"Deserted" by GPS - once again

Posted by: hikermor

"Deserted" by GPS - once again - 03/25/17 11:27 PM

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article140235723.html

Yet another tale of what happens when you follow (apparently) verbal directions from a GPS. She really made a lot of right decisions once she realized she was in a pickle.

But, never leave the highway for back roads without a good supply (as full a tank as possible), especially in Arizona.
Posted by: TeacherRO

Re: "Deserted" by GPS - once again - 03/28/17 05:04 PM

Yes and prepare for the area you are in. And for the season, climate and your background.
Posted by: dougwalkabout

Re: "Deserted" by GPS - once again - 03/29/17 12:14 AM

Good story. My takeaway is this: despite two errors (not enough fuel and trusting GPS too much), her other layers of preparations saw her through to a positive finish.

As we've seen, it's often a cascade of small errors that add up to tragedy; layers of preparation help to offset the impact of those errors (which all of us make).
Posted by: unimogbert

Re: "Deserted" by GPS - once again - 03/29/17 01:06 PM

Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
Good story. My takeaway is this: despite two errors (not enough fuel and trusting GPS too much), her other layers of preparations saw her through to a positive finish.

As we've seen, it's often a cascade of small errors that add up to tragedy; layers of preparation help to offset the impact of those errors (which all of us make).


The swiss cheese analogy for safety is one that I consider foundational in thinking about safety and preparation and planning. Mistakes will happen. Try to have ways to not let them cause disaster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model
Posted by: Russ

Re: "Deserted" by GPS - once again - 03/29/17 02:18 PM

I had never heard it referred to as the Swiss Cheese Model, but it's a good analogy.

We all probably know people who dislike other people checking their work. Most pilots I know (and I know more than a few) do not fall into that category. Especially on critical items -- it's a good thing to have a second pair of eyes check to ensure that the landing gear really are down and locked before you land.

In the case at hand the stranded UNT student didn't rely solely on her phone, she also left a note on her car. When she made contact by cell phone and couldn't give a good location before losing the signal, rescuers found her car and because of the note they (1) knew they had the right car and (2) knew where she had gone to find that cell phone signal.

BTW, how many times have we seen examples on this site of situations like this one that start by someone simply getting lost -- chalk up another one. Staying found is a big deal when you go long, solo. It's why I carry a GPS independent of my car's navigation as well as map and compass. If I ever get in trouble, I'll send a text to my niece (who texts a lot), saying "9-1-1, (general location, ie., Grand Canyon, South Rim), (precise Lat-Long), send the cavalry", or words to that effect. Failing that, I'll trigger my PLB.
Posted by: KenK

Re: "Deserted" by GPS - once again - 03/29/17 03:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Russ
IStaying found is a big deal when you go long, solo. It's why I carry a GPS independent of my car's navigation as well as map and compass.


It seems that one of the often forgotten to-do's is to capture a waypoint for the parked car or the trail head before you head out ... so you can get yourself unlost. It also give you a chance to check the GPS battery level before heading out.

I recently has my Garmin NUVI GPS direct me down a rarely used gravel road and then across a grassy field while driving through a crazy hilly and rocky state park in southern Illinois. Venturing down the gravel road was fun (4WD truck), but I turned around at the grassy field. Common sense prevailed!
Posted by: hikermor

Re: "Deserted" by GPS - once again - 03/29/17 05:12 PM

Reminds me of a time doing field work on the Channel islands - we parked the car up high and our plan was to descend 300 feet or so to the coast, work along the coast and then climb back to the vehicle - all cross country, no trails involved. The fog was rolling in, with no signs of clearing and I thought "It might be hard to find a white vehicle in the fog", so I took coordinates.

Very glad that I did, because we were less than 50 yards from the car before it became evident in the thick surrounding mist. After that, I almost always took coordinates, especially when parked in a featureless situation.
Posted by: AKSAR

Re: "Deserted" by GPS - once again - 04/11/17 06:18 PM

I made a trip down to Death Valley at the end of March. Since I flew into Las Vegas late in the evening, I planned to pick up a rental vehicle, and spend the night in Vegas before driving to DV. I don't know Vegas well, so I was relying on my smartphone GPS to get me to my lodging. GPS said to turn on a small side street, go 1/4 mile, then turn onto another larger street. The small side street seemed to just lead into some large parking lots. Ultimately it ended at a barricade, preventing making the turn onto the larger street. Apparently the traffic pattern had been changed since the GPS database was compiled.

People need to remember that what we call a "GPS" is really three components. There is the GPS chip itself, which locates one with generally very good accuracy. There is a database of roads, addresses, etc. And there is mapping software that ties the GPS and database together. I think the vast majority of problems come from the database.

These days virtually every nation, state, province, city, county, etc uses location databases together with GIS software to manage their roads. GPS vendors compile all these various databases to use with their GPS products. The problem is that not all of these databases are complete and accurate. Sometimes streets were planned but never completed, but are still in databases. Or, even if the data was originally correct, traffic patterns are changed but databases are not kept up to date (as in my Vegas experience). Various other errors or inconsistencies can get into databases. Considering all the potential problems, I'm surprised that our GPS navigation devices work as well as they do.

The bottom line is that common sense is required. Having a paper map can help, even though paper maps are not always accurate or up to date. (And in many cases, GPS databases were derived from not so good paper maps and charts.) When in town GPS errors usually are just an annoyance, as in my Las Vegas experience. When navigation is more critical, as when I was actually out in Death Valley, it is always a good idea to get some "local knowledge". Try to talk about your proposed route with people who are familiar with the area. As various nautical navigation texts put it: "The prudent navigator should never rely on a single source of information".

