Rope for GeneralWalking?

"You always need a bit of rope" Sam Gamgee,Lord of the Rings

The thread on ice axes for general walking got me to pondering what items of climbing gear would indeed be useful for "general walking."
Aside from the carabiner used for a keyring, I would say that a "bit of rope," used properly to get over the bumpy parts, would be the most most generally useful.

"used properly" is a key phrase. Used improperly, a rope can mess you up thoroughly, but that is true of many gadgets...

Some of this comes from the time when I worked at Canyon de Chelly, where I soon learned to EDC at least 60 feet of 9mm kernmantle, whether on foot or in a vehicle. We are talking about real climbing rope, not stuff from the hardware store. Never hang from rope from a hardware store.

General skiing -
for towing behind a snowmobile
in case of chairlift evac
short rappels down stream banks

A 50' rope is essential while ice fishing. I keep one in my Otter sled. For this purpose, a lightweight braided nylon rope is sufficient. Might save a life someday, maybe even my own.

As I opened your post, I thought "I wonder what he will say? Surely there is no real use for rope in his flat, lake-infested wilderness..." Just shows how versatile rope can be.

I don't pack rope 'just in case.' Either the full set of climbing gear (helmet, rope harness, etc) or none.

+1. Either we carry proper gear or we avoid needing it.

Proper route planning should determain what you need in advance. Carry a little extra just in case might be needed, but that would be way more then just a rope.

I have also used rope for short canyon hikes to belay my dog up and down exposed sections.

I have used rope for a upstream hand line on below the knee stream crossing to help keep backpackers on their feet on slippery rocks. I wouldn't use it anywhere I wouldn't feel safe crossing without it. It just help keep gear dry. Can also set up a tyrolean for just the gear.

Ice skating we bring an old ice screw too. As well as for an anchor away from shore it also is handy to quickly determine ice depth (it is a long version 9").

"Rope" does not fit with "general walking" for me. It indicates technical or exposed scrambling/climbing. Maybe I'm just getting too old to do that technical stuff much anymore. I have no need for a rope while doing the kind of hiking I do. I carry paracord as part of my emergency gear, but that's not for anticipated technical stuff.

50' of 7mm kermantle in a zip-loc bag, at the bottom of my woods walking day pack. Just-in- case.

I don't carry rope for Day Hiking unless I have a specific plan for using it. I do carry 60ft of 3/8th's inch rope when I go backpacking/camping. If for no other use, I hang my backpack from a high tree limb while I sleep. I also find occasional need to use rope to rappel and or lower or pull gear up the short bluffs we have in the south.

Just a good length of paracord is great to have at all times if carrying a real climbing rope is not practical. Even though you should not rappel with it normally it could be a life saver in many serious situations even if used just as a guiding line (to better control your natural body balance) at tough spots of the trail.

A friend of mine has died several years ago trying to descend a steep but totally manageable slope on the side of the paved trail in the attempt to reach the little girl fell down (she has been rolling down for less than 100 feet away, was effectively stopped by thin bushes down there, and she was eventually rescued by the park rangers several hours later). The guy probably just bented too much forward and lost the balance and then rolled down for more than 300 feet breaking his neck. A piece of paracord, which elderly parents of the girl could just hold for him from the top, would definitely help him to better control the descent and ascent back. Or, perhaps, they could use the paracord loop to drop it down to the girl, so she don't have to rely on that crop of bushes to hold on.

I'm carrying 100' hunk of 5/32" Samson Amsteel in my hydration pack all the time: http://www.lfsmarineoutdoor.com/samson-amsteel-blue-rope-600-ft-spool.html It's much better than paracord and I would trust it even for climbing.

As this photo by eminent Minnesota photographer Craig Blacklock illustrates, Minnesota is not exactly tabletop flat. That said, you are correct in assuming that I know nothing about technical climbing or any of the ropes or gear associated with it.

