From the thread on using a lens for fire starting, and from other comments, it seems that many of us (me definitely included) carry more than one means of lighting a fire. While I am not a fan of redundancy because it can make for an unnecessarily heavy pack, more than one means of lighting up seems like a good idea..
I began getting out in Arizona some sixty years ago, and it was simple then. You carried matches to light a fire, from materials gathered along the trail. With time, we shifted to stoves - my first ever REI purchase in 1964 was a Primus 71L stove and cookset, elements of which are still in use today. For the last several years, I have carried a canister stove and traditional campfires are a rarity, for various reasons.
Still emergencies do arise, and a good Boy Scout is always prepared. Here is what I have in my "core bag" to get a fire going: Bic lighter in Exotac case, 25 storm proof matches in Exotac XL case, 2nd Bic lighter, also encased; beeswax candle in tin. I also carry a LMF knife which works great with canister stoves. My cook set and stove usually has yet another lighter for routine use.
This is probably a bit excessive, and I think I will ditch the second lighter, but I offer it as an example to get the discussion started. I'll bet this group can improve on this selection and develop something virtually foolproof.
Yet another consideration. I began using the LMF recently when spending time in an environment where a wild fire would have been all too easy to start and hugely disastrous. The spark easily ignited the gas stove while also dissipating quickly - safety first!!
What is the best combination of items, so that one can absolutely, positively spark flame in a controlled manner when needed? This should probably include tinder materials as well.
What is the best combination of items, so that one can absolutely, positively spark flame in a controlled manner when needed? This should probably include tinder materials as well.
I'm not convinced that this is the "best" combination of items, but the last time I updated our emergency kits I built what I called the "Fire Now!" module for each of them.
I've been successful starting Tinder-Quik with every kind of spark-producer I've ever tried. The Tinder Cards are harder to light but seem to burn longer and hotter, potentially bridging the gap between tinder and kindling.
This packs down to a small size in a quart freezer bag. If I can't get a fire going with that stuff I've probably got bigger problems.
As a side comment: A few years back I was out walking the dog in the park on a rare frosty SOCAL morning and I saw a piece of yellow against the green grass. So I investigated further to find a yellow Bic lighter which was covered in frost. Picked it up dropped it in my pocket and continued the walk. After I got home I pulled out the Bic and tried lighting it. I had fire on the second strike -- good lighter, field tested overnight on a cold wet lawn. It is in my fire kit tin.
Its kind of an odd looking thing, but I've come to like the Storm Candle Lighter over other lighters (Bic, Solo Storm, ...).
It has a pull-out extendable tube which makes it much easier to get the flame into the tinder bundle (usually lots of little twigs smaller than a match with a piece of Vaseline covered cotton ball in the middle).
It provides a Bic-like soft flame, which may not be so wind-proof, but its easy enough to block the wind while lighting.
It also may not operate well at altitude, but in the midwest I'm operating at all of 800 feet above sea level, so its just fine.
Disclaimer: I've only had to make an emergency fire once, after my son fell into a frozen river on a hike one very bitter windy winter day. We don't have fires very often, and in that instance, we had our canteen stoves and Esbit tabs to cook with. He needed much more warmth than that and he needed it NOW.
I'm a fan of three primary methods of getting a flame or spark, and usually carry all three in the non-summer: I've always got a BIC or mini BIC in a pocket, as well as in my fire kits. There's a ferro rod in all my kits too. I often have it on a lanyard attached to my body or attached to my knife or it's sheath. Storm-proof matches proved their worth to me that day at the creek with my son, when my own frozen finger couldn't work my BIC.
For me, the bigger concern is having dependable tinder, that's ready to go. That day at the creek, all the wood I could find was frozen, and the wind was howling. I needed good sustainable tinder to get that fire started. My fire kits generally contain cotton tampons, jute twine, fatwood, birch bark and a WetFire cube or two. I've always got lip balm in my pocket too, to extend the life of my tinder. I think I used them all that day.
As I foraged for firewood that day, and split branches with my knife to make different sized kindling and fuel, I directed him to take off his wet stuff and put on the back-ups he carries in his pack. After some quick but decent fire prep, I got that fire going, made him some hot chocolate, we roasted marshmallows, ate some cookies, and he and his gear warmed up and dried out. The fire may not have saved his life, but it sure felt like it did. He never made it past the shivering stage of immersion hypothermia and I don't like to think about what would have happened if he didn't.
