SAR reboot after BC man found alive

This strikes me as such an odd story. Hard to even put a proper title on the thread.

Two friends went out picking mushrooms in an area where it should have been pretty difficult to get lost. Things went wrong; SAR was called out and found neither, and finally called off the search.

Then, two weeks later, one of them is found alive. The search is restarted for the second person; most likely a recovery but you never know.

Note that there is a big seasonal business where people go out and pick wild, rare, culinary, gourmand mushrooms in mighty rough country. A good picker can make big bucks, legally. (This to forestall any "magic" notions.)

The current story with SAR leader quotes and links to previous stories:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/brit...rticle14748187/

very odd..two weeks of wandering around and the guy dead,how,what?
i'll be keeping track of this.

I'd be pissed if they called off a search that fast.

"You weren't even looking for me??? WTH, guys? You suck!"

Well, it's hard to say without being on the ground. A full-scale search cannot go on indefinitely.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/brit...rticle14598428/
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Rescue+...7596/story.html

There was an intensive search for a full week that "included multiple search and rescue crews, a helicopter, the RCMP, the Canadian Rangers and around 150 people combing the Lorne Creek area" including "shoulder to shoulder sweeps" without any physical clue that the men had ever been in the area.

As the RCMP spokesperson put it, "The bush up in this country is extremely rugged .... It's some steep terrain, very dense thick bush. The scenarios of what could have happened to these men are numerous. There are a lot of things that can happen to people in the bush in this country."

There's some obvious frustration in the SAR leader's comments. It's reported that these guys had fire at some point and heard helicopters but didn't seem to help SAR crews locate them.

“Let Search and Rescue come and find you,”

Often people are found long after they Stop the Search. We can survive for 40 days many be more depending on conditions if we can find water, build a shelter and fire. If want to get saved; make a route card, then ask whoever you give it to not to stop looking for you for a few Weeks!

Agreed, "stay put" is the best advice for being found quickly. Naturally, this goes against every manly man's first instinct. But if you get turned around and keep moving aimlessly, you might go around the SAR crews and end up in an area that has already been searched. That makes you invisible.

EDIT: But as we discuss often, there are ways to help SAR find you even as you stay put. The smell of a smokey fire in dense bush still travels for miles and can give SAR a vector to focus the search. And if you get to a natural boundary, stay there!

Finally got to the article.

I guess a week seems reasonable. I mean, didn't the Navy just call off a search for sailors after something like 24 hours?

Still, I would hope my family would be out doing something. I hope my wife (and parents) would say something like "he's done a week before in the wilderness. He should still be OK." They know I don't go on a dayhike even w/o 10 E's and water filter or pills.

I have been following this story close as a couple of local SAR were involved in the search at one point.

Today, the second person was found deceased.

Really unfortunate. It sounds like they did stay put for a week -- but they were some distance outside the search area, which I gather has some pretty distinct boundaries (mountain, river, creek, railway line). Pretty spiky country, though, if the maps are any indication.

At the great risk of being an indelicate boor, I have to wonder why the deceased lost his life so quickly. They had fire for the first week, and water (I suspect) is not hard to come by. All sorts of things can gang up: exhaustion, changing weather, hypothermia, perhaps underlying medical conditions. Again I don't mean to be ghoulish, but if there are lessons I can learn I would like to better understand what happened.

Since I have been on SAR searches in California this time of year where people died overnight, even with a full pack of gear, due to bad weather, I can see the possibility in BC.

Wow, that does sound strange. Hard to imagine how the other guy died unless he fell, ate some poisonous shrooms or had some bad medical condition. I guess it would be hard to self-evac the guy once he went down, and if there's nothing more than that it would put you in a hard spot. If the guy is down and can't be moved, do you stay and watch him die or leave him and try to get him help?

clearwater's comment has a lot of wisdom in it.

I checked the current forecast for Terrace BC, and it's essentially "overcast with showers and lows of 4-5 deg.C, humidity 90%". I would guess that's roughly consistent with the last two weeks, based on the location and time of year.

That's a perfect hypothermia zone IMO. You can hardly help getting damp/wet, you can't dry out, and the temp drops to nearly freezing at night. Nasty and insidious. It's actually easier to operate in snow at -10C because everything is dry-ish.

