Air Crash Survival

The recent crash of the Asiana Airlines plane in San Francisco, with the remarkable survival of all but two passengers and crew reminds us that aircraft crash landings are survivable.

I think the following excellent link may have been posted in the past, but it seems timely to post it again:
How to Survive a Plane Crash

Key points are:
1. When you board, look around and note where the emergency exits nearest your seat are. Have a Plan A and a Plan B to exit.
2. Carefully read the safety card. In particular note information about exits and how to operate them.
3. Fasten you seatbelt very snugly, and know how to open it quickly. Know the brace position.
4. Be particularly alert during takeoffs and landings.
5. Dress for success. Good shoes, long pants and sleeves, avoid synthetics.
6. In a crash get out fast! Don't stop for anything until you are well clear of the aircraft.

Related:

Asiana Passengers Almost Burned To Death Waiting For Box Cutters

"...police officers on the ground threw utility knives up to crew members so they could cut the seat belts of those who remained trapped as rescue crews removed the injured.

Does anyone know if the little Res-Q-Me tool gets through TSA?

Re: taking rescue knives through TSA checkpoints, according to reported experiences, enforcement of whatever rules that may be in place is inconsistent.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4194205

Use EMT shears instead. They will go through security no problem, completely legal. A small survival saw is also legal.

Haven't flown since beofre 9/11...does anyone know if a ResQMe tool can go thru security...they are designed to cut seatbelts, they are small and EDC for me.

I have not tried, but it looks as if you should have no issues with TSA. You can check their web site. Since it is not a sharp and pointy device, the blade is covered, it should be OK.

That won't stop a TSA agent from taking it away from you if they decide to do so. Unfortunately, the decisions made at checkpoints are not always consistent.

Learn how to open your seat belt quickly, then there should be relatively few instances when you would need to cut it. Generally on commecial airliners you lift the latch (rather than push a button as in autos).

When I get on an aircraft (any aircraft whether a big airliner or a small bush plane or helo) I make it a point to consider how I would get out in an emergency (where the exits are and how to operate them). I also take a second to practice opening my seat belt (or harness in a bush aircraft). I pull belt/harness quite snug for takeoff and landing. Learn how to assume a good brace position.

The keys to staying alive are to survive the initial impact, and then to get the f*** out fast!

EDIT: More on why you should assume the crash position if you have any warning:
Crash Survivors Show Pattern of Spine Injuries

I carry EMT shears and a small survival saw on a regular basis through TSA security in a wide variety of airports. I have never had a single question about them.

Ask for the seat/s next to the emergency exit. Read the instructions for opening the door. Disregard the instruction to place the door on your seat once opened - chuck it out the hole to one side.

Oh yeah, you get some extra leg room too.

Only ask for exit row seating if you know you can manipulate the door and exit the aircraft with no delay. It pains me to see people sitting in that row who are going to cause a bottleneck at the door if it is needed.

Maybe the SAR folks on this forum can help me out here. I carry a rescue tool, but I am not sure of the circumstances under which I'd need to cut the belt. When can I expect the lock opening mechanism to fail?

This link was posted earlier:

http://www.thetruthaboutknives.com/2013/...or-box-cutters/

I read the linked article the first time it was posted. My question was probably unclear, so let me try again: what happens in a crash that would prevent the belt release mechanism from working? It seems that unless the lock was damaged, it should still work.

Given the simple and robust construction of aircraft seat belt buckles it seems highly unlikely that it would jam and that you would need to cut your own belt. Probably not impossible, but highly unlikely.

The largest body of relevant experience is probably from auto wrecks. Awhile back ETS had a thread entitled Cutting seat belts-How often?. The responses were interesting. You can read through it at your leisure, but there were a number of responses from ETS members who had decades of experience as EMS providers handling car wrecks. At least one had never had to cut a seat belt. Some had cut one or two in their career. Generally they only had to cut belts when the nature of the wreck blocked access to the buckle, or when undischarged air bags made it dangerous to reach over the victim to the buckle.

