you will very likely be the last one on the system to be re-energized.

Yes, a grid-tied system is supposed to have a cut-off inverter switch to prevent backfeeding the grid. But I think a switching inverter is going to set you back quite a bit more money so you can use your batteries during an outage.

It is not so much that they cannot be used; all the LEGAL ones account for this.
Link for reference only; I do not work/sell blah, blah
https://www.altestore.com/store/inverters/hybrid-inverters-c561/

Prices start at near 2,000.00 for the inverter alone, before batteries.


WE are way off the original topic, new solar kit. The Harbor Freight kit does intrigue me as a quick and dirty.

Roarmeister, you mentioned your brother has a way off grid farm.
I would never suggest that this could replace a ""real"" system.

Could the extra 300 Watt/hr to 800 watt/hr be a useful supplement?
(sun hours Saskatchewan (Estevan High 8.3 hrs, Low 3.2 Hrs, Avg 6.0 Hrs)

Is the kit WORTH it? Will it work for years? No idea, do not have one.
I bought the 45 watt kit years ago; Parts of it were cool,some parts sucked. It sounds like the 100 watt kit fixes a lot of the sucky pieces; there is an Actual controller in the 100 watt kit. I like the LED bulbs, the old kit had Fluorescent, they were ok....
The stands for the panels on the old kit were terrible, the new one looks to be more modular, and the panels appear to have better mounting holes.

Yes, I figured the posts had strayed a bit far from the original intent of the thread.

"Way off grid?" - well sorta. He is 2 miles from the nearest power line. In my province, that's peanuts for distance. There are lots of people with well designed off grid solar. Dave wants to put one together to live at the farm; any way you slice it will be cheaper and more effective than a grid-tie in. My other brother operates a fishing camping off the grid north of Yellowknife (Lat 62°) with solar, generator and propane and flies in the fuel to run the equipment but at considerable cost. Panels are aimed almost vertically to capture the sun, but the good things is that during his operating season the sun stays very long in the sky.

FYI, southern Saskatchewan's useful sunhours is closer to 4.2 hours average and a mere 2.7 hours in the winter.

Best of luck/wishes on your expanded solar kit.

Solar power can be a controversial topic. My take is that if power company lines are available, they are the most affordable far and away. However, having been through lengthy power outages, I have wanted some options.

A solar panel running a 30 Ah agm battery can do a lot in terms of charging smaller aa batteries or charging power tools with a D.C. Charger. The harbor freight system might be inexpensive, but it seems to me that's a lot of solar panel square footage to get 100w. You can get a smaller kit from a place like renogy or windy nation etc., say 50 or 60 watt panel, and use it to run a 25-30 Ah lead battery. However, the problem with this, as I've discovered is having to keep that battery charged up and from going dead. Requires some attention, and even an agm battery is not going to last forever.

A better solution, I think, for the frugal prepper wanting to power small devices, is smaller panels charging power packs and the like. Here's some ideas:

Goal zero is pricey but good quality, their USB quick 10 charger (which I've used and it works) will charge 4 aa batteries and can also be used to recharge a phone. Their 14w foldable solar panel will run that quick 10 charger but also can charge small electronics directly. The charger is $40 and the panel is $150

I have a Duracell power pack pro 1300, which functions as a car jump starter, and as a home power source in outages, with a 12v PowerPoint and USB slots. It has an 18Ah agm battery internally and runs $175. Amazon lists a $100 instapark solar panel for it which I have not used. The Duracell has worked well for me.

Also there is on amazon an Anker 21 watt foldable USB solar panel for I think about $50. It can power both small electronics or an anker, or anyone's, powerbank.

These are some ideas I thought I would put a it there. This sort of stuff won't give you easy living in a power outage, but can be used to keep your small electronics, aa lanterns, small short wave and 2-way radios running. I've included prices not to try to sell anyone, but because it does matter to people, and to give an idea of what the outlay is.

Ratch,
I agree with your affordable comment; At this time, grid is cheaper, per watt, than any other solution.

Off Grid, either too far away, or backup is where it is muddy.
If I need a tiny system, The difference between the 100 Watt Harbor and a 100 Watt Renogy sitting on my deck is not big enough to matter.
--If I am trying to generate 5000 Watts an HOUR I want the best panels.


If you have power NOW, screw solar, a house charger is nothing, like 20.00. Buy your 30 Ah battery, plug it in to a good charger and walk away. Lead Acid, Lithium, Nickel Iron, If you can charge it from your house, WHO CARES? lol, seriously, At grid prices 11 cents per 1000 Kw/hrs., like .01 cents per watt.
You have a good point about several smaller sources, instead of one larger battery; You do avoid a single point of failure....

I have my OH CRAP system in my garage, with the batteries plugged in to the grid. No Hail risk, no lighting threats, no stealing, bird poop.....

If you have a solar system plugged in to a 30 AH battery, and are having issues, something is wrong with the setup. Again, Lead Acid, Lithium, whatever. If the system is charging correctly, and not overcharging your battery should be full. If you have stuff hooked up to it for a load, and it is not staying full/topped up, it is not balanced correctly.


When I was testing my Oh Crap with my freezer, I had screwed up my loading calculations-- I did not account for wire losses correctly, and kept running out of power.

Alaska has numerous solar/hybrid power installations in remote off grid locations. The coolest set up I've seen was a house out near McCarthy. A big modern house, out in the middle of nowhere. The guy had a big solar panel, wind turbine, and a gasoline generator linked into a hybrid system. He powered an entire house, including fridge, washer, dryer, etc. It was set up so the gasoline genny would automatically come on when the load exceeded what the solar & battery system could handle.

This guy's set up is the "Cadillac" model, but many remote lodges and cabins in Alaska have something similar. Do a bit of googling and you will find a number of businesses around the state who specialize in installing this sort of remote hybrid system.