EDIT RE: Redundancies - I tried to use the BIC in my pocket to light the fire first. Couldn't make it work. Wasn't sure if it was my fingers or the lighter, so I tried my back-up lighter. No go again. By now my fingers were definitely a problem. Grabbed the UCO storm-proof matches and they worked like a charm. In retrospect, my ferro rod probably would have worked, given the tinder I had. I decided against it because I couldn't find my scraper and didn't want to risk cutting my shivering self with my knife.
I also carry a LMF knife which works great with canister stoves. My cook set and stove usually has yet another lighter for routine use. I began using the LMF recently when spending time in an environment where a wild fire would have been all too easy to start and hugely disastrous. The spark easily ignited the gas stove while also dissipating quickly - safety first!!
I've had my LMF knife for a few years now and I've come to love it. Light, on the small side for a fixed blade, razor sharp, comfortable grip and up to every task I've asked of it, and relatively inexpensive.
I find the ferro rod a little finicky to get in and out of the handle, so I didn't buy one for my son when he was ready for a fixed blade because I was 100% confident that he'd get frustrated with and probably lose it. Without it, the knife isn't as comfortable in-hand. (Even if it's a back-up, I want him to practice with and be comfortable with it before he needs it.)
FWIW, I really like them but haven't restocked since my initial purchases. (All mine came in Doug's AMK PSKs, BTW. Thanks Doug!) I replaced them with tampons. Not sure how the cost-effectiveness compares, but they are dual purpose for me, and I buy them anyway. Add a little lip balm and they burn pretty effectively. They're also LOADED with tinder and easy to split up to get a two or more fires out of. Sometimes, you don't need a whole one so why not ration?
" Storm-proof matches proved their worth to me that day at the creek with my son, when my own frozen finger couldn't work my BIC."
I count about three occasions that qualify as real emergency fire lighting situations. Light that fire or else--i believe in every case I used matches. Matches are kind of old school, but they will ignite (if kept dry) with fairly gross motions, the kind I can manage as I descend into hypothermia.....
The stormproof varieties available today are definitely more reliable than the standard match of twenty years ago, which was much better than what is marketed today.
having had a broken wrist for the last 7 weeks i'm oddly interested in this now! my conclusion is; if you have to do anything much to survive; you probably aren't going to.
oh how wise dougs' one handed fire starter and mirror suddenly seem!
note; he's only showing you how to use it one handed, he doesn't actually have a broken arm. unscrewing the match box as he does won't be possible. anything screwed securely, will still be like that when they find your body.
something to bear in mind; try using your techniques and gear one handed.
Test you stormproof matches, not all are created equally. The REI and UCO have always worked well for me, and I demonstrate them for people by dipping them in water and showing how they still burn when pulled out. There are other companies that sell an imitation of them, and they do not work as well. Water does extinguish them. Some major retailers are selling these other brands, just try them before you go out into the wild and need to depend on them.
There seems to an agreement of sorts developing around a three device array - lighter (usually a Bic or Mini-Bic), matches(usually storm proof of some variety) and a steel/striking rod combo (various types here). All three are relatively light and compact, and fairly cheap, especially when compared to their potential benefit.
KenK proposed the Storm Candle Lighter - unfortunately, the link he provides states that REI no longer carries the item. I think I have seen it for sale just a few months ago, so it might still be available.
What to do if you are disabled or impaired and a fire is imperative? Definitely a question worth considering and practicing a bit before hand..
Esbit, cotton balls, Tinder Quik, and Tinder Cards are most frequently mentioned for tinder, just as important as the lighting device. With luck, good tinder can be found, but don't count on that completely....
Has anyone tried super fine #0000 steel wool? I haven't tried it myself, but have read that it will catch a spark from a ferro rod, can be lit with a magnifying glass, or with the battery out of some device you might be carrying. Are these true claims, or internet fantasy?
Sounds intriguing. I'm a little skeptical (does steel really burn?), but I'm also a little hopeful. Some day I'll get around to remembering to try it.
Has anyone tried super fine #0000 steel wool? I haven't tried it myself, but have read that it will catch a spark from a ferro rod, can be lit with a magnifying glass, or with the battery out of some device you might be carrying. Are these true claims, or internet fantasy?
Sounds intriguing. I'm a little skeptical (does steel really burn?), but I'm also a little hopeful. Some day I'll get around to remembering to try it.
Well it glows, so i guess it's burning. It's fast, so i would much rather prefer the good old petroleum jelly and cottonwol.