My take away is that needing to cut a belt in an aircraft crash is most likely when you are trying to free someone else, when wreckage makes it difficult to access to the buckle on their seatbelt. If wreckage makes it difficult to reach your own seat belt buckle at your waist, you'll probably have trouble getting free without help even if you could manage to cut the belt. Or to put it another way, if you can't even reach your own buckle, what makes you think you can reach your EMT Shears and cut your belt?

That's why my personal focus is on knowing how to unbuckle my own belt instantly without needing to think about it, and on quickly reaching and opening an exit. I'm not suggesting EMT shears (or a knife if TSA would allow it) wouldn't be good to have for other reasons, but it is very unlikely I will need it to escape my own seat belt.

It's also very unlikely you'll need to escape a plane. This entire site is a discussion of unlikely scenarios.

The issue of being able to get to shears is solved by wearing them around your neck on the plane. I've flown with other essential survival supplies around my neck.

The thought of burning alive freaks me out enough to wear, around my neck, something that can cut a belt. A small man bag works too. My Maxpedition Remora swings around to rest comfortably on my lower chest.

Yes but some unlikely scenarios are even more unlikely than others. Only a tiny percentage of us will ever be in a plane crash. And only a tiny percentage of that already tiny group will ever need to cut their seat belt.

The beauty of this site is that we can each choose which of the infinite number of highly unlikely scenarios we wish to be prepared for. Peace of mind is worth a lot. If the risk of not being able to get out of your seat belt freaks you out, then by all means carry your shears close at hand.

Thanks, guys. If I ever survive an air crash, I'll be sure to report my experience here.

You would think that with the fact that autos have had pushbutton belt latches for better than 20 years and that the population (that uses seatbelts) has the muscle memory for those kinds of latches that the aircraft certification agencies would change the belt latches on planes.

The mechanism being different from what everyone knows is kind of like having to turn the handle on the emergency exit clockwise to make it unlatch- very unnatural when reflex action is better.

The current airplane seatbelt latches are just like the ones my father installed in our cars in the 1960's - when cars didn't come with seatbelts.

That's an interesting point about the emergency latch. I'm not sure if it's universally true, but it's interesting nonetheless. Clockwise is more natural for me personally, and I'm right handed. I feel like I would want to scew the latch out of the plane (like pushing out a car door), not into the plane. So, clockwise feels right to me.

Anyway, I'd prefer if the emergency door is slightly UNNATURAL if that un-naturalness prevents just one accidental, or even intentional, opening.

The Asiana 214 crash does raise some troubling issues as far as maximizing your own chance of surviving a plane crash are concerned.

None of the passengers had any warning prior to the crash so one minute you're chatting with the person next to you and the next minute your whole upper body is slamming into the seat in front of you at a high rate of speed. After landing, the pilots initially announced that people should remain in their seats so the eventual evacuation was delayed further. Three of the cabin crew were ejected out the rear, presumably leaving the passengers in the rear section without any crew to direct them. Two of the escape slides deployed into the cabin, and not outward, thus blocking those exits and immobilizing two more crewmembers. The 911 tapes seem to indicate that ambulances did not arrive for a signficant length of time (callers say "20 minutes" but not sure if their sense of time can be trusted), but it's not clear if any of the firefighters were tending to the injured or perhaps just to the most seriously injured because there were so many injured.

Not sure how much smoke was an issue before everyone was evacuated.

You raise several good points Arney.

Regarding the lack of warning, I'm not sure what could be done about that. It appears the pilots thought they could manage the landing, or else do a go around, until seconds before impact. The message there (for me at least) is that takeoffs and landings are always critical times. I try to stay alert and make sure my belt is extra tight. I'm also not sure what could have been done differently regarding the ejected crew. The tail section was ripped off the plane, and apparently both of the fatalities were sitting in that section. Also I believe at least one of the crew in that section was severly injured.