Rather an impossible situation. If you can get help quickly, you might save him, and off you go. But if you don't know that you can bring help with reasonable certainty, then you will most likely stay to offer aid and comfort.

I am deeply thankful that I have never had to make such a call.

I guess I missed that part. I figured since they had a fire for a week they must not have had issues with the cold, but probably they did. Especially when they started moving. But it sounded to my reading that he was bad and getting worse and the other guy stuck around til he died. Was he hypothermic beyond the ability to warm him without medical care? I realize we're guessing based on very little evidence and filling the blanks with our imagination. Without sounding morbid, I would like to know some details, for the reasons already mentioned. It's terrible that someone lost their life, but worse still if nothing is learned from it.

Shades of that father and his two boys that died a ways back from hypothermia. That one still bothers me to this day.

The insidious thing about hypothermia (and other environmental stressors, as well) is that the condition quickly affects brain function, clouding your judgment just when you need it most

Sad situation all around. The rescuers left two people in the field and one died. I'm sure they're second guessing their decisions now, but at the time, in the moment they probably made the right call. At some point with no results you make that call.

People going into the field, even mushroom pickers, have a responsibility to stay found. We've all seen way too many situations like this that started innocently but ended up with peeps getting lost. After that the only way they go is south. The survivor is lucky to have made it out.

Canadian SAR has some issues.


"Conclusion of the fatal accident that took the life of a Montreal woman

On February 21st there were two more sightings of S.O.S. signals in the snow by skiers who alerted the RCMP. However, when the RCMP contacted Kicking Horse Resort they were told they already had done their investigation and there was no evidence supporting missing people. The RCMP did not take further action at that time.

Examiner Note: Why were the S.O.S. signs in the snow continuously ignored? A plea for help should never go unheeded.

On February 23rd the family of Blackburn and Fortin filed a missing person's report when the couple did not return home to LaSalle, Quebec (Montreal).

The following day, February 24th, the search resumed and a helicopter spotted a man waving his arms in the snow. He was rescued, but it was already too late for his wife who had frozen to death.

What went wrong

In B.C. the search and rescue team must first be given the okay to go on the search and rescue mission; they cannot just act on their own. While the search and rescue team waited for the RCMP to give them the okay, Blackburn and his wife were walking around for days in the snow. They built shelters wherever they could. Ian Foss, the manager of the volunteer Golden Search and Rescue team said, "It's pretty incredible that he actually survived," Foss said. "Ten days in the Canadian wilderness in the winter is pretty significant."

The couple did not have any food with them except for two granola bars. They found water to drink, and Blackburn even slipped under the ice into the water and managed to pull himself back up. Furthermore, this part of the country is steep rugged terrain and not a place for an inexperienced individual. Blackburn and his wife were experienced outdoor people and only Blackburn made it in the end. He was taken to the hospital with symptoms of frostbite.

Could his wife have been saved? If only the search was conducted two days sooner she would have been. The RCMP admits making an error in judgment by not launching a full-scale search sooner.

S.O.S. means help, not ignore!"

http://voices.yahoo.com/woman-dies-snow-rcmp-slow-respond-7475042.html

PLBs are so small and inexpensive now. There is no reason not to carry one if you plan on going that far off the grid. Could have been a much different result here.

True enough, but if you can disregard SOS signals in the snow, you can probably rationalize disregarding a PLB signal - they are basically just an electronic SOS.

I recall that we discussed this in detail:
http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=168032&page=1

That is a real inflammatory statement and really does a disservice to the many SAR women and men who every day risk their lives to save others.

Have many ever been on a SAR search? Although I do not belong to any SAR organization, I have stepped forward to help in many searches (including in the last 2 weeks) when a SAR teams puts out a call for experienced outdoors people to assist in searches. Being out in ugly, wet weather, and with being cold, hungry and your body hurting from searching for some very long hours in some of the most difficult terrain imaginable takes it's toll on anybody and that includes the the toughest of the tough. At some point after days of fruitless searching a decision must be made that the search is called off.