Tricks with solar never seens to work great and with batteries, you either don't want to short them (because it's your phone battery and you kind of want to be able to still call for help) or you just don't carry them with you?>
My semi-educated guess is that it depends mostly on the humidity of where they're stored. Kept in a waterproof container sealed tight I wouldn't be surprised to have them work after twenty years. However I haven't tested it.
Has anyone tried super fine #0000 steel wool? I haven't tried it myself, but have read that it will catch a spark from a ferro rod, can be lit with a magnifying glass, or with the battery out of some device you might be carrying. Are these true claims, or internet fantasy?
Sounds intriguing. I'm a little skeptical (does steel really burn?), but I'm also a little hopeful. Some day I'll get around to remembering to try it.
Well it glows, so i guess it's burning. It's fast, so i would much rather prefer the good old petroleum jelly and cottonwol.
Tricks with solar never seems to work great and with batteries, you either don't want to short them (because it's your phone battery and you kind of want to be able to still call for help) or you just don't carry them with you?>
I've seen it done successfully on tv, does that count? I Mike and Ruth Hawk used it on an episode of Man, Woman, Wild, and she was quite delighted with it.
Here's a little video clip because I know that at least one of you fellas used to have a crush on her.
My son and I did try using steel wool but I'm no Ruth England. I couldn't get our other tinder to light from it. Turning an ember into flame was (and still is) a skill we're working on, but this just didn't seem worth the effort. As Tjin says, in most scenarios I can imagine, I'd be torn to ruin a perfectly good battery.
It certainly will catch a spark, etc. HOWEVER, it very quickly oxidizes (actually rusts away)in your kit, into a brown powder. I have found NO way to store it in a kit and prevent this: vac. packing, smearing with petroleum jelly, etc. So I don't recommend it.
Although for years I've carried the "3 device array" of bic, storm matches, and firesteel...and made fire with all of them. Now in spite of the "cool factor", I'm thinking of forgetting about the firesteel in the future.
I just don't see a situation where a few extra bic lighters (waterproofed cases) wouldn't be a better choice than a firesteel. I can't imagine a condition where I'd go to the steel if had a working bic or matches.
One of the things I like about using my ferro rod is that I can save my more limited quantities of lighter fuel and matches. It also works when it's wet and it's a little more satisfying. It took a while to get competent with it, but cotton balls, birch bark and my alcohol stove light so easily with a spark, that I've made it my primary method in most instances. My BIC does get a lot of use, because well, it's super easy too. Honestly, on a average day, I don't see either method being easier or more convenient than the other.
Disclaimer: I'm usually out with my kids and want them to practice and be good at all three methods - bic, ferro rod and matches. We're starting to learn flint & steel too, but that's really just for fun and fire prep discipline. I spend more time focusing on teaching them good fire prep, than I do the actual lighting of it.
I was recently in a situation where a firesteel was definitely preferable to either matches or a Bic, though it was a bit unusual.
We were doing along term (two weeks) project on Santa Rosa Island, Channel Islands National Park, camping out for the period. Due to typically high winds and highly flammable ground over (well dried grass typically, especially in the fall) fires are either restricted or highly controlled. We were cooking in a truck bed, using canister stoves and being very careful with burnables. In those conditions, a smoldering match stick or even a hot Bic, dropped inadvertently, could be a hazard. The quick, hot, but very short spark from a LMF knife was perfect - it lit the stove easily, but extinguished very quickly. And we didn't burn the island down - mission accomplished.
In more normal conditions, I would use either a Bic or matches, but the fire steel worked so well that it just might be my preferred choice in the future.
You really MUST have an alternate method from a Bic lighter.
Bic's run on butane which has a vapor point of 0.4C. So they will not work below freezing because the butane can't vaporize.
Thus having a firesteel is a good alternative. It works at any temperature.
OK, you MAY be able to get a Bic to work in below freezing temps if you warm it up using your body heat--in an inside pocket or better, in your arm pit. But you aren't going to be able to do this if you have hypothermia.
In warm weather a Bic is simpler and easier than any other method so it is still my method of choice.
I should have clarified my story above. The first BIC was one of those electric ones, and was carried in my pocket. It worked later so wasn't out of fuel. The second was a mini with the child proof device removed, kept in my fire kit. It wasn't out of fuel either. It may have been the effects of cold on the lighters or on my hands, or the problem may have been my adrenaline.