The two aspects I find most troubling are the pilots delaying the evacuation and the escape slides inflating inside. The pilots knew they had just had a severe crash and everything I've ever heard about crashes is to get out as fast as possible. I think that was clearly an error on the pilots part, and I hope pilots in the future will take a lesson from that. Regarding the slides inflating inside, one account I read indicated that the NTSB crash examiners plan to investigate that. We may eventually see some improvements in escape slides as a result.

I'm sure seconds seemed like minutes and minutes seemed like hours to the people laying on the runway. One account I read said that the ambulances were sent to a nearby staging point and then dispatched to patients as the Fire/EMS folks triaged patients and called for transport. This would all be appropriate under ICS. All accounts I've read indicate the the hospitals thought the triage was handled extremely well. I've never been involved in a real Mass Casualty Incident, but I have had some MCI training. A MCI will by its very nature tend to initially be chaotic and overwhelm emergency responders. The key is to quickly separate the dead, from the severly injured, from the walking wounded. Meanwhile mobilize more resources and focus them first on those for whom you can do the most good. Given that only two people died, the responders clearly did some things right.

I think we should also look at the positive aspects. An airliner with 307 people crashed, had its tail ripped off, and burned. Yet only 2 died. Of the 305 survivers I think about 180 went to the hospital, but most of those have already been released. I think there were about 30 with severe injuries. The death toll could easily have been much more severe. Clearly a lot of things worked well.

The death toll has now risen to three; your point remains valid.

I don't fly very often, and haven't for a few years, but when I do I ask for the seat next to the emergency exit and pay attention to all the safety instructions. Read the book and pay attention to the presentation.

A friend asked me once if I did that because I was afraid, and I said "No. It's because I want someone who's responsible and paid attention to be in charge of this, not someone who's not going to have a clue and panics." I don't rely on someone else to do it. I've never thought of it before, but interestingly, I've never challenged or been challenged for the responsibility of the seat.

Good idea, Jacquie! Maybe I'll start taking exit row seats, too -- as ireckon likes to remind us, in the unlikely event there is a crash, and in the even more unlikely event that I survive the crash...

Another thing we can learn from the crash is: don't get covered up by foam. There is apparently a possibility that the fire trucks killed two passengers who were covered up by foam. It's unclear whether they were still alive when the truck ran over them.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/12/us/asiana-airlines-crash/

Let's keep the victims in our thoughts.

For those interested in incident response, a number of articles are appearing about the Asiana crash. I think it is valuable for everyone to understand how agencies respond to this sort of thing.

Incident Commander Talks about 777 Response, Ops

The risk is that the fuel tanks could explode and engulf rescue vehicles parked too close. Also, having fire trucks and ambulances running around randomly greatly increases the risk of collisions and running over someone, which apparently happened in one case. The rule in ICS is that first on scene takes command until relieved. As the incident reponse expands, the initial Incident Commander may be relieved by a more qualified IC. The relief is done in a formal manner and communicated. In ICS, everyone should always know who reports to them and who they in turn report to.

911 calls highlight emergency response challenges in Asiana crash

Yeah, folks have come to expect first responders to rush in with no regard for scene safety. I'll do the best job I can but I am not going to needlessly get killed or get my partners killed because patients insist that I sacrifice my life on demand.

I was reminded recently that I have flown over 500 flights in just about 20 years, more than the average flyer. And I'm not a happy flyer really, although by far I have far more confidence in air crews than I have fears that they may mess up. I can recall a handful of flights when we came in too slow and one where we were too low to land, the pilots had the sense to abort and go about for another landing. I distinctly remember I was in a window seat and knew we were off flight path and descending too rapidly like a sinking elevator, I had a growing panic and almost yelled to my row mates to brace for impact, and the sense of relief I felt when the pilot applied power and aborted. I think veteran pilots deadheading in passenger cabins and passengers have a decent sense of this when it happens, definitely - but in my experience its rare to occur. Far more frequent have been weather emergencies, which can be scary as hell. I don't like turbulence, having sat through some really bad southern and Midwestern flights, one of which caused a spinal injury to a Delta attendant. Then there are mechanicals, like a dead engine, including two experiences in foreign aircraft i will not recount - I did sing my death song both times expecting to bite it. I've never had to evacuate under duress but have read the safety card probably on 95% of flights, you never know. One of my morbid curiosities has been reviewing aircraft crash investigations and those with fatalities are grisly and consistently random in their physical effects on passengers. I say keep your EMT shears. For about 5 years you couldn't pry me from the exit aisle now when I fly coach I tend to sit about 4-5 rows behind. Even then I'm just playing the lottery and hoping for a relatively low speed crash like Asiana. If you crash the odds of having a really great pilot at the stick are pretty good, its fair to have faith in your pilot most flights. There are just no really great options to crash land jets at speed. Those passengers were lucky as hell to survive.