Many SAR teams are small and only have so many resources to draw on. Case in point, these 2 mushroom pickers. If you had looked on the map, Terrace BC is almost as remote as it gets. There were some local SAR members that were involved with that search along with others from across BC. These volunteers who were away from their families, their loved ones and missed work for days and searched until they could no more is a testament to their dedication.

Instead of being condemned with such inflammatory statements, they all should be commended for their efforts and any blame game needs to be directed more to the continuously unprepared people that these fine SAR teams are tasked in finding at great personal sacrifice and risk to their own lives.

Canadian SAR has lots of issues: horrible weather, rugged terrain, dense forest, unprepared rescuees, uneducated rescues, etc... and most of it is out of their control and they tackle it anyway. No SAR team is ever going to have a perfect success ratio but come on, these men and woman are amazing and, I'm sorry but most of the time, the fatalities are not their fault. They do a job that most of us wouldn't do and the expectations of them can be unreasonable at times.

The story says that the men were outside the search area, and that there was absolutely no sign of them in the search area after a week of looking. In this case, is it possible that the guy saw the helicopter flying TO and FROM the search site, when they chopped wasn't looking for them and the men didn't or couldn't signal them? Is it possible that they built a shelter and camouflaged themselves from the SAR teams? Is it possible that he built a warming fire, not a visual signal fire, and that the searchers were too far away from smelling it and couldn't see it through the forest? Is it possible that the guys were outside of the area they said they were going to be in? Is it possible that they moved away from their searchers as they tried to find help? Is it possible that they had hypothermia and did the exact opposite of what they should have done?

Watch the Survivorman episode with Les and his friend Bob in Temagami Ontario, or the one where he's in the Sierras, and see for yourself just how difficult it can be even when the rescuee is in good health and knowledgeable, and the weather is good, and give the SAR teams the respect they deserve.

I see that my countryman and countrywoman have summed up my thoughts on the unfortunate post quite eloquently and effectively. Though sorely tempted, I will not respond with my specific thoughts out of respect for our moderators.

I will, however, express a broader regret. Thoughtless comments of the sort we saw detract from the valuable insights that come from the discussions we have in this remarkable community. There are many situations that I believed were worthy of considered discussion, but I did not post because of the inevitable horse... "radish." So it goes, I guess.

When you have an unsuccessful SAR episode, the best and most productive path is a clear and dispassionate analysis, followed by corrections and changes. The details and information necessary for this exercise are rarely, if ever, reported in the media. One can only hope that such an examination is underway and that future incidents will benefit from the insights gained.

My first SAR experience was basically a complete disaster. We all learned from that and got better (much, much better as a matter of fact). Eventually we critiqued each and every operation, successful or not. Sometimes you are just lucky and happy endings are not guaranteed.

Other then the normal post search debriefing, there will be nothing else to come of this. This search was one of the largest in decades in that area of BC and it was not for the lack of trying by the searchers. The SAR teams and over a 100 volunteers searched the area and the one man that was found alive was outside that area.

One last thing to mention, RCMP Constable Angela Rabut made this comment last week.

The growing use of social media as a communications and comment vehicle has added its own complications in adding to speculation about what may have happened, she added.

“When people read things online, somehow [they believe] it’s the truth,” Rabut said.

There is a lot of truth in that statement...

It is important to learn from experiences that do not turn out well.

It seems to me the real problem here was that somehow the SAR teams chose to search an area where the victims were not located. No matter how hard you search such an area, you won't find them.

I have often gone a little off trail when out hiking and it has occurred to me that even if my cell phone worked and I was able to call for help there are some places I could end up where I would be very hard to find, at least quickly.

A few weeks ago a guy offed himself not far from here. Hundreds of volunteers searched the area where he was known to be shortly before he vanished. He did not hide himself or anything. The outdoors is just immensely large and if you do not get a pair of eyes close enough to see the guy, you will miss him. Often you can't see 10 feet in some places. Searching such an area is tedious and very time consuming.

A couple of years ago a guy went missing here. He was gone for several weeks before being found. His car had run off a road and into a patch of woods. He was only about 30 feet off this very busy road that I drive on twice a day. I never saw his car. He was maybe 150 feet from an occupied house. They never noticed him. I don't recall how he got found, but it was random chance. He died of a heart attack IIRC.

