Some new survival items

I ran across this: Live Fire Gear and I got one. I have not had time to test it yet, but it advertises that it is a reusable tinder that lasts for hours. It has a lid that you can close to put it out. I got the sport version (smaller) and it is a very small form factor:
Length: 1.89"
Width: .91"
Height: .35"
Weight: .5 oz

The next one is the Pocket Bellows. It is a telescoping metal tube for directing air into a fire with more accuracy, force, concentration, and at a safer distance. Their page: Pocket bellows

I have tested this and it does help in delivering air to the right place in a fire more efficiently and effectively. I have tried their tinders, and still prefer cotton balls with petroleum jelly, but they do work. Their ferrocerium rod with a magnesium-core flint striking tool does give decent sparks and packs small.

These are items that are small enough to include in a pocket survival kit. I post them to provide information to the forum, and have no connection at all with either company.

Update:

Just after posting this, my meeting was canceled so I ran outside with my collection of fire starting devices and tested the Live Fire Sport.

I began with the smaller and less functional ferrocerium rods and strikers all the way up to a Blast Match. After many tries with all of them, and getting large quantities of sparks directly onto the material of the Live Fire, it would only start with great effort from the Blast Match. However, I can get grass, leaves, and paper to burn with the Blast Match. I put it out and then used a regular cigarette lighter and it took about 4 seconds of flame held on the material for it to light from a direct flame. The Live Fire blew out easily as well, even when fully engulfed in flame.

Needless to say, I will not be including this in any survival kits I build. I will still go with the cotton balls and petroleum jelly, and maybe some grill starters as an enhancer. The grill starters will start directly from a Blast Match (and its little brother the Sparky) without opening the packet.

So the Live Fire is a bust.

I don't understand how tinder can be "reusable".

Lol

I saw that pocket bellows thing and couldn't imagine wanting to carry that extra size and weight for something a drinking straw could probably accomplish. As far as tinder goes cotton balls and Petroleum jelly are difficult to beat. Sometimes there is no better solution for what we are already using. No matter what new gimmick pops up I always find my self automatically gravitate back to the same gear I have carried for years. I have a swiss army knife in my pocket I have carried for 25 years off and on. Every time I try to buy the next best thing to replace it I find I am carrying it again somehow. I have an $85 lighter but end up EDCing a $2 BIC.....Someone is always trying to convince you there is something better than what you already have.

Sure is fun testing new gear though.

Did you rough up the surface of the tinder before hitting with a spark. More surface area may let it take a spark easier....

BOATMAN
John

I tried many different ways of getting the sparks to have better contact. The tinder is coated in some kind of sticky substance that makes any of this difficult. I will say that you can light it, let it burn a little, and then put it out by closing the lid, and then light it again.

As for the pocket bellows, it is small and light, and does not melt when put in the flames. I found this to work very well actually. As with any piece of kit, you have to make the judgment call on whether you have the space and can carry the weight. It is actually well made, with stops so it does not collapse too far. The other items from the company worked, but were no better than other items out there. Their tinder does not last as long as the cotton ball and petroleum jelly, but longer than Tinderquick.

It is worth testing these things, if only so you can tell others why it does not work.

Nice work on testing it, thank you for the report.

Thank you also for the cost expenditure to test this. It saves us money (or cost us)from your testing.Good revue....

BOATMAN
John

I sometimes use an old collapsible car antenna when burning out wooden bowls but that fire bellows looks like it might work a bit better. Thanks for finding this.

How can the "pocket bellows" look like it would work better than a collapsible car antenna? From what I can see, it IS a collapsible car antenna with shorter sections so that it can collapse further.

It is stainless steel, and it has stops so it doesn't collapse too far, making it difficult to open. Other than that, it pretty much is a car antenna.