Sounds like lot of vivid memories but on the whole its been smooth air - thousands of hours of boredom punctuated by moments of sudden terror, like on a runaway roller coaster. Nothing you can do.

People aren't meant to fly otherwise they'd have wings, and feathers coming out of their assholes. A wise old TWA pilot told me that...

The stats claim you are safer flying than traveling the same distance by other forms of transportation.Life is a gamble.

It's quite amazing now to consider that in the 40's, 50's and early 60's the continuous loss of life that was considered normal in the business. But things can never be perfect.

A friend in the FAA who says that he believes his son will probably fly on airliners that have no pilot. The backup for the autpilot will be a flight attendant who has some simulator time to be able to land the plane if needed(maybe).

Considering that pilot error really is a major contributor to the remaining accident rate, it's a logical step to remove the pilot from the cockpit and substitute Windows Autopilot 1.0 instead. (and we all know just how error-free software is.... right?)

But you won't find ME on one of those flights!

This is something I've only heard so I can't verify it.

The safest means of transportation is a submarine. Excluding times of war, there have been fewer deaths (if there are statistics I have to assume a number of deaths per 1,000 travelers) involving a submarine than with any other means of transportation.

Jeanette Isabelle

It does not matter if the plane is flown my a Macintosh. Electronic devices fail. There needs to be an experienced pilot who can turn the computer off and fly the plane.

Jeanette Isabelle

Stats of safety do not calm my nerves. When I'm driving, I feel like I have a fair amount of control over my safety. I can be extra attentive, check my tire pressure, leave space in front of me, choose not to ride a motorcycle, etc. In a plane, ship, train, or a submarine, I have to completely relinquish my control to others. If something dangerous starts to happen, I have little or no control over my fate. I can't steer into the skid or whatever. That is what is troublesome. By the way, I'm sure if submarine travels were as congested as the I-5 in L.A., the safety stats there would plummet.

IMO the problem at the core of the Asiana crash is that the pilots weren't doing their job(s) watching the automatic systems to make sure they were functioning correctly. At least two of the pilots should have been watching as the airspeed dropped below the 157 kt target speed and immediately asked themselves "WTH, why?" That the auto-throttle wasn't properly engaged or working correctly should have been fixed before the plane slowed to 150kts, not when the stall warning started shaking the pedals.

Airspeed/Vertical speed (I assume the 777 has a VSI)/Altitude -- that the aircraft became too low and too slow tells me there was massive complacence or incompetence in the cockpit -- probably a bit of both. You can call that crew coordination or whatever term the NTSB prefers, but all this talk about blaming automatic systems is BS; the pilots' primary job in these large aircraft is to ensure those systems are working and to watch as the airspeed is what it should be and the altitude is safe. If the auto-throttle wasn't working the flight crew should have gone to manual and maintained airspeed the old fashioned way. Otherwise Jeanette's Mac may as well occupy those seats which have a really good view of the crash site.

While certainly luck always plays a role, it is also true that your odds of surviving a crash have been getting much better over the years. This is due to mandated changes in aircraft design to improve crash survivability.

Asiana crash: Improved technology, standards, and training likely saved lives
Also remember the "Miracle on the Hudson" crash, where everyone survived without serious injury.