I have since ditched the electric and up-sized most of my backup BICs to full size, but still carry at least two methods when I'm in the woods.
I can't imagine a condition where I'd go to the steel if had a working bic or matches.
Emphasis on "working". If your BIC works, sure, use it. It will be easier than a firesteel. It's when your BIC doesn't work that you'll be glad you have a firesteel. A firesteel is not "a replacement for", it is "an addition to".
I do find firesteels better than BICs for lighting things like alcohol burners or propane BBQ grills. You don't have to get your hands down there as close and risk getting burned.
Always try them before you go out! Preferably in similar conditions to what you will be facing for real. These grill starters have a good form factor and are usually enough to get a fire going even in wet conditions, if you prep you fire properly.
I don't like to EDC a lighter or matches as they are fragile and quite working after being attached to my key ring after awhile. The fire steel always works.
I leave matches behind, Strike anywhere don't anymore.
For backcountry I bring a bic along with the fire steel and plenty of long burn tinder.
When camping, I have a BIC, fire steel, matches, birch bark, esbit tabs, a candle, trioximine tablets, petroleum cotton balls, and dryer lint. Yes, I could be called insecure....
OK OK.... I give! You all make sense. Back to the firesteel. I will still carry lifeboat matches, 2 bic's, and a Zippo or Peanut flint/wick/fluid lighter (yes... I understand the fuel volatility problem - but I have a reserve tank that's lasted years). I agree that tinder is the real issue: I carry tinderquick and several petroleum jelly/cotton "straws." BTY, I've made fire in sub-zero weather at high elevations with all of these methods. I HAVE had to warm the bic, but not the Zippo.
I've seen some comment on how strike anywhere matches are not the same as before.They are not,at least the Diamond brand Greenlights to be specific.The UCO brand makes a strike any where that is FANTASTIC.They are even better than my old favorite OHIO BLUE TIPS.Struck them on an old glass counter top and they came to light.Also note most all storm proof matches will only light on a striker strip.If they get wet you are out of luck.You will have to wait for it to dry and hope it may work. I carry a BIC in an Exotac case,LMF firesteel,UCO TITAN matches and a Fresnel lens. My tinder is a big hunk of fatwood and PCB's
You dont really need an excuse to carry a ferro rod, but most arguments against butane lighters are silly this is a good read about that Wood Trekker: Ferro Rod vs. BIC Lighter
...but most arguments against butane lighters are silly this is a good read about that...
I don't think anybody has argued AGAINST a butane lighter. The article you linked to uses that as its premise. People here have been arguing FOR a firesteel, not AGAINST a butane lighter. Big difference.
A butane lighter is easier to use than a firesteel. Check. A butane lighter is quicker to use than a firesteel. Check. More people know how to use a butane lighter than know how to use a firesteel. Check. All the points made in the article (at least all the ones I read). Check.
I did not read the entire article, because it was arguing a stupid point. The point is not that a firesteel is A REPLACEMENT, the point is that a firesteel is A BACKUP. The writer of that article didn't seem to grasp that simple point. For a small number of tasks, a firesteel might be a better primary than a butane lighter, but for the most part, it's a secondary.
Nobody said anyone should throw away their butane lighter and carry only a firesteel. But that's what the article's author was arguing. Silly.
...but most arguments against butane lighters are silly this is a good read about that...
I don't think anybody has argued AGAINST a butane lighter. The article you linked to uses that as its premise. People here have been arguing FOR a firesteel, not AGAINST a butane lighter. Big difference.
A butane lighter is easier to use than a firesteel. Check. A butane lighter is quicker to use than a firesteel. Check. More people know how to use a butane lighter than know how to use a firesteel. Check. All the points made in the article (at least all the ones I read). Check.
I did not read the entire article, because it was arguing a stupid point. The point is not that a firesteel is A REPLACEMENT, the point is that a firesteel is A BACKUP. The writer of that article didn't seem to grasp that simple point. For a small number of tasks, a firesteel might be a better primary than a butane lighter, but for the most part, it's a secondary.
Nobody said anyone should throw away their butane lighter and carry only a firesteel. But that's what the article's author was arguing. Silly.
I backup my butane lighter with my backup butane lighter
Izzy convinced me years ago, to get a Ronson butane lighter. Since then, I've always had one in my EDC bag/purse. I don't like them when I'm in the woods, but they work great indoors, so perfect for my day to day EDC. That's what a Canadian girl gets for listening to a Florida boy about making fire in the cold wet North. LOL!
