New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism

Posted by: TeacherRO

New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 10/20/17 05:37 PM

Reading an essay on planning I realized that we might be planning - and packing , for the wrong thing.

During most events 99% of the time we'll be 'bugging out' to a hotel, friends house or community shelter. Not a spot in the woods.

And if my car breaks down, I'm not walking home. ( ride, rail, stay at work, uber, bike...)

So why am I packing like a Boy Scout? Do I need a water filter, tarp and whet stone?? Its more likely that I'll need a phone charger, contact solution and clean shirt for work.

Thoughts?
Posted by: chaosmagnet

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 10/20/17 05:49 PM

I'm strongly in favor of phone charger, contact lens solution, and clean clothes.

But.

Other than the phone charger and possibly the contact lens supplies, these are more comfort items than survival items. That's not wrong, it's just not all.
Posted by: Montanero

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 10/20/17 05:58 PM

If you are ready for the woods, you are ready for someone's house or a hotel. The only things I would add are more clothes and toiletries.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 10/20/17 06:17 PM

It depends completely upon your situation and environment. What works for the typical urban environment will not play well in, say, Death Valley....There you would do well to emulate the Boy Scouts.
Posted by: Montanero

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 10/20/17 06:33 PM

What works in a rural/wilderness area can still be useful in an urban area, but much that you would carry on a business trip in your suitcase will not help much in the woods. In a larger disaster, you may evacuate, but get stuck on the road out. Or the area you go to could lose power, or suffer from an emergency also. You can still use a tent to camp in a friend's back yard, or even an airport (yes I have seen that done). Some of the tools may not be acceptable in some areas, such as axes, machetes, hatchets, large knives; but I still take them (unless flying).

I generally travel with my usual work clothing, suitable for the climate and the work, and I also carry my emergency stuff. For my house, my family has BOBs with field equipment, and a small duffle with more clothing and more urban stuff.

The principles never change, whether in the wilderness or New York City. You need water, shelter, signaling, heat. Yes, the water purification may be unnecessary, but then again it may be needed. Some refugee shelters I have seen were worse than a wilderness environment.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 10/20/17 09:41 PM

I always make sure I have shoes in which I can walk a goodly distance if required, even if I have to wear "grown-up (business) attire. Usually a pair of sturdy sneakers...
Posted by: Russ

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 10/21/17 02:06 AM

I call that an overnight bag — it comes in a small duffel.

The GHB is for a specific purpose and that is the BIG southern California earthquake that will hopefully arrive after I no longer reside in the #&?$%@ utopia. However, since the EQ is overdue, I’ll continue to stay prepared at the individual and household level. As we have discussed many times, EQ’s are come as you are events. It’s bad form to show up with your pants down.
Posted by: acropolis5

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 10/21/17 03:35 AM

I will begin this reply with an admission, I overpack. I also live very urban , but occasionally drive 50-100 miles in my professional life, to city, surburban and even semi rural locations. I can be working late and in all weather conditions.

In my car (a mid-size SUV, , nice interior but nothing fancy) is a 72 hour bag,ensolite pad, sleeping bag , bivvy bag & walking stick. That’s to keep me alive if I have to walk away, e.g. a Manhattan 9/11 scenario or sleep in the car or rest stop building in a blizzard or other all night road emergency. This bag has a really good pump water purifier that would clean up even urban street puddle water. Lifeboat rations, water bottles, hurricane matches, lighter, tinder, headlamp, compass, first aid kit, extra daily meds, , cash, 550 cord , HD foil blanket, Gorilla tape flat roll, small am-fm radio, silcock key, leather gloves, multi tool, N-95 masks, goggles, trioxane fold-up stove, aluminum qt. pot, etc. are also packed. ( No helmet that I remember. Maybe I should get a plastic construction helmet or throw in my bike helmet)

There are also emergency clothing changes, including boots and hiking gear, blue blazer ,shirt, pants, tie, duffle coat and toiletries/ towel. Usually a shrink wrap with 8 20oz. water bottles is also packed.

There’s also an oversized Trauma kit, in an orange plastic box, because I used to be an EMT on a busy ambulance squad and multilpe casualty scenarios are, unfortunately, a fact of life.

The usual small toolkit, jumper cables, fire extinguisher, reflective triangles, inverter, tire inflator-sealant cans, short handled shovel, heavy plastic bottle of sand, flares, tow strap, etc. are also present. A 4 cell Maglite with LED insert and extra batteries, glasses ( sun & regular), waterproof pad&pen, accident report form, paper area maps, ResQme, folding umbrella,, phone charging cord, old flip cell phone ( without a service , but it will dial 911), snacks and 4 20oz water bottles, are up front.

Finally there is my real just in case gear: lightweight hydrant wrench, camp axe, 24” bolt cutter, 24” crowbar, hacksaw with multipurpose rod blades, 100’ of HD rope, 8’ green tarp, gas mask and filter. Even I see this as overkill.