I just received the data sheet from Live Fire on what their product is made of. It is lengthy, but the gist is that it has a wide variety of chemicals in it, and other substances. The sheet describes many handling hazards, which are not shown on their web site. Among other things it has:

Cellulose
Paraffin waxes and Hydrocarbon waxes
White Mineral Oil, petrolium naphthalene
Kerosine
pine oil
C.I. Acid Yellow 23
Bisphenol A-epichlorohydrin polymer

So maybe Blast can tell us a little about these things, especially when combined.

Another point is that you don't see many cars with collapsible metal antennas anymore. Even portable radios with such antennas are rare now, at least on the street.

Dude, that bellows is a joke. Spent ten days canoeing out west....on two different occasions...and started a fire each night without something like that. Just something else to carry and keep track of.

" I will still go with the cotton balls and petroleum jelly"

thanks Montanero. nothing beats experience and testing :-)

I use lint from the dryer as tinder. it works well. that's why there are always "dryer fires" in peoples' homes :-) I hadn't thought about petroleum jelly - that did not cross my mind. I do use some Jungle Juice (100% DEET insect repellant) and that stuff burns well if you need a backup.

cheers,
Pete

Something to help petroleum jellt cotton ballsis a small square of aluminum foil or the bottom of a soda can under it.while the PJB is burning the petroleum can melt out into the ground.The foil or can bottom prevents that and extends the burn time....

BOATMAN
John

Yes, Thank you for the review. I like the ones a guy on another forum makes, but hard to light with a firesteel. On the other hand they burn hot for a very long time.He's still playing with them however.

Barbakane, as I stated, it does work and does improve your ability to deliver air to get the fire started. That is not a joke. I have started many fires in extremely difficult conditions myself, without such a device. I find this item to be helpful in that it improves the ability to start a fire faster, and it weighs almost nothing. So, each person now knows that there is an item available and have a good idea of how it works, so they may want to see how it works for them. Everyone needs to weigh their own needs against their limitations on what they can carry.

I respect your 2 canoeing experiences, but I have spent 34 years living in the woods,and I have started more fires than I can count. I have attended numerous DOD survival schools, some civilian ones, and I have taught it for years. So I think my assessment is not a joke.

Boatman, you are exactly right. Any good, non-permeable surface under the cotton ball can help it last longer, not to mention not losing heat in the ground.

Minnesota is basically under water right now, and everything is wet. I was car camping a week ago, and was having great difficulty getting a fire started, as all of the available wood was green and had a very high moisture content. I split some of the firewood into thumb-sized kindling and used fatwood sticks as a firestarter. The fatwood burned well, but the firewood merely scorched. I ended up using the top of a 18 gal tote to fan the flames to get the fire started, and several times to revive it.

I mention this because under those conditions, I may not have been able to get a fire going with what I normally carry in my day pack. I think the portable 'bellows' could be very useful when starting a fire under difficult conditions like the ones I mentioned, or in snow. It looks like it could double as a drinking straw too.

I appreciate when forum members test items and report. Thanks Montanero. I'm going to pick one up for my daypack.

First, let me say that I trust Montaneros opinion. Him, AKSAR, Hikermor and some others are serious experts on survival and I listen to them when they post.

That said, I don't think he said your assessment was a joke, but that the device is. Like you I have started many fires in brutal, life threatening situations. But I must agree that it sounds like one one piece of equipment to cary. I've never used the device or even used a straw, but primitive fire starting holds no interest for me. It's a lot of gear and trouble which a Bic and matches with good tinder can replace and do a better, faster and far more efficient job. I have a firesteel I carry, but have only used in my backyard and once in a public campground simply to show off. It will never replace a waterproof matches in my humble opinion.

Getting tinder started with a match/Bic/whatever, and keeping the kindling and fuel burning when all is wet are two different things. I tried to start a fire once (many years back) in very wet conditions and as soon as the gallon of gas burned off everything burned out, rather quickly too. That wasn't a camp fire and nothing critical was hanging on having a fire so failure was no big deal, but it was interesting to watch the fuel put the fire out; that pile of wet wood was never going to sustain a fire on its own.