It's pouring rain here again today, and it's got me thinking about this thread and making one of those fires in tough conditions.
One thing I try to always include in my fire kit is a piece of aluminum foil. Finding a dry piece of ground can be really difficult sometimes. I always make a platform out of branches for my campfires, but when it's wet like this they can suck the life out of your tinder. A little something to get it off the ground can really help, and aluminum is one of those tiny and light items that can easily be added to a fire kit. It can also make a great windscreen. I've never tried it, but an Altoids tin type container should work just as well, I suppose.
Shout-out to Wetfire cubes for an emergency fire in these conditions also. They cost more than Esbit, they REALLY stink and they'll put a lot of soot on your cook pots, but they're the most water resistant fuel tab I've tried. Excellent emergency tinder, IMO.
The firesteel is not only a backup. Itīs a bit of redundancy as it has different points of failure. The two major modes of failure for butane lighters that I experienced were leakage (maybe due to inadvertantly opening the valve during storage) and clogging (mainly in rarely used lighters). The firesteel will not suffer either of those. I never had butane lighter that actually stopped working because of used up fuel. I still carry one or two butane lighters anyway.
Most of us seem to prefer to have several options available for starting fires. This is a good thing, because circumstances may render one or another technique more or less feasible than others. What is really important is that one should become proficient with all the tools available. No one technique is absolutely foolproof.
Just as significant is the proper use and deployment of tinder and flammable material in building a nice cheery blaze. The more fires you build, the better you will be when the chips are down. Just make sure those chips are properly arranged, in a nice spot properly sheltered from the wind.
Concur. Having an ignition source is only one part of the equation, be it a Bic, match(es) or a ferro rod. FWIW, I have a Bic and UCO matches. There's also a nice brass zippo lighter and a couple peanut lighters from CountyComm.com -- they're all good. The Bic is primary. I have one of those large ferro rods here someplace, but I never carry it.
The other part of the equation is tinder and prep. I started building fires in a wood-stove used to heat the home when I was a kid in the 60's - rural PNW. Set the fire right -- tinder, kindling and then fuel (alder/birch/maple) and it only takes one match or one short flame from a lighter. You can have the greatest lighter, matches or sparking ability, but if your tinder is damp it won't catch and if the kindling and fuel is not set to continue that small fire, it's just a wasted match. With everything set right, it treally doesn't matter much how you get it started.
It's pouring rain here again today, and it's got me thinking about this thread and making one of those fires in tough conditions.
One thing I try to always include in my fire kit is a piece of aluminum foil. Finding a dry piece of ground can be really difficult sometimes. I always make a platform out of branches for my campfires, but when it's wet like this they can suck the life out of your tinder. A little something to get it off the ground can really help, and aluminum is one of those tiny and light items that can easily be added to a fire kit. It can also make a great windscreen. I've never tried it, but an Altoids tin type container should work just as well, I suppose.
I like waxed paper for the same purpose, and it is also a great tinder.
I think it was the meth heads that ruined the strike anywhere matches. UCO looks to have stopped making theirs too.
I carry a mini bic and firesteel or sparklite when out. But in cold wet conditions, hunting, snow shoeing, winter camping, I always take along a small flare. I've never packed anything more effective in starting a fire fast. Ideal for those emergency conditions. My Walmart carries them, several other sources do as well.
I have a few of those flares, too. Good stuff! I've only used one, a few years ago, to test them to see how well they worked. They work well indeed, burning long and hot.
Flares will definitely do the job, but when cold and wet are in the forecast, I switch to liquid fuel and a stove. the liquid fuel (either white gas or kerosene) will get a roaring fire going, if one is needed. Discretion is advised....
I am nostalgic for carbide lamps, standard equipment for caving until a couple of decades ago. They provided light, heat, and a live flame and you were guaranteed a fire, if necessary.
I will add that even with a road flare proper fire prep is necessary. Just for yucks I used the flare to try get some very green wet wood going- no dice! You still need to get dry or at least dry-ish fuel to successfully make a fire. Under reasonable conditions a person should be able to reliably make fire with five seconds of naked flame. In poor conditions it's great to have a margin of safety by having access to a longer lasting ignition source (like the flare) but you still need to perform your prep properly.
Add a little lip balm and they burn pretty effectively. They're also LOADED with tinder and easy to split up to get a two or more fires out of. Sometimes, you don't need a whole one so why not ration?