Am I overstocked- packed? Probably. But, what the heck . None of it is dangerous or illegal and you never can tell....
Posted by: Mark_R

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 10/21/17 10:40 PM

You plan for your risks. If you're in the city, a street map and cash is worth a lot more then a ferrocium rod and a tarp. I'm not saying you'll never need a ferrocium rod and a tarp, but you'll be more likely to need cash and a street map
.
Posted by: M_a_x

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 10/22/17 08:16 AM

I think that planning and packing could follow a three point approach:
  • best case scenario: plan and pack everything you are going to need
  • most likely case scenario: plan and try to pack everything you might need
  • reasonable worst case scenario: plan for it and pack according to your budget in money, bulk and weight


That approach allows to prioritize and have reasonable preparation. The proper packlist will be individual and varying over the seasons anyway. If your worst case scenario does not show the need for water filter, tarp and whet stone don´t pack it.
Posted by: Tirec

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 10/23/17 04:36 PM

Questions to ask:
What scenario are you preparing for?
Why are you leaving your home/office/city/area?
Where will you go?
When will you be returning home?
Who will be coming with you?
How will you be traveling?

I kind of broke my packing list down by groups. If you're evacuating to a family or friend's place your needs will be different than if you're going to a hotel/motel in a different town, or if you're evacuating to a community shelter.

Look at the items that you need or rely on daily, i.e. medications & hygiene items. These are things that you'll need to have available wherever you are. Depending on the event, you may be able to pick them up at a local store.

My categories are:
First Aid
Signal
Shelter
Fire
Water
Tools
Administration (papers, contacts, etc)
Clothing
Security.

I also added a list of things to grab on the way out and where they were.

Depending on how much time you have to evacuate will depend on what you are able to grab. As we saw in the fires in California recently, there was a knock on the door and you were told to leave immediately.
Posted by: Jeanette_Isabelle

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 10/24/17 03:19 PM

I wanted to know how much weight I am carrying. We have a two-pound scale. Therefore, I weighed the emptied bag, most often used items and added it up. Using rounded numbers, it's 8 1/4 pounds.

Jeanette Isabelle
Posted by: Russ

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 10/24/17 04:02 PM

Sounds about right — then add water.
Posted by: Jeanette_Isabelle

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 10/24/17 06:27 PM

The 8 1/4 pounds include an 8-ounce bottle of water.

Jeanette Isabelle
Posted by: Russ

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 10/24/17 07:53 PM

We have different opinions on how much water is required in a GHB. 8 ounces is one glass of water. IMO a GHB needs a lot more than that. In southern California and I imagine central Florida, staying hydrated should be a priority. The target for my GHB is 4 liters.
Posted by: Jeanette_Isabelle

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 10/24/17 09:07 PM

The 8-ounce bottle of water I mentioned is what's in my EDC bag. I carry an additional bottle of water which is refillable with any drinking fountain.

Jeanette Isabelle
Posted by: TeacherRO

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 12/05/17 07:35 PM

I think a container is more important. Then you can choose when to fill it for the long bus ride home. An empty liter water bottle or two in each of my cars
Posted by: Byrd_Huntr

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 12/23/17 04:50 AM

Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
I think a container is more important. Then you can choose when to fill it for the long bus ride home. An empty liter water bottle or two in each of my cars
Unlike the arrid regions, water is plentiful here but keeping a bottle in the truck in winter isn't possible as it freezes solid in a few hours and destroys the steel container it's in. I try to carry a full stainless steel bottle in and out with me, but sometimes it gets left behind. I have an empty SS bottle in the kit at all times, and a Katadyn filter. As I age, the importance of this piece of gear increases. It makes getting stuck in traffic more bearable. Fortunately, they come in olive green also...
Posted by: hikermor

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 12/23/17 02:36 PM

"You never purchases water. You just rent it." How true!

In an immediate urban evacuation, your top priorities are water and cash. It is hard to have too much of either. Other categories mentioned are important as well, and highly desirable, but at a short distance from the incident, life goes on as normal (except in a major earthquake or widespread storm).

My preference in water containers is a stainless steel cup holding a liter canteen (usually the classic Nalgene, but there are various drink bottles which will fit as well). Plastic containers won't crack unless completely filled and you can make coffee/tea/etc to your heart's content in the cup. Now we need a small stove....sugar?....
Posted by: Byrd_Huntr

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 12/23/17 06:48 PM

Soft plastic, like one-use water bottles, don't crack but the frozen water inside is not immediately available to drink either. Quicker to melt snow in an emergency than wait for clear hard block ice to melt in the car. Hard plastic will split open and steel will split or warp if left in the vehicle overnight. I have several 18 oz Kleen Kanteens (which are always in a neoprene insulated sleeve) that I had to pound the bottom back in with a hammer so they would stand on end again. I have a small pot and an Esbit stove in the back just in case. In wintertime in this climate (-10 F and breezy this weekend) , staying warm and having suitable spare outerwear, footwear, hats, gloves, is more important than food or water for the short term.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 12/23/17 09:43 PM

I also would much rather melt snow than thaw a water bottle, but I routinely hard freeze recycled Gatorade bottles and nalgenes, taking care not to fill them to the brim, to use them as cooling agents in ice chests, with no ill effects. I should get in the habit of storing a few in my freezer to keep things cool during power outages.