Anything that helps keep a small fire burning initially is worth trying. Blowing directly puts your face too close to the fire or far enough out that it isn't as effective. A straw or bellows of some type that can put gentle airflow precisely where it's needed is an excellent tool. I'm not sure this collapsible straw will find its way into my kit, but another straw might or I may take a short piece of metal tubing along. Only the part near the flame needs to be metal. A cheap plastic straw that weighs nothing may be all that's required. Gee, those come in water bottles. Time to experiment.

I respect your opinion Russ, but even in the mountains after a downpour I've never used a straw or bellows and have always managed to get a fire going. I still carry petroleum soaked cotton balls which work as well as everyone here says. But now I carry a handful of the cubes I mentioned and I'm confident that they'll work even better and burn hotter and a whole lot longer. JMHO.

It's a matter of efficiency. People have been starting fires for centuries without a straw or bellows. A straw/bellows just makes it easier to keep a small flame burning. No one is saying it can't be done without some means of directing airflow right where it's needed, just that this type of tool makes it easier.

This is a tool you can choose to do without; me, I kinda like it.

I agree. To me it's a gadget and gadgets tend to fail or get lost plus gadgets add weight. There's an old saying that grams add up. I certainly wish you well with it. I remember a survival instructor using the tube from his survival still kit to blow into a fire once. A whole gallon of gas?

Yeah, gas was a lot cheaper back then.

There is wet....and then there is WET. Sometimes starting a fire and keeping it going can be quite challenging, even with the very best possible tinder and fire starters. Anyone who has spent a lot of time in coastal Oregon, Washington, BC, or Alaska will know what I mean. Sometimes even Minnesota, as Byrd_Huntr notes upthread.

This device sounds interesting to me. I think it could be useful for anyone operating in extemely wet areas. I have many times huffed and puffed till I was about to pass out, trying to blow enough air onto just the right spot on a fire to get it going and keep it going.

It is also food for thought for improvising something like this from other gear. For example, my tent comes with a short piece of aluminum tube to repair tent poles. I could probably use that to help direct air into the best spot when fire starting. It would be much shorter and lest handy than this bellows tube, but might still work better than just blowing on the fire.

White gas, Coleman Fuel, or Blazo are sometimes referred to as "Boy Scout Juice".

Yep, my experiment with wet fuel and a gallon of gas was in Washington's Cascade foothills.

After that to get fires going I used a 3' propane torch (dragon something) and a 5# propane bottle. Much more controllable than a gallon of gas, safer too.

Everyone is different, but I always make it a point to try and not light WET wood on fire. The extra few minutes it takes to baton down to the dry stuff is worth it.

No offence, but if you can't keep a fire going with a gallon of gas you may want to consider adding thermite to your day pack.

Montanero,could this be used to to help with a coal burned vessel/cup? I carry a stainless steel straw and a length of surgical tubing. It's purpose is the same as the belows and also for coal burning. I have not done a coal burned vessel.It is just something I want to try....

BOATMAN
John

Except that in some conditions, you can't "baton down to the dry stuff", because there isn't any. There is just slightly less wet stuff.

Looks like another good tool for the toolbox.

Boatman, I don't really know, haven't tried doing that. It does deliver the air in a more precise manner to a smaller area, so it may work for that.

[/quote] Except that in some conditions, you can't "baton down to the dry stuff", because there isn't any. There is just slightly less wet stuff. [/quote]

Good point I suppose. Personally I have found that even wrist sized fallen wood is dry in the center, even after several days rain, BUT
Your neck of the woods is different than mine. A lot of factors at play between different parts of the globe.

I think you would add more Oxygen to a Fire by using a pot lid or container lid or even a jacket. I show that demo all the time in the field a small lid will give a fire 3 or 4 times as much oxygen as blowing on a fire even from a distance. Also your breath has water vapor in it so it is not a great source of oxygen.