In Death Valley, there was one spot I really wanted to visit but skipped. The map and guidebook I had indicated it might be feasible with my vehicle, but after talking to Park Rangers and others who had done the route, I decided I might be pushing my luck with my rental. I'll go there next trip, when I'm driving a more appropriate rig.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: "Deserted" by GPS - once again - 04/11/17 07:23 PM

Your problem was electing to stay in "Lost Wages" in the first place. Can't stand that place. Death Valley isn't that far away....

On one of my more memorable trips to DV, it took longer to retrieve my bags from the terminal that it did to make the flight itself (from Tucson, not Anchorage). That may have been the flight where Wayne Newton graced us with his presence....
Posted by: Russ

Re: "Deserted" by GPS - once again - 04/11/17 07:26 PM

Originally Posted By: AKSAR
...I don't know Vegas well, so I was relying on my smartphone GPS to get me to my lodging. GPS said to turn on a small side street, go 1/4 mile, then turn onto another larger street. The small side street seemed to just lead into some large parking lots. Ultimately it ended at a barricade, preventing making the turn onto the larger street. ...

I've never used my smartphone for navigation because I normally have a dedicated Garmin GPS when I navigate. Is the cellphone set up to navigate by car or as a pedestrian? Some GPS receivers can be optimized for walking, biking or car which changes the routing accordingly. Just wondering...
Posted by: AKSAR

Re: "Deserted" by GPS - once again - 04/11/17 08:26 PM

Originally Posted By: hikermor
Your problem was electing to stay in "Lost Wages" in the first place. Can't stand that place. Death Valley isn't that far away....
Well, as I said, my flight got in late. By the time I got the rental car it was around 2330. I really wasn't keen on doing a long flight, then driving 2-3 hours in the dark, missing all the scenery on the way, then hunting for a campsite in the middle of the night. Also, since I was flying down I was limited in what I could bring with me in checked luggage. TSA doesn't like canisters for my jetboil stove for example. And the shopping options in Furnace Creek and Stovepipe Wells are shall we say....a bit limited? I might add that lodging in LV is quite inexpensive, since they assume you will spend money gambling (which I don't). All of which made spending the night in Vegas and doing a quick shopping trip in the morning on my way out of town seem like the most appropriate plan.

While I don't really care for Vegas, it can be mildly amusing, especially since I don't go there often. And there is definitely some interesting stuff nearby. The last time I was there several years ago we enjoyed some great hiking, scenery, and geology at Red Rocks, just west of town. Looks like great rock climbing there as well, though I'm getting a bit too old and creaky for most of that sort of thing. Many years ago I visited Valley of Fire and the Muddy Mountains, and I hope to get back there too, one of these days.
Posted by: AKSAR

Re: "Deserted" by GPS - once again - 04/11/17 08:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Russ
Originally Posted By: AKSAR
...I don't know Vegas well, so I was relying on my smartphone GPS to get me to my lodging. GPS said to turn on a small side street, go 1/4 mile, then turn onto another larger street. The small side street seemed to just lead into some large parking lots. Ultimately it ended at a barricade, preventing making the turn onto the larger street. ...

I've never used my smartphone for navigation because I normally have a dedicated Garmin GPS when I navigate. Is the cellphone set up to navigate by car or as a pedestrian? Some GPS receivers can be optimized for walking, biking or car which changes the routing accordingly. Just wondering...

Was set up for driving.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: "Deserted" by GPS - once again - 04/11/17 08:54 PM

Years (decades, actually) I attended Park Ranger boot camp at Grand Canyon National Park, about a two month course. On our first field trip, which involved Lake Mead NRA, we spent the night in Las Vegas.

I think that was very deliberate (and lodging was cheap) - the point being that not everybody goes to national parks and the great outdoors, preferring other modes of recreation, even if indoor oriented (not nearly as much apparel was required).

Indeed,there is lots of fine country around LV. Did you by any chance happen to pass by the charcoal kilns in Wildrose Canyon in DV? A regular contributor to this forum directed their repair and stabilization some decades ago - got in a couple of trips up Telescope Peak as well.
Posted by: chaosmagnet

Re: "Deserted" by GPS - once again - 04/12/17 01:03 AM

Potential navigation with GPS include (but are not limited to):
  • As AKSAR says, database issues are undoubtedly the top problem that people face. This is a complex topic and I am not an expert on it.
  • Reception issues, including low signal, reflected signals, and interference.
  • Device software and hardware issues.
  • GPS signal spoofing.


I use GPS constantly and often as my primary navational tool, but the human brain must make the decisions without trusting a single tool so much as to go places one should not.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: "Deserted" by GPS - once again - 04/12/17 02:20 PM

Database issues and outdated maps have been a persistent problem for a long time, well before the age of GPS. On the Channel islands, the current maps were developed in 1943 by the Army Corps of Engineers. The topography, some of the earliest done using aerial photos, is still correct today (there are a few exceptions), but the road network and other cultural features are hopelessly outdated. The maps are still workable, but one has to be aware.

Often the old maps, used together with current aerial photos (three cheers for Google Earth!), will work very well. In working with a map, it is worthwhile to check the date of production and consider than when making crucial route decisions.
Posted by: gonewiththewind

Re: "Deserted" by GPS - once again - 04/12/17 02:49 PM

Reminds me of some military maps in the age before GPS, made from the topography of the treetops in the South American rain forest. The topography of the ground underneath was very different. Made for some interesting navigation.