Interesting thread (I've been traveling, with limited web access, so I'm just catching up). As I'm getting older, I'm no longer the best person for a "hasty team" (maybe I should join the "old slow guys" team?). Consequently I've been taking some training in SAR management. My comments are from that perspective.

Regarding ending a search without finding the subjects, that is probably the most difficult and painful decision a SAR manager can make. As Teslinhiker points out, resources are often limited, particularly in small and rural communities. In most areas by far the bulk of the search people are volunteers who are taking time off from their families, jobs, and other pursuits. Volunteers don't get paid for searching. How long can one ask people to do this, when there has been no apparent progress in finding the subject? Ask yourself how long you would be willing to continue searching for someone you don't even know?

When all the likely areas have been thoroughly searched without any clues being found, then what does the search manager do? In rugged or thick country there is always the possibility that they are still in the area, but no search team has been lucky enough to spot them. Do you continue to search the same areas repeatedly? Or perhaps you then conclude that they are outside the original search area? If you choose to expand the search area, then how far and in what direction? How big an area can you resonably hope to search with the limited resources available?

Finally, any search manager always has to keep in mind the possibility that the subject is nowhere near at all. They might have intentionally gone missing, and are now sitting on a beach in some foreign country sipping Piña Coladas. These case are thankfully rare, but they do happen.

Regarding ignoring clues, unfortunatelythat does happen sometimes. One of the issues is that those officials who have legal responsibility for SAR (RCMP, County Sheriffs, Alaska State Troopers, etc) generally have many other duties besides SAR. Searches make up only a small part of their responsibilites, and they aren't always well trained in how to handle these events in the early stages. Trained search managers often only get called in after the search is well underway, often for many days. Clues get lost or misinterpreted. Initial searchers (often untrained) sometimes unknowingly obscure or obliterate important clues. For anyone involved in SAR, either as a volunteer or an official, I would highly recomend some of the NASAR courses, such as FUNSAR or Managing the Lost Person Incident.

The bottom line is that we do the best we can with the resources we have available. Luck, both good and bad, always plays a part.

Some searches never end, they just fade away, as final leads and hypotheses are checked, sometimes long after the intensive phase has terminated. One such for me was the search for Paul Fugate, summarized here - http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2009/03/where-world-paul-fugate. We were following up new leads for months and years afterward. I would respond today if there were a new angle...

Our unit even took specialized mine rescue training in order to search the likely mine workings near Chiricahua National Monument. We learned, for instance, that a large signal mirror (repurposed medicine cabinet mirror) is a dandy tool for illuminating the dark corners of vertical mine shafts. We were interested in mine shafts since one likely scenario involved drug traffickers dumping his body in a mine. Or he may have skipped to Mexico. To this day,no one knows, although I think, looking at the available evidence, that he was offed by druggies.

Another such was Donald Lee Curtis, whose disappearance w in 1969 was reported by his hiking companion. They had separated on a trip in the Santa Catalina Mountains, and his companion, wildly hallucinatory, had no idea of where they had been. Thus the search area was the entire range, which is extensive and somewhat bumpy. Again,the operation lasted weeks and never really ended, since the secondary objective for the many succeeding searches in the range years later was Mr.Curtis, or what might have been left of him.

The confounding factor in this operation was that Curtis was due for induction in about two weeks after the date on which he disappeared. I don't believe this case has ever been resolved either.

When the initial hasty search doesn't turn up the victim, managers can employ multiple efforts. If a line search doesn't give a result, send in the dogs. Do a helicopter overflight. If those efforts are negative, expand the search area. Generally, if a search persisted beyond an initial 24 hour period, a quiet background check started. Did the subject have any problems, etc? Any withdrawals from bank accounts? You never know for sure...

AKSAR, don't let the accumulation of wisdom and experience keep you out of the field. It's not all speed and vigor. On several occasions, a stationary observer spotted our victim - little or no physical effort was involved. The kind of care required in doing an intensive sweep should be done at a slow, sedate pace - a lot like searching for archaeological material.