One thing about Gatorade and similar beverages, the bottles often have a bunch of wrinkles and corrugations which would seem to be able to expand during the freezing process. You can't beat the replacement price if they should go bad for any reason.
Posted by: TeacherRO

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 01/17/18 08:11 PM

...And never store cans or bottles in a car which will freeze.
Posted by: CANOEDOGS

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 01/18/18 07:52 PM

and why not?i would rather have 10 cans of frozen pork and beans than none at all.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 01/18/18 10:51 PM

Dealing with solidly frozen canteens is simple. Leave them about ten percent below capacity....Frozen canned goods would depend upon their water content. If a can ruptures, handle with care and cook thoroughly.
Posted by: TeacherRO

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 01/23/18 07:36 PM

Originally Posted By: CANOEDOGS
and why not?i would rather have 10 cans of frozen pork and beans than none at all.


Soda and beer tend to explode when frozen.
Posted by: TeacherRO

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 03/06/18 10:41 PM

...and even if you are 20 and fit, you're not carrying an 88 liter bag any distance.
Posted by: TeacherRO

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 06/05/18 12:30 AM

I find my kit changes quite a bit with weather and season; you don't need a sleeping bag rated to zero degrees on a hot Summer day in Detroit...
Posted by: TeacherRO

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 07/04/18 11:33 PM

Like many of us I keep a GHB in my car, along with a change of clothes.
( though its more likely I'd just sleep at work.)
Posted by: brandtb

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 07/05/18 04:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Byrd_Huntr
Soft plastic, like one-use water bottles, don't crack but the frozen water inside is not immediately available to drink either. Quicker to melt snow in an emergency than wait for clear hard block ice to melt in the car. Hard plastic will split open and steel will split or warp if left in the vehicle overnight. I have several 18 oz Kleen Kanteens (which are always in a neoprene insulated sleeve) that I had to pound the bottom back in with a hammer so they would stand on end again. I have a small pot and an Esbit stove in the back just in case. In wintertime in this climate (-10 F and breezy this weekend) , staying warm and having suitable spare outerwear, footwear, hats, gloves, is more important than food or water for the short term.


My solution to this is a plastic coffee container similar to this -

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/2...-donuts-coffees

filled with 4-oz sealed foil water packs. My location - S.E. Pennsylvania - has rare Winter periods of extended below-freezing weather.

In the other three seasons I keep recycled 1-ltr soda bottles filled with water.

Edited to add - The coffee container is not in my GHB. It is separate in the trunk of the car, ready to be used or the foil packs transferred to the bag or put into a folded Dromedary bag.
Posted by: brandtb

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 07/05/18 04:40 PM

Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
I find my kit changes quite a bit with weather and season; you don't need a sleeping bag rated to zero degrees on a hot Summer day in Detroit...


Speaking of hot weather, I have several items with electronics (example - a red dot sight)that I believe would be damaged by extreme heat. I keep these items in a small thermos and in very hot weather only put then in the trunk when I leave home and take it out when I return.
Posted by: ireckon

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 07/06/18 12:41 AM

If there is a hotel or similar around for me to swipe my credit card, I don’t consider that a survival situation, or at least it would not be difficult to improvise and stay alive.

Maybe we should have a sub-forum “Equipped to be Comfortable”.
Posted by: Montanero

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 07/06/18 01:42 AM

It is just using the available resources to the best of your ability. If you are properly equipped, what could have been a survival situation becomes an unplanned night of camping.

Be aware of what is available and know how to use it.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 07/06/18 01:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Montanero
It is just using the available resources to the best of your ability. If you are properly equipped, what could have been a survival situation becomes an unplanned night of camping.

Be aware of what is available and know how to use it.


Excellent, and crucial, point. There is a continuum, ranging from delightful outings to camping trips with fatalities. Sometimes you have to endure melted ice cream, or,even worse, someone forgot the coffee. Eventually one learns to take a flashlight, even though the hike should end well before dark - also matches and extra water, etc.

Most of us learn this the hard way (myself definitely included) without suffering dire consequences...
Posted by: Montanero

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 07/06/18 05:34 PM

Whoever forgets the coffee is already in a life or death survival situation if they are with me.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 07/06/18 07:47 PM

You are safe with me.. Via packets are in all my emergency kits, partly for morale and partly because a bit of a caffeine boost might be just the ticket is some situations.
Posted by: Russ

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 07/06/18 08:10 PM

... “because a bit of a caffeine boost might be just the ticket” ... every day first thing in the morning. Fixed it, you can thank me later smile

I keep Via in the truck’s food stock.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism - 07/06/18 08:17 PM

You are absolutely right...Mea culpa...I stand corrected.

I must not have had enough coffee this morning.