Primary uses for rope in Minnesota:

-Tying inner tubes together to float down a river with a beer cooler
-Tying dogs together to pull the sled to the tradin' post
-Rope swings over the lake
-Hanging vittles in the trees so bears, coons, and bigfoot can't get 'em
-Pulling stuck smowmobiles out of the snowbank
-Tying up the Lund for a quick break on shore
-Bumper skiing
-Strapping an 8 pointer to the top of the SUV.

There's probably other uses, but I can't think of any.

Nice looking rock indeed! Is that Lake Superior?

I talked to my brother yesterday and he mentioned that he had just driven his truck out to his fishing house. The ice was six feet thick (Lake Bemidji).....

9' of good rope and a locking carabiner and you can make a swiss seat in about a minute.

If you carry a section of rope dedicated for a swiss seat; then you might as well buy a proper harness. The cheapest basic ones can be had for 30 dollars. The cheap ones are usually more universal in size and the lack of padding makes them smaller and lighter (if size and weight is a issue).

Unfortunate indeed for your friend; sorry to hear that. This certainly illustrates why rope can be useful. I would prefer something more substantial than paracord or slippery, nondynamic dyneema

I do indeed carry mason's twine/paracord routinely - contemplated use is for lashing/tying. Depending on the situation and terrain, I might throw in a cordelette (20-30' of 7mm kernmantle) or bump it up to something longer like 30 meters of real rope - http://www.rei.com/product/885246/edelweiss-discover-8mm-x-30m-super-dry-twin-rope - , thus adding about two pounds to the overall weight of my pack.

If real climbing is anticipated, I have my bag all packed and ready to go - 60M of rope, helmet, harness w/slings, biners, and selected goodies - a good ten pounds plus of character building weight. There have been occasions where that has just been a good start.

It all comes down to how much rope for anticipated conditions, but something is way better than nothing.

I tend to carry at least a short length of rope pretty much all the time, even though rarely anything more substantial than paracord.

Paracord or equivalent is very handy all around, but I would never trust it as a climbing rope. It's simply not strong enough and leaves absolutely no room for error if you fall.

IMHO trying to substitute a proper climbing rope with paracord is inviting disaster. Sometimes, something might be worse than nothing. To be of any serious use, a climbing rope must be rated to hold much more than simply one's bodyweight. Maybe this link can explain it a little better:
http://www.alpineexposures.com/pages/faq-climbing-ropes-explained-test-uiaa

Rope stuff that is often misstated regarding single and half ropes and the
impact force etc.

"1. Half ropes likely do not offer significantly lower impact forces than single ropes in high fall-factor falls where one strand is clipped as is common.
2. Rope diameter alone is NOT a good indicator of impact force (some of the “fat” 11mm ropes offer lower impact force than the “skinny” single or half ropes).
3. The “published” impact numbers may not mean much (there’s a wide range between the published and actual in Jim’s data)."


http://willgadd.com/single-and-half-rope-impact-forces-data/

The main difference of stated impact force on the rope is the test weight:
Values required by the Standard:
• Single rope: Impact force lower than 12kN holding the first factor 1.77 fall with a mass of 80kg.
• Double rope: Impact force lower than 8kn holding the first factor 1.77 fall with a mass of 55kg.
• Twin rope: Impact force lower than 12kN holding the first factor 1.77 fall with a mass of 80kg,
(source: http://bealplanet.com/sport/anglais/savoir.php)

This effect can be seen on triple rates ropes like the Beal Joker. Not sure why you would weight less when falling from a double rope using a double rope technique.

The reason I have seen stated is that the load from a double rope will be partially shared by the second rope. This reduces the force on the first strand. The physics is good but idealized. I have always been suspicious that this may not be the case in the real world, but I have no proof.

Respectfully,

Jerry

If the load is shared, you either have a protection/bolt very near to each other or you need to have find a new belayer. Thats my experience anyways.

Never mix twin and double technique, which will share the load, but one might damage the other.