I have always been intrigued by the variety of talents and abilities that can contribute to SAR. Yes you do need raw physical power, but there are many many ways to contribute to a successful outcome.

"Regarding ignoring clues, unfortunatelythat does happen sometimes. One of the issues is that those officials who have legal responsibility for SAR (RCMP, County Sheriffs, Alaska State Troopers, etc) generally have many other duties besides SAR. "


I would be very unhappy if a SAR was not started when two SOS's were spotted and ignored and a family member or friend died.

RCMP messed up.

Sorry if some are thin skinned.

Thanks to everyone for making this an amazing thread! It's very often those ones that go off on a tangent that offer the most insight. I've learned a lot of how searches work, and I'd like to know more. Last year I read an article about the psychology of searching; how the mind of the lost person works. I learned about gravity traps and the way you think when you're lost. Now, I can see how flipping the script would be useful if I ever get lost. Knowing not only how to signal but what the SAR guys are looking for and how they'll be searching for me, that could save a life.

Who'd have thunk I'd be contemplating the best way to be lost!

Clearwater,
No one is denying that "RCMP messed up". SAR is done by human beings, and mistakes happen. Get used to it. Everyone involved does their best to learn from these mistakes to try to make sure that it doesn't happen again.

At the bottom of the article you linked, there was a link to an article with somewhat more information. See RCMP admit 'error' for not launching SOS search Here are some quotes from that (emphasis is mine):

So apparently RCMP was not even contacted when the first SOS was spotted on Feb 17. The RCMP wasn't contacted until a week after the couple went missing, when the second SOS was spotted on Feb 21. When RCMP investigated, they were told by the resort that the SOS had already been checked out. Was it really just RCMP who messed up? How about the resort? Or the couple themselves?

Sorry if you don't understand the reality of SAR.

People screw up all the time. It is part of being human.

The couple's car was in the resort's parking garage. Talk about a screaming red flag. But that horse was beaten in another thread.

That doesn't seem to be the case with the mushroom pickers though. Two guys who got lost and then became even "loster". The lostee's have a responsibility to assist in being found. I don't see that they assisted to any significant degree while the search was ongoing. Did I miss something?

Blame, point the finger at whomever you want. The bottom line is this; Anytime any unprepared person goes missing, had they been equipped with a PLB or SPOT and were properly prepared for the expected weather, terrain etc, the outcome would be much different.

This additional, more comprehensive information is most revealing. Looks like there is plenty of room for improved procedures.....

I would imagine that on most days during the season at a large resort there are quite a few cars in the parking garage?

Remember, the resort did their search of the lodge area's parking on Feb 17 when the SOS was spotted (and only 2 days after they skied off area). However, their family did not file a missing person report until Feb 23. Also, they had not yet checked in to a hotel at the resort. So when the resort did their check on Feb 17 they really had no certain way to tie a car left in the garage to an SOS spotted in the snow.

There are lots of reason people might leave a car overnight in a ski resort parking garage. (Folks who drank too much apres ski and decide to take a cab back to their hotel? People who hooked up with a member of the opposite sex and ride back with the other person?) A car left for a day or too in a parking garage is certainly a clue, but I don't think that was quite as much of a "screaming red flag" as you assume.

AKSAR is correct. This whole situation received extensive media coverage here. The car in the garage part of the story turned out not be a a "screaming red flag" as that same parking garage had many cars parked there for days on end...

Every hotel I've checked into wanted the lic plate # of the car I'm driving, but for that to play a role they would have needed to check all the parking lots and actually determine if they had cars that shouldn't be there. From the link above:emphasis is mine -- The article emphasized that the resort searched the resort parking lots for abandoned vehicles; what criteria did they use to determine that a car was abandoned? It was a red flag, but they had to see it first. You may be right though, I wasn't there.

Getting back to this thread's original story. A postscript of the last day of the search. One of the volunteers who helped ferry searchers across the Skeena River lost his truck and boat in the river. Judging by the comments on the news website, it nearly could of been much worse.

Is there any insight as to why, apparently, a team was not dispatched to directly investigate the SOS signal? Do they problems with bogus signals, for instance?