Other articles have discussed how much stronger the fuselage is in today's aircraft.

Note that even with the delay in ordering evacuation, all the passengers were able to get out before the aircraft burned.

Some crashes are not survivable, for example if your plane flys straight into cumulo granite clouds, everyone will die instantly. However, the vast majority of crashes are during take off and landing. Better aircraft design, together with your own awareness of how to survive, greatly improve your odds over what they were even 10 years ago.

Sometimes human error can lead to catastrophic consequences when errors compound, sometimes certain events are just doomed to failure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZR4Em9JJDw

Have you seen 'Das Boot'?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iMWb8nEOG4

This is kind of a silly example because the vast majority of subs ever built weren't really personnel transportation systems. They are weapons delivery systems which require humans to operate them.

And I suspect that non-catastrophic accident data is very hard to come by.

For instance, I nearly collided with a sailboat while coming to periscope depth one night. But there was no contact between vessels and no newspaper reported the near-miss so no one but me (the guy looking thru the periscope)had any reason to be afraid.

And the peacetime record is not zero. Collisions have killed some people and sank some smaller ships.....

(I was a Submariner)

I know there have been peace time fatal submarine accidents. As I said, this is something I heard.

Jeanette Isabelle

Ho Li Kao! Tu Dam Funi!

They forgot to name the flight safety officer: Ka Plu Yi

This is in truly poor taste. People died. Some got run over by rescue trucks. Some of the crew were ejected from the plane when the tail broke off. Now you make fun of their national origin? This sort of joke is not just juvenile. It is effectively racist.

I call on the moderators to erase these posts.

I agree Bingley.

The joke is on the idiot media people who dutifully read the obviously wrong names on air. I'm laughing at the TV station talking heads, not any people on the airplane. Thought that would be plain, but apparently No Dam Wei.

Relax, quit being so PC, and build some thicker skin.

I was of the impression that this is a safe forum.

Jeanette Isabelle

Sorry, I would have to agree with Bingley and AKSAR on this. It's just poor taste, and well below the usual level of discussion on ETS.

I think this is a serious abuse of statistics. There are too few accidents to make meaningful analysis. I also wonder if that claim takes into account the Russian Navy experience.

Large commercial jets are still safest. Getting to and from the airport is the riskiest part of a trip.


Electronic devices can be made reliable the same way as flight crews: redundancy.

The Space Shuttle was at best 1970s era technology, yet came close to fully electronic flight control. No part of ascent was under human control, and the only critical/challenging part of descent done by humans was rotating the nose gear onto the runway.

The switch to drones in military aviation will force the issue by drying up the supply of qualified pilots to civilian airlines. Once routine military cargo flights begin using drones there simply won't be enough human pilots any more.

Bigley:

My thought on this is that after a plane crash most people are disoriented, panicked. this level of chaos and stress can make a person try a seat belt (remember it isn't like a car seat belt) and when it doesn't instantly release or has some resistance they panic and think that it won't open.

Secondly keep in mind that "Seat belt maintenance" isn't normally a high priority, I mean when was the last time you brought your car in and told them to service the seat belts? It is possible that the force of the impact can notch the retaining metal and thus make it, "locked up."

Weather by rescue hook, box cutter, or opening the seat belt, I don't thing that the method matters, just that the people are OUT of there seats and are in a safe location. It would be my hope that no-one would try to salvage the seat belts from an accident like that.

Just my thoughts.

It has been confirmed that one of the fatalities was due to a rescue vehicle:

http://www.kcra.com/news/money/travel/asiana-victim/-/11797110/21062156/-/9g181o/-/index.html

This morning I was reading a link about powerful photographs of 2013. It has a bird's eye view of the Asiana crash site and I was struck at how massively burned-out the passenger cabin was:



I recall reading that fire & smoke in a crashed plane spreads very fast. Plan accordingly.

Prayers out for the people on that plane, and their families.

Here's an update from Popular Mechanics on the crash. The photo of the cabin interior is instructive.