Friends in Britain in the 70's said people climbed double rope on the sharp rocks using a 10mm and a 9mm. At the time the US standard was single rope 11 mm with a tail rope of 9mm for rappels.

Who uses double rope or twin rope technique? Most of my climbing has been in North America and I have never encountered either technique...

Alpinists mostly.

Double rope for
Winding routes to reduce rope drag,
Belaying two followers at the same time on easy routes like Mt Whitney east
face, for speed and reduction of rock fall hazards or for training a new climber on easy terrain when paired with a experienced second.

Twin ropes for
ice climbers-lighter weight when you need full length rappels, less chance of cutting both ropes with axe or crampons.
Sport climbers working a route as twin ropes hold more falls before failure.

In the old james bond movie with the full length climbing fall scenes, I was told stunt man Rick Silvester used a pair of old ropes and tied them together with rubber bands to make it look like one rope so he wouldn't ruin a new rope. Effectively using a twin rope technique with old single ropes.

http://blog.owareusa.com/2014/01/24/castle-peak-on-donner-pass-california/

I know that's what the manuals might say,but I have never seen it in use, particularly in placing leads, including the east face of Whitney, which I have done. Belaying seconds is fairly trivial; I should have been more clear that I was particularly concerned with leading situations.

I never really gave twins and doubles mucht tought, untill I climbed a pretty zig zag route on trad gear. I ended up pulling over half of my protection of the wall during the climb...

And doubles/twins are pretty much mandatory in some longer multipitches with seperate 'abseil pistes'. But i have only climbed in europe, so bolting pratices is dependend on location.

As you would know, on long traversing pitches, having gear placed to protect the third as well as the second can take some thought, either by the second clipping the rope for the third in as he passes or by the leader using some twin or half rope methods and clipping the pieces for both climbers as he leads.

Twin ropes have some limitations on belaying a follower on just one rope (generally only used for skiing, glacier travel, low angle terrain etc.) where the impact force of a fall would be minimal. And as mentioned, don't mix twin and double rope technique in the same pitch. So belaying second and third climbers can take some thought.

Here is a shorter single rope at REI that is a great value for someone who need a tough high strength climbing rope of a shorter length and less weight.

http://www.rei.com/product/884526/maxim-equinox-99mm-x-35m-gym-rope

Just found some more short ropes.

http://www.gearexpress.com/climbing/rope/short-rope.html

If you want short ropes, you can also just go to a climbing store and buy per feet of the rolls they have.

9.9mm is not light nor thin for a single rope. The thinnest single rope rates ropes are 8.7mm. (ofcorse with reduced durability and lower friction in belay devices).

If you use rope with belay devices and carabiners, try to keep the rope clean. Dirty rope wear down equipment fast. Impregnated rope help with keeping rope clean (and drier = lighter).

Stores hère don't carry dynamic rope by the foot. Wish they did. Haven't seen that for years. A shorter 10 mm rope is lighter than a full length one if you need a tougher rope but aren't doing full pitch climbing. Since this was about carrying for general travel a thin rope might be fine and short thin rope very nice, but if you do short rappels or fixed lines on gritty sandstone or sharp shale a thick rope with a thick sheath might also be good. The 9.2 mm shorter pieces on the other links for about $60 looked good for more alpine hiking etc.

Right, you typically must purchase a full length rope, which you then customize by cutting in half. Your buddy is then also equipped. Remember this is the rope you carry when you don't anticipate using a rope. When something technical is anticipated, you get out all the goodies.

For the gear heads, depending on what you want to do with it, there are now a few specialist light weight kit available or coming available from various manufactures:

Edelrid Via Ferreta belay kit: for belaying a second for short sections on a via ferreta.

Mammut Rappel Kit: A combination of 6mm cord, with a tiny figure 8 and small carabiner.

Petzl will be releasing the RAD (Rescue and Descent) System, also using a 6mm cord. (different from the 'PETZL ADVANCED RAD KIT') http://www.thegearcaster.com/2015/01/sneak-peek-climbing-hardware-fall-2015.html