Yes, except that they had not yet checked into a hotel in Kicking Horse. See upthread: Apparently they drove to Kicking Horse from Alberta, parked their car, went directly to the hill and bought a lift ticket, went skiing, went out of bounds, and got lost. Until the family filed a missing person report (several days later) the resort had no licence plate number to look for, and no other way of even knowing who might be missing, let alone connecting the car to the SOS.

I've not been to Kicking Horse, but if it is anything like other big ski resorts that I have been to then on a good day in February there are many thousands of people at the resort, both skiers and non skiers. There are a similar number of cars, in mulitple parking areas. Many hotels, condos, hostels, etc. Dozens of bars, on and off the slopes. People chip in and share rooms, so even the hotels and condos don't always know everyone who is staying there, but only the one who rented the room. There will even be some ski bums camping (illegally) in their cars in the parking lot. People drink too much and leave cars in the lot. Cars have dead batteries and people leave them until they can get a jump. After a big snow dump the resorts often have a tough time just plowing the lots before the next morning because of cars left parked there overnight.

Point is that there was a car in one of their parking lots that didn't belong. If it did belong then there would have been no red flag. Since they hadn't checked in, that car should not have been there.

You nailed it. To me that is the central question. Why didn't the guides who first spotted the SOS just stop to investigate?

You apparently have not spent much time at ski resorts. The resort has no direct way of knowing who or what car "belongs" there. You can drive to the resort, park your car, buy a lift ticket (cash or credit card), get on the lift and go skiing. Which is apparently what this couple did. Unless you buy as season pass, the resort has no name or other id associated with a lift ticket. Nor do they have any direct way to tell which car in the lot belongs to which skier.

Lots of people visit ski areas and don't ski at all. They drive up, park, go to the bars and resturants, and drive off when they are done eating or drinking. Again, no direct way to tell who's car "belongs".

It is also worth noting that (in the US at least) a downhill resort has no responsibility for off area search and rescue. Even if a resort has gates to let you ski off area, once you go throught the gate you are responsible for your own safety. That being said, almost all areas will try to help skiers who get into trouble off area, but they are not required to do so.

My bad, I don't do ski resorts; I don't do resorts at all.

Why did the resort personnel bother checking the parking lots at all? In the context of this "search", that seems to be a false negative. If a search means nothing, and you report the results as if they are significant and mean something, you may stop people from searching who should. In this case the "search of the resort parking lots for abandoned vehicles turned up nothing", which may have contributed to the SOS in the snow being disregarded.

That said, I agree that people in general need to take more responsibility for their own well being, staying found. But in this litigious society folks are always looking for a large group and deep pocket to blame. I don't see that ending any time soon.

Just realized that the incident at Kicking Horse Mountain Resort occurred almost 5 years ago now.

I am bowing out of any further discussion as nothing we say here will change that history and does not contribute to the current OP's post.

Unless bogus SOS signals are a significant problem, they had a glaring red flag with lights, bells, & whistles. At the very least, get a couple of ski patrol teams to check the area where the SOS was found and then send a couple of seasonal interns to check the parking lot. Being able to link a car with a missing person report only gains you more detailed information (number, name, description, etc.) If bogus signals are a problem, start with charges of reporting false information to rescue personnel if you can track down who caused it. Maybe deferred prosecution in some cases but enough to get it through that it is no joking matter (give the judge a wide latitude between min. & max).

Not sure why. If a car had obviously been left there for many days (for example buried under several snow falls) that might have aroused some suspicion. It sounds like they mostly just checked to see if any hotels had missing guests, and if so were those guests cars were left in the lot.

As hikermor said, why didn't the first people who saw the SOS just stop to check it out? Or the resort just have someone go to the location to check? That would be the obvious thing to do. To me that is the real question. I think Kicking Horse has a number of off area guiding operations (guided tours, heli skiing and snow cat skiing). Generally those outfits work closely with the resort. They might have just asked one to stop by the location where the SOS was reported.

As hikermor also said, there is plenty of blame to go around. Not the least of which goes to the couple themselves. Going out on a back country ski tour, without telling anyone where you a headed or when you expect to be back, is not smart. Doing that in an area which you are not familiar with is even less smart.